Dark Knight Megathread

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引用元：RyuDragnier

How does WAR having a 1.2K potency cure with an extra regen tie into the themes or motifs around WAR? It doesn't.

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In WAR's case, it makes sense because WAR's powers are mostly suped-up natural abilities that people have -- in this case, it's an adrenaline spike, or a second wind (which makes sense given it's literally a suped-up Second Wind). As long as the ability is strictly personal it fits in with natural, non-magical abilities as much as Holmgang as a Last Stand sort of effect or the Inner Beast as an enrage mechanic.
I mean let's be real here, FF14's metaphysics are already a bit bizarre. Thancred, who can't manipulate aether and therefore should not be able to use magic, can somehow turn his life force into invisibility... and we just accept that. By comparison, Equilibrium at least seems probable.

In DRK's case, it feels off because DRK's power, being drawn from dark magic, should always come at a price. They shouldn't have "free" healing; they should only have the ability to rip life force from someone else. Same sentiment why DRK shouldn't be able to heal other people directly, unless that health comes from somewhere else, like vampirism or a personal transfer.

Looking at the original Sole Survivor through that lens, you have a skill that essentially steals someone's soul or last breath in order to infuse yourself with power. The problem is that while it's thematic to DRK, it's also mechanically useless to have a skill that only heals you when someone dies -- hence the consolation effect, despite that free heal not fitting the theme either and the delayed heal being only marginally more useful.
(And now you have RPR who uses that iconography better.)

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引用元：RyuDragnier

How does WAR having a 1.2K potency cure with an extra regen tie into the themes or motifs around WAR? It doesn't.

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I specifically said "pre-trait."

It's a vestigial element of how Equilibrium worked before --balancing the two outputs of the beast within, between Wrath (Defiance) and Abandon (Deliverance). You know, before the job was gutted?

Could it be a whole lot better, to better supply theme despite its interactions having all been pruned? Sure. But it's on a XIV job that has always been about self-healing, and has had that skill since HW, as opposed to it just being carbon-copied from its originating job to another just because -- and purposely in place of more fitting options for the receiver.

Many posts talk about Sole Survivor being useless in today's game, and that's true, but I did post a long while back a possible solution.

Sole Survivor, 90s CD, 15 second duration.
->Marks yourself with the Sole Survivor effect.
->Sole Survivor effect: Compiles all of received and dealt damage. When the effect expires, you heal and gain blood according to the compiled amount. Pressing the ability again ends the effect early.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

Many posts talk about Sole Survivor being useless in today's game, and that's true, but I did post a long while back a possible solution.

Sole Survivor, 90s CD, 15 second duration.
->Marks yourself with the Sole Survivor effect.
->Sole Survivor effect: Compiles all of received and dealt damage. When the effect expires, you heal and gain blood according to the compiled amount. Pressing the ability again ends the effect early.

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While i like these kinds of abilities, suggesting a fix that works 100% differently is suggesting another ability. Sole survivor was about gaining off the death of a marked target.

I only bring this up in the same sense that it would be saying delirium the weaponskill is not delirium the inner release equivalent, and people were talking about the mark.

Perhaps a nitpick, but just to keep conversations straight.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

Many posts talk about Sole Survivor being useless in today's game, and that's true, but I did post a long while back a possible solution.

Sole Survivor, 90s CD, 15 second duration.
->Marks yourself with the Sole Survivor effect.
->Sole Survivor effect: Compiles all of received and dealt damage. When the effect expires, you heal and gain blood according to the compiled amount. Pressing the ability again ends the effect early.

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So a personal Macrocosmos, okay.

I mean on the one hand... provided that it actually accounts for damage taken while barriers are active then it's a distinct "maybe", though our current heavy emphasis on mitigation does interfere with that slightly. It would fit nicely with my old suggestion for Living Dead to instantly max out your health and give invuln but drain a percentage of health over time. (I know LD's passed discussion now but I have a hunch the current iteration is a holdover for next expansion.)

On the other, as Briar said it's definitely not Sole Survivor in the slightest, and I'd be on the fence about it fitting DRK's themes since it's arguably still "free" healing (though you could argue it's your own health paid as the price for... your own health).
I'd also worry about it generating Blood since that means your damage output depends on you triggering its maximum effect every time it comes off CD.

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引用元：RyuDragnier

As much as I'd like to make it interesting, I sadly do not trust the devs to do it without absolutely making the move useless. They have a poor track record with DRK for the most part and can't be trusted. I still think the Living Dead fix was a fluke.

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Not necessarily a fluke because a fluke implies you were attempting to achieve the desired result but fail continuously only to "luck" out one time. It's just pure incompetence that something like that stayed in the game after 4.0. At least in 4.0 you could use AD spam to heal yourself up to a respectable amount where your healers might only need to toss a single ogcd to remove the effect. Dungeon pulls are really the only time invuls get used outside of savage.

DRK is just designed with 3.0 in mind in a game thats no longer in 3.0 and is just a casualty of poor design. Salted earth was a good example. Players complained that placing the ground aoe was tricky since the cursor had no range. 6.0 fixed the cursor to limit is max range and SE was reduced to a point blank aoe. The issue was with the ground target having no cap, but they fixed that so why does SE only place the aoe at your feet now?

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引用元：Archwizard

So a personal Macrocosmos, okay.

I mean on the one hand... provided that it actually accounts for damage taken while barriers are active then it's a distinct "maybe", though our current heavy emphasis on mitigation does interfere with that slightly. It would fit nicely with my old suggestion for Living Dead to instantly max out your health and give invuln but drain a percentage of health over time. (I know LD's passed discussion now but I have a hunch the current iteration is a holdover for next expansion.)

On the other, as Briar said it's definitely not Sole Survivor in the slightest, and I'd be on the fence about it fitting DRK's themes since it's arguably still "free" healing (though you could argue it's your own health paid as the price for... your own health).
I'd also worry about it generating Blood since that means your damage output depends on you triggering its maximum effect every time it comes off CD.

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Then allow me to provide a more comprehensive ability, the last post I had was mostly written quickly - I gave it more thought this time however.

Sole Survivor 60 sec cooldown, 10 second duration
->Grants you the Sole Survivor effect.
->Sole Survivor effect: compiles all damage mitigated and shielded. At the end of the duration heals you for 75% of the compiled amount instantly + 25% of the compiled amount over 12 seconds. Ending the effect early is possible upon pressing again.

And one more thing I kind of felt like is needed, to give these 2 abilities some uniqueness/flavor/identity.
->Dark Missionary: reduces magic damage taken by 10%, and grants the Missionary buff to all party members.
->Missionary effect: dealing damage with any action heals you for 75 potency, lasting for 15 seconds.

->Heart of Light: reduces magic damage taken by 10%, and grants the Light buff to all party members.
->Light effect: grants a regeneration effect for 15 seconds, with a potency of 60.


Oh and please give Dark Missionary at 70. Its a pain to play it in UWU/UCOB... If you are all in for homogenization, at least go all the way with it since the job feels powerless in that content to help the party. Identity can be placed in small differences like the one above.

Tbh I'd love for Dark missionary to have some side effect attached related to healing in some way, that's what a missionary is in a way, a healer. Giving a lifesteal or increasing healing received by party members for the duration would be neat.
As for Heart of Light it could spread the Brutal Shell over all party members to stay consistent with Heart of Stone/Corundum.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

Then allow me to provide a more comprehensive ability, the last post I had was mostly written quickly - I gave it more thought this time however.

Sole Survivor 60 sec cooldown, 10 second duration
->Grants you the Sole Survivor effect.
->Sole Survivor effect: compiles all damage mitigated and shielded. At the end of the duration heals you for 75% of the compiled amount instantly + 25% of the compiled amount over 12 seconds. Ending the effect early is possible upon pressing again.

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While it's more specific, I would once again note that it's still a sense of "free" healing, and in practice is Equilibrium on steroids.

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And one more thing I kind of felt like is needed, to give these 2 abilities some uniqueness/flavor/identity.
->Dark Missionary: reduces magic damage taken by 10%, and grants the Missionary buff to all party members.
->Missionary effect: dealing damage with any action heals you for 75 potency, lasting for 15 seconds.

->Heart of Light: reduces magic damage taken by 10%, and grants the Light buff to all party members.
->Light effect: grants a regeneration effect for 15 seconds, with a potency of 60.

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I've suggested similar before, so I'm all for it. I would say swap the Missionary effect to a low percentage of damage output though a la Bloodbath, since "75 potency per damaging action" can be wildly different between any two jobs of varying attack speeds, such as BLM versus NIN.

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引用元：Archwizard

While it's more specific, I would once again note that it's still a sense of "free" healing, and in practice is Equilibrium on steroids.

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Now you know that's hyperbole, nothing will ever be stronger than Equilibrium seeing as it's in total a 2,200 cure potency heal (no other heal in the game matches it in cure potency).

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引用元：RyuDragnier

Now you know that's hyperbole, nothing will ever be stronger than Equilibrium seeing as it's in total a 2,200 cure potency heal (no other heal in the game matches it in cure potency).

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"Nothing will ever be stronger than Equilibrium", huh?

2200 potency is about 45-50% of your HP, true. Except that what he described is 100% of all damage sustained while it's active, including barrier and mitigation effects. 75% of which is given instantly, compared to Equilibrium's 55%.

If you take more than half your health in raw damage in a 10 sec period, it's overall a greater heal with upward scaling -- and between tankbusters, Savage autoattacks, W2W, and the raw 25% of your HP you're given by TBN already, that's not hard to do. Hell, how many bosses have "set HP to 1" mechanics?

As it currently stands, we have Living Dead making it impossible to reduce us below 1HP. With "Sole Survivor" as described, you could pop it and get potentially another instant 100% heal with a HoT after. All of which is immune to Healing Potency reduction, all on a 1 min CD.

And you're saying that will never be stronger than Equilibrium.

Just want to remind ppl that Oblation and AST Exaltation have the exact same 60 sec recast timer, same 10% dmg reduction but the latter gets a 500 potency cure at the end of its duration. Seems like an easy copy and paste fix for Oblation.

At least when you compare WAR's ToB to SCH's Protraction, there's an obvious advantages to each version. One being stronger but on a longer cd and one being weaker but on a shorter cd. Oblation and Exaltation is literally the same but the added benefit of a cure at the end is usually better. You can't even stack two oblations on each other for a stronger effect (but still weaker than rampart since its multiplicative).

They just need to lower the cd of TBN to 10-12 secs and see what happens. Don't even need to change the MP cost. Just lower the recast timer and I'm sure that will fix some of DRK's problems.

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引用元：Marxam

They just need to lower the cd of TBN to 10-12 secs and see what happens. Don't even need to change the MP cost. Just lower the recast timer and I'm sure that will fix some of DRK's problems.

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Really wouldn't. The MP cost is the primary limiter on TBN's cooldown, which is why the CD can afford to be so low for DRK compared to other tanks -- we won't have it every 15 seconds, unless we're conserving MP at a damage loss to our opener.

Riddle of Earth (Lv. 64, Melee DPS): Grants 3 stacks of Riddle of Earth, each stack reducing damage taken by 20%. Duration: 10s/Recast: 30s. Maximum Charges: 3.
Arcane Crest (Lv. 30, Melee DPS): Grants Crest of Time Borrowed to self, creating a barrier that nullifies damage totaling up to 10% of maximum HP. Gradually restores HP (50 potency/tick for 15 s) to self and nearby party members when barrier completely absorbed. Duration: 5s/Recast: 30s.
Third Eye (Lv. 6, Melee DPS): Reduces the amount of damage taken by the next attack by 10%. Increases Kenki Gauge by 10 when hit. Duration: 4s/Recast: 15s.

Oblation (Lv. 82): Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 10%. Duration: 10s/Recast: 60s Maximum Charges: 2.

I understand that you have to take mitigation actions in the context of the larger toolkit, but this is why Oblation is underwhelming. If it's meant to just be a TBN upgrade, make it a TBN upgrade. Otherwise, at least let it outshine a Lv. 6 melee dps ability.

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引用元：Archwizard

Really wouldn't. The MP cost is the primary limiter on TBN's cooldown, which is why the CD can afford to be so low for DRK compared to other tanks -- we won't have it every 15 seconds, unless we're conserving MP at a damage loss to our opener.

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In singletarget, DRK produces almost exactly 12000 MP per minute, just barely enough to hypothetically hit TBN on cooldown (if it were ever useful to hit TBN on cooldown).
In AoE, DRK produces just shy of 15000 MP per minute, which (assuming you started the encounter with a decent amount of MP to slowly draw down) would be enough to hit TBN every 12 seconds or so effectively indefinitely.

That change would leapfrog DRK from being roughly on par with GNB and somewhat behind PLD for mitigation+healing in dungeon pulls to being ahead of PLD by a similar margin. I honestly think it would kind of be overkill.

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引用元：Lyth

Riddle of Earth (Lv. 64, Melee DPS): Grants 3 stacks of Riddle of Earth, each stack reducing damage taken by 20%. Duration: 10s/Recast: 30s. Maximum Charges: 3.
Arcane Crest (Lv. 30, Melee DPS): Grants Crest of Time Borrowed to self, creating a barrier that nullifies damage totaling up to 10% of maximum HP. Gradually restores HP (50 potency/tick for 15 s) to self and nearby party members when barrier completely absorbed. Duration: 5s/Recast: 30s.
Third Eye (Lv. 6, Melee DPS): Reduces the amount of damage taken by the next attack by 10%. Increases Kenki Gauge by 10 when hit. Duration: 4s/Recast: 15s.

Oblation (Lv. 82): Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 10%. Duration: 10s/Recast: 60s Maximum Charges: 2.

I understand that you have to take mitigation actions in the context of the larger toolkit, but this is why Oblation is underwhelming. If it's meant to just be a TBN upgrade, make it a TBN upgrade. Otherwise, at least let it outshine a Lv. 6 melee dps ability.

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My point exactly. If TBN just got an oblation like upgrade it wouldn't be an issue. I think the problem is they are expecting the utility of oblation to be the selling point when in reality you have other ogcds to take care of. Maybe on PC its doable but on controller it does become extremely difficult to target a party member with oblation, let alone two, while taking care of keeping my ogcds rolling. The created utility for it in a game which rarely needs it if at all. Oblation just gives me 4.0 SiO vibes. Yes it is technically a good effect and useful in niche circumstances but ultimately redundant when TBN just does it all.

Im also not a fan of how back loaded DRK's mitigation is. Excluding role skills, they only get shadow wall as your true defensive in dungeon pulls till you get TBN at 70. Dark Mind doesn't even matter. Even GNB a job that was introduced at 70 gets camo, nebula and HoS before 70. It just makes leveling DRK more miserable than it needs to be.

Actuall making AD cost mp would fix alot of the self sustain issues in dungeons. The real thing is the self sustain in regular content and single target situations. Its clear as day that healers have to babysit the DRK more than any other tank when it comes to simply auto attacks.

TBN needs to either have the MP refunded if it doesnt break or automatically grant dark arts at the end of its duration.

Simply just grant a small regen to oblation would make it a little better but not sure it would fix its issues.

Are we expecting DRK changes in 6.2

I dont expect any changes given they just fixed alot of stuff for us and are basically like be quiet until 7.0

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引用元：Marxam

Im also not a fan of how back loaded DRK's mitigation is. Excluding role skills, they only get shadow wall as your true defensive in dungeon pulls till you get TBN at 70. Dark Mind doesn't even matter. [...] It just makes leveling DRK more miserable than it needs to be.

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引用元：Derio

Actuall making AD cost mp would fix alot of the self sustain issues in dungeons. The real thing is the self sustain in regular content and single target situations. Its clear as day that healers have to babysit the DRK more than any other tank when it comes to simply auto attacks.

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Replace Flood of Darkness/Shadow with Abyssal Drain on an MP cost.
It's the bare minimum of what DRK needs, honestly. You wouldn't even need to change AD's potency.

It separates AD from C&S, it addresses our sustainability in multi-target scenarios and dungeons, it shores up our survival at an early level before we gain TBN.
Not to mention that it makes strategizing our MP usage more important in dungeons, since before TBN we just burst it all as soon as we have it, which makes the behavior encouraged by TBN itself jarring early on; this would more naturally transition into that behavior, while adding onto what we already have.

The fact that DRK has such limited survival tools at low levels probably stems from the removal of Dark Passenger and the recastable Abyssal Drain with old Dark Arts, and the complete lack of replacements to make up for them.

And now we've got Shadowbringer for the "sword wave" visual, so Flood's not exactly sticking around on the grounds of being iconic. Even if it was, you could just swap Flood into the "AoE C&S" slot (just bump the potency by 10), or better yet, bring back Dark Passenger for that (especially since a Blind would be useless on bosses anyway but extremely useful in AoE so I doubt anyone will complain about not having both).

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引用元：Archwizard

Replace Flood of Darkness/Shadow with Abyssal Drain on an MP cost.
It's the bare minimum of what DRK needs, honestly. You wouldn't even need to change AD's potency.

It separates AD from C&S, it addresses our sustainability in multi-target scenarios and dungeons, it shores up our survival at an early level before we gain TBN.
Not to mention that it makes strategizing our MP usage more important in dungeons, since before TBN we just burst it all as soon as we have it, which makes the behavior encouraged by TBN itself jarring early on; this would more naturally transition into that behavior, while adding onto what we already have.

The fact that DRK has such limited survival tools at low levels probably stems from the removal of Dark Passenger and the recastable Abyssal Drain with old Dark Arts, and the complete lack of replacements to make up for them.

And now we've got Shadowbringer for the "sword wave" visual, so Flood's not exactly sticking around on the grounds of being iconic. Even if it was, you could just swap Flood into the "AoE C&S" slot (just bump the potency by 10), or better yet, bring back Dark Passenger for that (especially since a Blind would be useless on bosses anyway but extremely useful in AoE so I doubt anyone will complain about not having both).

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Honestly yeah, I don't think I'd miss Flood if they were to go that route.

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引用元：Archwizard

And now we've got Shadowbringer for the "sword wave" visual, so Flood's not exactly sticking around on the grounds of being iconic. Even if it was, you could just swap Flood into the "AoE C&S" slot (just bump the potency by 10), or better yet, bring back Dark Passenger for that (especially since a Blind would be useless on bosses anyway but extremely useful in AoE so I doubt anyone will complain about not having both).

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Ha funny I had that same problem idea in my head weeks ago glad I wasn’t the only one who thought this

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引用元：Derio

Simply just grant a small regen to oblation would make it a little better but not sure it would fix its issues.

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The issue with oblation is it has basically no impact compared to what its competing with and its not really a skill DRK ever needed.
I think we can all agree that the design idea behind Oblation is that its mean to be paired with TBN, basically all the time, and its a really weak cooldown on its own.
It seems to me the devs thought they were being clever with its design, as people complain about TBN not breaking so if we buffed it that would happen even more.

The issue becomes "when am I supposed to use this?". Oblation is the 4th best mitigation cooldown you can pair with TBN. For anything serious you're likely going to want Shadowall for the 30%, and if thats on cooldown you're going to go with Rampart, or more likely Dark Mind with its 60s cooldown. Especially in the current savage tier, Dark Mind really outshines Oblation in any place you'd want to use it on yourself for basically any tank mechanic. It has the same cooldown, but 20% is just so much more noticable than 10% even with two charges.

All that leaves Oblation for is for throwing it on someone for their protection. Which I mean, its okay at that. TBN is going to be doing the heavy lifting if its a non tank you're trying to save, 10% is rarely going to be the difference maker there.
10% mitigation isn't nothing, but its not a lot. Worth using but its not satisfying, and in most scenarios feels like it can be ignored entirely in favor of just using TBN. Either the hit is strong enough to oneshot them through TBN, or TBN is enough on its own to dull the hit and save your target, there is a very, very small window where its required to use both to save someone.

And if you're putting it on the other tank, and they use their own mitigation, you're likely going to just be over-mitigating for no reason. So its useful, but if you're using it, you're already in sub-optimal positions. This honestly just lead to me throwing it out randomly during downtime for no other reason than I can. Like I use it in the 2nd half of P3S to take the damage from those teeth, but its not like it makes that any more comfortable for me even, its just a button I can press that feels like its almost doing nothing on its own. I've never found myself in a situation where I'm thinking
"man I'm taking a lot of damage here, good thing I have a charge of Oblation"

Its a shame, it has a cool animation, and I love tank shields you can throw onto other players, I just wish it did more, and I wish it was a skill worth using without factoring in the existence of TBN

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引用元：Oizen

Its a shame, it has a cool animation, and I love tank shields you can throw onto other players, I just wish it did more, and I wish it was a skill worth using without factoring in the existence of TBN

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Plus I have to say, making it a regen not only overlaps with Aurora from a utility standpoint -- both share the same cooldown, "apply to ally" function, and lackluster "probably won't make a difference" strength as-is -- but... Oblation's animation is very clearly a protective shell of some kind. Even with a regen tacked on, the potency would probably be pathetic just so Aurora's "competitive" and it doesn't outshine the DR.

But going back to this point,

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I think we can all agree that the design idea behind Oblation is that its mean to be paired with TBN, basically all the time, and its a really weak cooldown on its own.
It seems to me the devs thought they were being clever with its design, as people complain about TBN not breaking so if we buffed it that would happen even more.

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It's an unusual case of "having your cake and eating it too," since it seems like the devs couldn't decide on whether to upgrade TBN on par with other tanks for fear of arousing the ire of players who struggle getting Dark Arts, and tried to "compromise" by adding Oblation as a separate function... that you're expected to pair with TBN anyway despite their disparate cooldowns, and contributes to our already significant double-weaving and button bloat.

The biggest oddity is that there were ways to implement a similar function without interfering with Dark Arts at all, as a potential upgrade to TBN itself rather than a separate button. (Whether to give it the new animation being entirely up to their discretion of course.)

For instance, just having a mitigation effect automatically activate on the target if/when the barrier breaks. A conditional sequence like this is already part of Living Dead, so it's not like it would be impossible to make -- they did it twice on one action in our kit already.
And without having to worry about making Dark Arts harder to get, they'd be free to amp up the mitigation as high as they saw fit should 10% prove insufficient compared to, just checking my notes here, the doubled effect and self-healing components other tanks received.

An alternative that was suggested to me before by Shurrikhan is to instead reduce the strength of the barrier to, say, 20% of max health but simultaneously apply a 20% DR (like SMN's barrier in PVP). It would provide the same relative strength of the existing TBN while the barrier's active (within 1% EHP anyway), but also extend its value once the barrier is shattered which is TBN's great weakness -- another total upgrade that doesn't threaten Dark Arts acquisition.

It might require a tiny bit of creative thinking, but if they focus on the barrier itself as the initial "extra defense for timing your block", they'd just have to extend the back half of other on-demands onto TBN to put us on par.

Admittedly I almost have to wonder if the reason they were skittish about upgrading TBN directly is because they couldn't think of another ability name to escalate off "The Blackest Night", but I imagine a far more practical reason is that TBN's "unique" cooldown and resource cost combination just makes it too difficult for them to balance against their projections for other on-demands. The fact that TBN can potentially be used 4x per minute versus Oblation's maximum of up to twice a minute (more in line with other oDs) is probably significant to that decision.

It honestly didn't need to be anything more than just adding 10% mit alongside TBN and TBN increased to 10 secs to compensate for the added mitigation. All they did was make an already ogcd heavy job more annoying to play on controller.

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引用元：Marxam

It honestly didn't need to be anything more than just adding 10% mit alongside TBN and TBN increased to 10 secs to compensate for the added mitigation. All they did was make an already ogcd heavy job more annoying to play on controller.

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... Admittedly I can sort of see why they didn't go that particular route, given that 10 sec duration on a 15 sec cooldown means you'll spend more time with it active than not if you use TBN on CD.

they can always adjust the recast timer and increase it for balance or even have the oblation effect directly tied to TBN so its done when TBN expires, but imo the MP cost was always just enough of a deterrent to teach players the importance of always holding 3k mp. Just because it's on a short cd doesn't mean you always have the MP to use it when its up and I've seen enough DRK's dump all their mp in their burst only to have the healers carry them on the next mechanic because they didn't save 3k for a TBN.

However if TBN is up more often then theoretically, you would need less heals since most of the time you are taking 0 dmg till the shield pops putting it imo on par with WAR's BW in terms of sustain.

I wish that they would just redesign DRK's mitigation effects so that they were are consistently flat damage reduction bubbles across the board (i.e. Oblation and Shadow Wall) to match the animations. You don't actually need to use %DR on every job, and it's a nice flavor choice.

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引用元：Lyth

I wish that they would just redesign DRK's mitigation effects so that they were are consistently flat damage reduction bubbles across the board (i.e. Oblation and Shadow Wall) to match the animations. You don't actually need to use %DR on every job, and it's a nice flavor choice.

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No Im tired of bubble parties but I agree with you flavor and cohesiveness is a great idea but NO MORE BUBBLES GRACIAS! (might have spelled that wrong lol)

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引用元：Lyth

I wish that they would just redesign DRK's mitigation effects so that they were are consistently flat damage reduction bubbles across the board (i.e. Oblation and Shadow Wall) to match the animations. You don't actually need to use %DR on every job, and it's a nice flavor choice.

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Honestly I think they should split the tanks in the same way they split the healers. You have have flat mitigation tanks, PLD/GNB (shield oath) and eHP tanks, WAR/DRK (Defiance). The bigger HP pool would buff TBN and would differentiate the tanks enough at a glance just by looking at their HP. It would also pair well with shield healers. Throwback to WAR/SCH synergy of the older expansions.

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引用元：Marxam

Honestly I think they should split the tanks in the same way they split the healers.

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I'd think if they were going to split the tanks in any way, it would have been between Main Tanks and Off-tanks, like they planned when they added Gunbreaker.

i just need they change battle stance like cloud xd

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引用元：Lyth

I wish that they would just redesign DRK's mitigation effects so that they were are consistently flat damage reduction bubbles across the board (i.e. Oblation and Shadow Wall) to match the animations. You don't actually need to use %DR on every job, and it's a nice flavor choice.

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I'm not sure if the bolded part is true. Tankbusters in this game can be tuned to almost 300% of a tank's maximum HP, unmitigated. It's difficult to imagine a system of flat-HP mitigation skills that would allow DRK to survive something like Soul Tether, even if it's married to something like Rampart which remains percentage-based as a role skill. It's more difficult still to imagine a system that would allow DRK to survive it without effectively giving DRK the ability to completely nullify the majority of "normal" Savage-sized (80~100% of max HP, unmitigated) tankbusters.

In general, flat-value mitigation is a bit tricky to balance, because at certain ranges of incoming damage, it very quickly becomes overpowered, but as the damage scales up, it pretty quickly goes from "average" to woefully underpowered. In FFXIV, I don't think you could build a tank around the concept that relies on it much more than DRK already does without creating a situation where certain things are needlessly easy and others are overly difficult to deal with.

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引用元：Marxam

Honestly I think they should split the tanks in the same way they split the healers. You have have flat mitigation tanks, PLD/GNB (shield oath) and eHP tanks, WAR/DRK (Defiance). The bigger HP pool would buff TBN and would differentiate the tanks enough at a glance just by looking at their HP. It would also pair well with shield healers. Throwback to WAR/SCH synergy of the older expansions.

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引用元：Archwizard

I'd think if they were going to split the tanks in any way, it would have been between Main Tanks and Off-tanks, like they planned when they added Gunbreaker.

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I think a split would work as long as they give both subroles opportunities to shine (maybe also magic vs physical?). I just haven't heard any particularly positive or negative feedback about the healer split so I couldn't make a call on if it'd be worth doing the same with tanks too or if it'd just be some arbitrary distinction.

Dunno if this has been answered in the thread before, but... how does DRK fare in solo play, in comparison to the other Tanks? Was thinking about gearing up for some solo content, such as the Bahamut Coils and Extreme fights, but I was wondering if it would be worth it to use, in comparison to stuff like WAR, PLD, and RDM; I've heard those three are the best, but how does DRK measure up to them?

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引用元：Travel

Dunno if this has been answered in the thread before, but... how does DRK fare in solo play, in comparison to the other Tanks? Was thinking about gearing up for some solo content, such as the Bahamut Coils and Extreme fights, but I was wondering if it would be worth it to use, in comparison to stuff like WAR, PLD, and RDM; I've heard those three are the best, but how does DRK measure up to them?

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For a lot of it, DRK's burst honestly makes it good enough to kill things before its sustain becomes an issue. And with the 6.1 change to Living Dead its honestly not the worst at keeping itself alive anymore.

I've rather easily soloed content up through Stormblood, not sure how much further I could go but I've never really had a reason

Thanks for that. Was planning on going for the Garo gear, was trying to decide if I wanted a huge axe or a huge sword; just trying to compare Warrior and Dark Knight, see which one to use.

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引用元：Oizen

For a lot of it, DRK's burst honestly makes it good enough to kill things before its sustain becomes an issue. And with the 6.1 change to Living Dead its honestly not the worst at keeping itself alive anymore.

I've rather easily soloed content up through Stormblood, not sure how much further I could go but I've never really had a reason

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If it is of any interest, I'm going for a POTD 200 solo run as DRK, I can give my input once it is done.

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引用元：Archwizard

I'd think if they were going to split the tanks in any way, it would have been between Main Tanks and Off-tanks, like they planned when they added Gunbreaker.

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MT/OT has a different definition pre SB than it does post. Back when boss fights had adds it was the OT that had to deal with it. Now all fights a singular boss and the OT just tag teams with MT for tank busters with nothing to do in between with regards to tanking outside of reprisal. Literally no reason to even have an OT now and it's only there as an antiquated design and forced on the player due to mechanics. For reference compare T1 to P1 boss fight and its literally night and day and see how MT and OT function in both.

If tanks should be split, it should be the result of their tool kits and not damage. Making OT the "damage tank" was never a good idea and the only reason WAR got that rep was because it was way over tuned in HW when compared to other tanks. Slashing debuff, 100% uptime on reprisal effect via SP, negate dmg penalty while in tank stance, seamlessly swap tank stances, ogcd that boosts ATK power, bloodbath synergy with defensive and offensive cds, etc. Yeah jobs can only dream of what WAR used to have and no other job has come close to as broken (and fun) as that.

Makes me wish they went back to the old style of MT handles the boss while OT handles the rest as opposed to what we have now.

Before DSR, i also thought Oblation was " meh " at best, but now, my POV is completly different.
To make it short : Oblation is basically " not that usefull " in 90% of the content, because those 90% of content don't hit hard enough, or doesn't push your team back in the wall.
But when the content hits like a truck, having 2 charges of 10% mitig you can throw at anyone, is actually REALLY good.

People saying that TBN and Oblation should be merged together is the WORST idea possible, and here is why in my opinion :
- TBN is your go to for everything, while oblation is not ( you specifically save it for specific situations, or wait for the 2 charges to be up for back to back TB ), merging them together would make us loose CONTROL over what we can do.
- TBN and Oblation's usage are completly different, one is a Shield, the other is %mitig. TBN and Oblation are the only " signature " tank CD's without diminushing return over time ( they don't loose %mitig or the shield doesn't disappear bit by bit ). Because of that, whenever you can, you want to use TBN as EARLY as possible for a TB, so that your shield breaks just before it fades off ( so you can have it earlier ), and for multi hit CD, you want to use Oblation as LATE as possible, so you can benefit the most of it.
If you merge those 2 together, they would work against each other, not to mention that being able to Oblation X person, but TBN Y person for the same mechanic, is massively good. The worst about changes, for any job really, is when they REMOVE the ability for players to have CONTROL about what they can do.

So yeah, merging TBN / Oblation together in my sense, is really bad. And about Oblation being " meh ", well, it's just that majority of content doesn't make it shine to it's true strength, since it doesn't make it " needed "

Merging TBN and Oblation could be rather easy.
When TBN breaks, the oblation effect would last full duration still.

Not to mention I believe it's time to make TBN give its 'breaking' reward, when the duration ends, even if not broken through damage. The only requirement really being that you need to be in combat, does that make it far easier to obviously use TBN so its duration ends right 1 second or so, as you go into combat then? Yeah, and would make it even more impressive tool, because now you would have complete control of when you want TBN to 'break' or its duration to end, to give its "free" Edge.

And wouldn't mind them increasing the TBN cd to 25 seconds, if it gave them more bonus effects, like, pld, gnb, and war has. Like, Oblation's inclusion to TBN effect lasting 10 seconds even after the shield breaks, then when TBN shield effect ends, by either breaking or duration, the Drk gains a regen, "Lingering Night", with some dark smoke lingering around the Drk, its regen potency could be similar to Pld's Knight's Resolve regen from Holy Sheltron, or if fitting to Drk Lore, be a lingering shield regen that keeps pulsing for x seconds, every server tick, giving Drk an odd form of "sustain".


For anyone wondering about Drk in Deep Dungeon, they are pretty good. 180 boss with the new LD change makes it very manageable, along with landmine plays(TBN bonus points as well). However Drk is the tank who suffers the most from "no ability" debuff, along with "no items" debuff, at the later floors. All other tanks keep either core abilities or high potency attacks to manage those. Would be nice if Drk could keep their Edge mp attacks in "no ability" debuff, thus able to have their 10% dmg buff. In Comparison, GNB has its Burst strike, Gnashing Fang combo(no continuation), Warrior has Fell cleave and Storm buff uptime, Paladin has goring blade and clemency(!). Had a run end late 90s(HoH) specifically because I was on Drk.

oblation would be even better skill if it could have a regen effect 12sec for 250 potency if used above 50% hp or 1000 potency heal if below 50% hp also increase duration of TBN by 3sec and when shield breaks you get all mp back if it doesn't break you get 50% back.

if using oblation on another target they get regen effect 12sec for 250 potency if used above 50% hp or 1000 potency heal if below 50% hp and 10% damage reduction and increase parry rate by 50% 10sec upon parry an attack gain 5 black blood.