Legitimate reasons why many of you do NOT like Gear Swapping

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbygunz

To me, gear swapping always seemed like players abusing the mathematics of the system rather than actual tactics. The only time it was tacticaly was in FFX-2 when the name of the game was dress-spheres so you knew it was intentional, and not just something the elitists imposed upon you.

---

To be fair, the gear swaps in X-2 could also induce seizures with as many colors in the visible spectrum that flashed across your screen.

Also, that was more job swapping than it was gear swapping....

Wait for it....


WAIT FOR IT......




It breaks my immersion. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

Actually they did say they were going to add an auction house, the older statement from the current team was that they were considering the risks and whatnot involved in adding one. The original team said no AH, hate to be the one to tell you but management switched hands well over a year ago.

They never said Gladiator will be a better tank. It is implied by the fact that the abilities for Gladiator and Paladin are suited to tanking. The issue with Warrior tanking everything is a current balance issue, one they are currently trying to resolve. They've publicly stated that.

The current team has openly said that they are not taking the game in the direction of gear swapping currently. There are no plans with how they are designing the game that would make them want to add it.

---

So in other words they have changed directions before and they can do it again. Hence: This thread. /endofdiscussionaboutwhetherthisthreadshouldevenexist

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Wait for it....


WAIT FOR IT......




It breaks my immersion. :D

---

Wait for it....


WAIT FOR IT......




Then don't do it. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

So in other words they have changed directions before and they can do it again. Hence: This thread. /endofdiscussionaboutwhetherthisthreadshouldevenexist

---

In other words, they've change game directors before. If and when Yoshi is ever ousted as lead on this project your argument may hold the tiniest bit of relevance/validity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Wait for it....


WAIT FOR IT......




Then don't do it. :D

---

Wait for it....

WAIT FOR IT...

Suddenly, elitists posting SS of how they did 20 more damage than you and your damage was probably just a gear effect proc anyways, THOUSANDS OF THEM!

So what your gonna cry cause someone did 20 more damage then you? And that's your argument? Bring something more legitimate to the table besides: "OMG I might get offended by a person who thinks they are better then me! D: "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Wait for it....

WAIT FOR IT...

Suddenly, elitists posting SS of how they did 20 more damage than you and your damage was probably just a gear effect proc anyways, THOUSANDS OF THEM!

---

lol.. no. Just no.

Do you parse? If not... then don't comment on the differences between DPS, HPS, damage taken, crit rates etc.. because that's just a waste of a post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Wait for it....


WAIT FOR IT......




It breaks my immersion. :D

---

Just for your information.. I play PLD right... and most of the time I'm waiting on timers. So it's understandable for someone as slow as you to not like gear swapping.

No hate, it's cool.. you're probably just a casual player (more talking less action) with 190/200 items in inventory, and a slow DSL internet connection, with a crappy DELL desktop computer with an onboard GPU as your video card.

Or better yet, wait for it... waaaaait for it...

A DELL laptop with Windows XP!!

AMIRITE?!?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

lol.. no. Just no.

Do you parse? If not... then don't comment on the differences between DPS, HPS, damage taken, crit rates etc.. because that's just a waste of a post.

---

Hi, I'd like you to meet FFXIAH, where every damage SS is the effect of a gear proc or mob weakness.

Also, this is exactly the reason I want SE to keep gear swaps out of the game. This kind of min/max "if you don't parse you is teh sux" elitism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

In other words, they've change game directors before. If and when Yoshi is ever ousted as lead on this project your argument may hold the tiniest bit of relevance/validity.

---

Basically that^

They only ever changed direction because Yoshida took over and had a different vision for the game. The current team has stated no gear swaps are planned for the foreseeable future. As I've said before, gear swaps would only really be incredibly useful in a game designed around using gear swaps as a core mechanic. This game is not and shows no signs of ever being a game like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

So what your gonna cry cause someone did 20 more damage then you? And that's your argument? Bring something more legitimate to the table besides: "OMG I might get offended by a person who thinks they are better then me! D: "

---

Bring something better to the table than "SE has changed direction when the project lead has switched has so anything is possible".

SE (no, not SE, Yoshi, the current lead and demi-god governing FFXIV's development) has said he has absolutely no intention of adding gear swapping as a battle mechanic but you keep bringing it up, insisting it's relevant because you want it.

If an item is epic it will last a long time. If it doesn't you may need to look up epic on UD or at least add fail to it. New epic toy that lasts six months? epic fail.
See how easy? ^^d

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Hi, I'd like you to meet FFXIAH, where every damage SS is the effect of a gear proc or mob weakness.

Also, this is exactly the reason I want SE to keep gear swaps out of the game. This kind of min/max "if you don't parse you is teh sux" elitism.

---

Well then that went over your head. If you don't parse you don't see the huge differences in gear swapping.

It's like teaching someone stocks.. you don't put all your eggs in one basket, you spread it around to maximize returns and have a lesser chance of failure.

But haaaaiiiii I guess that's just too much brain power for many of us :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Bring something better to the table than "SE has changed direction when the project lead has switched has so anything is possible".

SE (no, not SE, Yoshi, the current lead and demi-god governing FFXIV's development) has said he has absolutely no intention of adding gear swapping as a battle mechanic but you keep bringing it up, insisting it's relevant because you want it.

---

It's not definitive. Unless you can give me a direct quote with the source. From my understand, after doing a crap ton of google searches it appears that, "FOR NOW" there is no gear swapping until there is a demand for it. Supply and Demand... he wants this game to survive he's going to play by the market rules... otherwise all that investing and losing of money will be for nothing and even worst, shameful.

Just keepin' it real.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

The current team has stated no gear swaps are planned for the foreseeable future.

---

Because they are so good at forseeing the multiple delays taked on to patch 1.21 maint... or forseeing the Ul'dah Inn still not working...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Wait for it....


WAIT FOR IT......




Then don't do it. :D

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

Just for your information.. I play PLD right... and most of the time I'm waiting on timers. So it's understandable for someone as slow as you to not like gear swapping.

No hate, it's cool.. you're probably just a casual player (more talking less action) with 190/200 items in inventory, and a slow DSL internet connection, with a crappy DELL desktop computer with an onboard GPU as your video card.

Or better yet, wait for it... waaaaait for it...

A DELL laptop with Windows XP!!

AMIRITE?!?!

---

This is a prime example of how to defensive some people can be. My post was mocking the "It breaks my immersion" kick everyone was on when Goobbue mounts, a Jump function, colored gear, etc. were all being introduced or discussed.

And no, I don't believe you're playing PLD right. But that's a discussion for another topic. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Bring something better to the table than "SE has changed direction when the project lead has switched has so anything is possible".

SE (no, not SE, Yoshi, the current lead and demi-god governing FFXIV's development) has said he has absolutely no intention of adding gear swapping as a battle mechanic but you keep bringing it up, insisting it's relevant because you want it.

---

I didn't bring it up. Did you even see the OP? I am joining in on the discussion. Something you are not doing. All you are trying to do is end it. So why don't you end your part in it and stop replying? Then the people here that actually wanna talk about it can get back to doing just that. K? Thanks.

By talk you mean be jerks to anyone of the other view, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

Well then that went over your head. If you don't parse you don't see the huge differences in gear swapping.

It's like teaching someone stocks.. you don't put all your eggs in one basket, you spread it around to maximize returns and have a lesser chance of failure.

But haaaaiiiii I guess that's just too much brain power for many of us :(

---

Using a program someone else created to max the effectiveness of macro templates that other people created so you can brag about dealing 250-300 extra damage over the course of a 20 minute fight is brain power now?

By the way, this is a great argument for why gear swapping will never be added. The fact that you think parsing gives you the privilege, nay THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT to snub your nose at everyone who doesn't do it is exactly what give gear swapping a bad name and makes people call you an elitist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

I didn't bring it up. Did you even see the OP? I am joining in on the discussion. Something you are not doing. All you are trying to do is end it. So why don't you end your part in it and stop replying? Then the people here that actually wanna talk about it can get back to doing just that. K? Thanks.

---

Then stop defending it if you're not bringing it up...

The people here (particularly the OP) are trying to make a case for why it should be in the game, completely ignoring everything the devs have said because they want to see it added.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Because they are so good at forseeing the multiple delays taked on to patch 1.21 maint... or forseeing the Ul'dah Inn still not working...

---

No, I'm just really good at reading what the current team has publicly said. There's a difference between the vision for the game/direction they are going in and unfortunate delays and bugs. One is intended, the other isn't. See if you can figure out which is which.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Because they are so good at forseeing the multiple delays taked on to patch 1.21 maint... or forseeing the Ul'dah Inn still not working...

---

Word. With SE, take their words with a grain of salt. Hell it's beyond that, I don't even like to read about upcoming patch notes because:

A. They come late

B. Something always breaks

Their track record proves repeatedly that nothing is written in stone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

And no, I don't believe you're playing PLD right. But that's a discussion for another topic. ;)

---

roflmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Using a program someone else created to max the effectiveness of macro templates that other people created so you can brag about dealing 250-300 extra damage over the course of a 20 minute fight is brain power now?

By the way, this is a great argument for why gear swapping will never be added. The fact that you think parsing gives you the privilege, nay THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT to snub your nose at everyone who doesn't do it is exactly what give gear swapping a bad name and makes people call you an elitist.

---

lol you're pathetic. Your assumptions fail. I've said it before.. I'm humble. I don't give a flying mofo if you don't gear swap. It's all about me putting out DPS and surviving AND being a team player and making it easier on my healers by ME not being some sort of MP drain.. the best way to hit that head on, is having varying stats on the fly by MY command during any battle.

You don't want to gear swap? Cool.. I don't care. You have the best of the best armor all HQ armor at that? Cool... I don't care.

So don't confuse me with those people.. I'm competitive with myself, not with other people in FFXIV nor was I ever in FFXI. Now if PvP existed... you can cry all you want about gear swapping. Gear or just stat swapping in general is beneficial for all players against enemies.

I personally didn't like gear swapping much. Mainly due to the blinking and losing target.

But I thought a good way of keeping some of the swapping stats element could be done by introducing something like a "Shifting Materia".

Where a single piece of materia could have shifting stats, for example, one could have "+10 crit, -10acc <--> +10 acc, -10 crit", or
"+20 Fire M Att, -20 Ice def <--> +20 Ice M Att, -20 Fire def".

The materia could be activated just like an equipped action. Then by equpping the right materia to your gear you can switch between them as the situation requires.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

This is a prime example of how to defensive some people can be. My post was mocking the "It breaks my immersion" kick everyone was on when Goobbue mounts, a Jump function, colored gear, etc. were all being introduced or discussed.

And no, I don't believe you're playing PLD right. But that's a discussion for another topic. ;)

---

This is a prime example of how people can't tell when someone is being sarcastic. My post was mocking the "Don't like it, don't do it" response that almost always comes right after the atypical "I don't have a good reason why it shouldn't happen, just that I don't like it." post. I knew you were mocking it. But it's ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scotchio

I personally didn't like gear swapping much. Mainly due to the blinking and losing target.

But I thought a good way of keeping some of the swapping stats element could be done by introducing something like a "Shifting Materia".

Where a single piece of materia could have shifting stats, for example, one could have "+10 crit, -10acc <--> +10 acc, -10 crit", or
"+20 Fire M Att, -20 Ice def <--> +20 Ice M Att, -20 Fire def".

The materia could be activated just like an equipped action. Then by equpping the right materia to your gear you can switch between them as the situation requires.

---

Limited by a timer that could be pretty cool. Neat idea. I especially like how you sacrifice something for the boost. Makes the "gear-swap" so-to-speak more "balanced"... kind-of. :s

I don't like gear swapping because it creates homogeneity among players. I would like to see players who choose gear sets that best fit their play style or decide what they believe is the optimal build for a specific fight before entering. Players should have to weigh the pros and cons for choosing their gear for encounters.

With gear swapping players collect every piece of gear they can and will swap pieces in and out receiving all of it's stats even if they were only wearing the gear for a few seconds. There is no longer any thought about what gear they will bring to an encounter because they can wear all of the gear that they can carry and write macros for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scotchio

I personally didn't like gear swapping much. Mainly due to the blinking and losing target.

But I thought a good way of keeping some of the swapping stats element could be done by introducing something like a "Shifting Materia".

Where a single piece of materia could have shifting stats, for example, one could have "+10 crit, -10acc <--> +10 acc, -10 crit", or
"+20 Fire M Att, -20 Ice def <--> +20 Ice M Att, -20 Fire def".

The materia could be activated just like an equipped action. Then by equpping the right materia to your gear you can switch between them as the situation requires.

---

It's...highly unlikely that people would risk attaching a second materia to a piece of gear to switch during battle that had no effect otherwise, and anything that involves removing the risk of attaching materia is never going to happen.

It's a novel idea, because it still keeps the essence of the materia system (crafters would still attach it) but it's impractical and highly unlikely to be implemented.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

No, you would be a douchebag when/if you decide that you're so awesome you have the right to tell other people how much they suck and how you're so much better than them.

Being a better player doesn't make you elitist, being a self-righteous asshole does.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

lol.. no. Just no.

Do you parse? If not... then don't comment on the differences between DPS, HPS, damage taken, crit rates etc.. because that's just a waste of a post.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

Well then that went over your head. If you don't parse you don't see the huge differences in gear swapping.

It's like teaching someone stocks.. you don't put all your eggs in one basket, you spread it around to maximize returns and have a lesser chance of failure.

But haaaaiiiii I guess that's just too much brain power for many of us :(

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

lol you're pathetic. Your assumptions fail...

---

Welcome to being a posterboy for why people hate min/maxers and a shining example of why SE should never add mid-battle gear swaps to the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Welcome to being a posterboy for why people hate min/maxers and a shining example of why SE should never add mid-battle gear swaps to the game.

---

So people hate maximum efficiency.

Being an elitist doesn't make you a self-righteous asshole. Being a self-righteous asshole does. Stop putting every elitist into some "your a fing douche" category. I consider myself an elitist. I do not however care whether or not someone has good gear or not. Only that I do. And I certainly don't try to rub it in thier face. "ohoho i did 1 more damage then you.. hahaha l2p fing noob!" Really...? I don't understand how someone can act like that... elitist or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

So people hate maximum efficiency.

---

People hate assholes who treat everyone that doesn't parse like they're garbage.

I'd go more with: People want to be able to be successful while overcoming their weaknesses through choice and skill. If you can gear swap for every single spell, there is no weakness to account for. It tells me they just want an even easier easy mode than we have now. I'm sorry if XIV is too hard for you without gear swaps!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Being an elitist doesn't make you a self-righteous asshole. Being a self-righteous asshole does. Stop putting every elitist into some "your a fing douche" category. I consider myself an elitist. I do not however care whether or not someone has good gear or not. Only that I do. And I certainly don't try to rub it in thier face. "ohoho i did 1 more damage then you.. hahaha l2p fing noob!" Really...? I don't understand how someone can act like that... elitist or not.

---

I'd think if that were true you'd have found better ways to make your character stronger without asking SE to add a system they have no interest of adding to the game.

Also, I know devs don't like getting involved in threads where players ask for things, but can we please get a community rep in here to tell the OP that Yoshi has already said no and it's still the position of the dev team that "NO!" ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

People hate assholes who treat everyone that doesn't parse like they're garbage.

---

The reason for parsing, at least for me, is to find what stats are best in varying situations. It has nothing to do with comparing who is better than who.. I only parse myself, if there's people in my PT who want to know the results then I'll post them.. otherwise again, parsing is for MY use only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peptaru

I'd go more with: People want to be able to be successful while overcoming their weaknesses through choice and skill. If you can gear swap for every single spell, there is no weakness to account for. It tells me they just want an even easier easy mode than we have now. I'm sorry if XIV is too hard for you without gear swaps!

---

Well asking 1 BLM to get on their Thunder build and another BLM to get on their Fire build isn't exactly efficient..

Also part of the reason why I want stat swapping is for the sake of soloing. I think it's bad enough that BLM can't cure themselves besides second wind for example.. everything has to be duo or trio or full pt. What if I wanted to farm big game because it has a higher drop rate? Instead I have to spend even more time grinding on mobs just to get crafting materials.

I dunno, I like being self sufficient. I like not having to depend on others every single time I log in.

I am torn on the gear swapping issue.

On one hand:
• I like the idea of maximizing my performance when healing/buffing/nuking
• I like the ability to react to dynamic events by changing to the appropriate gear for the situation.
• I like the idea of having more equipment I can hunt down and obtain
• Gear would not have an ultimate best in slot per Job so it would end the BIS slot should be drop vs. crafted argument

On the other
• I hated losing target and the blinky thing that happens when you change
• Makes no sense that I change my pants in the middle of battle
• Stress on my inventory
• I would rather use abilities than swap gear during fights

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

The reason for parsing, at least for me, is to find what stats are best in varying situations. It has nothing to do with comparing who is better than who.. I only parse myself, if there's people in my PT who want to know the results then I'll post them.. otherwise again, parsing is for MY use only.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

Well then that went over your head. If you don't parse you don't see the huge differences in gear swapping.

But haaaaiiiii I guess that's just too much brain power for many of us :(

---

I don't even have to post anything, I can rebut you with your own comments. =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

I don't even have to post anything, I can rebut you with your own comments. =)

---

Wat?

I guess you don't do so well in statistics nor any sciences, eh?

That's fine.

You're telling me that gear swapping would only have the benefit of having a slight higher DPS than someone else. This is illogical... Parsing is primarily to find the numbers in YOUR own character and job/class. And DPS is just a small fraction of what I care about.

Parsing opens the door to understanding how stats work at what point/situation, against what mobs, gear or better yet stat swapping is supplemented for a better output.

As I've said before, SE would be wasting data if they came out with haste gear. Especially if it's gear that is not meldable.

It is true that Yoshi and team certainly could change their mind regarding gear swap. In fact he even said, if it was found to was needed, they would add it.

However there seems to be a confusion between the concepts of necessity and want. Gear swapping in any form is not a necessity that, in its absence, makes XIV (or any other MMO for that matter) unplayable.

It is also not some unimportant fluff that people can choose to ignore if they want to. We're not talking bunny girls here. We're talking integral game mechanics that will alter the game significantly. When someone can come up with a reason that provides a logical and tangible benefit to the game as a whole, as opposed to just personal benefits, I'm sure they will reconsider it.

I've yet to see that, however, and sincerely doubt I ever will.

Even if someone did come up with a brilliant reason you then still have to address all the negatives that come with allowing your players to min/max and meta-game your content like that.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Just saying...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

It is true that Yoshi and team certainly could change their mind regarding gear swap. In fact he even said, if it was found to was needed, they would add it.

However there seems to be a confusion between the concepts of necessity and want. Gear swapping in any form is not a necessity that, in its absence, makes XIV (or any other MMO for that matter) unplayable.

It is also not some unimportant fluff that people can choose to ignore if they want to. We're not talking bunny girls here. We're talking integral game mechanics that will alter the game significantly. When someone can come up with a reason that provides a logical and tangible benefit to the game as a whole, as opposed to just personal benefits, I'm sure they will reconsider it.

I've yet to see that, however, and sincerely doubt I ever will.

Even if someone did come up with a brilliant reason you then still have to address all the negatives that come with allowing your players to min/max and meta-game your content like that.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Just saying...

---

I love you Wynn, you bastard. Why did you leave me?!?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

Wat?

I guess you don't do so well in statistics nor any sciences, eh?

---

So now it's "if you don't understand that my way is superior, you must be an idiot that can't understand simple mathematics at all"?

But yeah no, you're totally helping your cause by insulting people who don't feel the need to parse everything and crunch numbers 24/7 to enjoy the game.

Do go on. =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

I love you Wynn, you bastard. Why did you leave me?!?!




So now it's "if you don't understand that my way is superior, you must be an idiot that can't understand simple mathematics at all"?

But yeah no, you're totally helping your cause by insulting people who don't feel the need to parse everything and crunch numbers 24/7 to enjoy the game.

Do go on. =)

---

By your logic... then there's no need for stats. Might as well put in a petition to abolish stats as they are just useless information that no one wants to bother with. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illriginalized

By your logic... then there's no need for stats. Might as well put in a petition to abolish stats as they are just useless information that no one wants to bother with. :rolleyes:

---

I know your being sarcastic, but tbh most stats require almost absurd numbers to yield decent returns (IE: needing +30 Crit. Rate to increase your actual Crit. rate by 1%.) The fact so much of a stat is needed to be noticeable, is probably how naked Ifrit/Mog runs are even doable to begin with, since gear is supplementing native stats. Along with the very limited capability to obtain/stack some stats in this game it really makes it difficult to determine if swapping gear is even worth the effort to begin with. At least at this point in the game.