:::Petition:: Removal of 1017 and Reinstatement of Global Queue System

again 1017 no sense ;(

/signed

/10charr

Here's the thing that pisses me off the most. Without a que syste, I could be sitting here trying to log on for 20 minutes, and someone else could boot up, and get in on his first try just by luck.

How in any way is that fair for anyone?

Edit: The downside for SE is, as someone who works in the games market, I can't in good conscience recommend this game to anyone who comes looking for it. And I end up having to tell them that it's impossible to play because SE locked out the servers and doesn't have a que. And that they can't make a character on the world their friend is on because the servers are no longer taking new characters.

He is what I hope doesn't happen.

I hope they don't have an auto afk sign out. I don't know about you but I enjoyed "examine" people for bazaar and such in FF11. Just a thought but sign me up for petition^^

Click

This should help you guys understand the situation you're currently in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiraiya

Click

This should help you guys understand the situation you're currently in.

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^this. Thank you Xiraiya.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that bigger queues=more logins to process=more load on the lobby server(s)=crashing lobby server(s). Does that spell it out plainly enough? The queues are set to a small number to prevent a crash, and those outside that number get "server too full". Some even get booted out of the queue when it gets turned down due to the load. They are monitoring 24/7, and adjusting up and down as they go. This is to ensure the best stability, while still allowing as many to play as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fixitman

Why is it so hard for people to understand that bigger queues=more logins to process=more load on the lobby server(s)=crashing lobby server(s). Does that spell it out plainly enough? The queues are set to a small number to prevent a crash, and those outside that number get "server too full". Some even get booted out of the queue when it gets turned down due to the load. They are monitoring 24/7, and adjusting up and down as they go. This is to ensure the best stability, while still allowing as many to play as possible.

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I was trying to explain this to Aytri, but she apparently cannot comprehend this. I completely agree with this. They tried opening the queue's early saturday and the servers crashed. -.-

No one will reply here from the team, as the only solution is hardwareexpansion.
The problem is the same still, putting everyone in gigantic queues will cause stability issues on either lobby- or logonserver.
Theres no other reason for it.
Theyre not doing this out of malicious intents.

And a comparison with aeion doesnt work, the serverinfrastructure is probably something completely different.

/elevenchars

/signed
10char

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AthelReiki

I was trying to explain this to Aytri, but she apparently cannot comprehend this. I completely agree with this. They tried opening the queue's early saturday and the servers crashed. -.-

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Oh, you're back. Guess you just love making trouble ^^ You explained something to me? Um, I think you just tossed out random sentences that weren't even what I had originally talked about. I just wanted a number or a time. Of which you roughly replied "They can't just let everyone in!" and I said I don't want them to let everyone in, I want an aprox time or number to which you roughly replied "But I told you they can't let everyone in, it'll crash!" and so on and so on... I think you're not comprehending. Again, if my words are too big or difficult for you, maybe I could draw a picture or diagram? Imagine this: a screen that doesn't go "ERROR! ERROR!" but rather says, "estimated time is ~~:~~" I could even colour it in crayon if you'd like. Do you have a favorite colour?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiraiya

Click

This should help you guys understand the situation you're currently in.

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Might you then explain why at Queue Position 6 I was booted out of the queue by Error 1017. Or the second time at Queue Position 221?

And unless there's FREE SERVER TRANSFERS adding more servers won't help. I wonder how many experiencing Error 1017 rolled on that server because of:
a) Friends
b) 1.0 Character Transfer


I will say I find it funny that Mr. Yoshida says a bunch of players logging in puts strain on the Login Server. ...Realy? More strain than -at least- 300 players (per server experiencing 1017) constantly going 'Start -> click character -> OK -> OK (Error 1017 window) -> Start -> click character -> OK -> OK (Error 1017 window) -> repeat for about about 15min. Also there's this handy dandy programs to automate such mundane tasks....like create a script to go through those motions, if the Error 1017 box doesn't show up then the script will just click endlessly on the location where the prompt would be, which wouldn't affect you once in game.

..in fact, none of the 'hotspots' necessary to "go through the motion" of logging in correlate, in game, to anything hazardous (ie click to move, 'X' on the window frame of the program window, log out button, etc, etc)

So, in truth, I really don't feel strain is being reduced on the Login Server(s), which would also be handling the Queue.


So far, Error 1017 is my only complaint. I don't care if I'm in a 4hr Queue. So long as I'm in a queue and can go do something else.

And not to be an elitist, but maybe Square should give priority login status to those who were with them the longest. I myself would still be out probably, started 1.0 way back when but didn't even take 5 steps...started in Phase 3 of '2.0'.
...or even to the first 1000 who rolled on each server during Phase 4 (since there was no wipe).

Because it's not exactly fair to allow 1.0ers to transfer characters for this 'rebirth'. Then go "oops, didn't figure many would like it. You can't play on that server you made plans to transfer to in Phase 3 [WHEN THERE WERE NO ISSUES], but you can re-roll. And eventually, maybe, play on the server your 1.0 character is on."
-or, in my case-

"Phase 4 will be a no-wipe phase. So cut loose and have fun, because you get to keep your character and progress on into launch. oops, guess if you want to play at all you'll need to re-roll on another sever, which may or may not begin experiencing the same restrictions as people migrate/join the game".

Even my dumbed-down explanation was too complex....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eewec

I am intensely curious. Why would opening the queues crash the servers?

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OK, I can see how some may not fully understand how the servers are setup. That is perfectly reasonable :)
There are servers that only handle the logins for multiple worlds (Lobby Servers). If they go down, more issues develop. Please see my previous post for a simple explanation of the low queues.

I am intensely curious. Why would opening the queues crash the servers?

Having Queues implemented as a standard way to filter people into the game keeping people in a holding pattern which means they aren't constantly trying to get added to those queues. Hell you could even add a sort of ETA judging by previous experience for last x hours and what it does at that time of the week last week or by what it did that time of day yesterday. Then let in the first x number when the server can handle it.

Alternatively; Queues only holding those who the server can handle right that moment = everyone else constantly pounding on the door to be added to those queues.

Hmm, I can see what might cause more network traffic from here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aytri

Oh, you're back. Guess you just love making trouble ^^ You explained something to me? Um, I think you just tossed out random sentences that weren't even what I had originally talked about. I just wanted a number or a time. Of which you roughly replied "They can't just let everyone in!" and I said I don't want them to let everyone in, I want an aprox time or number to which you roughly replied "But I told you they can't let everyone in, it'll crash!" and so on and so on... I think you're not comprehending. Again, if my words are too big or difficult for you, maybe I could draw a picture or diagram? Imagine this: a screen that doesn't go "ERROR! ERROR!" but rather says, "estimated time is ~~:~~" I could even colour it in crayon if you'd like. Do you have a favorite colour?

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Oh yeah, I'm just here messing with you now cause its entertaining. Are your insults & condescending designed to upset me? If so, its quite the entertainment ^^

Anyways, there's something called "cause and effect" - have you heard of this amazingly simple concept? If you remember - they implimented a queue to hold a lot more people on saturday - what happend? the servers crashed. Opening up the server queue and removing 1017 - what would happened? Are you smart enough to get from A to B on this one? Cause I too have crayons :) I could do a visio presentation too. Here's another good post that might help someone as simple as you to understand.

I've also said - that everyone's wording is incorrect. You are saying that you cannot play the game. Right? I am saying you CAN play the game. Just not on the server of your choice. So coming here and yelling and bitching that you cannot play is not a true statement. You are just being bitchy and whiny that you cannot play on the server that you want. #FirstWorldProblems #AmIRite?! You also through out some weird thing saying that "having a car with no engine means people can push me to work and I can still call it a ride to work." - Again, you analogy is incorrect. The car works just fine, you just don't want to drive it. That is your CHOICE. IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO TRY FOR HOURS TO GET INTO A SERVER AND NOT PLAY.

Also - blue, blue is my favorite color.

You are missing one Point in your "1017" logic. I could BET that not every attempt even is trying to connect to a server.
It will attempt once in about 2 Minutes anew or so. Thats when the loading screen for character selection takes slightly longer. So yes, sure, you spam. But it doesnt affect the server probably in this situation, where 1017 is known by the client.
Also, theres a workaround for this (NOT for 1017, but forcing real reload). Its in the forums.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lobby servers have the capability of detecting DOS (denial of service) attacks, and can respond to them by blocking such connections temporarily. Hammering on the lobby server(s) by an individual can be detected as such an attack. That would explain why the game spammers have a hard time getting in, while I get in every night. I only try a couple times every half-hour or so. The more aggressive you are, the lower your chances to get in.

For anyone who doesn't know what a DOS attack is, please Google it. I'm at work now, so I don't have time to explain it in detail.

It's 9am and already getting the dreaded 1017. Being a holiday weekend in the states, I bet I'm going to see this every time I try to log in for the next 4 days.

Considering that they're not only expanding existing worlds, but adding new ones and allowing world-server transfer of characters/avatars, I think that should finally alleviate their problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MerleonHades

You are missing one Point in your "1017" logic. I could BET that not every attempt even is trying to connect to a server.
It will attempt once in about 2 Minutes anew or so. Thats when the loading screen for character selection takes slightly longer. So yes, sure, you spam. But it doesnt affect the server probably in this situation, where 1017 is known by the client.
Also, theres a workaround for this (NOT for 1017, but forcing real reload). Its in the forums.

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Do you have a link for this force real reload? I can't find it in the forums just searching on those key words. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by AthelReiki

Totally understand. I too, paid. And as I said, I'm having little to no issues signing in. Again, tonight - under 5 tries for Excalibur.

So this petition is basically saying "Please just open the gates and let everyone on... so that eventually the servers will get overwhelmed and then crash so no one can play". Isn't that a bit selfish and assholish?

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in no way shape or form did i ever ask for them to "open the gates" so to speak. This petition was to promote the usage of the queue system a bit better, Just because the server cant handle the initial load on it due to the emense popularity does not mean that they cant use the login server to their advantage in a little better way. Please dont put words in my mouth like that as it makes not only myself as OP but others seem undignified and thats never been farther from the truth. We are average players just like yourself, who are also adults, just trying to get input from SE (wich by this post theyve already made statements regarding it). So we did what we needed to and got word from yoshida, wether or not it was benificial or not is ultimately up to everyones disgression.

Just read my orriginal post a little closer next time, were trying to get the queue system back in place like it used to be with a little higher capping, and so that for every 1 person that logs out 1 can log in, how on earth would that make everyone log in at the same time O_o. Atleast this way we can atleast walk away and let the queu timer go down while we do other personal life stuff eh? No more Carpal tunnel for everyone.

Thats not how they called it, there are some hints. And i will not explain it nor will i post a direct link, that will lead their stability "solution" ad absurdum.

Also, To be more direct. Basically what your trying to tell me, is a Multi-Billion Dollar company like SE (1.7b networth 2012) Has servers in place for a multi-million dollar game, that can not handle 250k simaltaneous login prefix's at the same time? Im a network engineer for myself, and the very unlikely fact that they are running servers that must be either ancient, or horribly undergeared in a MMO standpoint, are the very ideas they had invested in for a game with the drawing this has had. Even server stations built 10 years ago have the capabliilty of running MULTIPLE instances of several multiple thousands of instances on a login server system. The very statement that "having a larger login queue will cause server instability" just tells me that they need a serious sitdown with thier Hosting company they go through wether or not its through inhouse or contracted. There are countless games out there who have a much larger stream rate off a much smaller network and far more outdated gear than that of wich SE has their hands on and are able to implement queue and login systems that can safely and simaltaneously induce more than 40k players with little to no loss on the server bandwith. Its a very simple process, Just let me make it very clear that yoshida specified "Possibility of stability issues" and he did NOT come out and say "it will crash the game" specifically, He just simply stated he did not want to take a single drop of chance to affect the currently playing individuals.

You gotta realize that The way the game is set up they have a duty finder system composed of 2 servers, roughly 50-55 game servers, a update/patch server, a client server, and a login server, all designed to run in tandem and they are also run off of several networks. Wether or not they are RF/Fiber networks or OC2 tandem networks its still a very very large amount of bandwith at their hands. After all, the general availablility for internet speeds has skyrocketed up in the last 5 years from standardized 1mbps to now a commercial 1gig up/1gig down to residential alone. On bandwith even hat a quarter of that speed is enough to provide 95% of our entire gaming population a constant login stream including playtime. So it is highly highly unlikely that the issue resides in their hardware and bandwith congestion. IF it was the case then they are in severe need of major overhauls to their entire system, not just a basic upgrade to add more servers. were talking 380k member simaltaneous connections, Look at GW, WoW, LoTRO, League, hell even smite. None of them have the finances or equipement that SE has, yet they never had an issue with login like this, Something has been made horribly inadequet or something else is a underlying problem that they arent discussing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vexray

Also, To be more direct. Basically what your trying to tell me, is a Multi-Billion Dollar company like SE (1.7b networth 2012) Has servers in place for a multi-million dollar game, that can not handle 250k simaltaneous login prefix's at the same time? Im a network engineer for myself, and the very unlikely fact that they are running servers that must be either ancient, or horribly undergeared in a MMO standpoint, are the very ideas they had invested in for a game with the drawing this has had. Even server stations built 10 years ago have the capabliilty of running MULTIPLE instances of several multiple thousands of instances on a login server system. The very statement that "having a larger login queue will cause server instability" just tells me that they need a serious sitdown with thier Hosting company they go through wether or not its through inhouse or contracted. There are countless games out there who have a much larger stream rate off a much smaller network and far more outdated gear than that of wich SE has their hands on and are able to implement queue and login systems that can safely and simaltaneously induce more than 40k players with little to no loss on the server bandwith. Its a very simple process, Just let me make it very clear that yoshida specified "Possibility of stability issues" and he did NOT come out and say "it will crash the game" specifically, He just simply stated he did not want to take a single drop of chance to affect the currently playing individuals.

You gotta realize that The way the game is set up they have a duty finder system composed of 2 servers, roughly 50-55 game servers, a update/patch server, a client server, and a login server, all designed to run in tandem and they are also run off of several networks. Wether or not they are RF/Fiber networks or OC2 tandem networks its still a very very large amount of bandwith at their hands. After all, the general availablility for internet speeds has skyrocketed up in the last 5 years from standardized 1mbps to now a commercial 1gig up/1gig down to residential alone. On bandwith even hat a quarter of that speed is enough to provide 95% of our entire gaming population a constant login stream including playtime. So it is highly highly unlikely that the issue resides in their hardware and bandwith congestion. IF it was the case then they are in severe need of major overhauls to their entire system, not just a basic upgrade to add more servers. were talking 380k member simaltaneous connections, Look at GW, WoW, LoTRO, League, hell even smite. None of them have the finances or equipement that SE has, yet they never had an issue with login like this, Something has been made horribly inadequet or something else is a underlying problem that they arent discussing.

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You have to take into consideration square enix's complete and utter incompetence at being up to date/standard with other major gaming companies. Do they have the money? I'm not entirely sure anymore, their game sales have been pretty abysmal compared to how much they cost to develop. I also think it's likely ff14 was redeveloped on a small tight budget because they assumed not many would buy it like the first one.

So this is what our gameplay has been like so far:

FFMXVII: A Realm Rebroken Gameplay Footage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vexray

in no way shape or form did i ever ask for them to "open the gates" so to speak. This petition was to promote the usage of the queue system a bit better, <snip>

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They are already running it the best it can run, with constant adjustments. That is the only explanation for the fluctuating queue sizes, when you consider their statement that they are monitoring and adjusting 24 hours a day until the new hardware is ready. I realize that none of this was know at the time this thread was started, but it is known now. Isn't it time to just accept that this is the way it will be for the weekend, and no amount of posts are going to change that?

/signed

with so many games out there that have queues incase of overflow, why was FFXIV:arr released without an actual queue.

As of the Date of the Recent post by Yoshida ill Edit this post to reiterate on what hes said so that theres no more confusion. This post is not really as much for petitioning now as more of a rant and wishlist post since most of whats needed to be fixed will be fixed in the next few days. Lets just hope that what they do in the future is a direct corelation of the events thats transpired through beta phase till now, and they re-surface their thrive for customer service and quality games. They say old dogs cant learn new tricks but SE has fooled us in the past and i only hope that bad habits die hard.

/signed

Customer service please. I am literally trying to give you money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totight

/signed

Plz fix I wanna play

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Nice character name, I'm not even male but I will definitely be reporting that account!


Totight
Join Date
Aug 2013
Posts
1
Character
Tinydickloser White
World
Goblin
Main Class
ARCANIST Lv 2

nice name racist...get a life!

/signed

/10char

/signed..................... 4 hours trying to log in today >:(

.../signed

/signed

/10char

This totally this!

I'd rather wait in a queue for 3 hrs than bang my head against 1017 for 30 min.

/signed
SE, I'm not being a complainer here, I just want to play the game I'm paying for

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thundaja

Not signed. As stated by Yoshi san they are working to increase the server stability by upgrading them. He mentions that by taking away 1017 it will make the servers crash and then nobody will be able to play.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...72#post1111872

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Thundaja,

I agree in part with what you said, read the full text as well, but the solution taking this a bit too much to be released, it is not a matter to be possible or not to do this time, it is necessary for them to do as soon as possible.

I sympathize greatly with Yoshida, however it is undeniable that it was a tremendous mistake them, and for sure this will cause a bigger problem than any other, the bad reputation that the game will have.

Out problems like that the game itself is already perfect, so much so that I personally will continue to play, however most likely try to migrate to a server emptier, as soon as possible.

Do not bother with that angry talk, everyone is frustrated with these problems ...

:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vexray

Also, To be more direct. Basically what your trying to tell me, is a Multi-Billion Dollar company like SE (1.7b networth 2012) Has servers in place for a multi-million dollar game, that can not handle 250k simaltaneous login prefix's at the same time? Im a network engineer for myself, and the very unlikely fact that they are running servers that must be either ancient, or horribly undergeared in a MMO standpoint, are the very ideas they had invested in for a game with the drawing this has had. Even server stations built 10 years ago have the capabliilty of running MULTIPLE instances of several multiple thousands of instances on a login server system. The very statement that "having a larger login queue will cause server instability" just tells me that they need a serious sitdown with thier Hosting company they go through wether or not its through inhouse or contracted. There are countless games out there who have a much larger stream rate off a much smaller network and far more outdated gear than that of wich SE has their hands on and are able to implement queue and login systems that can safely and simaltaneously induce more than 40k players with little to no loss on the server bandwith. Its a very simple process, Just let me make it very clear that yoshida specified "Possibility of stability issues" and he did NOT come out and say "it will crash the game" specifically, He just simply stated he did not want to take a single drop of chance to affect the currently playing individuals.

You gotta realize that The way the game is set up they have a duty finder system composed of 2 servers, roughly 50-55 game servers, a update/patch server, a client server, and a login server, all designed to run in tandem and they are also run off of several networks. Wether or not they are RF/Fiber networks or OC2 tandem networks its still a very very large amount of bandwith at their hands. After all, the general availablility for internet speeds has skyrocketed up in the last 5 years from standardized 1mbps to now a commercial 1gig up/1gig down to residential alone. On bandwith even hat a quarter of that speed is enough to provide 95% of our entire gaming population a constant login stream including playtime. So it is highly highly unlikely that the issue resides in their hardware and bandwith congestion. IF it was the case then they are in severe need of major overhauls to their entire system, not just a basic upgrade to add more servers. were talking 380k member simaltaneous connections, Look at GW, WoW, LoTRO, League, hell even smite. None of them have the finances or equipement that SE has, yet they never had an issue with login like this, Something has been made horribly inadequet or something else is a underlying problem that they arent discussing.

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lol - tl;dr

but thank god you're a network engineer. As if the other 400 arrogant "network engineers, software developers, data center" people coming here saying "exactly whats wrong and how it needs to be fixed." - if thats the case, seriously - go to SE and tell them exactly what they're doing wrong.

You honestly think they have one of their network admins reading the forums looking to see if "someone knows how to fix the problem".

"oh. thats it! All we have to do is just open the queue back up! Jesus fuck! We didn't think of that! That'll help things tremendously!"

If you recall - last saturday they did open the queue and what happened? Server crashed.

So give the fact that the queue server was part of the problems of the server crashing, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the network admins are limiting that just to keep the servers up and running?

Seriously, I get people are upset and want to play the game "on their servers". But coming here and demanding that they open the queues and just get rid of 1017 without thinking of what would happen as a result. And to down play SE as ignorant from a networking standpoint (IE: just server capping for the lulz) is insane. Yes, SE should have had better foresight on the onslaught of the hoard and built better servers up front. But to claim that you know whats best for them right now and assume that they're just not doing it because of <whatever reasons> is arrogant, selfish, and downright ignorant.

Have fun ^^

I think the global que is in effect it is just that it seems to be over the limit that they allow. I think when it is over the limit that is when we get the 1017. No proof of this but just what it seems like to me. Iwas just getting 1017 and then finally got queued with 441 people. and then got in no problem on the next attempt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AthelReiki

lol - tl;dr

but thank god you're a network engineer. As if the other 400 arrogant "network engineers, software developers, data center" people coming here saying "exactly whats wrong and how it needs to be fixed." - if thats the case, seriously - go to SE and tell them exactly what they're doing wrong.

You honestly think they have one of their network admins reading the forums looking to see if "someone knows how to fix the problem".

"oh. thats it! All we have to do is just open the queue back up! Jesus fuck! We didn't think of that! That'll help things tremendously!"

If you recall - last saturday they did open the queue and what happened? Server crashed.

So give the fact that the queue server was part of the problems of the server crashing, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the network admins are limiting that just to keep the servers up and running?

Seriously, I get people are upset and want to play the game "on their servers". But coming here and demanding that they open the queues and just get rid of 1017 without thinking of what would happen as a result. And to down play SE as ignorant from a networking standpoint (IE: just server capping for the lulz) is insane. Yes, SE should have had better foresight on the onslaught of the hoard and built better servers up front. But to claim that you know whats best for them right now and assume that they're just not doing it because of <whatever reasons> is arrogant, selfish, and downright ignorant.

Have fun ^^

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Yeah it's arrogant, selfish and downright ignorant to wnat to play a game they paid for. Don't they appreciate that square enix will one day have the game working well enough for them to play? People say MMO launches are rocky, this is this MMO's second launch and it's lacking features EVERQUEST ONE HAD like 10+ years ago, like a functioning que system and afk kicking. To add salt the wound square enix are only interested in opening more servers at the moment so they can re-open their sales and take more people's money, helping people who have already paid is a second priority.

After how square enix has been doing for the last 5 or so years, do you really doubt that random passers by in this forum with IT and video game knowledge don't have better ideas than square enix about things?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riavan

Yeah it's arrogant, selfish and downright ignorant to wnat to play a game they paid for.

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So you cannot play then I take it? Even on a JP server? Please don't confuse "I can't play" with "I can't play on the server of my choice therefore I will bitch about it". Choices are available to you - up to you whether or not to take them. If you choose to spend "hours" trying to log in to a full server and getting mad, thats your choice. Or you could log into a JP server (I've had 0 issues, no queues, no 1017 on JP) and probably be further than your main character.