"New game plus - quests will have no rewards..."

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Originally Posted by hynaku

It just be another worthless add on that I will never use. If want see old quest I would re watch them at the inn. If get nothing for doing the quests why even waste your time.

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Then you are not the target audience. I honestly don’t get why people are not understanding this. Not everything in game is meant to appeal to everyone and that’s ok.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

It just be another worthless add on that I will never use. If want see old quest I would re watch them at the inn. If get nothing for doing the quests why even waste your time.

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Because - as has been well covered at this point - some of us see the story as its own reward. Or why do anything you enjoy more than once? Would you need a reward for watching a favourite film again?

And there is a lot more to the game's story than what can be reviewed at the inn. The cutscene viewer is a highlights reel, not the entire story with all the details.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

It just be another worthless add on that I will never use. If want see old quest I would re watch them at the inn. If get nothing for doing the quests why even waste your time. How about they put there funds and add more end game content and more hair styles for the new races. They could also used funds for new game plus for a new healer class. Just like the trust system that I will never use. All ready could run dungeons with my squadron.

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You act as if NG+ is going to cut into one of the 6.0 jobs. That’s highly unlikely to be the case. Personally, I don’t think this took nearly as much resources as people are complaining about: at most, they needed to program ways to initiate the feature, and code a method of unflagging and reflagging quests during. The large bulk of the material involved in NG+ has already existed (i.e., the MSQ is already an existing asset).

As for Trusts versus Squadrons: you do know that Squadrons can’t do the ShB dungeons but the Trusts can, right? And Trusts can’t do pre-ShB, but Squadrons can do ARR/HW. That’s the different there.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You act as if NG+ is going to cut into one of the 6.0 jobs. That’s highly unlikely to be the case. Personally, I don’t think this took nearly as much resources as people are complaining about: at most, they needed to program ways to initiate the feature, and code a method of unflagging and reflagging quests during. The large bulk of the material involved in NG+ has already existed (i.e., the MSQ is already an existing asset).

As for Trusts versus Squadrons: you do know that Squadrons can’t do the ShB dungeons but the Trusts can, right? And Trusts can’t do pre-ShB, but Squadrons can do ARR/HW. That’s the different there.

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Guess what bet when they let them lvl to 80 you will be able to use then in sbh dungeons. I'm pretty sure it takes time and resources to add it unless they can just snap there fingers and have it added.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

It just be another worthless add on that I will never use. If want see old quest I would re watch them at the inn. If get nothing for doing the quests why even waste your time. How about they put there funds and add more end game content and more hair styles for the new races. They could also used funds for new game plus for a new healer class. Just like the trust system that I will never use. All ready could run dungeons with my squadron.

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But I only play Hyur and Miqo'te (this account is an alt). Therefore, adding more hair styles for the new races would be a complete waste I would never benefit from.

See how easily that reasoning can be applied to practically anything since different features will appeal to different people? Regardless, you're assuming NG+ cost significantly more than it likely did. There is precisely zero chance this impacted adding new jobs—which only occur in expansion launches.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Guess what bet when they let them lvl to 80 you will be able to use then in sbh dungeons. I'm pretty sure it takes time and resources to add it unless they can just snap there fingers and have it added.

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I find it unlikely for that to happen any time soon. Considering they’re still locked to level 60 and can’t even do Stormblood dungeons yet.

Either way, NG+ didn’t take so much time and resources that it will impact whether 6.0 has two new jobs or not. You’re reaching with that assumption. Like with Ultimate, the vast majority of assets used in NG+ already exist. They aren’t being conjured completely from scratch.

I was a bit disappointed to hear we weren't getting EXP but I am looking forward to replaying the story. I wish they'd just give EXP equal to a normal quest for the level to help leveling alts but I get that is not what this is for. I can't wait to hang out with Emet-Selch and the Crystal Exarch again and I don't feel like leveling an alt just to do that.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

You all might as well forget about talking to Nemmar.
We're all just going around circles with him. He is the only one here
vehemently upset about this. Maybe if you make a topic or thread
and have them consider the thought instead of shooting every other
person on there here thread, maybe they'll take the EXP thing consideration.
It really isn't that serious my friend lol. It's just nothing to get this
worked up over with.

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Circles? Funny. All you do is try to attack me personally rather than talk about the issue or why it shouldn't have XP or how you rudely say i am somehow angry rather than disappointed cause i dared to not worship all things. Like Square enix told us from the start how the feature would be implemented or that we naturally should have expected it to be the minimal effort implementation. I am not interested in your harassment thus you go in circles, yes. Always the same 4-5 attacking everyone who dares express they would have liked the feature to have at least given XP and unable to say why it shouldn't at least have that.

So yes, by all means, do stop replying to me if that's all you got to say. Not to mention constantly misrepresenting what others have said. Like you are the only ones who care about the story and the system cannot possibly be edited to satisfy a larger number of players. So, yes, let's hope they take it into consideration. But even if not, it was still legitimate of me and other to express their disappointment. You don't get to tell us off for that.

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Originally Posted by Machi_Machiavelli

Seeing how the MSQ skip has a giant Gold medal with the number 1 on it, I'm thinking not as many as you think. The story is good, but out of the millions of players, not many want to replay it for the sake of replaying it. If it gave XP I see people using it to lvl up other jobs.

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I don't think level skips are proof for your statement. I'm willing to bet a good chunk of people who skip aren't even new players but people making alts to play with friends on other servers.

Gotta love it when people act like something is worthless because it doesn't appeal to them personally. Well, I will never play Hrothgar so adding them must have been a waste of resources, I guess. I don't like crafting so all the new crafter content is worthless? Savage, Ultimate raids?
NG+ isn't for everyone. It's for those who want to replay the story - cutscenes, out-of-cutscene dialogue, fights and everything else - in its entirety and not because there's a carrot on a stick. And that's fine. I'll be using NG+ to play the story again many times over as different classes and maybe even races and genders over time (without having to level an alt, hallelujah) so this is a worthwhile addition to me.

There are many other things you can do in this game to feel "rewarded" and to level alt jobs.

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

Gotta love it when people act like something is worthless because it doesn't appeal to them personally. Well, I will never play Hrothgar so adding them must have been a waste of resources, I guess. I don't like crafting so all the new crafter content is worthless? Savage, Ultimate raids?
NG+ isn't for everyone. It's for those who want to replay the story - cutscenes, out-of-cutscene dialogue, fights and everything else - in its entirety and not because there's a carrot on a stick. And that's fine. I'll be using NG+ to play the story again many times over as different classes and maybe even races and genders over time (without having to level an alt, hallelujah) so this is a worthwhile addition to me.

There are many other things you can do in this game to feel "rewarded" and to level alt jobs.

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This is off topic and will probably be spun on me again for daring to try and explain. But, yes, those things are indeed worthless to you. When developing a game though, you have to make decisions on what to add and how large the amount of players that would play such a feature and what effect it would have in the games lifespan is, cause you have limited resources. So, your resources should go to the features that most players will make use of or that will benefit the tail end life of the game. I think that in the terms on new game +, it might have been less clear what people really wanted from it. Many have different ideas of what the feature should be and it has not come to the expectation of all. It does NOT mean they don't care about story. It means they care about more than just the story.

So, please let's try to move from that misrepresentation. You can like more than one thing. New game + doesn't have to be only the bare minimum for only those that want to replay the story with nothing else. If something simple like giving xp is gonna interest more players into using the feature, why should one tell them off? How is the feature gonna lose anything from it? Same goes for achievements or difficulty levels or challenges, etc. Let's try to think less in tribalist terms and more in how we can include as many people as possible.
Also because there are other things, doesn't mean there can't be more.

I think they should always reward the apropiate amount of experience and even gil. This goes beyond if a new system is targeted or not to all players, it's just a basic concept for a MMORPG when you ask the player to invest time in any activity.

So while the main purpose of this feature is to replay the MSQ for the story (and that's a reward already if you really like it), the time invested while doing it should always be rewarded in a practical way, and that means experience, even if it's not the same amount as the first time you did it.

And i'm not even saying that it should become an efficient alternative to level other jobs, but it certainly should be an option to add variety to that process.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

This is off topic and will probably be spun on me again for daring to try and explain. But, yes, those things are indeed worthless to you. When developing a game though, you have to make decisions on what to add and how large the amount of players that would play such a feature and what effect it would have in the games lifespan is, cause you have limited resources. So, your resources should go to the features that most players will make use of or that will benefit the tail end life of the game. I think that in the terms on new game +, it might have been less clear what people really wanted from it. Many have different ideas of what the feature should be and it has not come to the expectation of all. It does NOT mean they don't care about story. It means they care about more than just the story.
So, please let's try to move from that misrepresentation. You can like more than one thing. New game + doesn't have to be only the bare minimum. If something simple like giving xp is gonna interest more players into using the feature, why should one tell them off. How is the feature gonna lose anything from it? Let's try to think less in tribalist terms and more in how we can include as many people as possible.

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Worthless to *me*, maybe, but not to *everyone*.

Content doesn't have to always include many people as possible. The things I mentioned don't. How many actually play Hroths or do Ultimate? Very few, especially in regards to Ultimate. NG+ just isn't for the majority of people. Adding EXP is pretty much pointless anyway - if it gives too much, it could nullify the point of things like PotD or HoH for many people. If it gives too little, then why even HAVE exp rewards in the first place? If you really want to do the story again then pitiful little exp rewards shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not you're truly interested. ^^

You want to level an alt job, do PotD, HoH, dungeons, FATEs, or any of the other myriad ways to level. I really, really don't think we need another way to spam exp. SE doesn't seem to think so, either.

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

Worthless to *me*, maybe, but not to *everyone*.

Content doesn't have to always include many people as possible. The things I mentioned don't. How many actually play Hroths or do Ultimate? Very few, especially in regards to Ultimate. NG+ just isn't for the majority of people. Adding EXP is pretty much pointless anyway - if it gives too much, it could nullify the point of things like PotD or HoH for many people. If it gives too little, then why even HAVE exp rewards in the first place? If you really want to do the story again then pitiful little exp rewards shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not you're truly interested. ^^

You want to level an alt job, do PotD, HoH, dungeons, FATEs, or any of the other myriad ways to level. I really, really don't think we need another way to spam exp. SE doesn't seem to think so, either.

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I disagree with that. Why would you not want as many players as possible to enjoy the content? There is a large % of players who play Hroths (not as large as other races, but still considerable in the grand scheme). Challenges in-game extend it's life time, wich is why those are in. They are less about player participation but more about having long term player goals.

Why do you feel it would be pointless to give XP? If you feel it gives too much, maybe it can be adjusted? I do not believe that anything will beat PotD or HoH for xp/minute. The MSQ has a lot of traveling involved. If it gives too little you feel it's pointless? Why? See, i think you feel people either play it for the story or for the xp. Can they not do it for both? It doesn't need to be the best XP/minute. Cause people are doing it for more than just the XP, i would hope.

When NG+ was announced initially, wasn't it announced in the "can replay the story at max level"? Am I misremembering? When I saw that NG+ wouldn't have quest rewards I shrugged and was like, "Well, yeah. You're already max and I don't need my inventory filled with old gear just to splat on the markerboard to devalue it worse than expansion launches already do". I admit I wouldn't mind gil rewards at least, to replenish the amount spent just teleporting around but I guess this is incentive to actually enjoy the scenery whenever I'm replaying the story.

I'd appreciate, and expect, some reward for completing NG+ at least. An achievement, a title, a trinket connected to a NPC prominent in that portion of the MSQ or something. But the quests themselves? I was expecting only gil rewards but not getting those won't stop me from enjoying it.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

I disagree with that. Why would you not want as many players as possible to enjoy the content? There is a large % of players who play Hroths (not as large as other races, but still considerable in the grand scheme). Challenges in-game extend it's life time, wich is why those are in. They are less about player participation but more about having long term player goals.

Why do you feel it would be pointless to give XP? If you feel it gives too much, maybe it can be adjusted? I do not believe that anything will beat PotD or HoH for xp/minute. The MSQ has a lot of traveling involved. If it gives too little you feel it's pointless? Why? See, i think you feel people either play it for the story or for the xp. Can they not do it for both? It doesn't need to be the best XP/minute. Cause people are doing it for more than just the XP, i would hope.

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I've already said why playing it for the exp would be pointless. PotD, HoH, dungeons. Play those for exp. They already exist. Leveling is so hilariously easy.

You'll be doing this on a max leveled character anyway. Does your level 80 need exp?
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And as for those asking for rewards for completing NG+ in it's entirety, why? You're literally just doing pre-existing content. It's even level-synced so no, it won't be a challenge. I don't see why every little thing has to have a reward attached to it nowadays....

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Originally Posted by KyreneV

I think they should always reward the apropiate amount of experience and even gil. This goes beyond if a new system is targeted or not to all players, it's just a basic concept for a MMORPG when you ask the player to invest time in any activity.

So while the main purpose of this feature is to replay the MSQ for the story (and that's a reward already if you really like it), the time invested while doing it should always be rewarded in a practical way, and that means experience, even if it's not the same amount as the first time you did it.

And i'm not even saying that it should become an efficient alternative to level other jobs, but it certainly should be an option to add variety to that process.

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Here's the issue with that, bots. If you add any easy to do, recurring way to earn exp or let alone gil the botters will automatically flock to it with drool dripping down their maws. It's what happened with Frontlines when they introduced exp rewards and there was rarely a match that went by where a good chunk of your team either A. Wasn't running around in circles or B. Intentionally zerging a path to the middle of Shatter to die because even third place was worthwhile. The development team had to nuke the experience offered to a pittance of what they initially were giving us because of them - as well as implement a harsh AFK timer. If any rewards are given for this feature they need to be minuscule and in all honesty at that point it's just better /not/ to tempt fate. At least not while SE seems incapable of handling the bots as they currently seem to be.

Not everything needs a carrot anyways and not every piece of content needs to be rewarding for an individual. I can't stand Eureka and consider it's time investment to be not in any way worth it, but that's okay. It wasn't made for me and I just find other ways to occupy my time.

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It just be another worthless add on that I will never use. If want see old quest I would re watch them at the inn.

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The inn is missing many cutscenes, not to mention the solo instanced fights which is what many people wanting NG+ want anyway.

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

I've already said why playing it for the exp would be pointless. PotD, HoH, dungeons. Play those for exp. They already exist. Leveling is so hilariously easy.

You'll be doing this on a max leveled character anyway. Does your level 80 need exp?
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And as for those asking for rewards for completing NG+ in it's entirety, why? You're literally just doing pre-existing content. It's even level-synced so no, it won't be a challenge. I don't see why every little thing has to have a reward attached to it nowadays....

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If it's restricted to level 80, clearly not. xD

I do think you have an 8-80 opinion that something is either for spamming or not, while there not being room for anything in-between. It's not something i agree with, but fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

If it's restricted to level 80, clearly not. xD

I do think you have an 8-80 opinion that something is either for spamming or not, while there not being room for anything in-between. It's not something i agree with, but fair enough.

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Because people will use it for spamming. It's that simple. Bots, anyone?

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

Because people will use it for spamming. It's that simple. Bots, anyone?

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Do you see flocks of bots in WoW or any other major mmo? Do they not have quest rewards? Bots are an issue that squeenix has to solve on their back end. It's not something to be solved through game design.

As you have said, if it's not the best Xp/minute people won't spam it. They will do it for the story and a bit of XP or gil or whatever they would add. They could spam it, but as long as it's not a very profitable option, it's unlikely they would.

A good example of a missing cutscene from the inn, is the one where ryne and y'shtola is talking to us about how we are feeling. We have three options to choose from, the top I dont remember the second one is telling them we are fine (the one I picked and got reamed by Y'shtola about) and the third option was saying "Yes Mother". I want to replay that as MY Rannie, I want to try the other options to see what is said. I know I can go to Garlond tools and read it or see how funny the reaction to yes mother is at TVtropes but I want to experience it on my main not on my alt. It's those little things that make it worthwhile to me and to others. Does everyone agree? Nope. Do I expect everyone to agree? Nope. Will I hope that those who disagree understand each other and not discount what others are saying? Yes.

Btw I'm saying this again I could care less if NG + has rewards or not.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Do you see flocks of bots in WoW or any other major mmo? Do they not have quest rewards? Bots are an issue that squeenix has to solve on their back end. It's not something to be solved through game design.

As you have said, if it's not the best Xp/minute people won't spam it. They will do it for the story and a bit of XP or gil or whatever they would add. They could spam it, but as long as it's not a very profitable option, it's unlikely they would.

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I wasn't aware this was the WoW forum. And who said to remove quest rewards?? This is about NG+. Level 80 content. For characters who don't even NEED exp in the first place. If it wasn't, bots would ruin it anyway.

None of this matters anyway because SE said it NG+ won't have rewards. They are not likely to change their minds.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

This is off topic and will probably be spun on me again for daring to try and explain. But, yes, those things are indeed worthless to you. When developing a game though, you have to make decisions on what to add and how large the amount of players that would play such a feature and what effect it would have in the games lifespan is, cause you have limited resources. So, your resources should go to the features that most players will make use of or that will benefit the tail end life of the game. I think that in the terms on new game +, it might have been less clear what people really wanted from it. Many have different ideas of what the feature should be and it has not come to the expectation of all. It does NOT mean they don't care about story. It means they care about more than just the story.

So, please let's try to move from that misrepresentation. You can like more than one thing. New game + doesn't have to be only the bare minimum for only those that want to replay the story with nothing else. If something simple like giving xp is gonna interest more players into using the feature, why should one tell them off? How is the feature gonna lose anything from it? Same goes for achievements or difficulty levels or challenges, etc. Let's try to think less in tribalist terms and more in how we can include as many people as possible.
Also because there are other things, doesn't mean there can't be more.

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Just agree to disagree. We move on. That's the end.

I think we should remove the character creation we wouldn't want a bot to abuse it and create a character :)

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Originally Posted by hasana

I think we should remove the character creation we wouldn't want a bot to abuse it and create a character :)

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Except in this game when bots find an exploit they often ruin the gameplay for others. Or are we just ignoring the fact that they shut down access to the East Shroud on more than one server because it was a good place for the program to farm? Even with all the server advancements SE has made it would not be hard to imagine another Raubahn Savage happening with the most profitable MSQ quests if the botters decide to program around them and flood their instances.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Why are you such an angry person? You come in here saying we're all rude, when you continue to be unpleasant in all of your posts, thinking this game should cater strictly to your desires and what you deem worthy or not to be in the game.

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Not that different from some of your responses to be honest.

I'll be totally honest reading through all this stuff, if you're not going to use it and it's not going to bother your gameplay experience why complain about it so adamantly?

Reminds me of the argument Jim Sterling used when people complained about Dark Souls having an easy mode. It was legit "Is this going to affect YOUR gameplay experience if other people have the option to use it? No? Then there's no actual reason for you to complain."

Except this argument is even more ridiculous since this is just giving people the option to replay the old content to experience the reward of the story. That in itself should be all you need, instead of leveling a new character through the beginning just to experience the same content you've already completed on your main. The same frustration of being level locked out of completing a MSQ related dungeon or not being a high enough level to complete a quest.

I know people are upset that it doesn't give any EXP (gil for obvious reasons) but let's be honest if you were going to level that job anyway through normal means the EXP you get from NG+ wouldn't be enough to progress far and you would still be level locked out of completing content anyway just plowing through the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Here's the issue with that, bots. If you add any easy to do, recurring way to earn exp or let alone gil the botters will automatically flock to it with drool dripping down their maws. It's what happened with Frontlines when they introduced exp rewards and there was rarely a match that went by where a good chunk of your team either A. Wasn't running around in circles or B. Intentionally zerging a path to the middle of Shatter to die because even third place was worthwhile. The development team had to nuke the experience offered to a pittance of what they initially were giving us because of them - as well as implement a harsh AFK timer. If any rewards are given for this feature they need to be minuscule and in all honesty at that point it's just better /not/ to tempt fate. At least not while SE seems incapable of handling the bots as they currently seem to be.

Not everything needs a carrot anyways and not every piece of content needs to be rewarding for an individual. I can't stand Eureka and consider it's time investment to be not in any way worth it, but that's okay. It wasn't made for me and I just find other ways to occupy my time.

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I do get your point, i really do, but i disagree with a design philosophy based around making things less enjoyable just in case bots might exploit something. That's their everlasting war, not ours, even if sometimes we get a bad experience because bots abuse something.

Now let me say that even a minuscule reward is better than nothing. As i said, i'm not even suggesting that it should be an efficient way to level a job, just a little extra that adds value to the time invested. If you just want to level a job you'll certainly not use NG+ over PotD/HoH or any other method, but if you want to replay the story then you can do it with a different job if that's your choice and earn some xp in the process. It won't take you all the way to 80, maybe not even from 50 to 52, but it's a good way to make it more worth your time. By the way, even though i'm talking about XP all the time, it's just because since we are talking about quests it seems the most obvious choice, but there are more options.

Not everything needs a carrot? i think that is more accurate to say that not everything needs to have the same type of carrot. time investment = reward is a very basic MMORPG concept, it doesn't always have to be about leveling or becoming more powerful, but there is always something that helps in some way or another to progress or achieve some kind of goal and i don't think that a story you already experienced is enough reward for a game+ system if they want it to be a good long term addition to the game. They might as well just expand the inn's storybook instead of this NG+ if all it has to offer is that story you already played.

I am probably in a minority here, but I make alts to redo the story. Most have not progressed far, as ARR is a slog. I would love to redo the story on my main. I will probably re-run certain stories many times on my main. I am looking forward to re-doing Little Sun. That instance was a blast - even though it took me a few times, as I went in blind and was laughing my butt off when I died. I am sooooo looking forward to this!

Would it be cool if they had rewards for re-doing the story? Sure. I wouldn't mind XP for my jobs that have not hit 80 yet. I'd never say no to Gil. But the SOLE reason I'd do this is for the story. I want to get to know lost friends again. I want to do the (instanced, non-dungeon) fights again. I want to console Tataru when her horrible Carby runs away. I don't want to get the goodies for my feast again, but hey, maybe they'll streamline that out of ARR before it's added and I won't have to. And if they don't I'll suffer through it again just to see how they changed ARR anyhow.

I will do and enjoy this content, as they've shown it. If that is not the case for you, it's not for you. I'm not a raider. I don't have a schedule that would allow for it, and I enjoy other parts of the game more. Would I love the rewards from raiding? Sure, but I'm not going to ask for changes to raiding to make it work for me. If you are not a story person that's ok. This is for people who only want story. For those of us who love the story, the ability to redo it, as is, is enough of a reward.

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

I wasn't aware this was the WoW forum. And who said to remove quest rewards?? This is about NG+. Level 80 content. For characters who don't even NEED exp in the first place. If it wasn't, bots would ruin it anyway.

None of this matters anyway because SE said it NG+ won't have rewards. They are not likely to change their minds.

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Huh? No, this is the FFXIV forum, wich is why bots are an issue that needs resolving. That problem doesn't exist on the most popular mmo's. It will not be fixed by game design, so stop arm-chair trying to design the game cause of bots. It has never has fixed it and it never will. It's a tech problem. They need to fix their tech or sell the gold themselves. This is all off-topic honestly. Stop dragging bots into design discussions guys. I know they are frustrating, but gaming design will not stop them. There is always something they can do as long as the program runs. That is what needs to be stopped.

Yes, i know what they announced. Why do people get so personal over someone saying they would like something to be added when it doesn't affect them in the least? I really don't get it. These forums tire me. If one doesn't speak up, nothing will ever change, no. I just don't get why it's so offensive. I am not denying you anything.

I don't get into the male viera thread saying no they can't have it cause they already got female and that's that. I mean, that's pretty terrible. There would be no point to fan feedback if everyone just resigned themselves to accept only what the devs present. They may not change anything, but these forums are for us to leave our feedback, and sometimes, it might change something.
I mean are you saying this on the housing threads too? Housing is fine, the devs have announced what it is and that's that. If you don't like it, it isn't for you. I dunno, i just can't follow that narrative.

But, fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Huh? No, this is the FFXIV forum, wich is why bots are an issue that needs resolving. That problem doesn't exist on the most popular mmo's. It will not be fixed by game design, so stop arm-chair trying to design the game cause of bots. It has never has fixed it and it never will. It's a tech problem. They need to fix their tech or sell the gold themselves. This is all off-topic honestly. Stop dragging bots into design discussions.

Yes, i know what they announced. Why do people get so personal over someone saying they would like something to be added when it doesn't affect them in the least? I really don't get it. These forums tire me. If one doesn't speak up, nothing will ever change, no. I just don't get why it's so offensive. I am not denying you anything.

I don't into the male viera thread saying no they can't have it cause they already got female and that's that. I mean, that's pretty terrible.

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You're being oddly defensive. Is it that bad that someone disagrees with you about something so insignificant as NG+ exp? And it's not dragging them into anything when they're relevant lmao

You're the only one acting offended, my dude.

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

You're being oddly defensive. Is it that bad that someone disagrees with you about something so insignificant as NG+ exp? And it's not dragging them into anything when they're relevant lmao

You're the only one acting offended, my dude.

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Well cause there are people here saying the new game + system can't be improved cause reasons. If it's insignificant, why do you care so much to deny it? Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed. So the question is in fact, why are you so defensive about it?

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Originally Posted by Noitems

I'll be totally honest reading through all this stuff, if you're not going to use it and it's not going to bother your gameplay experience why complain about it so adamantly?

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Because it's using resources that could've been spent for improving actual content that could use more refining - like blue mage needing a proper overhaul for example.

So people are essentially asking for making it more worthwhile for EVERYONE and not just those niche players who really REALLY want to replay the story without replaying the story (from the start), by adding a few rewards like exp or even glamour so that EVERYONE would take something from it while the niche players, who REALLY want to replay the story, will replay the story.

This reminds me of when they released Verminion back in 3.1: it was advertised as a big content release but not only it died almost instantly due to the fact it required to sacrifice your dungeon queue for another queue, it was mainly a minigame for those who collect pets and nothing more. If you didn't care about pets you probably never cared about verminion, and yet it took a big chunk of resources that could've been used to make diadem worthwhile for more than 24 hours, before they nerfed it to worthless levels.

I just hope this little niche feature won't make POTD 3.0 and Eureka 2.0 a broken mess and delayed because of time constraints, or worse.

PS: Dark Souls is an offline game and FFXIV is an MMORPG, two different genres entirely: I'd compare FFXIV to SWTOR instead, as both rely on storytelling too.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Well cause there are people here saying the new game + system can't be improved cause reasons. If it's insignificant, why do you care so much to deny it? Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed. So the question is in fact, what about this offends YOU so much?

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People are giving their speculation why the devs may not have included exp in it. Theyre making the educated guess that the likely reason the devs dont have it give exp is it could cause some sort of imbalance. This is different from your Point of View, where you speculate they didnt do it cause...lazyness? Theyre incompetent? Or some other failing that is so easily avoidable. We can speculate all we want about it, but at the end of the day the devs did not incorporate exp into it for whatever their reasoning is. And your assertion that there's no good reason relies on you ignoring everyone elses position regarding this.

If were gonna discuss why it might possibly cause issues, a pretty straightforward point is that youre hoping it would have exp as a means to replace other leveling methods. For that to be satisfactory, it would need to incorporate roughly the same exp rate if not better. And when you get to doing that, then its a point of min maxing. All it takes is one person to figure out the math and point out that running "Chapter X" over and over is faster than anything else. Im willing to bet that in that case, said chapter probably will be predominately a dialogue chapter. It is most likely that if no exp is involved, it has specifically to do with some variation of this point. Now you may not like this. You may think its stupid. You may think "Who cares if I can do this!" but the Devs care, and theyre priority is to the game and their company. You dont like it, well, sucks to suck but thats tough beans.

If you dont think the min/maxing is a thing then let me point you to POTD. For a while, the fastest way to level was spamming floors 50-59. Or how about Doma Castle? That was just pull to the first boss then quit and repeat. People are clever about min maxing. With as expansive as the MSQ is and the ability to pinpoint a direct point in the story, what makes you think that this wont happen either? Particularly if exp from NG+ were to scale with level. Fairly certain that for overall game health, it probably wouldnt be good to depopulate content that requires gameplay in favor of other content that can be done by spamming left click.

Again this is speculation, but its grounded in basic thinking here and pointing to previous examples that are/were in the game. Its just an explanation as to why the devs might not want it to give exp. Its not offensive to players if it were, but were not complaining and dismissing any possible reason why it doesnt outside of "The Devs Suck".

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Well cause there are people here saying the new game + system can't be improved cause reasons. If it's insignificant, why do you care so much to deny it? Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed. So the question is in fact, why are you so defensive about it?

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...how am I being defensive? Again, you're the only one being defensive. Your first reply to me was you immediately acting like a victim in the first sentence lmao. Also, you'd do well not to make assumptions, might help people take you more seriously.
And I have many more reasons. Biggest being it's LEVEL 80 content. Level 80s can't gain exp. So. it's literally 100% pointless to have exp rewards.

It's also pointless to try and point out this obvious fact to you since you seem to take every little disagreement as a personal slight against you.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

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Omg! its not actual content because "It doesnt fit my narrow perception of what content is."

LoV, whether you like it or not, was content. It was content for pet lovers or for GS people. But this argument that it has to appease the broadest audience otherwise it shouldnt be implemented is like saying Ultimate should not have been added cause a very small cross section of the population play it. Zoom that out a touch, and you include savage too, as a minority of players actually engage in that content. Hell, both eat your dungeon queues too and took resources from Eureka/Diadem/regular dungeons/etc.

When people argue about resources, it almost always boils down to subjective views of what is 'real content' that is defined very ambiguously. The assumption is that if this thing wasnt developed, the "real content" would be developed better. There is no evidence this would be the case. Plenty of anecdote that the game would be a lot more sparse in things you can do though. The thing is, if you can play it, its content. You may not like it, it may not be for everyone, but it's still content. And the devs Im pretty sure nixed possible exp not out of making sure the audience was niche lore players, but probably out of pragmatic reasons and game health.

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Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

...how am I being defensive? Again, you're the only one being defensive. Your first reply to me was you immediately acting like a victim in the first sentence lmao. Also, you'd do well not to make assumptions, might help people take you more seriously.
And I have many more reasons. Biggest being it's LEVEL 80 content. Level 80s can't gain exp. So. it's literally 100% pointless to have exp rewards.

It's also pointless to try and point out this obvious fact to you since you seem to take every little disagreement as a personal slight against you.

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I am pretty sure that it's one level 80 required to unlock it. But you are being disingenuous on purpose. They can very much let you level low level jobs if they so will. It is not something set it stone forever more. Game design is subject to change. If not, ARR would never have happened. So, it is odd to see players here saying such things.

Anyways, i think that is all. It's not a personal disagreement but an uncomprehensible action from people, as it doesn't affect them in the least and would in fact make the feature more popular, wich would be good for everyone that wants to enjoy it. So, really, i don't understand the fixation in just digging in and saying "it's for me not for you" so it can't get any improvements that would allow more people to enjoy it! It seems like there is something here that people are uncomfortable to admit or come to terms with by recurring to exaggeration like Xp amount could never be balanced or amount of gil or whatever new features. Or maybe just like to be disagreeable? I dunno. Either way i already said we can agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

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This isn't really big worthwhile content though. Really all they need to do is just rewrite the script for putting you into each chapter and just plop you in like that. The fact they're retooling the ARR MSQ and planning it work along with NG+ is pretty big as that's going to affect new players coming in and stream lining the experience.

As I stated before you don't really need to do that though. Current options through rous and dungeons are eons better then the experience the MSQ would give you at that level if it offered them. I know people want to die on this hill it should have bonuses but I don't get a bonus for playing a visual novel again completely past seeing the minor options and leisure of it all, which NG+ is being advertised as just reliving the story. I'm using a visual novel as a main point as well since you keep bringing up the story, and with NG+'s main feature being the story it seems like a good comparison.

Another point I see and want to ask, did SE at any point say you would actually get any rewards from these NG+ runs? They said you could redo the quests but I don't remember them ever saying you would get anything past the story That's just putting out expectations for SE because YOU think it would happen only to be angry they didn't meet them.

I wouldn't really compare a mode (or limited job) with brand new assets/ huge amounts of scripting to a mode that is just letting you replay the story again with minor scripting. NG+ is easy to update as it's just like pressing a reset button while you're in the mode, adding brand new elements and balances are asking for a lot more then making your slate clean which a big part of the reason Verminion never gets updated (on top of the lacking playerbase). By comparison Mahjong (something people thought was a worthless addition) still gets updated because it's easy to do and is just simply adjusting score values that are set in stone because of the game it is.

The reason I use Dark Souls is because Dark Souls is a JRPG, just like XIV is an MMOJRPG. It doesn't matter if the game is online or not the fact is both games have optional modes you're not being forced into doing, yet people want to make a big stink over it because of ridiculous reasons and claim that they are completely worthless since they don't suit them.

For the record I'm okay with calling SE out on their BS for things that make sense (Housing, Eureka future proofing, botting), this whole argument doesn't do that though. You're putting your own words in their mouths and then being angry they aren't parroting them back to you. It's just a simple mode to let people re-enjoy the story either solo or with friends, it doesn't deserve the absolute hate you're giving it.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

I am pretty sure that it's one level 80 required to unlock it. But you are being disingenuous on purpose. They can very much let you level low level jobs if they so will. It is not something set it stone forever more. Game design is subject to change. If not, ARR would never have happened. So, it is odd to see players here saying such things.

Anyways, i think that is all. It's not a personal disagreement but an uncomprehensible action from people, as it doesn't affect you in the least and would in fact make the feature more popular, wich would be good for everyone that wants to enjoy it. So, really, i don't understand the fixation in just digging in and saying it's for me not for you so it can't get any improvements that would allow more people to enjoy it! It seems like there is something here that people are uncomfortable to admit or come to terms with. Or maybe just like to be disagreeable? I dunno. Either way i already said we can agree to disagree.

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Yeah since you seem to not be capable of reading posts and for some reason ignore everything else said in this thread I'm just going to stop replying after this to save my own sanity