FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

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Originally Posted by EirolOcarrol

I haven't come across a single instance of what people are calling "toxic casualism". While I've seen plenty of elitism.

Including in this thread itself.

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Toxic casualism is essentially the opposite of elitism: players who feel entitled to rewards, content and everything they want without putting in any effort relative to everyone else. The healer who refuses to DPS because "I'm a healer! It's the DPS' job to deal damage!" is the easiest example of this. Here you have someone actively contributing less than half the workload of everyone else while still expecting the same rewards. Players throw around elitism claims when in a Savage PF because other members point out their repeatedly mistakes or low damage, no matter how polite are such examples.

Delubrum Reginae's entire existence is rife with toxic casualisms as players are too lazy to farm or purchase fragments yet want to benefit off the players who do; even joining their speed PFs and getting upset when someone calls them out despite the party being expressively made with the intent everyone is running Essences and Lost actions.

At the very least the game should be Fun overall.

For dungeons, spamming a aoe and doing half a mechanic isn’t fun

For trials, having echo minimize the effort isn’t fun when the party wiped. Essentially giving them a free ride for not knowing mechs or their own rotations

For 24 mans due to the weight of the group not being as balanced as Ivalice, you can essentially afk for most of it and not dam the party which is just plain toxic Casulism if it happens but ultimately not fun.

Overall the game could do better to challenge, which is one of the pinnacles of game design. Without it, the game is just a samey sightseeing tour

Toxic Casualism? No It's the elitists who are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Toxic Casualism? No It's the elitists who are wrong.

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It’s not a contest, they are both wrong.

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Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Amidst all the back-and-forth about how players should spend time getting better at the game and how long grinds are completely reasonable, what is lost is that Yoshi P designed this game to be casual, family-friendly, and inclusive.
.

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I tell you that I've seen players in NN act elitist. Its crazy!

this was one morning for me (bear with me)

Log in ... duty finder...MSQ lvl 50... no chatting in NN - (it was on)

out of the blue

OH MY GOD! People need to use materia! I'm so tired of people not optimizing their gear! People need to start doing this!
--chaos ensues--

He rambled how players need to listen to him when he parties because he wants everyone to do that extra 5 bits of dmg per swing to shave off 10 seconds off the WHOLE encounter.

I said to the guy...well here's the thing...

if they don't care to, leave it be. IF they aren't asking for help, leave it be. This dude exploded. all for what? Sure i understand the "want" to help other players but if they aren't thinking about it, you aren't going to necessarily get them to care.

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Originally Posted by Necrogen

I tell you that I've seen players in NN act elitist. Its crazy!

this was one morning for me (bear with me)

Log in ... duty finder...MSQ lvl 50... no chatting in NN - (it was on)

out of the blue

OH MY GOD! People need to use materia! I'm so tired of people not optimizing their gear! People need to start doing this!
--chaos ensues--

He rambled how players need to listen to him when he parties because he wants everyone to do that extra 5 bits of dmg per swing to shave off 10 seconds off the WHOLE encounter.

I said to the guy...well here's the thing...

if they don't care to, leave it be. IF they aren't asking for help, leave it be. This dude exploded. all for what? Sure i understand the "want" to help other players but if they aren't thinking about it, you aren't going to necessarily get them to care.

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Yeah like doing a 69 dungeons undergeared, those damn elitist that dares saying that you need better gear !
You really have no shame have you lmao.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Toxic Casualism? No It's the elitists who are wrong.

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Idk about this, I've yet to see an "Elitist" writing a 50 page doctoral dissertation with accompanying graphics and powerpoint on why people should adjust to their and their gaming preferences only because they are the big good and yours is big smelly doo doo bad one.

Most often than not, "Elitists" will just kick you from their party and blacklist you if your gaming preferences are not in accordance with that of the group, and both you and them will be able to carry on with your merry lives.

One approach is more mature than the other.

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Originally Posted by Necrogen

I tell you that I've seen players in NN act elitist. Its crazy!

this was one morning for me (bear with me)

Log in ... duty finder...MSQ lvl 50... no chatting in NN - (it was on)

out of the blue

OH MY GOD! People need to use materia! I'm so tired of people not optimizing their gear! People need to start doing this!
--chaos ensues--

He rambled how players need to listen to him when he parties because he wants everyone to do that extra 5 bits of dmg per swing to shave off 10 seconds off the WHOLE encounter.

I said to the guy...well here's the thing...

if they don't care to, leave it be. IF they aren't asking for help, leave it be. This dude exploded. all for what? Sure i understand the "want" to help other players but if they aren't thinking about it, you aren't going to necessarily get them to care.

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That does seem a bit extreme for them to go off like they did, if this did indeed happen. As far as materia use goes, my opinion is that it is thrown at people left and right. There's not really a good reason NOT to slot one's gear with it. It's basically free stats/damage if done right. So I agree with the point they were trying to make, but not necessarily with what was allegedly said or how they handled it. No one is obligated to listen to anyone else, no matter who they are. Even if someone is giving good advice...if they're a jerk, then to me it doesn't really matter. I would tune them out and fact check them later. Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That does seem a bit extreme for them to go off like they did, if this did indeed happen. As far as materia use goes, my opinion is that it is thrown at people left and right. There's not really a good reason NOT to slot one's gear with it. It's basically free stats/damage if done right. So I agree with the point they were trying to make, but not necessarily with what was allegedly said or how they handled it.

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the issue is the attitude. Pushing it on others isn't exactly what you do. Again, the player should want to add materia. I tell peeps not to invest if they are zooming through the content. They replace their gear anyway. I haven't used any yet. When i reach the end of endwalker, i may use them.

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Originally Posted by Necrogen

the issue is the attitude. Pushing it on others isn't exactly what you do. Again, the player should want to add materia. I tell peeps not to invest if they are zooming through the content. They replace their gear anyway. I haven't used any yet. When i reach the end of endwalker, i may use them.

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Oh yeah, tone is everything. And at this point I really don't see as much of a point in melding. They were making a scene over something that is, at this point, fairly trivial. In about a week it's not really going to matter until the next level cap. I still stand by what I said though. It's free damage. :p Maybe not a lot, but it all adds up when everyone contributes.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

That's debattable. FFXIV offers Savage content. Clearly the developers enjoy creating more complex content.

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Savage might be more challenging than most of the other content in the game but it is still casual content.

You don't have to no-life raiding to get through all 4 bosses before the next 4 are released. You just need a few hours a week along with a solid grasp of your job and ability to recognize/react to fight mechanics.

The best players will clear the content faster, of course, but they're not the only ones capable of clearing it while it's current.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Savage might be more challenging than most of the other content in the game but it is still casual content.

You don't have to no-life raiding to get through all 4 bosses before the next 4 are released. You just need a few hours a week along with a solid grasp of your job and ability to recognize/react to fight mechanics.

The best players will clear the content faster, of course, but they're not the only ones capable of clearing it while it's current.

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I have played plenty of mmo's, most of the big ones and I don't remember a single one that would fit your description in the last 10 years or longer.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Idk about this, I've yet to see an "Elitist" writing a 50 page doctoral dissertation with accompanying graphics and powerpoint on why people should adjust to their and their gaming preferences only because they are the big good and yours is big smelly doo doo bad one.

Most often than not, "Elitists" will just kick you from their party and blacklist you if your gaming preferences are not in accordance with that of the group, and both you and them will be able to carry on with your merry lives.

One approach is more mature than the other.

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r/whoosh

10inc.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Savage might be more challenging than most of the other content in the game but it is still casual content.

You don't have to no-life raiding to get through all 4 bosses before the next 4 are released. You just need a few hours a week along with a solid grasp of your job and ability to recognize/react to fight mechanics.

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So genuine question here, but is that how you'd define hardcore content? Needing to "no life" to clear one tier before the next?

Does a game like that even exist? I mean I won't be surprised if the answer is yes but like...

Idk I just feel like the whole casual vs hardcore debate is kinda silly when there are so many, apparently wildly different, opinions on what "hardcore" and "casual" actually mean. @OP does anyone even actually believe this is a hardcore game? Is literally anyone unironically expecting "Savage" level performance from random pugs outside of Savage content (and genuinely believing that's a reasonable expectation)? I mean I'm certain there are some out there who do, but I sure hope it's not a huge number of people.

Expecting people to put in any level of effort at all to go beyond the absolute bare minimum in multiplayer content =/= being elitist.

For me any player that play more than one hour in a game, is not casual gamer, a casual game you spend 10, 20 minutes of gameplay, suchs cellphones games. For me 14 have content for everyone, and locking players progression is not ok. Everyone should be able to do any content soon ir later than others.

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Originally Posted by Fellgon

For me any player that play more than one hour in a game, is not casual gamer, a casual game you spend 10, 20 minutes of gameplay, suchs cellphones games. For me 14 have content for everyone, and locking players progression is not ok. Everyone should be able to do any content soon ir later than others.

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I'd say IMO playing a game less than 20 hours a week is casual. This would amount to less than 2 hours per day provided it was played every day but basically makes allowances for non active days. Playing more than that is where you'd start crossing a threshold. To me casual and hardcore are still terms denoting the amount of time someone spends playing a game and has no actual bearing on someone's skill level or aptitude playing the game. There are players that play the game 40+ hours a week that spend a majority of boss fights face down on the floor and players that play the game an hour or 2 a couple days a week that clear ultimate trials and any other content they run without issue.

i have a sugestion for "hardcore" players: lets clear this game in old 80's way: first you must master the art of kanji writing for any final fantasy game (cant play game in english), after that, you clear the story till savage, then you cant see any youtube guide neither ff14 magazines to help you (if it still exist), after you clear savage in japanese, you must progress to ultimate in "dark souls" style, if you wipe once, you lose 10 or more levels of the job... if wipe twice, you lose level and some materia...and so on. The creativity for dificulty never ends.:p

A professional of the phisical education, is casual for games as mutch a gamer who dont exercise mutch is casual to gym.

Surely FFXIV is made for whoever is down with the content they are making.
Or is this a "reclaim the past" kind of whistle? I am getting that kind of vibe from some people in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Savage might be more challenging than most of the other content in the game but it is still casual content.

You don't have to no-life raiding to get through all 4 bosses before the next 4 are released. You just need a few hours a week along with a solid grasp of your job and ability to recognize/react to fight mechanics.

The best players will clear the content faster, of course, but they're not the only ones capable of clearing it while it's current.

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No Savage isn't casual whatsoever. It takes time to gear up and learn the mechanics appropriately. It's not a trip to the bathroom.

The reason "casuals" suck is because they're throwing hissy fits when anyone is better than them. Much to their irony, it takes effort to get there and that's why they suck.

Get real. Not everyone is a braindead idiot that wants shit to be handed on a silver platter to them. I very much respect and appreciate when a game treats me like an adult with sophisticated interests.

As for FFXIV.. it offers multiple challenges and battle content isn't necessarily restricted to casual content. The Ishgard Restoration proved dedication is rewarded. In fact, I managed to score there too, albeit not far.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

So genuine question here, but is that how you'd define hardcore content? Needing to "no life" to clear one tier before the next?

Does a game like that even exist? I mean I won't be surprised if the answer is yes but like...

Idk I just feel like the whole casual vs hardcore debate is kinda silly when there are so many, apparently wildly different, opinions on what "hardcore" and "casual" actually mean. @OP does anyone even actually believe this is a hardcore game? Is literally anyone unironically expecting "Savage" level performance from random pugs outside of Savage content (and genuinely believing that's a reasonable expectation)? I mean I'm certain there are some out there who do, but I sure hope it's not a huge number of people.

Expecting people to put in any level of effort at all to go beyond the absolute bare minimum in multiplayer content =/= being elitist.

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I bolded an important part of what you said - these discussions are pretty silly when most games are casual entertainment played for leisure and relaxation. They're played to have fun. You don't have to be the best at something to have fun.

Player communities can't even agree about what is "casual" and what is "hardcore". Sometimes I wonder if the words they're looking for are "amateur" and "professional".

I agree it's not unreasonable to expect people to put in a minimum of effort in multiplayer content. The problem is part of the community has unreasonable expectations for what should be considered minimum of effort. They expect others to be 90th percentile quality in content that only requires 20th percentile effort to clear. They expect others to speed run the content so they can get to grinding out the next bit that much faster.

It is unreasonable to expect random players you encounter to meet those standards in content that does not demand that type and level of performance.

The test of whether or not someone is performing to a reasonable standard is whether the content can be cleared with all members performing at the same level. How do we know it's unreasonable for someone to AFK through Praetorium? Because if everyone was AFK, the content would not be cleared. How do we know it's unreasonable to only auto-attack through Castrum Abania? Because if everyone was auto-attacking, the content would not be cleared.

Tank isn't chain pulling wall to wall? That's fine. You don't have to pull wall to wall to clear the content.

Healer doesn't want to be green DPS? That's fine. As long as the healer is keeping the rest of the group alive, their DPS isn't needed to clear the content.

If someone wants the members of their party to all meet a certain standard, then they should be be pre-forming the party before they queue (like one would do for Savage where those things do start to matter). If you're going to use Duty Finder's random matchmaking, expect a random result. Expecting anything else is unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

No Savage isn't casual whatsoever. It takes time to gear up and learn the mechanics appropriately. It's not a trip to the bathroom.

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Any good crafter can make the gear you need for Savage in about an hour.

Yes, it will take time to learn mechanics but that still doesn't make it hardcore.

Never said someone can clear Savage by going to the bathroom.

You sound like you have an investment in wanting to believe Savage is more than it really is - a more challenging form of casual content.

Games are for casuals. There, I said it. Games are for people who don't have anything better to do with their time.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

As for FFXIV.. it offers multiple challenges and battle content isn't necessarily restricted to casual content. The Ishgard Restoration proved dedication is rewarded. In fact, I managed to score there too, albeit not far.

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I've got the Pteranodon. I grinded it out casually over 18 months. That too was casual content even if more challenging compared to standard crafting.

The only reason more crafters don't have it is because it was an annoying long grind for an uninspired reward (yay, I can ride Aswang that I kill for my weekly B hunt bill?) so they didn't bother wasting their time.

The Expert grind is actually a good example of why reliance on completion rates is not a true indicator of difficulty and skill. A lot of people skip content they're perfectly capable of doing because they just don't find the content or the reward interesting enough to go to the effort.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Games are for casuals. There, I said it. Games are for people who don't have anything better to do with their time.

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Yeah not gunna lie that's not a good argument.
Games are hobbies and hobbies are done because they're something you enjoy using your time on over other things, not the other way around.
Plenty of people have "better" stuff they could be doing while they're doing their hobby, doesn't make it casual by definition.
In fact even the most casual of hobbies can become competitive in certain environments.

We could go even further down this rabbit hole by saying that if you make money off of your hobby its now become a job.
If you make money off of knitting sweaters because you've practiced for years and are better than most of your competition does it stay casual or have you just become so good regardless of the amount of effort you put in it can no longer be considered casual.

IMO hobbies can be both "Casual" and "Hardcore" they're not exclusive. What matters is the environment and the approach that's being taken when engaging in the hobby.

https://i.imgur.com/bnDvjPk.png

May I ask where have you met in the game with a situation where a savage player could talk down on a non-savage content player?

Usually you don't need to play savage content to unlock the story. People either play it for prestige or for the glams. And it is not mandatory.

Usually the only people who get frustrated in any content are the burgerking crown owners.

I feel that normal story content is usually quite easy to do. Everything besides that is just player choice to do.

*Reads through thread casually*

https://i.redd.it/gstfo94jkf181.png

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

*Reads through thread casually*

https://i.redd.it/gstfo94jkf181.png

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50 shades of grey is really a masterpiece since it's so popular *cough*

Definitions of hardcore:
- intensely loyal; die-hard
- stubbornly resistant to improvement or change
- extremely graphic or explicit

Definitions of casual:
- relaxed and unconcerned
- not regular or permanent
- happening by chance; accidental
- without formality of style or manner

Given the above, it seems the way of contrasting the two terms in gaming is to contrast one player's dedication to a gaming content/group with another player's relaxed and unconcerned attitude toward that same gaming content/group, which may or may not lead to irregular or impermanent participation on the part of the latter.

This means that someone who is dedicated to doing Ultimate content in FFXIV is a hardcore Ultimate raider regardless of if they're any good at it. Of course, people who are not good at something can get discouraged and lose their motivation to do it, so most hardcore players are good (or eventually become good) at the thing they are hardcore for, in part, due to their dedication at doing it.

As another example, someone who is dedicated to finishing a long grind is a hardcore grinder regardless of how long it takes, even if they only play one hour a month due to scheduling issues with something else. Though, again, depending on their hardcore level, the grind can become their priority, and that's where "no-lifing" could occur.

For a casual player, someone who is relaxed and unconcerned about a particular aspect of gaming would tend to not be as good at it as they could be and/or they tend to be ok with others not being as good as them at it. That, I think, defines a casual player better when contrasted with a hardcore player who is dedicated/loyal to that same aspect of gaming.

On the other hand, if "not regular or permanent" is the emphasis on defining casual, it would not fit as well as someone can be both casual and hardcore at the same time, like the previous example of someone who is grinding something, but cannot do it as often as they'd like due to scheduling issues, but is still determined to finishing the grind no matter how long it takes.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Definitions of hardcore:
- intensely loyal; die-hard
- stubbornly resistant to improvement or change
- extremely graphic or explicit

Definitions of casual:
- relaxed and unconcerned
- not regular or permanent
- happening by chance; accidental
- without formality of style or manner

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I would say this is the best explanation on how I use the term casual. It's just a matter of dedication and time investment not necessarily in relation to skill or immediate time sink.

Labeling things "hardcore" and "casual" honestly is broad enough IMO to help know what type of group or content you could potentially getting yourself into, it's when you start getting things like "Casual Hardcore", "Hardcore Casual", "Light Hardcore", and "Semi-Hardcore" that things start becoming convoluted.
Especially when pertaining to groups I take it as a advertisement of what type of content the group will be expecting to do in the future where having a preformed group is a bigger pro than a pf group.
In terms of labeling actual content hardcore or casual I think that just falls under the general populace consensus.


Ultimate is considered hardcore because the biggest limitation is time on multiple fronts. Savage is barely considered hardcore because of the mechanical leaps it takes from extreme.
So when it comes to reasons to label things and how to label them I think they have their place but they're very subjective.
Some people could consider savage very hardcore and ultimate casual simply because they've played for so long have such a solid group and have a huge brain but at the end of the day it comes down to what the populace thinks.
End of the day though I don't think we should forget regardless of what the populace think they can be wrong & things can be different than how they're being perceived.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

at the end of the day it comes down to what the populace thinks.
End of the day though I don't think we should forget regardless of what the populace think they can be wrong & things can be different than how they're being perceived.

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I think the common attitude can help differentiate the content.

From what I've seen in NA region:

Normal content - Just queue for it.
Extreme content - Better to use PF.
Savage content - Use PF, but maybe think of having a static.
Ultimate content - Definitely think of having a static, but at least use PF otherwise.

So, instead of worrying about whether a piece of content is casual or hardcore, it's better to compare it to others and say it more/less casual or more/less hardcore than other types of content in terms of dedication/relaxation/concern required in clearing a content.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Definitions of hardcore:
- intensely loyal; die-hard
- stubbornly resistant to improvement or change
- extremely graphic or explicit

Definitions of casual:
- relaxed and unconcerned
- not regular or permanent
- happening by chance; accidental
- without formality of style or manner

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There are some convenient half-truths and half-lies mixed in there. Being either a Hardcore MMO Player or Casual Player is all about time commitment, nothing more and nothing less.

A Hardcore Player is someone who willing to play many Hours of one type of Content (often in one go without putting much time into necessary things such as sleep or hygiene for example) until he gets the desired result or object. A good example for this in FFXIV terms, would be if you would aim for the Triceratops/Centurio Mount and try to catch EVERY single Hunt train and callout for the next 3 Months or so, or, if you spent 16+ Hours crafting every day just to get that Pteranodon Mount, until the point of obtaining it.

Now a casual Player, is nothing more than someone, who only runs Content on his own Terms and never for truly a long period of time. Doing the same Grinds as mentioned above, but only every now and then, like for example, after getting off work and playing 1-5 Hours every now and then, is already considered as playing casually.



Tl;dr: Attitude has nothing to do with someone being hardcore or casual, its all about time commitment.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Tl;dr: Attitude has nothing to do with someone being hardcore or casual, its all about time commitment.

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So by your logic if I spend 10h a day emoting in limsa and doing normal mode dungeons I'm a hardcore player but someone playing 1h a day and is doing savage and try to play efficient because he has little time to play is a casual.

the latter is the very definition of a casual, yes
a highly skilled casual

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

*Reads through thread casually*

https://i.redd.it/gstfo94jkf181.png

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fan vote, so it's not saying much

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Originally Posted by Sesera

So by your logic if I spend 10h a day emoting in limsa and doing normal mode dungeons I'm a hardcore player but someone playing 1h a day and is doing savage and try to play efficient because he has little time to play is a casual.

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Personally, i'd object the emotespam part because in order to be a hardcore PLAYer, you need to participate in gamePLAY aspects of the game, and spamming emotes in limsa is just what it sounds like.
Also keep in mind that in order to be a hardcore player, you need to play at least, the majority of a day, for multiple days. There is no truly defined hours for that, but usually its at least 13+ hours a day (for x amount of days, until either a goal is reached, or just for fun) of Gameplay, anything in between casual and hardcore can be considered as semi-hardcore or semi-casual if we want to pick Berries about the matter.

But you can proudly consider yourself a semi-hardcore emote spammer and i doubt anyone will doubt your reign.


And yeah, doing savage content daily only for arround a hour is by any means, a casual approach into the Content.
Difficulty has nothing to do with someone being a hardcore Player, its all about the time aspect.

You have a right to not perform your rotation or play at a competent level, and people also have a right to remove you from their party for doing so. When you find yourself getting silently kicked from many parties don't ask yourself why because the answer is right here.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

*Reads through thread casually*

https://i.redd.it/gstfo94jkf181.png

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Tell me a forum that doesn't have toxicity.

I've never seen anyone say that FFXIV has literally no toxicity either, it's just way better than in other games.
This whole '' gcbtw '' is getting really tiresome, play some other games and you'll see how much better FFXIV's community actually is.
I can barely play most games for more than five minutes without running into toxicity.
First thing I see when I join almost any server in Mount and Blade Warband/ Napoleonic Warfare is people spamming the N-word or ranting about jews and muslims.
The forums are significantly worse even.

FFXIV is heaven compared to basically every other game.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

the latter is the very definition of a casual, yes
a highly skilled casual



fan vote, so it's not saying much

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...yeah ? That's the point.
If this game had no fan it wouldn't have win this.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

...yeah ? That's the point.
If this game had no fan it wouldn't have win this.

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if it'd have been a neutral jury or magazine that'd have crowned the XIV community the best fanbase, that'd be something wholly different
that's like asking a baker if his bakery is the best - of course he'll say yes, why wouldn't he? parading that the fanbase voted for itself as the best community as some gotcha moment is hilarious

Agree ffxiv is not meant to be hard core no lifer kind of game, it has things that you CAN choose to do more hardcore and nolife to get things done quicker. But it is all meant to be very casual friendly. The changes they are making to pvp citing making it more casual friendly proves this. Finally got my e12s clear after some weeks of chill prog with a pause for exams, hoping to do ultimates in endwalker once my college work lessens.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

if it'd have been a neutral jury or magazine that'd have crowned the XIV community the best fanbase, that'd be something wholly different
that's like asking a baker if his bakery is the best - of course he'll say yes, why wouldn't he? parading that the fanbase voted for itself as the best community as some gotcha moment is hilarious

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There is no neutral jury, Last of Us II proves that much imo. Whomever they crowned a community would cry foul.

So many people like to tout how sinister the ff community truly is but I have yet to see them give an example of a better community. My time trying wow was not fun, my recent attempts at having some sort of discussion with the souls community and its rampant cheating got me lambasted by trolls and sexists, I get racist, sexist and homophobic abuse in league of legends, CoD same thing, halo same thing, even when I was younger and played Digimon Masters Online there were trolls everywhere. The worst I have had in this game are some overly needy people that insist on following me about and a couple snippy people in some instances. That's it. In over three years. One game of league gets me more abuse than that.

What game community that features the same amount of player interaction is better than ffxiv? A game wherein you will be matched with players not in your own friend circle, what will that random player be like on average? In league they are toxic as all hell, CoD I got constant sexism, Souls players vowed to me they would spend hours attempting to invade my session and get me banned. What do I get in ffxiv if I go do something? A random player that maybe says hello and a gg at the end. Sometimes lovely convo's happen, community interaction in a wider sense is positive. The main source of negativity you could find would be in this forum and forums tend to be where people go to voice their grievances and look for a debate/argument.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

There is no neutral jury, Last of Us II proves that much imo. Whomever they crowned a community would cry foul.

So many people like to tout how sinister the ff community truly is but I have yet to see them give an example of a better community. My time trying wow was not fun, my recent attempts at having some sort of discussion with the souls community and its rampant cheating got me lambasted by trolls and sexists, I get racist, sexist and homophobic abuse in league of legends, CoD same thing, halo same thing, even when I was younger and played Digimon Masters Online there were trolls everywhere. The worst I have had in this game are some overly needy people that insist on following me about and a couple snippy people in some instances. That's it. In over three years. One game of league gets me more abuse than that.

What game community that features the same amount of player interaction is better than ffxiv? A game wherein you will be matched with players not in your own friend circle, what will that random player be like on average? In league they are toxic as all hell, CoD I got constant sexism, Souls players vowed to me they would spend hours attempting to invade my session and get me banned. What do I get in ffxiv if I go do something? A random player that maybe says hello and a gg at the end. Sometimes lovely convo's happen, community interaction in a wider sense is positive. The main source of negativity you could find would be in this forum and forums tend to be where people go to voice their grievances and look for a debate/argument.

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It's not that other game communities are better. It's how people promote this game under this light of "purity", when they themselves are often the exact opposite. Hence the "Great community, btw".

Especially when taking into account draconian ToS. It just makes people question the sincerity of others niceness. Is it genuine; or for fear of being punished if you act out.

I've been in FC's where discord is used exclusively, to circumvent any risk of infractions.