Ishgardian Restoration world visit.

As things were working before the world visit lockout, smaller worlds were already falling behind because those world visitors were not doing anything to help speed them along, they were simply leeching on the FATEs. Leeching on FATEs shaves a possible 1/2 hour FATE down to like 3 minutes and does next to nothing in the overall scheme of speeding up a given server's progress. So the world visit lockout doesn't change any of that, but they should still consider adding incentives for world visitors to *want* to do meaningful crafting on other worlds, something like scrip % bonuses on worlds that are behind; based on either server pop, or how many progress stages they are behind the leading servers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John_Milter

Its really easy for someone not a dev working on a critically acclaimed game to say its common sense when it goes wrong, but I genuinely don't think they expected it to be on this scale.

---

Any player could have told you this would happen if they knew the system was going to be like this from day one, and the devs have access to even more data and statistics than your average player, they even cite that crafting populations on servers were different meaning they must have had an idea of how quickly the servers progress would go, plus an idea of how much spill over there could be.

They knew:
1.How many players EXACTLY the map could handle
2.How much spill over there COULD be
3.How many people active use crossworld linkshells for hunting and fates (This is important because they gave the player base a way to active instantly communicate to large groups of people across worlds)
4.it wouldn't be the first time they knew of discord being used to organize things, at most they should have learned what their player base did after BA

Factoring these things, Yes, it's really easy to say they skipped applying common sense, and if they genuinely didn't expect this to happen then that calls into question exactly how they go about planning things as a whole.

I don't think I have to be a game dev to call into question their lack of foresight here, this isn't a programming issue, this isnt a hardware issue, it's a people issue.

I wonder if this will impact small servers ... while currently the steps seam small SE is notorious for big jumps ... it would not suprise me if SE makes the final step take an average of 2 months for a large server.

Now if its true that some servers have 4 times the craft potential of others ... you could look at getting that stage done 2-4 months later.

Time will tell

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rookie1

they can still help by gathering mats and selling them for cheap on the MB

---

You know you can only sell stuff on your own world, right? what if it isn't small pop player who buy my cheap mats? or MB lord sweep it up and resell with x2 price?
Some ppl have been suggesting trading free mats to them directly, but nothing guarantee they'll use it and not ended up on MB.
Too much hassle, really. I'm not Gandhi with unlimited Gil&Time-- unless someone provide me a cheatcode /motherlode please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whalaqee

I mean Yoshi, if you were worried about lower pop servers, why not let us gatherers contribute? As then crafters aren't shouldering the entire burden to move the progress bar. That way wanderers wouldn't be needed.

---

Not only that but why not simply watch it with the world visit being restricted and if servers really struggle (like being weeks behind or something) then allow people to help. I am not just sure why something that is probably not going to be active for months until the next patch is out (because that would be a huge amount of stages..) needs help anyway? Why not let lower servers enjoy a slower pace? Since when was this a race? If people want Ishgard housing they will continue working with it, if they dont then they just simply dont complete it or maybe months later.

This kind of help also might just kill of the content faster, leaving much more work on the shoulders of those that want to see Isghard being rebuilt..because if you get 500 for one fate and can do these fates on all servers than you will be done with this content soon..Were is the incentive to help by crafting (and gathering) these items if people already have all the items?

Also yesterday I went out to gather some stuff to craft it into turn ins after doing my other stuff ingame. It was still over one hour until the fate and I could not get back..so are you telling the players that they should afk in there?

Edit: Oh seems that they at least fixed the problem. Please SE...next time dont do such things..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADbear

You know you can only sell stuff on your own world, right? what if it isn't small pop player who buy my cheap mats? or MB lord sweep it up and resell with x2 price?
Some ppl have been suggesting trading free mats to them directly, but nothing guarantee they'll use it and not ended up on MB.
Too much hassle, really. I'm not Gandhi with unlimited Gil&Time-- unless someone provide me a cheatcode /motherlode please.

---

You can sell it on your own world but doesn't stop people from other worlds to come over and buy it.There are sites that players can use to check what server has the cheapest stuff.SO keep ur smartass crap to urself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone. This is FFXIV Producer & Director Yoshi-P.


We have been reviewing the data for each World up until this afternoon (Japan time), and have verified that the commencement of concerted works in and of itself is not causing issues on any World. Therefore, in order to alleviate the previously discussed congestion for the time being, we have opted to prevent players using the World Visit System from participating in the Ishgardian Restoration on other Worlds.

---

I am so impressed and humbled by this response. Thank you so much for listening to your players and taking care of a problem that was causing such grief so quickly. You are really the best.

i was traveling to the farthest behind realms to make my turn ins during the first phase and leaving as the bar was completed. i continued to do so anytime i got locked out. i was also sending my friends to do the same. maybe they could add a turn in NPC outside the gates so that we can still turn in on the smaller realms and just not participate in the fate?

I'm glad a lot of people are happy with this change, but for me it means that I'm not going to contribute anymore to my world progress for a while. The only logic change now would be to scale the number of required points on the server's pop. I got they have statistics and everything, but this second bar is already filling way slower than the first one on our world, both because less people are crafting than the first day and I guess the requirement is higher. And by doing this, things are not going to change if they decide to change this in some weeks, because I'm pretty sure the people from other servers that will be done with the restoration won't come to help us at all.
And also it's not about being "world first", I was okay with already lagging behind, but I don't have the time nor the wish to keep gathering and crafting 4 times more than on another server and I already see a lot more people burning out because of this, considering I already got all the rewards I wanted and I was going to do it just for the sake of the restoration. Personally the only way this can work in my opinion is by nerfing it and scaling it down on the number of crafters/gatherers or whatever SE thinks is more appropriate.
And in general, I wouldn't change my server because of this, but I haven't read anywhere that being on a small pop one means having disadvanteges before joining, also considering I was on the one with the smallest pop already before they added this new one.
Server visit is a thing for a while now, and it's a thing I like. A lot of problems occured where ShB launched with Hunts, but I didn't see anyone changing anything about that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koroem

Yeah I saw that but if there is one thing this community has proved time and time again is that no amount of pleading with them to do the right thing will change their behavior. They will need to be forced to stop to fix this issue, in the mean time the situation will get more toxic. It always does.

---

This comment is spot on. I mean, just look at praetorium. How many new players have had their experience ruined by people who couldn't be bothered to wait for others to get to the boss or even show them where to go. It would have taken them a few minutes tops, but could they be bothered? Nope! My first time was an awful experience and it ruined it for me. And after square forced the issue, people are still trying to ruin it for new players by logging out to skip and try to rush the boss kills. And now you get stuck with groups whining about how they can't skip the cutscenes. Don't like not being able to ruin things for new players anymore? Then don't queue. Myself and others are more than happy to help newcomers and let them experience the story.

So, no. This situation probably won't improve. Square is probably going to have to step in and force change. Again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taebok

Not I.
If it takes a few more weeks, I'm fine with that.
And if it gets THAT bad, they can always nerf it.

---

Me neither. I'm fine with it taking a long time.

It is done, world visit restricted https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...a79d0b3c4697f4

I-I just might have to give this a go...that was the fastest response I have ever seen in this game...hm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADbear

I'm sorry to hear your wanderers didn't contribute but atleast in JPdc they do just that and FATE chain up beautifully.
and I also help contribute to Aegis's when they're slower than the rest of us. but well, it doesn't matter now.

---

It was still causing problems. Locals on Typhon couldn't get into the FATE this morning because it was crowded out with wanderers.

Thank you for fixing this! It was very annoying to have to time gathering materials just so I could sit and craft for 2 hours before the Fate started in order to participate on my home world and not get locked out. I imagine it was an even greater annoyance to those who don't have the time to do this like I do.

This band-aid can hardly be called a fix.

For examples here on Crystal we have 6 out of 7 servers with the lowest active population OF ALL NA servers. And for the only more active one - i.e. Balmung - even that would be (and probably will be once we reach 3rd Works) congested with just our own active players. Banning wanderers from participating only furthers this server segregation and does absolutely nothing to even out the population/accessibility differences for the content.

When i got on around 7:00PM cst all the way until like 12AM i was unable to enter the instance to turn in.
It should never have been allowed to begin with but if they are in fact locking out world visit it is appreciated.
Leviathan had plenty of crafters to begin with so with World Visit it was.. yeah

just joining the "Thank you"s
Very pleased that there was a fairly swift response and not told to deal with it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aruiya

This band-aid can hardly be called a fix.

For examples here on Crystal we have 6 out of 7 servers with the lowest active population OF ALL NA servers. And for the only more active one - i.e. Balmung - even that would be (and probably will be once we reach 3rd Works) congested with just our own active players. Banning wanderers from participating only furthers this server segregation and does absolutely nothing to even out the population/accessibility differences for the content.

---

It could be argued that this is an additional incentive for high-pop world players to transfer to low-pop, balancing the population issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hasrat

It could be argued that this is an additional incentive for high-pop world players to transfer to low-pop, balancing the population issue.

---

Like these negative "incentives" ever work. Big result of DC reshuffling was people leaving 6/8 dead Crystal to go back to Aether/Primal making it more uneven. Even though the plan was to even out the numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aruiya

This band-aid can hardly be called a fix.

For examples here on Crystal we have 6 out of 7 servers with the lowest active population OF ALL NA servers. And for the only more active one - i.e. Balmung - even that would be (and probably will be once we reach 3rd Works) congested with just our own active players. Banning wanderers from participating only furthers this server segregation and does absolutely nothing to even out the population/accessibility differences for the content.

---

High population server problems should be solved by moving to smaller servers, not by stealing world content from smaller servers and then jumping back to enjoy the good parts of a big server.

So now that babby has its pacifier, the complaining will stop. Right?

It's always, dev's don't listen! Fire Yoshi P! Then those voices go silent with no sense of apology.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrisnetika

You can sell it on your own world but doesn't stop people from other worlds to come over and buy it.There are sites that players can use to check what server has the cheapest stuff.SO keep ur smartass crap to urself.

---

Thanks for supporting my smartcrap from smoothest smartass, pretty sure that mean it's obvious everyone can spot cheapest stuff on MB and my cheapest mats might not end up contributing to slower world at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It was still causing problems. Locals on Typhon couldn't get into the FATE this morning because it was crowded out with wanderers.

---

Tbh I can't get in Tonberry's FATE this morning too, a shame indeed but wouldn't be upset over 500scripts. What concern me are folk can't go in to send stuff.
Maybe locking wanderers off Firmament might be a good idea after all, let's just do stuff for our own world.

I wonder why no measure was taken for Hunts when every instance was congested for the first few weeks of ShB. Also this morning in another server of my DC there wasn't already any congestion.
The congestion was gonna go away very fast in my opinion, considering the first people just afk-ing for the fates are the ones that don't care about crafting and just wanted the glamour.
Also, yesterday it took 10 minutes for us to complete a fate with all the wanderers, against 3 minutes for the high pop one. I can see ourselves failing the fate if they don't scale it to the number of people without the wanderers.

Thank you! As a member of a low pop server, i was so sick and tired of the high pop servers coming in and "raiding" our instance.

Im glad they found that the commencement wasnt really contributed by wanderers. They only added to congestion.

Thank you very much for implementing these changes! I feel like we will now get a more sincere representation of the collaboration intended to complete the Restoration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aruiya

Like these negative "incentives" ever work. Big result of DC reshuffling was people leaving 6/8 dead Crystal to go back to Aether/Primal making it more uneven. Even though the plan was to even out the numbers.

---

You're right, negative incentives never work.

Neither do positive ones. Players always expect someone else to change so they don't have to be inconvenienced.

This change won't improve things on Balmung or Mateus. It will improve things on Brynhildr, Coeurl, Diablos, Goblin, Malboro and Zalera. I'd say it's an overall improvement with 6 out of 8 worlds benefitting. We're about 15 minutes away from our next FATE and the Firmament is filling up nicely - but at least it's Coeurl players this time and not a horde of Wanderers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're right, negative incentives never work.

Neither do positive ones. Players always expect someone else to change so they don't have to be inconvenienced.

This change won't improve things on Balmung or Mateus. It will improve things on Brynhildr, Coeurl, Diablos, Goblin, Malboro and Zalera. I'd say it's an overall improvement with 6 out of 8 worlds benefitting. We're about 15 minutes away from our next FATE and the Firmament is filling up nicely - but at least it's Coeurl players this time and not a horde of Wanderers.

---

Are you sure things on low pop servers are going to improve? In my world, which is a new EU world, bar is progressing about 2% per hour since they lifted world visit and people from high pop servers had to leave because they were out of mats. We are still on the 2nd bar. At this rate, I think it will take about 2 weeks to complete next progress bar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesF

Are you sure things on low pop servers are going to improve? In my world, which is a new EU world, bar is progressing about 2% per hour since they lifted world visit and people from high pop servers had to leave because they were out of mats. We are still on the 2nd bar. At this rate, I think it will take about 2 weeks to complete next progress bar.

---

If it gets done it gets done, you still able to get scrips so what the problem if it goes slow? If this is about possible ishgard housing, your on a new world that just got housing opened recently it couldn't be that dire there already for need to rush out new housing.
These is no bonus to what servers finish first and everyone will be able to participate on your world.

I appreciate the response and fix that you guys have done. Thank you!

Thank the twelve they put a stop to that. :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesF

Are you sure things on low pop servers are going to improve? In my world, which is a new EU world, bar is progressing about 2% per hour since they lifted world visit and people from high pop servers had to leave because they were out of mats. We are still on the 2nd bar. At this rate, I think it will take about 2 weeks to complete next progress bar.

---

This is not something intended to be completed overnight (or even in 2 weeks). It's content that's supposed to last us the majority of the expansion. There's no deadline that has to be met on this. There are no new rewards being unlocked with the new stages at this point. Being behind is not an issue.

Once things calm down from the normal release of new content panic, SE will be better able to evaluate what worlds if any might need the help from cross world players to meet whatever internal expectations they have for world progress.

I don't expect Wanderers to be locked out of the Firmament permanently, just until the content has been out long enough to give all players a reasonable chance to participate on their home worlds.

I'm happy with the changes that you have made regarding the congestion of Firmament, but what happens with the people that have been contributing with the restoration and wasn't able to participate in their own server fate or any other server fate because there were wanderes that didn't even contribute at all and were leeching spots (being afk) just to get scripts. So they get the rewards and those who through hardwork were the ones who to unlock the fate, were reward with nothing. What are you going to do with that situation?

Tbh I'm okay with my smaller world progging more slowly if that means we can actually participate. If it's more important to be first in a server-wide prog, people with those desires should move to a large server. Let the rest of us participate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesF

Are you sure things on low pop servers are going to improve? In my world, which is a new EU world, bar is progressing about 2% per hour since they lifted world visit and people from high pop servers had to leave because they were out of mats. We are still on the 2nd bar. At this rate, I think it will take about 2 weeks to complete next progress bar.

---

My guess is there will be a point where the CW stop actually adding more the map and instead are just a normal fate which you can earn scrips/exp.

They said the content itself is going to go on through 5.X so unless they plan to make multiple editions all the way to Feb (when 5.2 launches) I'm sure the actual progress will stop at a certain point physically and everyone will be on the same foot going forward.

Even then I'm sure they'll look at the efforts (as Yoshi-P mentioned the smaller pop's were in consideration from his first post) and do some tweaking to allow them to finish fine, just not as quick as the ones who are going full ham like the big pops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gula

So now that babby has its pacifier, the complaining will stop. Right?

It's always, dev's don't listen! Fire Yoshi P! Then those voices go silent with no sense of apology.

---

In this case, no one should be apologetic for being frustrated with this.

SE was fully aware of the obviously easily abusable risks, and opted to ignore them, this is on them.

I'm happy they locked it now, but I won't apologize for complaining about it simply because anyone and everyone would have seen this coming for a mile away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrisnetika

If it gets done it gets done, you still able to get scrips so what the problem if it goes slow? If this is about possible ishgard housing, your on a new world that just got housing opened recently it couldn't be that dire there already for need to rush out new housing.
These is no bonus to what servers finish first and everyone will be able to participate on your world.

---

It's not about finishing first, it's about having to put 4-5 times the work people from high pop servers do. I did 30k scrips in 2 days and got all the stuff I need, but I'm gonna stop for now. I would be okay with this choice if it actually was scaled to server population.
Moreover, I already wrote it some post ago, this morning there wasn't congestion for a fate (at least on EU servers it's like this) and I'm pretty sure everywhere it was gonna stop after all the afk-ers would have got everything they needed. I know we will get housing "eventually", but spamming 200+ collectables per day to see such a small improvement on the progress bar is not encouraging imo.
And yeah, we already had to wait months to get FC housing and be able to level subs so already were kinda penalized for that (but it was kinda obvious it was gonna happen). I'm ok with this system, as long as they scale things down on servers pop (or percentage of crafters/gatherers), since considering how much we took for the first fate yesterday with the helping wanderers (about 10 minutes) I'm seriously worried we won't be able to finish the fates without them.

As a Leviathan player, I was helping Framfrit server because it was behind all the other data centers and I guess this is a big F in the face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Missifu

I'm happy with the changes that you have made regarding the congestion of Firmament, but what happens with the people that have been contributing with the restoration and wasn't able to participate in their own server fate or any other server fate because there were wanderes that didn't even contribute at all and were leeching spots (being afk) just to get scripts. So they get the rewards and those who through hardwork were the ones who to unlock the fate, were reward with nothing. What are you going to do with that situation?

---

What do you want them to do? The people who were afk in there previously and got rewards for the fate aren't any different from people who afk in dungeons or other content. Sure, it sucks that you missed the fate. A lot of us did. But they can't track down everyone and punish them individually for being jerks with this. I doubt they would anyway given their history with situations like this and the sheer amount of manpower involved, assuming that's even possible. Which is highly debatable.

And anyway you still got your rewards for turning in the collectibles, and can participate in the fate going forward. It's only been a couple of days since implementation so there's plenty of time to get all of the sweet exp you could want and the 500+ scrips with it. Personally, I think it's great they reacted as quickly as they did. At worst only 6-8 fates per world were affected, depending on timing, before they realized the situation was globally untenable and fixed it. Considering this is content meant for the remainder of the expansion... I am quite satisfied with that outcome.

Since it appears to be the case, just wanted to point out one thing:

This content is not meant to be finished within a week. And its good like that. Its nice to do lasting content for once and not content being stale after the grind phase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xbahax92

Since it appears to be the case, just wanted to point out one thing:

This content is not meant to be finished within a week. And its good like that. Its nice to do lasting content for once and not content being stale after the grind phase.

---

Yeah, with the difference that on Odin, which is the fastest EU server in this restoration, FEW contributions from A LOT of crafters are gonna get you everything done in a week ^^ On our server, on the other hand, it's gonna take A LOT of contributions from FEW people, which in the long run can become not fun at all and just burn us out. In their post SE even recognized there is a disparity in the number of crafters/gatherers, so why not address that too right away?
But hey, I guess scaling the needed points on the population servers was too much to ask.