CNJ = WHM and THM = BLM

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11-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coglin

So?

Look at its japanese name.

Illusionist?. . . I still don't see how Illusionist/Elementalist = WHM when Miracle Worker = BLM. . .
11-09-2011, 11:42 AM
Darkhaund

Mmmmm

Am I the only one that thinks that they are making up a frankenstein of a game?
Seems that their desire or need to keep some elements from the game is making it worse than better.

All this cnj with al the nukes will be the whm makes no sense at all
11-09-2011, 11:44 AM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Mmmmm

Am I the only one that thinks that they are making up a frankenstein of a game?
Seems that their desire or need to keep some elements from the game is making it worse than better.

All this cnj with al the nukes will be the whm makes no sense at all

IDK, you still need a part of THM to become a WHM anyway. . .
11-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Betelgeuzah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

Illusionist?. . . I still don't see how Illusionist/Elementalist = WHM when Miracle Worker = BLM. . .

Basically every single one of THM's spells aside from dia and banish scream Black Mage. Whatever history the word thaumaturgy has is not relevant considering it has not been relevant until now either.

In fact, this game would be much better off if the elemental nukes were removed completely or combined together. The game needs focused actions that have always a use, preferably multidimensional at that. The franchise traditions are crippling it's evolution into something much better. CNJ can have elemental nukes that have nothing to do with Black Magic of past FF's and XIV's BLM does not 'need' elemental nukes either.
11-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Coglin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

Illusionist?. . . I still don't see how Illusionist/Elementalist = WHM when Miracle Worker = BLM. . .

LMAO thats not even close, where did you come up with that ?
11-09-2011, 11:58 AM
whoopeeragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynn

I'm not sure how to react to this. I would say nukes are a fundamental aspect of CNJ and are NOT a fundamental aspect of THM. So is he saying THM will not get the nukes? Will BLM be reduced to a debuff class and elemental nukes will just go unused since melee will be screaming "Stop casting Fire II and HEAL!!!1!!"?

Please tell me I misunderstand the implications of this.

Twelve forbid jobs taking abilities from more than just their own branching class. I haven't specifically seen a post saying that jobs are limited to their own branching class, just that they get less diverse options (unless I somehow missed out on that very important point). So the elemental skills may be available for Black Mages to take from the Conjurer branch.
11-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Aion

your THM need fire,water etc from CNJ and when turn up to BLM you will get Fira,blizzara etc and -ga spells.. I think it will be like that...then I hope Fire II will different from Fira...Im just speculating
11-09-2011, 12:00 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coglin

LMAO thats not even close, where did you come up with that ?

Multiple websites, translators, Japanese -> English dictionaries, the Japanese teacher at my school.
Trust me when it comes to lore (Especially in FF) I make sure to do my research. I love lore and myths. :)
11-09-2011, 12:02 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Basically every single one of THM's spells aside from dia and banish scream Black Mage. Whatever history the word thaumaturgy has is not relevant considering it has not been relevant until now either.

In fact, this game would be much better off if the elemental nukes were removed completely or combined together. The game needs focused actions that have always a use, preferably multidimensional at that. The franchise traditions are crippling it's evolution into something much better. CNJ can have elemental nukes that have nothing to do with Black Magic of past FF's and XIV's BLM does not 'need' elemental nukes either.

Would you care to list the spells that resemble BLM to me?
I'm pretty sure someone made a list of all the CNJ and THM spells a while back. What was it. . . Klive? Something like that. . . Or maybe I don't remember at all. xD
11-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Coglin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

Multiple websites, translators, Japanese -> English dictionaries, the Japanese teacher at my school.
Trust me when it comes to lore (Especially in FF) I make sure to do my research. I love lore and myths. :)

You making up words?

呪術士 is a far through from illusionist
11-09-2011, 12:10 PM
Betelgeuzah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

Would you care to list the spells that resemble BLM to me?
I'm pretty sure someone made a list of all the CNJ and THM spells a while back. What was it. . . Klive? Something like that. . . Or maybe I don't remember at all. xD

Posting from my phone so nope. Lots of names dealing with dark, blood, shadow etc. I'd be impressed if you can manage to build a WHM or even a miracle worker out of blood rite, gravity, drain, shadowsear, and similar spells.

I wouldn't necessarily showhorn elemental magic into 'black magic' although that might be the tradition. All this dark, bloody, shadowy stuff is much more straightforward.
11-09-2011, 12:13 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coglin

You making up words?

呪術士 is a far through from illusionist

That is Thaumaturge though. . . Which when translated can mean Holy. . .
11-09-2011, 12:14 PM
Chezen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! I wanted to pass along a couple of posts from Yoshida regarding the upcoming class adjustment schedule.

/happiness ^^
11-09-2011, 12:16 PM
Klive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

Would you care to list the spells that resemble BLM to me?
I'm pretty sure someone made a list of all the CNJ and THM spells a while back. What was it. . . Klive? Something like that. . . Or maybe I don't remember at all. xD

That was me, I did lost a research, looking into previous FF titles, and current lore to get a justified belief of which class to each job.

Here is the thread (post #37)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...dmg-mage/page4

Honestly. The CNJ spell list is more of a copy and paste job from the Scholar from FF11.
here is the link to the Scholar Spell list in FF11.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Scholar
11-09-2011, 12:17 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chezen

/happiness ^^

Lol I completely missed that post T.T But, anyways YAY!
11-09-2011, 12:18 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

That was me, I did lost a research, looking into previous FF titles, and current lore to get a justified belief of which class to each job.

Here is the thread (post #37)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...dmg-mage/page4

I thought so. I would have done the same myself if I had not seen your post first. :)
11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Coglin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

That is Thaumaturge though. . . Which when translated can mean Holy. . .

Pasted wrong word.

But no it translates to magician most accurately.
11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Betelgeuzah

That research ignores completely everything that wasn't in XI. Every spell that wasn't in that list but which THN possesses makes it a much stronger candidate for being a BLM. XI's BLM may as well be called an elementalist, while XIV's is darker and more evil/or absolute.

There is no reason why WHM can not be an elementalist at the same time. All its spells can be linked to elements. Nor that THM can not be a controller of both light and dark. BLM can obtain some natural elements from CNJ while giving up the light element and WHM can obtain the light element from THM while giving up some of its natural elements.
11-09-2011, 12:29 PM
Klive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

That research ignores completely everything that wasn't in XI. Every spell that wasn't in that list but which THN possesses makes it a much stronger candidate for being a BLM. XI's BLM may as well be called an elementalist, while XIV's is darker and more evil.

I agree, but I wasn't going to repost everything I have ever posted on this topic. There are 3 or 4 old threads on this topic and I don't wish to spam this thread. The jobs were put out and making 99.999% of my points useless.
11-09-2011, 12:39 PM
EdenArchangel

So.... can this news be interpreted as major changes from the base happening later, in time for introduction of jobs?
I can't be a black mage without elemental nukes, lol
11-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Inaaca

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

So.... can this news be interpreted as major changes from the base happening later, in time for introduction of jobs?
I can't be a black mage without elemental nukes, lol

I think it should be interpreted as more concrete information is coming very soon.
11-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Bowen

Well, I just want to be able to lvl BLM and SMN and not have to be healz
. . . People die when I heal. . . Ask anyone who has partied w/ me on Lindbulm. . .
11-09-2011, 01:44 PM
Darkhaund

I think they should have just remade everything instead of trying to fix this broken armory system
11-09-2011, 01:49 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhaund

I think they should have just remade everything instead of trying to fix this broken armory system

I like the concept of the Armory system. There is nothing wrong with it in concept really, just that the way the previous dev team made it was not really... good. They could have done a lot better. I respect Yoshi since he is trying really hard to fix this game. Little by little things are changing. And I have faith that by 2.0 we will have the game FFXIV deserved to be.
11-09-2011, 02:02 PM
Klive

dropped my taco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

I like the concept of the Armory system. There is nothing wrong with it in concept really, just that the way the previous dev team made it was not really... good. They could have done a lot better. I respect Yoshi since he is trying really hard to fix this game. Little by little things are changing. And I have faith that by 2.0 we will have the game FFXIV deserved to be.

The armory system, in my humble opinion, was doomed at inception. Something I have noticed after years of video games, table top gaming, and design; more degrees of freedom you give players harder it is to balance the game. The armory system with custom stats, custom classes, and gear had an insane level of freedom to players. Players, by the nature of being a player, try to min/max stats until they will break the system. From what I can tell, Yoshi is walking a fine line of keeping as many degrees of freedom to keep players happy and subversively add restrictions to balance game play.
11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

The armory system, in my humble opinion, was doomed at inception. Something I have noticed after years of video games, table top gaming, and design; more degrees of freedom you give players harder it is to balance the game. The armory system with custom stats, custom classes, and gear had an insane level of freedom to players. Players, by the nature of being a player, try to min/max stats until they will break the system. From what I can tell, Yoshi is walking a fine line of keeping as many degrees of freedom to keep players happy and subversively add restrictions to balance game play.

Liked because I lol'd.
11-09-2011, 02:15 PM
Dreamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

The armory system, in my humble opinion, was doomed at inception. Something I have noticed after years of video games, table top gaming, and design; more degrees of freedom you give players harder it is to balance the game.

*points at Eve Online*
11-09-2011, 02:25 PM
Klive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer

*points at Eve Online*

Sorry, never played it. Please post more info so I can understand what your point is exactly. I can only assume it gives a large amount a freedom to players and is balanced; is your point.
11-09-2011, 02:31 PM
Duuude007

In an effort to close the gap in these WHM/BLM arguments, I have performed an analysis of the canonical backgrounds that FFXIV has provided, and posted in the topic HERE. I pray that this analysis will quell most peoples' concerns, if they view it objectively.
11-09-2011, 04:20 PM
Dreamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

Sorry, never played it. Please post more info so I can understand what your point is exactly. I can only assume it gives a large amount a freedom to players and is balanced; is your point.

Classless. Level-less. Every character can basically do everything, given enough time. Zero restrictions on what skills you can train. Everything is player driven.

I'm not a player of the game simply because I'm not a fan of the genre, but I really adore the overall game design.
11-09-2011, 07:41 PM
Claire_Pendragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Every One In The Thread

The Glass (CNJ) is half empty, therefor it should be considered empty! It's not even a whole glass!

NO! The Glass (THM) is half full, therefor it should be considered full! You round up 0.5 to the whole number 1!

This sums up the whole thread.
11-09-2011, 11:00 PM
Jovy

I'm for whatever changes necessary inorder for me to have an effective nuker. I dont care what skills or abilities they shuffle to make this happen. Most have both jobs leveled anyways so who cares which is which as long as it works. SE please dont make content for NUKERS.... i dont need the threads filled with people ranting about how Moogles can only be done with 7 mages and 1 tank. BALANCE IT!!! Before you release the patch.
11-09-2011, 11:29 PM
RemVye

Why is this thread still open?
11-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Bowen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

That research ignores completely everything that wasn't in XI. Every spell that wasn't in that list but which THN possesses makes it a much stronger candidate for being a BLM. XI's BLM may as well be called an elementalist, while XIV's is darker and more evil/or absolute.

Um, your assuming what BLM is going to be before it is realeased. We have to wait before we see if it is still an Elementalist or something more dark/Evil magic.
Black Mages/Black Magic in general have never been 'evil' they just used the offensive side of spells. I mean look at Vivi from FFIX. He was FAR from evil. And Lulu. She had a little goth thing going on but, that is hardly evil.
11-09-2011, 11:48 PM
Betelgeuzah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowen

Um, your assuming what BLM is going to be before it is realeased. We have to wait before we see if it is still an Elementalist or something more dark/Evil magic.
Black Mages/Black Magic in general have never been 'evil' they just used the offensive side of spells. I mean look at Vivi from FFIX. He was FAR from evil. And Lulu. She had a little goth thing going on but, that is hardly evil.

I agree that they have never been 'evil' per-se. Well, neither is thaumaturgy really. Being absolute or lawful-chaos type would still be a good fit for it.
11-10-2011, 12:01 AM
Malakhim

Giving Black Mage and White Mage actual affinities seems to be what they're trying to do this time around.
11-10-2011, 01:27 AM
Buuul

A good mage in this game has both CON and THM at level 50 right now. End of story. Which class turns into which job is a non-issue if you take mage seriously.
11-10-2011, 04:25 AM
Answa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynn

A THM has two basic attack (nuke) spells and one other that they get later on. I would not call that fundamental to the role of THM. Status effects are a defining characteristic however.

Maybe you should've read this sentence?

Quote:

Following that we will be announcing the new abilities, actions and traits for each class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RemVye

Why is this thread still open?

Because the devs posted on it with more bait. :P
11-10-2011, 04:33 AM
Wynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Answa

Maybe you should've read this sentence?

No, I read it. But I also read this, which makes the point you are trying to make irrelevant:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Our next class revamps will not alter the fundamentals of each class.

As such, some details will be changed, but there will not be any major changes for classes.
11-10-2011, 04:39 AM
RemVye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buuul

A good mage in this game has both CON and THM at level 50 right now. End of story. Which class turns into which job is a non-issue if you take mage seriously.

inb4 "BUT BUT BUT I DON' WAHHNAHH LEVEL ANYTHING I DON WAAHHHNAHHH LEVEL *WAHHHH WAHHHH*"

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