The broken FFXIV Holy trinity

Just decrease the ilvl/stat jumps so instead of +20ilvl every major patch it's +2ilvl

Problem with overgearing it and speed runs leads to folks thinking that's the norm and the instant it gets harder again, folks bitch the can't finish the dungeon in 10 minutes again.

When I started here I was so happy to see dungeons were aoe festivals like in wow but then I hit level cap...

God forbid you can't speed run(not enough gear) folks ragequit.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Problem with overgearing it and speed runs leads to folks thinking that's the norm and the instant it gets harder again, folks bitch the can't finish the dungeon in 10 minutes again.

When I started here I was so happy to see dungeons were aoe festivals like in wow but then I hit level cap...

God forbid you can't speed run(not enough gear) folks ragequit.

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One thing that perpetuates this is that SE constantly releases dungeons/trials that the majority of the population already over-gears. Ex. Allowing everyone to gear up with i120 gear and then releasing content that builds up to i120 is a redundant system. It is one thing to lay down groundwork and build up. But SE isn't building from the ground up, they are building from the top down.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

The holy trinity is broken, yes, but the symptoms OP described are not the ones I see as the signs of that. Where I see the holy trinity being broken is healers being expected to DPS, tanks being expected to DPS, DPS being expected to tank and raise....... It's like we're just leaving the "roles" behind altogether.

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How is this broken? Tanks DPS to generate more enmity. In fact, they have specific DPS abilities that have an added effect of increasing enmity. Healers who have the free time to DPS should, as most dungeons do not require the healer to constantly be on their toes spamming cure/buff spells, and the healer dps'ing is also a sign of a good player and prevents the healer from standing around with their thumb up their butt not doing anything while they wait for the mobs/boss to finally do enough damage to the tank or any dps to actually warrant them using a cure/buff spell. A good DPS will grab hate and hold hate for as long as possible in the event that the tank is ko'd to prevent mobs from gang raping the healer(s) which would cause a wipe and waste of people's time. Also, if a DPS does have Raise, why should they not use Raise in the event that it is necessary due to the healer being busy keeping the rest of the party alive? This is especially a nonissue with Smn as all it takes is a simple use of Swiftcast + Raise which takes all of roughly 5 seconds or less. I don't see how this is an issue, nor do I see how any of these examples in any way indicate that the "holy trinity" is broken whatsoever. The examples you've provided are all actual responsibilities of the players playing those roles. While I do understand that it can be acceptable for a healer to not DPS at all, if they don't feel comfortable doing so, it seems that the vast majority of people do agree that a healer dps'ing during healing/buffing downtime is a sign of a good player and actually something that the healer should be doing to play their job 100% efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Mercuito

in FFXI and in a lot of other game even with the best gear in the game you can't just take on 15 mobs and aoe them down.

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LOL! yeah... right.

Of course you could in FFXI with the right job.

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Originally Posted by Mercuito

(I know cos i played FFXI and understand the FF holy trinity very well)

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This made me laugh, most of the DPS jobs could succesfully tank in FFXI. Ive solo tanked upto and including Delve as MNK and DNC. Stack up on PDT and MDT gear, sub WAR or DNC for voke and you could tank as pretty much any job. Holy Trinity? For a large part of the life of FFXI SMN was used as a main healer because of the massive mana pool compared to other jobs. NIN was meant as a DPS (or DD using FFXI nomelature) but players were able to use shadows as a form of damage mitigation to tank with.

MNK made a stand up tank due to high HP pool and able to maintain enmity from the pure damage output.

Hell, taking a tank was sub optimal for a lot of content because it meant less DPS.

Dear SE,

People enjoy playing the game one way, please force them to play the way I like playing. I am the authority on how people should play.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Dear SE,

People enjoy playing the game one way, please force them to play the way I like playing. I am the authority on how people should play.

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Why did it make me think of south park that reply? XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4jn77VKlQ

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I love this thread originator's idea the XI had clearly defined roles... thinking noone else here ever played XI. In XI the go-to tank was not a tank. XI's Ninja was considered by players to be one of the best tanks... even though it didn't have a single tanking skill in it's arsenal. In a party that had Ninja tanking you NEEDED an off-tank, even if a good... no, BRILLIANT Ninja could keep their mitigation spells up indefinitely. This is because Ninja were literally Thieves with spells. So squishy that if a mob sneezed too hard in a Ninja's general direction they died. Utsusemi was a mitigation spell, but it was never meant as a tanking spell. It was an MP-free Blink, and NOONE wanted a Blink tank for the obvious reason, "When it drops, you die." That and alot of the harder monsters had attacks capable of ignoring shadows.

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NIN was quite capable of taking a hit at end game, but by then it didnt matter PLD with NIN sub was the goto tank for most end game content there were a few exceptions but not many. Did enjoy NIN/DRK that was fun. Alas people do however need to remove the rose tinted specs while alot of us have fond memories of XI, its systems just aren't going to work in a modern mmo.

I remember when coils of bahamut were considered extremely hard and where people WERE hard pressed to do well.

I think having varying levels of difficulty is a great game design, something for everyone.

I used to be against the idea of grabbing all the trash mobs, but now I just don't care. Trash is trash. Boss fights, though... those need to be a little more complex than just "tank and spank and maybe deal with a mechanic. Otherwise ignore mechanic" (remember when doors in Diabolos were required to be opened? Me neither).