Is anyone annoyed by the HUGE number of people using bots on this game?

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Some people actually like the crafting system. From what I hear the whole grinding-ness of it is fairly attractive to japanese players. Personally I kinda enjoy it. It's boring by itself but fun to do when watching university lectures or netflix. Saying "people bot because the system sucks" isn't a good argument because there are alternatives in the game like levelling dow/dom. If crafting is too tedious and boring then don't craft. Wasn't that the point of the game in the first place? That people could choose different jobs to -MAIN- so if you didn't like crafting you could just stick to dom/dow?

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Would like to touch on this simply because of the repair system. If you don't have crafts leveled you either have to find someone to repair for you or use the npc. No other game does this to this extent where it basically feels like crafting is required.

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Originally Posted by Radaghast

Would like to touch on this simply because of the repair system. If you don't have crafts leveled you either have to find someone to repair for you or use the npc. No other game does this to this extent where it basically feels like crafting is required.

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you can pay NPCs to repair. its expensive but not -that- expensive. I managed to push mrd to 50 by doing that since at the time there were like only 2 ppl on the server who could actually repair my axes. But you are right.

The only way to put players on a level playing field with bots is to disallow people to take more than one craft past rank 50, like in XI. Force people to specialise in one craft and reward them for it. Otherwise bots will rank up every craft to the cap and make money on the best of everything. There's bots on my server well on the way to a billion gil.

Domo Arigato Mr ro-BOT-o
Link in there.

The funny part is if you got rid of bots you'd be paying about 2k gil for a wind shard. Well I wouldn't, I still make my own despite having tonnes of useless gil.

The bad part is all these botters will get away with it, because as soon as the STF get off their lazy arses and do something about it they'll stop botting. By then they'll have nearly all classes at 50 and it won't matter.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

The funny part is if you got rid of bots you'd be paying about 2k gil for a wind shard. Well I wouldn't, I still make my own despite having tonnes of useless gil.

The bad part is all these botters will get away with it, because as soon as the STF get off their lazy arses and do something about it they'll stop botting. By then they'll have nearly all classes at 50 and it won't matter.

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lol speaking of that
i made a good 30mil off shards, helping to jack the prices to 600gil + for wind before the bots and rmt took control of the shard market

damn i miss those days, i made a fortune

I may be a minority, but I actually do enjoy the crafting system. Though I can see where people are getting at; doing low-level synths just to create a part will get tedious and boring.

From this topic, I can see two solutions to the problem:
- Banning all botters reported, and repeatedly banning any that emerge, system unchanged, stricter GM observations.
- Changing the crafting system in the future so it's more interactive/fun to use ingame, no idea about level of banning about bots in the future.

Lets go through the advantages and disadvantages of each one:

Mass Area of Effect Banning
Advantages
- Instant reduction in the amount of people botting.
- Works efficiently and quickly, with people reporting, GMs observing, and eventual action.
- Dissuade current bots to think about botting when ten people around them have mysteriously disappeared.

Disadvantages
- System still equally as dull, players still bored. New players to game will be equally inclined to bot to get out of doing the same boring reptition over and over again.
- Population drops will be assumedly high, according to opinions, if total annihilation of botters is performed.
- Banned users will either move to new game, continue botting, or make a new account, log in, and continue botting.

New Crafting System
Advantages
- Fun, innovative (hopefully) which draws more people into experiencing crafting firsthandedly.
- More focus on crafting as a 'class', rather than as a 'side content' or 'ghost class'.
- New players to game will see crafting as something worthwhile, and perhaps spend their time on grinding away at logs.

Disadvantages
- Current botters will most likely find new ways to bot new system, rendering botting population still existent.
- Not certain about effect, may be a deterrent or an attraction. Will build up its effects slowly.
- Will take longer to implement than above option.
- Will still be repetitive, no matter how it is implemented, incentive for gil will still be there.

Botters will exist, no matter how the game is designed or implemented. Those who live for botting, will bot, and that will not change, no matter what ideals we throw at them. Those who have botted, will most likely keep botting because they're used to it, and won't think about it.

The most the game can do is either repeatedly ban botters whenever they emerge, or design the game in such a way that future players will be encouraged to play with their hands and minds, not just the machine and mouse.

Nuru's and, to a certain extent, Kuro's suggestion involve the second option, while Vedis' is more the first. I am generally inclined to the introduction or implementation of a new system, one that will be more engaging then the current one, since I think the first option will just involve a cycle of botting, banning, botting and banning.

This may be my personal opinion, but in the long run, the second option will eventually see less botters than the first. While the first will be a fast way to get rid of any botters, new players to the game will have the same impression as the veterans, and a certain portion of them will turn to botting to ease their suffering. However, with the introduction of a (hopefully) fun crafting system, the majority of new players will choose not the bot, and, while the initial population of botters are present, the numbers adding to the population will be less and less.

If anybody can provide more options, that will be nice, and debate my points if you disagree.

On the same note, perhaps we can suggest ways to improve the crafting system so people are encouraged to actually use it, rather than the endless *enter* spam I see people do? To me, there's more to just that, but since people tend to just use standard synthesis, I can see where they are coming from. I was thinking of perhaps having different crafting options for different classes, or perhaps using more than just one key at a time.

Example: Take spinning threads e.g. making Cotton yarn. Perhaps instead of the normal synthesis, we can have the spinning option, where we can use the number pad's 2, 4, 6, 8 to do a "spinning" motion, while perhaps pressing shift/control/other buttons to limit the speed or control how it is spun, resulting in the NQ or HQ items depending on how those other buttons are used.

The crafting process does not need to be paused much like now, where the character pauses after each synthesis before we choose what synthesis we want to use.

I don't know much about this, but with some creativity, perhaps some results can show it for what it's worth.

even if crafting was more fun it would have to be repetitive like everything else in an MMO so the people botting now would probably still bot. Plus a lot of people bot for gil so that incentive would still be there.

Mass banning botters on the other hand would create a risk that many people would not take, so less people would bot in fear of losing their account.

guess my proposition wasnt that good uh well i tried :(. I wonder tho, is it possible for a botters to do botany and mining?

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

even if crafting was more fun it would have to be repetitive like everything else in an MMO so the people botting now would probably still bot. Plus a lot of people bot for gil so that incentive would still be there.

Mass banning botters on the other hand would create a risk that many people would not take, so less people would bot in fear of losing their account.

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I dont see how a mass ban would create a "fear" as, if I was to bot, and didnt get banned on a mass ban, then I'm obviously good enough not to get detected and would continue botting as my ego would be hitting the roof. It would make it worse, if they were banning left-right center as a person is detected, I'd be continuely thinking "my turn is any time now". And it'd be worse as I'd become more careless and do even more botting! such as 2accounts or something haha.

But in traditional sense what I saw on XI was a lot of people would do some hack to test/try it out then go back to legit in gear, then 8 months later get a ban haha. SE is consistent!

I've not bothered following this thread. Just ended up like the other 30 threads on this topic.

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Originally Posted by viion

I dont see how a mass ban would create a "fear" as, if I was to bot, and didnt get banned on a mass ban, then I'm obviously good enough not to get detected and would continue botting as my ego would be hitting the roof. It would make it worse, if they were banning left-right center as a person is detected, I'd be continuely thinking "my turn is any time now". And it'd be worse as I'd become more careless and do even more botting! such as 2accounts or something haha.

But in traditional sense what I saw on XI was a lot of people would do some hack to test/try it out then go back to legit in gear, then 8 months later get a ban haha. SE is consistent!

I've not bothered following this thread. Just ended up like the other 30 threads on this topic.

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mass ban would make people think "i could be next so i better stop botting"
and stop future botters from taking the risk of downloading a bot.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

mass ban would make people think "i could be next so i better stop botting"
and stop future botters from taking the risk of downloading a bot.

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if i was botting and avoided a mass ban, i would not think that. They did mass bans in XI and what did it achive? Nothing. It was either "get claim bot or gtfo our alliance". And sadly due to that and me not wanting to cheat, I was unable to do HNM's for a while until enough of my friends were confident to do it as a small group and just hope we out claim. More and more people got hacks and bots for XI, the mass banning did nothing.

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Originally Posted by Shinigami

guess my proposition wasnt that good uh well i tried :(. I wonder tho, is it possible for a botters to do botany and mining?

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Unfortunately, Shinigami, your method would cause crafting to become even more tedious with random screens popping up like that. And eventually, botters will be able to get around it. Your idea may work initially, but then, people will complain of its futility, and in the long run, will not be able to halt botters. D:

As for botany and mining....well, I can't say about mining, but in botany, EVERYONE bots. Otherwise, how will we get our lumber and logs?

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Once the game is in a good shape and we get over 1 mil or 2 population going on then i'm sure SE will bring down the ban hammer.

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I laughed when I saw the bolded bit.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I laughed when I saw the bolded bit.

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Maybe the new battle system will be really amazing though.

You never know. People go cazy for some good old fashioned auto-attack.

But then again, auto-attack just makes botting even easier.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Proof? And STF is down. But i'm on every day and never see the same ppl crafting in the same places. Also what are they Flooding the market with? i barly can get armor in this game.

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Logic tells that people usually do not try getting rich by selling R10 gear.

You are on everyday, mind i ask what you are actually doing? Getting to your rank (all of your ranks) would only take a couple hours all together.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

The funny part is if you got rid of bots you'd be paying about 2k gil for a wind shard. Well I wouldn't, I still make my own despite having tonnes of useless gil.

The bad part is all these botters will get away with it, because as soon as the STF get off their lazy arses and do something about it they'll stop botting. By then they'll have nearly all classes at 50 and it won't matter.

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Exactly. It's now a part of their business strategy, which is why SE should not wait. The harm's already being done. You'll actually do more harm to wait. As mentioned, when botters are banned shard prices will go up. The botters will have cheated their way to cheaper advancement. Same way the earliest goldsmiths levelled GS for basically free until the silver needle nerf made it painful.

These people make a living and a name off exhausting illegitimate imbalance, in hopes of finishing before it's caught. And SE lets them.

Silver needles were legal and it's still not right that the first R50 GS'ers basically got free rides and free millions at the same time while everyone behind them got a painful grind for **** profit. But that's just the breaks. This isn't even legal.

When they raise the level cap, these people will bot to try to ride that bubble. If they are not stung in an epic holocaust and sent straight to ban, to not pass suspension...then SE will have failed their jobs and the game is essentially worse than Detroit: Zero reason to stay. Every reason to leave.

This game is making a name for itself as a nest and haven of cheaters. The only reason it's not known for its infestation of RMT is because they have better games to profit from. Unfortunately RMT are smarter than playing cheaters. They follow the fame and fortune. We have so many cheaters on this server who are just waiting for that game to turn the corner so they can be kings of the hill. They're too stupid to move on, and unlike RMT figure someone, somewhere, is impressed by their achievements or eventually will be.

Ironically our biggest botters on the server are the server's biggest jokes already and have no hope of earning any respect for what they've gained. Even if they aren't banned, they're essentially finished.

Recently found someone using a fish bot at the ferry docks in Ul'dah - no bait, yet they continued to jig in the same pattern (middle, left, right) and did not respond to any tells for approx. five minutes.

It was only after I messaged another of their linkshell members that they finally disconnected and reconnected with a poorly constructed story as to why they didn't reply.

As I've come to learn, this same person is also accusing another of the same offense; talk about pot calling the kettle black! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Unfortunately, Shinigami, your method would cause crafting to become even more tedious with random screens popping up like that. And eventually, botters will be able to get around it. Your idea may work initially, but then, people will complain of its futility, and in the long run, will not be able to halt botters. D:

As for botany and mining....well, I can't say about mining, but in botany, EVERYONE bots. Otherwise, how will we get our lumber and logs?

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Call me crazy if you want but im a botanist lvl 40 and im no botter. As for the solution i got that already as explained in the post, but they could make that "security" likea bonus so instead of being a downer it would be someting good. like everytime that "security" would appear (once every 4-5 craft), it would give an instant 20% progress with lots of quality

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Originally Posted by Shinigami

Call me crazy if you want but im a botanist lvl 40 and im no botter. As for the solution i got that already as explained in the post, but they could make that "security" likea bonus so instead of being a downer it would be someting good. like everytime that "security" would appear (once every 4-5 craft), it would give an instant 20% progress with lots of quality

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its a joke lol

BOTony.....

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Maybe the new battle system will be really amazing though.

You never know. People go cazy for some good old fashioned auto-attack.

But then again, auto-attack just makes botting even easier.

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hah nah, SE wont get over 1m, I garauntee it! lol I'll slap myself with a wet fish and film it if im wrong. TERA will either barely make it past 1m or not make it past. (i am cautious here as they have 100k online daily atm and thats Korean alone)

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Originally Posted by Shinigami

As for the solution i got that already as explained in the post, but they could make that "security" likea bonus so instead of being a downer it would be someting good. like everytime that "security" would appear (once every 4-5 craft), it would give an instant 20% progress with lots of quality

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That could be a good remedy with some balancing; wish something similar was implemented at release.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

its a joke lol

BOTony.....

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;_; I got flamed for making a joke of of botany....-goes hides in a barrel-

Yea, Shinigami, I was merely making a joke. To be honest, I don't think you can really bot with gathering classes....it'll be harder since you actually need to pay a bit more attention to where your hacking your axe or pick and where you're fishing.

Hmm....it would be a good remedy if we get bonuses, but they'll have to design the "security" messages so they won't be easy to bot as well. That may be difficult....

Like Peregrine, I would like to see botters banned now, but I just have a feeling SE won't start until they're charging people to play again.

If suddenly one day SE puts a message on the Lodestone telling us the STF banned tons of accounts for botting I'll be pretty excited. Especially imagining the multiple rank 50's they would probably have at that point. Sweet, sweet justice. :3

I'll be fine when all bots get banned because it seems most want that. And I'll be able to sell shards at 250 again! :D

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the root of the problem isnt as simple as some people think it is though
the bot program being used, is apperently tied in to dozens of MMOs, so its not exactly something thats being made for 14 in specific
and it has nothing to do with the way the game is made

people who want to cheat, will cheat, and i think thats the real truth behind it, some people just cant comprehend why anyone would cheat in an especialy simple system compared to a tedious system, but since many are inherently lazy, that alone is reason enough

a change to the syste, will just mean a change to how the bot programs work, i dont think itl affect the number of them at all
enforcement is what will change it

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Totally agree 100%
Lazy people will cheat no matter what. If it's easy, hard, whatever. They take the quickest route to getting what they want, even if it's against the rules or harmful to others.
I agree that banning people for botting will reduce the number of botters. There will always be few who come back to try it again, but I can't see real players doing this more than once or twice. They get fed up and leave, or smarten up and behave.

As for changing crafting, I like it the way it is. I wouldn't be bothered if they made more of a game of it, made it more entertaining, but if they made it faster, or instant... I don't think I'd like it anymore. When I craft I'd like something to DO. Rather than hit one button and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Kurokikaze

Clearly you haven't played a game with an easier system. Especially since the biggest MMO out there (WoW) essentially has a built in bot.

1. Select your synth.
2. Select number of synths.
3. Start.
4. Go get a sandwich.

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This sounds terribly terribly boring. ; ; I would hate not being able to do anything on a crafting class. Not everyone wants to hit a button and go afk. Some people like crafting for crafting.

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Originally Posted by viion

I'll be fine when all bots get banned because it seems most want that. And I'll be able to sell shards at 250 again! :D

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nah~ let's make it 350/ea!

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Originally Posted by Alise

nah~ let's make it 350/ea!

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*drools* x.x that'd be so hawt, 7m a day i could make! lol how sad am i :(

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Originally Posted by viion

*drools* x.x that'd be so hawt, 7m a day i could make! lol how sad am i :(

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random not-on-topic question but:
what path did you take to get from iron lake to the lance? Did you go through grid? or cut through thanlana and mor'dhona?

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

random not-on-topic question but:
what path did you take to get from iron lake to the lance? Did you go through grid? or cut through thanlana and mor'dhona?

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Journey: http://viion.co.uk/upload/files/journey.jpg
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5G2cYWKhpY

Iron > Skull > Beard > Limsa > Ferry > Horizon > Blackbrush > Drybone > Tranquil > Humblehearth > Emerald Moss > Glory > Dragon Head > Riversmeet > The Lance

32 pages, 311 posts; you'd think this would warrant a response from a community rep.

How does Square Enix plan on dealing with this situation?

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Originally Posted by Len

How does Square Enix plan on dealing with this situation?

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By adding more bots. Who cares, for now? SE went out of their way to get rid of RMTs in this game, so much so that they initially made the game pretty much unplayable for the sake of diluting the RMT community, you don't think they'll take care of bots? for now...who cares, seriously? the game has bigger problems than bots at the moment and if the game fails then SE doesn't even have to consider botters at all.

I totally understand what you are saying about boting. It does suck, however, it truly is not as easy as reporting someone and getting them kicked. GM's and developers are super busy with bringing content and completing this game to make it PS3 ready. I am sure there is a team that is devoted to boting and I am also sure they have a "naughty list" compiled of everyone that has been boting and on what servers. Once this games poplutation reaches a number that can actually begin to generate income for SE, they will more than likely comence with "Opperation Clean Sweep" lol. Also, sometimes it is not the best idea to just kick a bot once discovered. You can learn alot about a bot by watching what the character does. You can actually make it so that a specific bot program can no longer be used at all on your game just by doing this. I guess for now just look to the future ;)

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Originally Posted by viion

Journey: http://viion.co.uk/upload/files/journey.jpg
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5G2cYWKhpY

Iron > Skull > Beard > Limsa > Ferry > Horizon > Blackbrush > Drybone > Tranquil > Humblehearth > Emerald Moss > Glory > Dragon Head > Riversmeet > The Lance

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how did you do all those cool graphics at the start?

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Originally Posted by Len

32 pages, 311 posts; you'd think this would warrant a response from a community rep.

How does Square Enix plan on dealing with this situation?

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they responded to a previouis post about this
just cuz someone makes a new post about the same topic doesnt mean they need to respond again

@OP: You clearly never played Aion. There were bots spamming /shout constantly IN THE MAJOR CITIES selling kinah. It wasn't for quite a long time (after I quit 8 months after launch) that they actually started doing anything about it. There were bots everywhere.

FFXIV, yes you do see the occasional obvious bot team but I tend to never see them more than once and usually they're just standing in camp idling.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

@OP: You clearly never played Aion. There were bots spamming /shout constantly IN THE MAJOR CITIES selling kinah. It wasn't for quite a long time (after I quit 8 months after launch) that they actually started doing anything about it. There were bots everywhere.

FFXIV, yes you do see the occasional obvious bot team but I tend to never see them more than once and usually they're just standing in camp idling.

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ye i havent but i have seen them in countless other mmo's since most dont have a harsh stance as se they r rampant eveywhere else

Just because someone doesn't care to respond to you, or spends his time crafting/fishing (very possibly while doing something else at the same time), he/she isn't necessarily a bot.

Just giving an heads-up.

I saw four in LL earlier all alchemists in weathered gear all making the same shards and all the same level...one was Balin Jerry like another poster has said and Lin Crrrr something or other.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Just because someone doesn't care to respond to you, or spends his time crafting/fishing (very possibly while doing something else at the same time), he/she isn't necessarily a bot.

Just giving an heads-up.

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Your right... those people who camp in a cave for 4 days straight fighting the 3 things that pop 24/7 are definitely playing but not responding.

either way next time read the post before you decide to respond:
"And for those who say "how do you know they are botting", a bit of youtube searching allows you to watch videos of the bots and see the obvious tells (which i wont discuss on here)."]

just to be clear, bots do follow certain patterns and exhibit certain behaviours which -do- make them noticeable. Especially when they glitch out, which is usually kind of funny.