Online Store is Getting Worse!

$22 is a god sent to the people who would pay $18 twice just to mix and match the different outfits.

*cough* *cough*

What you should actually be upset about is how they can make pajamas look so god damn ugly and still have the nerve to charge $22

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Eh. Only affects those that choose to buy.

Choose.

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If certain outfits are purposely put on the online store because it's proven to be an effective source of monetization and therefore more outfits/items/mounts/emotes/etc are placed in the online store, I'm not sure how you can argue that it doesn't affect those that don't choose to buy.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

If certain outfits are purposely put on the online store because it's proven to be an effective source of monetization and therefore more outfits/items/mounts/emotes/etc are placed in the online store, I'm not sure how you can argue that it doesn't affect those that don't choose to buy.

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Because it's cosmetic and literally does nothing. There are tons of cosmetics that are free you can find in game. On top of all of that no one is forced to buy anything on the Mogstore. It's all 100% optional. I'm already bored of this conversation cause I am cemented in my thought process and I know other people are going to be cemented in theirs. I'm not going to change any minds so I'm bowing out of this.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Because it's cosmetic and literally does nothing. There are tons of cosmetics that are free you can find in game. On top of all of that no one is forced to buy anything on the Mogstore. It's all 100% optional. I'm already bored of this conversation cause I am cemented in my thought process and I know other people are going to be cemented in theirs. I'm not going to change any minds so I'm bowing out of this.

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My cool points went up when I bought some stuff on the store or got namingway minion from getting the lore book!

The real crime is they continue to release clothes for hrothgar and Viera that dont work for their heads.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

$22 is a god sent to the people who would pay $18 twice just to mix and match the different outfits.

*cough* *cough*

What you should actually be upset about is how they can make pajamas look so god damn ugly and still have the nerve to charge $22

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Right? It's easy to tell that people found it ugly as well, since this time almost nobody is wearing it in Limsa

So, neither Deveryn nor that viera have the capacity to explain what I asked. What a surprise. Neither of you have basic knowledge of what you're talking about, but have the gall to act condescending towards some people. I understand, I do. Being confidently wrong has it's uses, after all, like grifting ignorant people. Don't bother replying if you cannot answer how it is acceptable to sell a single cosmetic for a fraction of a triple-a.

Such projection.... :rolleyes:

Go read through the thread. We've been over this part. I'm not wasting my time on explaining this when you're being a prick about it. You won't be satisfied with the answer and will find some way to try and dismiss / discredit.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

The ball's on you to think you can talk about other people's finances. If you can't buy something; don't.

But don't go thinking you can tell me how to spend my hard earned money.

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I'm not your mommy. If you wanna waste your money, you don't need my permission.

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Originally Posted by Anura

So, neither Deveryn nor that viera have the capacity to explain what I asked. What a surprise. Neither of you have basic knowledge of what you're talking about, but have the gall to act condescending towards some people. I understand, I do. Being confidently wrong has it's uses, after all, like grifting ignorant people. Don't bother replying if you cannot answer how it is acceptable to sell a single cosmetic for a fraction of a triple-a.

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I mean should everything just cost 50 cents then? 10 cents maybe? Heck less than that if we're going by your logic. That outfit doesn't even make up 1% ofcthe ones in game therefore if we apply your logic they should be sold for pennies because that's the ratio.

You see how off that is?

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Originally Posted by Anura

So, neither Deveryn nor that viera have the capacity to explain what I asked.

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You can take a two-year-old to a market,
You can give them money, and let them spend it as they choose.
But no one has "the capacity to explain" economics to a two-year-old.

That old saying that there are no bad students, only bad teachers?
It's a lie, and a precurser to the everyone-gets-a-trophy culture.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I mean should everything just cost 50 cents then? 10 cents maybe? Heck less than that if we're going by your logic. That outfit doesn't even make up 1% ofcthe ones in game therefore if we apply your logic they should be sold for pennies because that's the ratio.

You see how off that is?

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I'm only trying to prove how the argument of time spent is mostly nonsense when it comes to digital products. A triple-a game has 100x the time and effort put into it compared to any single cosmetic in the mogstation, but it would be considered cheap if we compare the prices. No, the price is not "fair" for an item with infinite supply and no risk. The price will never plummet since you cannot flood the market, so the price that they set will be held unless no one buys it and they decide to cut it for a time.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Rambling.

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Do me a favour and keep your schizophrenic ramblings to yourself. This is a forum, if you're not in a mood to discuss, just close the tab.

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Originally Posted by Anura

I'm only trying to prove how the argument of time spent is mostly nonsense when it comes to digital products. A triple-a game has 100x the time and effort put into any single cosmetic in the mogstation, but it would be considered cheap if we compare the prices. No, the price is not "fair" for an item with infinite supply and no risk. The price will never plummet since you cannot flood the market, so the price that they set will be held unless no one buys it and they decide to cut it for a time.



Do me a favour and keep your schizophrenic ramblings to yourself. This is a forum, if you're not in a mood to discuss, just close the tab.

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Dude...let people spend their money the way they want. It's priced that way cause people buy it. If people didn't...you'd see a cut in price damn near instantly.

I don't like the prices and I think it's dumb too but I'm not about telling people how they should spend their money. If they want to do it...they ARE going to do it...and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

Relax man.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Dude...let people spend their money the way they want. It's priced that way cause people buy it. If people didn't...you'd see a cut in price damn near instantly.

I don't like the prices and I think it's dumb too but I'm not about telling people how they should spend their money. If they want to do it...they ARE going to do it...and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

Relax man.

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I know, I'm not policing anyone. There are people spending a hundred dollars on a house back on ESO and I've never said anything to them. Zenimax is selling overpriced shit, so I went after them, not that it made any difference. Now, if people decided to say it's fair, then yes, I'd argue it's not, but not because I'm strictly against cash shops. Hell, I bought a bunch of costumes off them, after all.

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

snip

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It's a virtual product with a set price that you CANNOT influence by offering more of the same. Square has complete and absolute control over it, so they can set whatever price they want just being careful to not completely extrapolate it. It's a unique item only available here, to people who play the live service game which has the objective of CONSTANTLY finding new players, when it's not on life support. Never will "everyone" have such item. It's even limited to a single character per purchase, not your account, and since, again, Square has complete control over it, it cannot break (unless they're utterly stupid). They can just use basic strategies like fomo. And no, it has no risk. The time and money that goes into making cosmetics is minimal and the profit is humongous. There are some videos of (valve?) employees talking about how little goes into making such items and how they're constantly making huge piles of cash. A risk is what Square took making that shitty Avengers game, which fell on their face.

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Originally Posted by Anura

I know, I'm not policing anyone. There are people spending a hundred dollars on a house back on ESO and I've never said anything to them. Zenimax is selling overpriced shit, so I went after them, not that it made any difference. Now, if people decided to say it's fair, then yes, I'd argue it's not, but not because I'm strictly against cash shops. Hell, I bought a bunch of costumes off them, after all.

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If you wanna debate fair prices...take it with the dev or Mogstation team then. Not us. You are changing no minds here.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

If you wanna debate fair prices...take it with the dev or Mogstation team then. Not us. You are changing no minds here.

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*reads the third line of your signature*
"But given time, horror fades, and repetition makes what was unthinkable now normal; the monstrous is made manageable. For mankind adapts to every horror."
You are right, everyone is free to spend their money however they like. I think loot boxes got a bad rap as well~! :^)

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

*reads the third line of your signature*
"But given time, horror fades, and repetition makes what was unthinkable now normal; the monstrous is made manageable. For mankind adapts to every horror."
You are right, everyone is free to spend their money however they like. I think loot boxes got a bad rap as well~! :^)

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Well people do still buy them. Look at every Fifa game ever. It's still a thing and very profitable.

Diablo Immortal too. Nothing but seething hatred people had for it and it made millions. Still does. Monthly.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Well people do still buy them. Look at every Fifa game ever. It's still a thing and very profitable.

Diablo Immortal too. Nothing but seething hatred people had for it and it made millions. Still does. Monthly.

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So it's okay if you can trick the population into accepting it? It worked for EA for a while, let's see if SE can beat the high score~!

Yet that is no excuse.
should we let the few that either do not have controll of their faculties for various reasons.
or those who have either way more than the majority[who are willing to spend] or the few who don't have anything but still spend. Dictate what happens to the companies.
No, we should not.

The question of whether they spend or not doesn't matter. they will spend no matter what.
[just like some spend on retainers when the devs should do better, and demand better on some things. -I have multiple- but would still ask]

And no one is asking them to stop either.
unless it's those clearly anti-consumer games/media<a few you mentioned> actually meant to be negative.

This is Simply[cut and dry/clean] wanting a better shop, to then spend more in said shop.

if anyone thinks SE, or any company would experience less profits due to these or any changes. doesn't understand how people are waiting.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

So it's okay if you can trick the population into accepting it? It worked for EA for a while, let's see if SE can beat the high score~!

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I know when I'm arguing with a wall. And I won't.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I know when I'm arguing with a wall. And I won't.

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Well, your argument was that if people are willing to spend an substantial amount of money compared to the price of the base product then there is no issue while my argument was that this mindset was not the norm but a result of large companies using underhanded practices to coerce people into spending money they normally would not. I was double checking to see if your argument was that this should be allowed because it's accepted? Many things that were accepted are now looked down on so your stance seems backwards. I don't see what's so hard to figure out but considering you just went "ur a wall" I doubt you can explain why selling a virtual item for a third of the base game's price is acceptable, lmao.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

We already know by SE's own admission that the monthly fee goes to server costs and then other departments in SE itself. Our monthly fee is paying for FF16. The mogstation gets sent back into FF14 itself.

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It can go any where. Point is if you don't pay you can't take part in the content. Same as if you won't buy the last expansion you can't take part in the new content. I don't say it need to be free just saying it is not.

I mean, these are optional cosmetics which have no bearing on gameplay so SE are in their rights to charge however much they seem is optimal so as to gain the maximum profits achievable.

Charge too high and less people will buy, denting profits, on the other hand charging too low also means losing out on profits if the buyers are going to purchase the item at a higher price anyway. Not to mention that with inflation, prices are going to increase as has happened with retail game prices. In fact, it's a miracle that the subscription cost has remained at $14.99 for 10 years after so long. If it was me, I would have increased the subscription cost to 20.99 by now to account for inflation.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

I mean, these are optional cosmetics which have no bearing on gameplay so SE are in their rights to charge however much they seem is optimal so as to gain the maximum profits achievable.

Charge too high and less people will buy, denting profits, on the other hand charging too low also means losing out on profits if the buyers are going to purchase the item at a higher price anyway. Not to mention that with inflation, prices are going to increase as has happened with retail game prices. In fact, it's a miracle that the subscription cost has remained at $14.99 for 10 years after so long. If it was me, I would have increased the subscription cost to 20.99 by now to account for inflation.

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It's not a miracle, it's thanks to the mogstation (and retainers). They have to stay competitive with other subscription services, so the majority of MMOs are going to hold onto that price point for a while longer. We might see an eventual increase by 1 or 2$, but definitely not 6$ Too many people would just drop out from that sudden jump.

Thing is, they started to unlock the genderlock on some of the mogstation gear, so I can't even say no to them outfit...
RIP my wallet :(

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Well, your argument was that if people are willing to spend an substantial amount of money compared to the price of the base product then there is no issue while my argument was that this mindset was not the norm but a result of large companies using underhanded practices to coerce people into spending money they normally would not. I was double checking to see if your argument was that this should be allowed because it's accepted? Many things that were accepted are now looked down on so your stance seems backwards. I don't see what's so hard to figure out but considering you just went "ur a wall" I doubt you can explain why selling a virtual item for a third of the base game's price is acceptable, lmao.

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Some people just keep trying to find excuses to justify it, but at this point they cant even find any excuse anymore, so they go like "lalalalala i cant hear"

So I ones more will ask the million dollars question.
Why you think it's ok that an item be it glam or mount worth more (by the price SE made) that any patch ever? Did any one worked more on a glam that one a raid? Or even a dungeon? Worked more that on all the in game gear sets we got in each patch? How you justify that?

wow just wow so many drama queens cussing and calling everyone a crook thats going to help alot don't hold your breath waiting for change to happen.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

So I ones more will ask the million dollars question.
Why you think it's ok that an item be it glsm or mount worth more (by the price SE made) that any patch ever? Did any one worked more on a glam that one a rsid? Or even a dungeon? Worked more that on all the in game gear sets we got in each patch? How you justify that?

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You are under the impression that glamours and mounts are created for the Mog Store for a Western audience. The reality is that many of those items are created for other markets first -- ones that do not pay a monthly subscription fee. The business unit in charge of those items is not directly under the control of the game's Producer. That business unit assesses the market and then tasks the game's art department with creating the item in-game.

From what little I've been able to glean, both South Korea and mainland China have a per-hour cost that, at least 8 years back, was the equivalent of about US10cents per hour of play. It is unclear whether they pay for expansions as a separate charge. Both South Korea and mainland China servers are entirely separate from the rest of the world. The companies that own and operate the servers provide localizations and customizations. Some of the items that first appeared on the Korean 'Mog Store' have migrated to our own Mog Stores -- the Street Attire set is one of those items.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

You are under the impression that glamours and mounts are created for the Mog Store for a Western audience. The reality is that many of those items are created for other markets first -- ones that do not pay a monthly subscription fee. The business unit in charge of those items is not directly under the control of the game's Producer. That business unit assesses the market and then tasks the game's art department with creating the item in-game.

From what little I've been able to glean, both South Korea and mainland China have a per-hour cost that, at least 8 years back, was the equivalent of about US10cents per hour of play. It is unclear whether they pay for expansions as a separate charge. Both South Korea and mainland China servers are entirely separate from the rest of the world. The companies that own and operate the servers provide localizations and customizations. Some of the items that first appeared on the Korean 'Mog Store' have migrated to our own Mog Stores -- the Street Attire set is one of those items.

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then sell them for like 5$ and now 99% of the non happy people are gone. i like it to be in game but this train leave long ago. you did not touched on the question i asked at all. so i ask one more time.
Why you think it's ok that an item be it glam or mount worth more (by the price SE made) that any patch ever? Did any one worked more on a glam that one a raid? Or even a dungeon? Worked more that on all the in game gear sets we got in each patch? How you justify that?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

You are under the impression that glamours and mounts are created for the Mog Store for a Western audience. The reality is that many of those items are created for other markets first -- ones that do not pay a monthly subscription fee. The business unit in charge of those items is not directly under the control of the game's Producer. That business unit assesses the market and then tasks the game's art department with creating the item in-game.

From what little I've been able to glean, both South Korea and mainland China have a per-hour cost that, at least 8 years back, was the equivalent of about US10cents per hour of play. It is unclear whether they pay for expansions as a separate charge. Both South Korea and mainland China servers are entirely separate from the rest of the world. The companies that own and operate the servers provide localizations and customizations. Some of the items that first appeared on the Korean 'Mog Store' have migrated to our own Mog Stores -- the Street Attire set is one of those items.

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So you are telling me that they can charge f2p prices because certain "nations" made SE bend at the knee and force them to not charge a monthly fee? That's just called screwing over your paying customers, but then again why change something that's acceptable? Now go out there and punch a [INSERT VILLIAN HERE]~!

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Originally Posted by Anura

I'm only trying to prove how the argument of time spent is mostly nonsense when it comes to digital products. A triple-a game has 100x the time and effort put into it compared to any single cosmetic in the mogstation, but it would be considered cheap if we compare the prices. No, the price is not "fair" for an item with infinite supply and no risk. The price will never plummet since you cannot flood the market, so the price that they set will be held unless no one buys it and they decide to cut it for a time.

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That's the rub though, Square Enix owns everything that goes into the game, including MogStation glamour items. They have the right to price their wares at whatever price they want, and assuming sales happen, then capitalism "is working as intended". They are hardly ignorant of pricing and sales and surely have the data telling them where the sweet spot is to maximize profits. There is no reason to price anything "fairly". It boils down to people buying it or not, continuing to play or not, engaging in X or not; all of which gives them data on future pricing.

And so far, the data clearly shows things are selling at the current price point.

It is irrelevant if it is digital or not- if the product is selling for a higher price, they'd be a fool to reduce the price and take money away from your company/shareholders/staff. They're not running a charity.

This is exactly why craptastic games/movies quickly move to DVD, and certain titles like Zelda for Switch still sell for around $70 in Japan, despite being a 2017 title.

..and yet other 2017 AAA games like Horizon Zero Dawn are going for about $20.00. (60% sale off from 40$ish on Steam atm..but then again it's been on sale like 5 times this year)

Both fantastic games..but well, there's a reason why Nintendo calls Zelda/Mariokart/Smash Bros "evergreen".

These companies all know where there sweet pricing spot is to maximize as much profit as they can get.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

That's the rub though, Square Enix owns everything that goes into the game, including MogStation glamour items. They have the right to price their wares at whatever price they want, and assuming sales happen, then capitalism "is working as intended". They are hardly ignorant of pricing and sales and surely have the data telling them where the sweet spot is to maximize profits.

It is irrelevant if it is digital or not- if the product is selling for a higher price, they'd be a fool to reduce the price and take money away from your company/shareholders/staff. They're not running a charity.

This is exactly why craptastic games/movies quickly move to DVD, and certain titles like Zelda for Switch still sell for around $70 in Japan, despite being a 2017 title.

..and yet other 2017 AAA games like Horizon Zero Dawn are going for about $20.00. (60% sale off from 40$ish on Steam atm..but then again it's been on sale like 5 times this year)

These companies all know where there sweet pricing spot is to maximize as much profit as they can get.

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Then they should not get upset when others pirate their software. Money is an issue to everyone, not just multimillion dollar companies so when they hold IPs hostage by turning games into a "live service" full of dlc and microtransactions then they should expect there will be pushback. It is nice seeing dev rants in the game files though, feels good when there are those out in the trenches that can still call a spade a spade even if they have to hide it in a .dat file, lol.

P.S. I hope they add denuvo to the switch games like nintendo is threatening to, I want to see what kind of hacky rigging denuvo will have to implement for switch carts~!

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

Why you think it's ok that an item be it glam or mount worth more (by the price SE made) that any patch ever? Did any one worked more on a glam that one a raid? Or even a dungeon? Worked more that on all the in game gear sets we got in each patch? How you justify that?

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This first question doesn't really make sense. The value of any patch varies from person to person and how long they remain subscribed during each cycle.

Did anyone work more on anything? Of course they did. If time is money, then the hours invested in pursuing one item or another easily exceed the value of a store item, though there's little comparison there as the items tend to be vastly different and it all comes down to personal taste. Everyone justifies purchases in their own way.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Then they should not get upset when others pirate their software. Money is an issue to everyone, not just multimillion dollar companies so when they hold IPs hostage by turning games into a "live service" full of dlc and microtransactions then they should expect there will be pushback. It is nice seeing dev rants in the game files though, feels good when there are those out in the trenches that can still call a spade a spade even if they have to hide it in a .dat file, lol.

P.S. I hope they add denuvo to the switch games like nintendo is threatening to, I want to see what kind of hacky rigging denuvo will have to implement for switch carts~!

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I mean, emulation and mods are always gonna be a thing. But it's hard to compare FFXIV as a game full of microtransactions/DLC like certain other games out there. There's nothing for sale in the MogStation that I couldn't just .dat swap if I really REALLY needed some glamour for the day. Outside of boosts/fantasia, I guess.

Conan Exiles is a good recent example of a wrong decision for in game shop that I'd happily mod my way around. Or maybe gacha games like Genshin Impact. Or the godawful mess that is Diablo Immortal.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I mean, emulation and mods are always gonna be a thing. But it's hard to compare FFXIV as a game full of microtransactions/DLC like certain other games out there. There's nothing for sale in the MogStation that I couldn't just .dat swap if I really REALLY needed some glamour for the day. Outside of boosts/fantasia, I guess.

Conan Exiles is a good recent example of a wrong decision for in game shop that I'd happily mod my way around. Or maybe gacha games like Genshin Impact. Or the godawful mess that is Diablo Immortal.

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Funny you mention Conan Exiles considering modders are doing the same thing to fix the devs mistakes with the new races, lmao. Also, it's a bit disingenuous to compare a f2p game like waifu impact to a monthly sub game like Final Fantasia XIV. Though the fact you can make comparisons to those two when it comes to cash shop stuff is a bit worrying!

Edit:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

But it's hard to compare FFXIV as a game full of microtransactions/DLC like certain other games out there.

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are you going to tell me that expansions packs are not dlc and the mogshop is not a key example of microtransactions? I just reread what you posted and I got a good chuckle at this gem, lol.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

This first question doesn't really make sense. The value of any patch varies from person to person and how long they remain subscribed during each cycle.

Did anyone work more on anything? Of course they did. If time is money, then the hours invested in pursuing one item or another easily exceed the value of a store item, though there's little comparison there as the items tend to be vastly different and it all comes down to personal taste. Everyone justifies purchases in their own way.

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one more mental dance i see. well have fun as long as you can befor people like you will make it so any thing is payed for.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

one more mental dance i see. well have fun as long as you can befor people like you will make it so any thing is payed for.

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I have nothing to do with it. This is the world we live in.

P.S. Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

P.S. Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.

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QUESTION:Why did the devs give the greenlight to make a 5 minute slice of life cutscene in game but put critical parts of XIV lore about the sundering in Babylon's Fall? :^D

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Some people just keep trying to find excuses to justify it, but at this point they cant even find any excuse anymore, so they go like "lalalalala i cant hear"

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Oddly enough? I've seen zero people here do that. It seems you're opting to use belittling tactics because not everyone agree with you. It's a common move you make here