Dark Knight Megathread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

What risk & reward? You have setup a theoretical that fights not only against itself, but also fights against an entire other role. You think a DRK would even be staying <50% for longer than a GCD or two for this to matter in any capacity? Especially in raids when the moment you hit <50% you're basically getting tetra/Essential/Lustrate thrown at you? It's not a risk & reward, it's literally a repeat of the issues plaguing Living Dead, where the ability is literally out of your control. And just like Living Dead, such an ability on a tank is just going to cause arguments, issues, etc from DRKs who want to max their damage and healers who are keeping them healthy. It's clunky, it fights against itself, it fights against an entire role, and it fights against the intention of a tank to mitigate damage by rewarding you not mitigating damage to enter <50% faster and longer.

But really, it's irrelevant anyway. There's literally no way in a thousand years they'd implement an ability like that. The most they've ever done with tying stuff to HP is various 'potency decreases as HP goes down.' attacks, one of which had that effect stripped from it in SHB (Upheaval). the 'decreases' potency bit even shows the devs understand how ludicrous it is for a tank to get any sort of reward from being in a state that's opposite what they're supposed to be.

---

If Disgussions are irrelevant and you fear arguments on any side, maybe you should reconsider visiting these Forums.

My idea is by no means flawless, i merely wish to make this a point of Disgussion to push things into a direction where Jobs only benefit from it, even if it means making one more difficult than the other, so instead of only shooting down ideas, try to provide one as well since you clearly seem to be dissatisfied with the current DRK as well.

Personally, i think my Idea, aside from maybe a few Potency adjustments that would be required, would work IF Living Dead gets a proper Rework, like for example, having only to be healed over 25-50% HP and during the duration of Walking Dead, the DRK would get a Lifesteal effect (or something else that allows the Job to heal up properly) that lasts just as long, so that you can get out of that State by yourself, maybe even at the cost of not being able to recieve Healing from other Sources other than your own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anhra

If Disgussions are irrelevant and you fear arguments on any side, maybe you should reconsider visiting these Forums.

My idea is by no means flawless, i merely wish to make this a point of Disgussion to push things into a direction where Jobs only benefit from it, even if it means making one more difficult than the other, so instead of only shooting down ideas, try to provide one as well since you clearly seem to be dissatisfied with the current DRK as well.

Personally, i think my Idea, aside from maybe a few Potency adjustments that would be required, would work IF Living Dead gets a proper Rework, like for example, having only to be healed over 25-50% HP and during the duration of Walking Dead, the DRK would get a Lifesteal effect (or something else that allows the Job to heal up properly) that lasts just as long, so that you can get out of that State by yourself, maybe even at the cost of not being able to recieve Healing from other Sources other than your own.

---

Theres the difference between suggestions and dreams. Saying that would be a great idea that Warrior would be able to shoot 800 potency fireballs from their arse during Inner Release (they are "releasing" after all from inside) window doesnt make the idea less ridiculous.

Theres no way that for a tank would be justified for them to get low to get damage bonus, a different thing would be that Tank self shielding/lifesteal becomes stronger when its at low HP.

Heck the idea would be horrible even on a dps job because either they become broken op or outright garbage because they would need to be low to not fall behind the rest of the dps, that dont have that issue, making the healers wanting to hire a hitman on them.


A reasonable sugestion is asking for example to let Monk to have a skin to hide their weapon, but to ask them to change the job so they dont use weapons since they are unarmed combat masters opens a huge can of worms if you have a job with something as crazy as not needing main weapon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anhra

If Disgussions are irrelevant and you fear arguments on any side, maybe you should reconsider visiting these Forums.

My idea is by no means flawless, i merely wish to make this a point of Disgussion to push things into a direction where Jobs only benefit from it, even if it means making one more difficult than the other, so instead of only shooting down ideas, try to provide one as well since you clearly seem to be dissatisfied with the current DRK as well.

Personally, i think my Idea, aside from maybe a few Potency adjustments that would be required, would work IF Living Dead gets a proper Rework, like for example, having only to be healed over 25-50% HP and during the duration of Walking Dead, the DRK would get a Lifesteal effect (or something else that allows the Job to heal up properly) that lasts just as long, so that you can get out of that State by yourself, maybe even at the cost of not being able to recieve Healing from other Sources other than your own.

---

Since when did I mention i was dissatisfied with current DRK? Current DRK is a good foundation atm, streamlining a lot of the clunkier systems of older DRK and I'm extremely looking forward to the new Dark Wave attack they have to see how it builds on the foundation. My only personal gripe with current DRK is Living Dead, something that is pretty much universal and I don't need to pitch a new idea for that. Literally copy-paste any of the other immunities and its fixed, DRK doesn't need some crazy flair with their immunity, it just needs a simple controllable function. I don't fear arguments, but there's a clear distinction between ideas that are clearly in line with the dev's history of design and make sense, and ideas that not go against what the devs have been doing for literally 4 expansions now, but also fight against the ideology of the role itself, fight against another role and fight against development history of homogenization. It's a public forum; you should be ready to have any idea you post scrutinized.

It's the nature of these discussions anyway; we can discuss all we like, but there's a reason the devs only listen to extremely broad statements, the average player has no experience in actual game design and balance in a professional environment when they create ideas. Let alone the devs even entertaining something that goes highly against their design philosophy of homogenizing the tanks and making them very casual and easy to pick up and play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Theres no way that for a tank would be justified for them to get low to get damage bonus

---

And yet we've seen exactly that kind of traits and accordant play in tanking situations far more frenetic than those of XIV, including even WoW's high-end Mythic+.

Yes, increased self-healing and self-shielding were often likewise increased, and certain healers in turn had increased healing to low health targets (be that by linear scalar with missing %HP or as a buff procced by healing a low HP target), so such traits were rarely the sole reason to play around low %HP--but with enough of the given trait stacked into one's build, it was still reason enough to do so.

It's not far-fetched; it's already been done and, frankly, done well, elsewhere.

The issue is merely to have a kit that allows you to actually play into that HP margining.

Let's say you have your Blood for Blood trait, from which your %throughput is increased by a portion of your missing %HP. If you want to deemphasize risky play somewhat, you need only cap those gains at 20% HP (80% missing HP), and if you don't want tiny amounts to seemingly play into it, you can do the same to the upper cap.

Add to that, say, a lower-iCD, passive variant of Living Dead by which you're temporarily able to go into negative HP when struck with fatal damage. Unlike its more homogenized counterparts, there'd be no actual immunity, but it'd still increase effective eHP and, more importantly, would allow more frequent safety in exploiting Blood for Blood.

And that's just the simplest idea by which you could support it. There's plenty more that could be done if you wanted to make a tank's HP bar actually interesting for a change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Theres the difference between suggestions and dreams. Saying that would be a great idea that Warrior would be able to shoot 800 potency fireballs from their arse during Inner Release (they are "releasing" after all from inside) window doesnt make the idea less ridiculous.

---

gestures to Dorgono in the Lv60 Solo Duty... Mnh, except that we have already seen a Warrior that throws around balls of fire...


Any way, here is a thought, to address the current argument... What if the Dark Knight gains from low HP, but does not necessarily need to remain low HP? It could be done as some thing like the Dark Knight gains some thing, could be a passive buff, a temporary effect, resource gain, a damage boost, a trigger to some thing else, that activates at a low HP %, but does not require that the Dark Knight remain at low HP, instead to be a effect with a independent duration...

I have my own extensive concept of blood magic for Dark Knight thought out, but let us start simple and stay on topic... instead of to shoot down Anhra's idea with heavy artillery, let us instead think of a way how it could work, even if that means to alter the function of the idea, while to still keep the spirit of the idea, such as with my above suggestion...

To be fair, all it'd take to have something that benefits from low HP without DRK feeling compelled to remain at that low HP level would be for that "something" to not break combos and be relatively bankable, similar to Bloodspiller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anhra

As a Tank in general, you have by the norm, 3 Buttons that serve to reduce incoming damage, as well as a "i cant die now - button". If Living Dead gets a proper Rework on this, i see no issues with the idea i mentioned. The Point of a Playstyle like this is to reward People knowing when to take a risk, and when you should not. And keep in mind that a DRK wont stay ever for long in that state of being low HP, since both Healers, as well as the boosted HP recovery from Soul Eater, will bring him eventually back to +50% HP. And if that trait proves to be too Overpowered regardless, Numbers can still be adjusted on the matter at hand.

---

This idea is absolutely ludicrous, and would cause nothing but problems outside of a static environment. DRK players will intentionally get hit and refuse to use CDs because they actively want to be below 50%. Likewise, your damage is not entirely dependent on another job. This literally makes the job unplayable in PF because random healers aren't going to let you sit at 50% or lower. Therefore, you'll always be weaker than the other tanks. There is reward in this playstyle because you can't control it. You're at the mercy of your healers. If they're not comfortable leaving you at low HP, then no damage buff for you. And if you try to force it, they'll heal you back up.

Everything about a system like this just screams griefing, both from the party and the DRK itself. It'd be an absolute mess.

Even if the damage buff remains after leaving the HP threshold is gonna be a nightmare to balance: Either the tank is too strong compared with the others or their HP needs to ping pong constantly (relying on healers and specific encounters to boot)to keep the damage bonus up and remain comparable with the other tanks which means bigger effort for the same reward

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Even if the damage buff remains after leaving the HP threshold is gonna be a nightmare to balance: Either the tank is too strong compared with the others or their HP needs to ping pong constantly (relying on healers and specific encounters to boot)to keep the damage bonus up and remain comparable with the other tanks which means bigger effort for the same reward

---

That's why i thought that adding a increased GCD on the basic Rotation would balance this out, since the DRK HAS to use it in order to get some of his lost HP back, hence the name "Last Resort". Maybe the entire Effect could also be only for the Basic Rotation (maybe even the AoE one as well) just to further keep it in check.

What would you guys think on the idea if it were that way?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anhra

That's why i thought that adding a increased GCD on the basic Rotation would balance this out, since the DRK HAS to use it in order to get some of his lost HP back, hence the name "Last Resort". Maybe the entire Effect could also be only for the Basic Rotation (maybe even the AoE one as well) just to further keep it in check.

What would you guys think on the idea if it were that way?

---

As I had post before, I would only be fine with a GCD extension, if the Dark Knight can take advantage of it, with double-weave as a constant.
It would feel too slow, on the other scale, while on the oGCD weave side, Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam and the occasional CD, is not good enough to solve what would be my problem with it.

That said.. it would be a bad idea to use actions like Blood Weapon, while this theoretical GCD extension effect is active, unless actions like that, of which only trigger by GCD Spells and WeaponSkills, would instead also trigger from abilities, which are almost always oGCD, and oGCD Spells and WeaponSkills.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b2X0AYsPzf.jpg

derp formatting.

The Stormblood one should have been filled with tile upon tile of Dark Arts.

Shadowbringers was supposed to be our expansion...

https://c.tenor.com/jNzyLSukKuEAAAAC...-star-wars.gif

I need some help thinking about how to decouple ourselves from Dark Warrior.

I already said before the idea of restoring 6000 MP AND halving MP Costs for a set time for Delirium. Thinking about it, DRK needs more interactivity that isn’t tied down to one skill or something - that was part of what made it great in HW. Returning Scourge would only make a divergence, at a minimum - but I don’t know how to work around the Blood Gauge. It requires no management at all a majority of the time sans BW overcapping.

I just need an idea that can add more interaction with DRK’s kit without convoluting it or keeping it to 123.

That meme hit so hard, it's literally perfect but damm the pain is strong.

PD: i love how much ppl agree with the meme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

I need some help thinking about how to decouple ourselves from Dark Warrior.

I already said before the idea of restoring 6000 MP AND halving MP Costs for a set time for Delirium. Thinking about it, DRK needs more interactivity that isn’t tied down to one skill or something - that was part of what made it great in HW. Returning Scourge would only make a divergence, at a minimum - but I don’t know how to work around the Blood Gauge. It requires no management at all a majority of the time sans BW overcapping.

I just need an idea that can add more interaction with DRK’s kit without convoluting it or keeping it to 123.

---

Mnh.. here is one of my own ideas, a small piece of what I have written down in a pet project to re-invent Dark Knight...

Delirium could be SB Delirium but more weak, to deal with SB Delerium's issue of it would generate too much MP, while I had the thought to add to it, a addition that matches the definition of "Delirium"... as for BlackBlood...BlackBlood Gauge and BlackBlood resource could go from puddle deep to pond deep, by means of to make more WeaponSkills and Spells cost BlackBlood points, at a cost lower than 50 BlackBlood points, and have more actions generate BlackBlood points.

Then... Have some actions that cost BlackBlood resource, to generate MP, and actions that cost MP, to generate BlackBlood, along with spenders that just spend one, or spend both. I also had the thought that Dark Knight should regain the old DarkSide effect that turns off natural MP regeneration, and blocks MP restoration from other sources, so that the Dark Knight gains and restores MP only from their own actions, to make the restore-and-spend balance require more thought to maintain it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyth

The Stormblood one should have been filled with tile upon tile of Dark Arts.

---

nah. really analyze the formatting.

in HW it wasn't as rigid and strict, so the icons are all askew.
SB attempted to remedy that, hence why all the squares are evenly aligned, and yet the main focus of the kit wasn't as rigid as it's peers, and SB Delirium being the one outlier is the only square not set right.
ShB is really the "get in line with the rest" expac. Cant do it's own thing, might as well just copy someone else.

Man Dark Knight needs a rework so bad. I feel like it's only unique thing is still TBN.

I'm surprised it still needs to keep up Darkside given BLM and DRG no longer have to keep up BotD or Eno-chan.

That meme is spot-on. HW DRK was the best DRK. Man alternating between DD+DP and Abyssal Drain God mode was the hypest shit in dungeon runs.

Dodge Tank was legit.

DRK really should be the only tank with a lifesteal mechanic (not sure why warrior has it) and DRK delirium release needs to be removed in place of self sustain because DRK feels like an off-shoot of warrior with poor execution. Its so half baked and was ignored despite being the poster job and more buffs given to warrior for no reason. I want to play an actual dark knight, not shitty warrior with some spooky effects.

Side note: Warrior is literally defined as a brain dead job, reward people for knowing their jobs and taking on extra complexity, not punish them

I am new DRK player and generally new FF XIV player. Been playing since 2 months so my opinion comes from someone new who didn't see ever previous HW or SB or any other version of DRK before:

1. I absolutely had no issues below 70 lvl to tank. I didn't even know TBN exists and I never had problem being main tank. Between lifesteal, enemy damage reduction, 2x skills for my personal damage reduction I never had issues with staying alive, not even on trash Wall to Wall pull. At worst I had to pop all my dmg reduction skills and focus on max AOE damage with BW + Flood spam. Of coursse once I got TBN I had easier time :).

2. I personally love his kit and I love Delirium combo, becasue I enjoy doing one big burst and whenever that's 5 different skills to spam or 1 skill spammed 5x times - doesn't matter. I like Bloodspiller spam and I like having a lot of OGCDs to burn during my burst rotation. Also I like that tanks don't have so many combos/rotations as DPSes.

3. Living Shadow is cool, but it would be much cooler if he was mimicking what I am doing instead of doing his own stuff. But I like that's it's "Press and it works" instead of another thing to micromanage.

However, I have issues with DRK, and those are issues I feel as DRK player, not comparing to other tanks as I didn't play them:

1. Living Dead is just bad. It's very very bad. Unless I play with bene White Mage who ON TOP of that knows what Living Dead is and can find icon next to me and be fast enough to cast bene - I die 8/10 times I use it without Discord. It's design is just bad and I don't know who thought overcomplicating simple tank ability like that is good idea.

2. OGCDs could be little faster, just for the sake of fun.

3. Blood Weapon needs either 5 charges or extended duration. You have to precisely use it as 2nd GCD to be able to squeeze 5th weaponskill in for MP.

4. Salted Earth needs to do something for DRK. It can be MP regen when you stand it it. It can be lifesteal when you attack enemies while standing it it. It can be damage reduction where you stand in it.

5. Dark Mind changed to just 15% all damage reduction. I am sure that Dark Mind is awesome when you know 100% than big damage coming is magical. But since FF XIV gives no info about that - it's just useless for your average player. Same with Dark Messiah - just make it flat 10% reduction for your party members, not DRK. This will give him nice support ability without benefits for him.

6. Abyssal Drain needs to be either 30s or have it's Potency higher becasue it's Potency is not worth it's 60s cooldown.

7. Some abilities needs to be moved to lower lvls:

a) TBN needs to have weaker version on levels 30+. Like "The Dark Night" and be it 15% barrier, that upgrades to TBN
b) Second AOE needs to be available on level 50.


However I can't stress it enough: THE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN is change Living Dead. Just this will fix 8/10 problems with DRK. Just make it normal invul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benn

I can't stress it enough: THE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN is change Living Dead. Just this will fix 8/10 problems with DRK. Just make it normal invul.

---

although you bring some very nice points to the discussion, and you bring a fresh perspective of someone who played SHB DRK without the older context, I'll never understand this narrative that's been going around, in which people claim that fixing Living Dead will somehow magically solve all of DRK problems. you just stated 7 equally valid complaints that cover a wide range of issues, from AD potency to BW timing, to TBN at lower levels (a MUCH needed change), and yet you also say that fixing LD will somehow make all of these other problems more bearable?

I'm not saying that people shouldn't ask for a fix to LD (that skill needed an overhaul on release, or at least a visual aid for the party)
but fixing a broken invuln will not fix the atrocious leveling placement, the butchered and disjointed kit, nor will it somehow return to us the resource management playstyle that was robbed from us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bundythenoob

although you bring some very nice points to the discussion, and you bring a fresh perspective of someone who played SHB DRK without the older context, I'll never understand this narrative that's been going around, in which people claim that fixing Living Dead will somehow magically solve all of DRK problems. you just stated 7 equally valid complaints that cover a wide range of issues, from AD potency to BW timing, to TBN at lower levels (a MUCH needed change), and yet you also say that fixing LD will somehow make all of these other problems more bearable?

I'm not saying that people shouldn't ask for a fix to LD (that skill needed an overhaul on release, or at least a visual aid for the party)
but fixing a broken invuln will not fix the atrocious leveling placement, the butchered and disjointed kit, nor will it somehow return to us the resource management playstyle that was robbed from us.

---

To make it more clear of what I meant: I know there are numerous of things that could use tweaks when it comes to DRK kits.

However those things (the 7 complaints you mentioned that I stated) are not essentially broken. They need tweaks. Absolutely, but - Delirium is not broken. It's great burst/DPS window. People just dislike it's long cooldown, spam and "time pressure" to get all 5 bloodsplitters in. However, it's not broken. It works, even if akward for some. It also does it job - being DPS burst.

Same with for example Dark Mind - it works, it does it job. It's could be better, but it's not broken. It reduces magical damage, fine, it does that. Abyssal Drain could use more CD or potency. Yes, but it still does what it does - AOE dmg and heal.

However, all those skills do not punish player for using them. And all of them do what they are suppose to do.

However - Living Dead does not do it's job. In 8/10 cases instead of SAVING a tank from death (which is it's supposed job as other tanks invluns), it just makes it occur 10s after. And that's not what you want from clutch skill. People rely on you as tank to survive, they think you can use your skill in time to buy extra time for party without dying. Like when one healer is dead and other healer is rising him - every other tank can pop his Invul and survive incoming Tankbuster/damage for enough time so healers can regroup, get back to game. Living Dead however DEPENDS on healer. It's pretty much not a tank ability, but tank/healer ability. Instead of draning tank cooldown and tank resources so tank can survive, it trains both tank resources, healer resources and it's a skill that makes both tank and healer work around it.

So that's why I think Living Dead is the most important step out of other steps. If tomorrow you would ask me if I wanted fixes to 7 abilities vs one fix to make LD a normal invul - I would take LD fix in hearbeat. Becasue it's the only one DRK ability that does not do what it's supposed to do and it's more of problem than help.

Alo you saying "Btuchered and disjointed kit" but that's your opinion. I like current kit, I like abilities, I like DRK overall. I would only tweak abilities that he already has. I do not believe he needs any more serious rework.

So out of all those tweaks - I think fixing Living Dead is most important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benn

So that's why I think Living Dead is the most important step out of other steps. If tomorrow you would ask me if I wanted fixes to 7 abilities vs one fix to make LD a normal invul - I would take LD fix in hearbeat. Becasue it's the only one DRK ability that does not do what it's supposed to do and it's more of problem than help .

---

respectable opinion.

I can only say that in my opinion, tweaking the abilities so we use them more often and rearranging the leveling kit so we aren't stuck without tools that other tanks have at lower levels would do much more to boost the overall enjoyment out of DRK than to rework its invuln. As much as I would love a rework to LD, I'd MUCH rather get stalwart pre 50, a baby TBN pre 50, BW timing fixes, and much more. as much as I dislike Delirium as well, I wouldn't mind if it at least rewarded us with more mana to play with.

the problem might lie in the fact that we get free mana regen ticks now.

what if Darkside gave us a haste buff rather than damage, but locked us out of mana regen ticks? to make up for the lack of ticks then we could put more power into mana regen via our abilities akin to older DRK playstyle but without destroying the current kit. if that was done, then Blood Weapon, Stalwart, Delirium, and maybe even Carve and Spit could regen more than 600mp per attack. the reason I call it disjointed and butchered is not because the abilities don't work, but rather because the abilities that are supposed to be for "resource gathering" lack impact. this would also give us back that missing 10% damage by allowing us to use our abilities more often, which is something we both want out of current DRK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benn

Alo you saying "Btuchered and disjointed kit" but that's your opinion. I like current kit, I like abilities, I like DRK overall. I would only tweak abilities that he already has. I do not believe he needs any more serious rework.

---

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

It's alright when a new player gives their opinion, it's a fresh breath of air. That said, I think DRK is literally just boring, and you can't fix boring by elevating it's inception even more. We will never return to HW DRK but that's alright, whatever they decide to do at this point I hope they find better ideas for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxcel

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

---

To say DRK is a carbon copy of WAR is an overstatement, which should die if people want to make their complaint valid and reasonable. Complaints like these only make it more likely to be dismissed, especially when that complaints are based on seniority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxcel

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

---

I apologize for my bluntness but I know what I like. WAR might be smilliar on mechanical level, but I love DRK for a flavour, for his darkness, aesthetics and theme. And if you say he is simillar to WAR - that's great becasue WAR is second tank I want to level so I like I wont' have to learn whole new everything on him. And as I said - I do not dwell in past experience as I have none. Was old DRK better? Maybe. Or maybe he was not. I will never know. And so won't any new DRK player ever since release of ShB. But as a new player I like simplicity of tanks and I don't need them more complicatated. You can if you want call me casual even, and you are right, at my age now I am casual.

I think it's been years since DRK rework so instead of wishing DRK to come back to his "older days" we should focus on fixing what he has now. Becasue obviously FF team is happy in how he plays now so I don't think you can expect any more major reworks of him considering in EW they are just tweaking what he already have to be smoother to use + add new stuff on that foundation.

So In my opinion - let's try to make current DRK better and not trying to make new DRK, as that is unlikely to happen. So lets maybe at least try to focus on single important things like Fixing Living Dead, Dark Mind, Dark Messiah and lower level abilities and then work from there. I think you can expect more success here than in wishing for total rework.

Again, that's my opinion and I respect yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxcel

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

---

Once again proving that some DRK posters over here are a bunch of gatekeeping drama queens. But please keep crying about a job design that will never come back.

Making a new DRK would make DRK better. They aren't doing that though.

DRK tidbit from the recent LL does state:

The recast of Delirium will be changed to 60 seconds and roughly three weaponskills can be executed during its duration. Additionally, the range of Plunge will be increased by 5 yalms, and a new single-target defensive buff separate from The Blackest Night will be added.

Which what concerns me is the bolded. Which means outside of GNB having their full Renzokuken combo all Tanks are getting their burst phases nerfed from 5 attacks to 3.

In addition the only real thing DRK's are getting is a Salted Earth attack, a new AoE darkside attack and TBN for a party member separate from TBN itself. And big concerns like Living Dead are promptly ignored.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/443994

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

Once again proving that some DRK posters over here are a bunch of gatekeeping drama queens. But please keep crying about a job design that will never come back.

---

May i ask how?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aword3213

To say DRK is a carbon copy of WAR is an overstatement, which should die if people want to make their complaint valid and reasonable. Complaints like these only make it more likely to be dismissed, especially when that complaints are based on seniority.

---

Unfortunately, that "meme" can not die unless DRK and WAR are getting real unique designs!

Currently, we have Delirium as a inferior Inner Release, and this will not change in EW. On the contrary, for what we have seen in the job trailer, Delirium and IR are going to operate even MORE similar than before! SE confirmed that both will give 3 stacks of free beast and blood gauge weaponskills. At least today, IR negates the cost for Onslaught and Upheaval, yet that's going to be removed anyway. The only difference will be critDH for WAR and a tiny bit of MP for DRK.
Blood Weapon is also an inferior Infuriate with high risk thx to its low duration and sensitivity to high ping, which makes BW for many "offshore" peeps unrealiable. Infuritate is also on the charge system and gets its CD reduced after every beast gauge weaponskill. Blood Weapon's "unique" trait is its (up to) 3k MP you get from it for 1 Edge or Flood vs Infuriate's trait to overwrite Fell Cleave with Inner Chaos (and aoe counterpart).
In ShB, DRKs CDs are also more awkward than WAR, thx to its 60s BW burst + 90s Delirium, while WAR only has 90s Inner Release. Tho, this will soon be a thing of the past, as most CDs are going to be adjusted to 60s.

Blood Gauge in general is also similar - if not identical - to Beast Gauge. And as I said above, Onslaught and Upheaval are going to have their costs removed, so that statement is not far off. GCD gauge generation - while slightly different - is generated in the same matter and in 10 point steps. Compare that to other jobs or roles, there are plenty that generate 5 and/or 10 points for certain actions, but WAR and DRK are both limited to 10/20 pts.
Also soon to be homogenised: Onslaught on charges instead of gauge cost, 3 charges, very similar to Plunge with its soon 20y range. Whether those 3 charges vs 2 charges really make a difference is debateable, but for certain, not unique!

Let's ingore roles actions (and actions such as Shadowwall/Vengeance and Grit/Defiance) for now, and there are still at least 50% of DRK actions that are copy and paste actions from WAR sprinkled with different visuals and theme - and your characteristic of DRK having risky, low reward actions (Blood Weapon, old Darkside, DA Dark Mind etc.).

The "DRK is a WAR clone"-thing is not just a meme, it describes the state DRK is currently in!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

The recast of Delirium will be changed to 60 seconds and roughly three weaponskills can be executed during its duration. Additionally, the range of Plunge will be increased by 5 yalms, and a new single-target defensive buff separate from The Blackest Night will be added.

---

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

Nah I'm pretty sure Delirium is on a 60 second recast period. Only abilities confirmed to have charges so far for tanks is gap closer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benn

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

---

You just described Warrior! WAR gets a finisher move after Inner Release, DRK does not. DRK "finisher" oder follow-up move is probably triggered by Edge, but that's not yet confirmed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benn

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

---

Per the translation

Additionally, the recast of Inner Release will be changed to 60 seconds. Because this increases how often it can be used, it will also be changed so that roughly three weaponskills can be executed during its duration.

That will same thing minus the crit and direct hit im afraid. From what it seems to me skill speed may not be needed for war and drk if this is the case( assuming here)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Nah I'm pretty sure Delirium is on a 60 second recast period. Only abilities confirmed to have charges so far for tanks is gap closer.

---

Wait a second, are you seriously complaining about stuff without knowing how things work currently?

Delirium is currently a 90sec CD. I'll point you to the job guide if you want to learn DRK skills : https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/darkknight/ .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Nah I'm pretty sure Delirium is on a 60 second recast period. Only abilities confirmed to have charges so far for tanks is gap closer.

---

In any way that does not mean nerf especially if other OGCDs will be changed which we dont know. Having burst windows more often is definitely more engaging than having it only once per 90s and then spam 3 combo only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Benn

In any way that does not mean nerf especially if other OGCDs will be changed which we dont know. Having burst windows more often is definitely more engaging than having it only once per 90s and then spam 3 combo only.

---

It also means an increase in DPS as your own burst will naturally line up with raid CD every time now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

It also means an increase in DPS as your own burst will naturally line up with raid CD every time now.

---

Yup. We dont know all changes yet, we dont know if they tweaked cooldowns and potency numbers etc. It's too early to call anything nerf without knowing all picture.

My biggest hope is they will fix Living Dead...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

It also means an increase in DPS as your own burst will naturally line up with raid CD every time now.

---

Not necessarily, from the screenshoted tooltips from SMN and RPR, we can assume, many 180s->120s burst buffs have been nerfed from 5% to 3%; even tho RPR is new, the numbers are suspiciously identical.