Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

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Originally Posted by Teiren

DRK still runs out of TP eventually, though it takes a long time like the other Disciples of War except Paladin.

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No, DRK runs out just as fast as paladin. The buff to blood weapon was to ensure they didn't run out faster than PLD when using it due to the attack speed buff. DRK and PLD are in the same spot in regards to tp issues.

Testing dummies at typical gear for this patch has PLDs running out at about 2:30 whilst DRKs last 3:10, I believe mostly due to the applications of scourge in that time saving TP.

Also as OT DRK can use unmend to get about 50tp back but PLD has no way of doing damage in a GCD whilst restoring TP. Also clemency is currently close to useless.

Also in terms of potency lost in that GCD with reference to TP gained, Unmend lets 40 more TP restore at the cost of only 60 potency which makes it a vastly better TP return to dps loss skill (in the region of 5x more efficient) with the added detriment of small MP loss.

From a pure TP standpoint DRK MT and OT is better off than PLD by a fair margin, it could however get a few more tools without being unreasonable. DRK is the closest tank to being in the right place, with consistently viable restoring options in MT and OT positions, PLD needs a buff to swipe and a QoL style fix to Clemency.

WAR TP management is OP and needs a change, infinite single target TP is obviously OP and in multiple mob scenarios WAR was already far more capable of AoE tanking than PLD in 2.x with steel cyclone and a well chosen number of overwhelms (and a couple flashes as backup). The current justification for it is so WAR can AoE without cyclone or completely in its DPS stance and hold hate - or if not tanking, to make sure it out AoE DPSs DRK by its current margin. None of these things seem like requirements to me and if a skill is so powerful it is making skills as good as steel cyclone redundant, it needs looking at. Between equilibrium and stack WS, WAR TP management is too easy/forgiving.

There are multiple things that can be done to WAR, no more than ONE of:
- Make equilibrium always be the heal, WAR still has awesome TP management from stack abilities.
- Make stack abilities also have a 60tp cost, leaving WAR still better off than the other two jobs but by requiring eventual TP maintenance.
- Add a TP cost to stance dancing.

One of these combined with decent PLD options would make tanks need paeon or a break at roughly the same point in the fight, ideally at the same time as most DPS.

Ref on AoE DPS: WAR is 20% ahead of DRK, 80% on PLD
http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/7#b...nks&dataset=80

I'm glad Yoshi P doesn't make the balance decisions.

Just to throw this out there, something I've been thinking about is the respective tank debuffs. I realize they're supposed to create synergy between WAR, PLD and DRK, but with Storm's Path being superior to both Halone and Delirium, I'd either normalize the three debuffs (make all three decrease target damage by 10%) or change Storm's Path to decrease damage taken by only the WAR by 10%. Assuming we go with the former, we would also get rid of the INT debuff on Dragon Kick (to not suddenly force MNKs into every raid again) and change Reprisal (45s cooldown, no parry requirement, applies INT and STR debuff on the target for 15s).

Once that is done, utility is sort of clear cut. Assuming the former, PLD would have Divine Veil, DRK would have Reprisal. Both of which would have low enough uptime that I'd think it wouldn't make them superior to WAR if left as is. If, for some reason, PLD and DRK outweigh WAR because they have Divine Veil and Reprisal, then add the following to Inner Beast (additional effect: target fixates on you, dealing 10% less damage to other party members for 6s while still dealing full damage to you).

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Originally Posted by rawker

Sure... If I only burn my entire TP load spamming Rage of Halone combo as MT, like ARR, I wouldn't worry DPS or Healers to catch up on threat. But since PLDs are now given weapon skills that does not have increased enmity slapped into them, we, at the very least, be given the resources to actually use it without worrying that we will run out of TP for our enmity combo.

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Er sorry, maybe I was being confusing? Rage of Halone combo is just as much TP as the other combos, and I agree with you. I meant to say that I disagree completely with the current TP design for all Jobs and that it hurts Paladin the most because of no TP Regeneration/Reduction action.

There's no real TP management outside of limiting AoE. TP is simply: Use until empty, then have your DPS cut in half or worse. However, for a situation like Ravana Extreme where you know you absolutely do not want to run out of TP during Scorpion Avatar, that's different. That is an interesting choice to save TP if you're low, but situations like that are the exception by far. I would certainly like to see a lot more fights like Ravana.

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Originally Posted by Habien

No, DRK runs out just as fast as paladin. The buff to blood weapon was to ensure they didn't run out faster than PLD when using it due to the attack speed buff. DRK and PLD are in the same spot in regards to tp issues.

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If you never drop Grit, that's true, but with Blood Weapon if you're using TP 10% more often while using 20% less TP, is that not a net gain? Maybe I'm missing something.

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Originally Posted by Teiren

Er sorry, maybe I was being confusing? Rage of Halone combo is just as much TP as the other combos, and I agree with you. I meant to say that I disagree completely with the current TP design for all Jobs and that it hurts Paladin the most because of no TP Regeneration/Reduction action.

There's no real TP management outside of limiting AoE. TP is simply: Use until empty, then have your DPS cut in half or worse. However, for a situation like Ravana Extreme where you know you absolutely do not want to run out of TP during Scorpion Avatar, that's different. That is an interesting choice to save TP if you're low, but situations like that are the exception by far. I would certainly like to see a lot more fights like Ravana.

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No. Not confusing at all. If we will factor in the amount of threat generated per TP will be lower by a great amount if we use nothing but Halone Combo versus maximizing our DPS in which the other 2 tanks is a non-issue. To that we both agree.

I just can't understand why WAR and DRK have multiple AoEs that generate extra enmity while PLDs can't have that perk. WARs can even cross Flash if ever they run out of TP(some people do) so it's easier to face pull trash.

Flash doing AoE damage would help quite a bit. It'll be interesting to see what sort of adjustments are made to ensure that our damage is more in line with WAR and DRK.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Just to throw this out there, something I've been thinking about is the respective tank debuffs. I realize they're supposed to create synergy between WAR, PLD and DRK, but with Storm's Path being superior to both Halone and Delirium, I'd either normalize the three debuffs (make all three decrease target damage by 10%) or change Storm's Path to decrease damage taken by only the WAR by 10%. Assuming we go with the former, we would also get rid of the INT debuff on Dragon Kick (to not suddenly force MNKs into every raid again) and change Reprisal (45s cooldown, no parry requirement, applies INT and STR debuff on the target for 15s).

Once that is done, utility is sort of clear cut. Assuming the former, PLD would have Divine Veil, DRK would have Reprisal. Both of which would have low enough uptime that I'd think it wouldn't make them superior to WAR if left as is. If, for some reason, PLD and DRK outweigh WAR because they have Divine Veil and Reprisal, then add the following to Inner Beast (additional effect: target fixates on you, dealing 10% less damage to other party members for 6s while still dealing full damage to you).

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Seems like a good plan of action for dealing with utility concerns quickly and simply, though I'd personally find that Inner Beast re-balance rather awkward, and quite likely further (over)empowering. We can pop up to 4 of those per minute with 15% skill speed... How would Divine Veil or Reprisal possibly compete with that? Not to mention that they get an extra half-CD Provoke? That being said, I think Warrior in its current state (not that I'm particular happy with its current dps balance against the other two tanks) can keep its viability just fine without providing any bonus raid utility, so it should be alright without that change.

Barring all that... to be honest, just having Storm's Path sap just the greater of Int or Str stats, stacking with DK/Del/RoH, or dropping the percentile to 8% would probably bring it in line with the other two on average (just, sadly, with fight-specific niches and weaknesses as in A4 - which is why I'd prefer your idea, or larger revisions entirely).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Seems like a good plan of action for dealing with utility concerns quickly and simply, though I'd personally find that Inner Beast re-balance rather awkward, and quite likely further (over)empowering. We can pop up to 4 of those per minute with 15% skill speed... How would Divine Veil or Reprisal possibly compete with that? Not to mention that they get an extra half-CD Provoke?

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The wording is a bit deceptive (the "fixates on you" part is more for flavor rather than indicative of what the effect actually does), but I was simply copying how taunts worked in Warhammer Online. Basically, the taunts tanks had for PvE would be used in PvP by taunting an enemy player, reducing the damage dealt by that enemy player to anything other than the tank that taunted them.

If putting it on Inner Beast is too much, it might work if put on Vengeance (additional effect: target deals 5% less damage to targets other than you for 15s), Holmgang (additional effect: target deals 10% less damage to targets other than you for 6s), or Fel Cleave (reduce the potency to 400 to balance it out). If that doesn't work, there's always Rallying Cry, but that'd require adding a new ability or changing Thrill of Battle to work like it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The wording is a bit deceptive (the "fixates on you" part is more for flavor rather than indicative of what the effect actually does), but I was simply copying how taunts worked in Warhammer Online. Basically, the taunts tanks had for PvE would be used in PvP by taunting an enemy player, reducing the damage dealt by that enemy player to anything other than the tank that taunted them.

If putting it on Inner Beast is too much, it might work if put on Vengeance (additional effect: target deals 5% less damage to targets other than you for 15s), Holmgang (additional effect: target deals 10% less damage to targets other than you for 6s), or Fel Cleave (reduce the potency to 400 to balance it out). If that doesn't work, there's always Rallying Cry, but that'd require adding a new ability or changing Thrill of Battle to work like it.

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Ahh, like Obsess in 1.0... sorta.

Honestly, either Holmgang or especially Thrill of Battle seem like they'd be about perfect if WAR really did need to take back some raid utility for its balance. I don't especially like the idea of it having the same CD as Divine Veil, with even faster activation, but that's just a trifle. Rallying Cry would be especially nice in that it'd be par for the course for WAR, and wouldn't be any more immediate or powerful than Divine Veil. Being able to make Thrill of Battle multi-stage, where, after applying the original CD effect, you can cut its effect to 75% or 50% while making raidwide, would probably work pretty well.

To be honest, the whole 'fixate' concept and how it might apply itself to raid mitigation kind of just makes me wish there was more to the undermechanics of tanking, and to enemy AI, than there is currently.

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Originally Posted by rawker

No. Not confusing at all. If we will factor in the amount of threat generated per TP will be lower by a great amount if we use nothing but Halone Combo versus maximizing our DPS in which the other 2 tanks is a non-issue. To that we both agree.

I just can't understand why WAR and DRK have multiple AoEs that generate extra enmity while PLDs can't have that perk. WARs can even cross Flash if ever they run out of TP(some people do) so it's easier to face pull trash.

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Oh, spend more TP to get the same enmity as well as not being able to focus on non-enmity combos as much as DRK. Duh, I wasn't thinking, haha. Yeah, assuming all enmity multipliers on Rage of Halone/Power Slash/Butcher's Block are the same (and I'm assuming they are: 5x), that certainly is a problem.

Is there testing that someone has posted somewhere to prove that Flash is less enmity than Unleash or Overpower? To be fair, Overpower probably should do a little more enmity because of the huge TP cost. Then again, maybe WAR having no TP problems outside of AoE enmity generation as well as being able to use Flash balances that already?


Btw, there is literally a "Rallying Cry" ability in the game already: http://xivdb.com/?skill/1561/Thrill-of-War
Honestly, a lot of the PVP actions could have been put to good use and retooled as the new job actions in Heavensward, but I can understand why they're wary of enabling them in PVE even in an altered form. I really, really hope that for the next expansion they remove cross-class actions (the whole system is a total failure once you promote to a Job anyway) and replace them with some form of the PVP actions. I thought they'd do that for this expansion, but oh well.

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Originally Posted by Teiren

Btw, there is literally a "Rallying Cry" ability in the game already: http://xivdb.com/?skill/1561/Thrill-of-War
Honestly, a lot of the PVP actions could have been put to good use and retooled as the new job actions in Heavensward, but I can understand why they're wary of enabling them in PVE even in an altered form. I really, really hope that for the next expansion they remove cross-class actions (the whole system is a total failure once you promote to a Job anyway) and replace them with some form of the PVP actions. I thought they'd do that for this expansion, but oh well.

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Heh now that's what I call a wasted ability.

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Originally Posted by Teiren

Yeah, assuming all enmity multipliers on Rage of Halone/Power Slash/Butcher's Block are the same (and I'm assuming they are: 5x)...

Is there testing that someone has posted somewhere to prove that Flash is less enmity than Unleash or Overpower?

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At current, I believe RoH lags behind the others in enmity multiplier (5x compared to the other two's 5.5x). The excuse for this was that the 2nd step of the enmity combo is used in one of PLD's 2 dps combos, RA, while the other two tanks' non-enmity combos have no enmity component whatsoever, but even Savage Blade similarly has .5x less en-mod than Spinning Slash and Skull Sunder, iirc, severely nerfing it in any content of pure enmity. Personally I'd like to see SB increased to 3.75x (compared to its equivalents' 3.5x) and RoH potency increased to 270 or 280 but enmity mod increased to only to 5.25x (compared to 5.5x), or whatever puts their combined ePot in line with BB and PS combo. If that puts PLD too far ahead in average effective potency over 3 combos or 21 to 24 seconds, however, then maybe even leave SB low, but definitely increase RoH's enmity mod further; they shouldn't have to suffer in burst enmity (comparing without CDs) just because their average enmity is higher -- as long as they're not pulling off the MT when in Sword Oath, that's fine and largely fitting for a PLD.

Flash has basically the same base enmity as Unleash and Overpower. The problem is that it doesn't scale with offensive CDs, while the others do, and cannot crit. As such, while a Warrior with Maim or Dark Knight with Darkside up can tank for 3 equally-geared (to the WAR) Monks each on a different target by simply spamming Overpower or Unleash, a Paladin spamming Flash wouldn't be able to do the same, even with FoF up.

I was keeping up on the Blitzball blog way back when the game first came out, but that stopped being updated ages ago. So wow, I didn't know that about enmity multipliers. I don't even know what to say. That's so incredibly poor, flawed, and practically illogical that I don't even know where to start. Um, your ideas are good at the very least.

And oh yeah, I forgot that about Flash because it's been a while since I've seriously played PLD. I knew I was forgetting something, ha.

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Originally Posted by Teiren

I was keeping up on the Blitzball blog way back when the game first came out, but that stopped being updated ages ago. So wow, I didn't know that about enmity multipliers. I don't even know what to say. That's so incredibly poor, flawed, and practically illogical that I don't even know where to start. Um, your ideas are good at the very least.

And oh yeah, I forgot that about Flash because it's been a while since I've seriously played PLD. I knew I was forgetting something, ha.

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It made perfect sense back when the classes were designed and implemented. It only makes no sense in the context of HW + a bit of 20/20 hindsight (Savage) exacerbating the problem.

Which I'm a bit uncertain as to why it hasn't been addressed yet; possibly them delaying fixes until 3.1. The problem itself probably wasn't noticeable during the first round of adjustments (focused on the 3 newer classes).

If a Warrior was using all 3 combos while tanking, I can sort of see why the enmity multipliers had to be higher, yeah. Just crazy how things fall apart so simply, yet I think they can be fixed just as simply too, so that gives me hope.

Surprised no one mentions flashes blind effect which reduces aggro of attacks by others, oh wait raid mobs immune to blind, that don 't help 0.0. They need to rework sheltron imo, i find kinda pointless, already block pretty often without it. When i first saw skill i was like yeah i get to block one full attack, all damage and when i first tested it it was like oh i block with shield YAWN! Then i was psyched at having more rotations of course other rotations had 0 enmity to them so without tons gear i was at times just RoH to keep aggro. Paladin still underwhelming. Wish it wasn't.

Shelltron really needs to be a miniature version of Raw Intuition to be useful.

And its so simple as well, just make Shelltron a buff that guarantees that gives you a 100% block rate for 3 seconds.
That is long enough to make sure a stray AA wont eat it, but typically shorter than most tankbuster casts. That said a well timed 3s 100% block buff would let you block a physical TB and the following AA for a bit of added padding.

Then make Bulwark also add an extra 10% to the amount blocked on successful block when it is active... or just make Bulwark add a 10-15% magic damage reduction buff while its active, to give a bit of extra magic mit on a 3 minute CD.

Sheltron should restore 50TP.

Bulwark should be 100 block rate and block magic to justify its long CD.

I still feel like Shield Swipe is the number 1 place to apply changes to fix the bulk of paladin's issues.

It's currently 210 potency with x3 threat modifier, pacification, and 40 TP cost. The average potency of a Royal Authority combo is 230 over the 3 GCDs, and the average potency of a Goring/Royal/Royal rotation is between 251 and 256 depending on how much of the goring blade dot you clip. It's a massive DPS loss to fit it in almost anywhere in the rotation (the one exception being as the final GCD on a Fight or Flight with certain skillspeed values). Right now you can pretty much remove shield swipe from your bars and not notice any negative consequence or efficiency loss.

If they made Shield Swipe at least 260 potency it would always be a DPS increase to use, and you'd pretty much want to spam it in sequence if it popped lots due to back to back blocks. Making it x5 threat modifier would hugely increase the threat when tanking and enable Paladins to much more easily run in Sword Oath without a ninja and without relying on Halone spam. Plus, being a button you'll be wanting to press as often as possible you'll solve a lot of the paladin's TP issues when tanking. In addition, with Shield Swipe suddenly being a button you'd want to press, Sheltron and Bulwark gain extra utility as they can force procs.

So yes. Buffing Shield Swipe to 260 potency (or higher), x5 threat, and maybe making it 20 or 30 TP, though 40 is fine, would help a HUGE amount. It wouldn't solve Paladin TP issues when NOT tanking but it's rare a paladin dps's a target for 3 minutes without taking a single hit that they might block. The only thing this wouldn't really solve is fights where htere's literally -nothing- to block, such as main tanking A4. Maybe this is more a factor of just allowing "magical auto attacks" to be blocked and parried.

As an aside, I feel giving Shield Swipe the Slashing Debuff instead of Pacification would also solve the issue of PLD/DRK lineups being viable without a ninja, though this is a minor concern.

I was thinking the exact same things about Shield Swipe. I think the potency should be 300 but only when in Shield Oath. The reason for this is that the gap between Shield Oath and Sword Oath is so big, and it fits the theme and name of Shield Oath besides. Of course, this Shield Swipe change would be contingent on tank stances actually mattering.

And yes, the game's actual systems are more to blame for current tank problems for all tank Jobs, than the actual Job designs themselves. It's extremely worrying to me for Yoshida to say they'll never allow magical attacks to be blocked (and therefore, never parryable as well). That shows a very bad lack of understanding of how tanking works and should work. I doubt anyone's asking to parry or block a Fire spell or AoE raid damage, for example; but we need to be allowed to parry/block direct, single target attacks that happen to do magic damage. Thankfully, Yoshida isn't the Battle Systems Planner, or whatever they call that position.

IDK man sheltron is pretty freaking amazing as is. Especially in AOE situations when you have a good dragoon blasting a single target, forcing RoH and a good smn/blm blasting all the things forcing flash more often than you would like. All the while you sit at the edge of your seat, having an anxiety attack of just how close everyone is up your butt, cursing at the twelve at PLDs enmity generation, and praying for just that one riot blade or cd on CoS for xmas. LOL

Especially before you get geared.

The only gripe I have are the dps checks. When you have Warriors & Dark Knights able to push 800ish dps, and the paladin can only push at most like 500ish that is 300 dps that someone in the raid has to make up. Who cares if you can survive, or keep agro, if you can't manage the dps check because you decided to bring a paladin then there is something wrong with the design.

I am part of a static, and honestly I tank more ( most the time than the warrior ) mainly because he can out damage me significantly.

When did tanking become a dps check, so many other MMOs are out there, and not a single one of them ever really mention a tanks dps, mainly because a tank needs the mitigation to be able to survive.

I just wish the mechanics in the game weren't the same in very single fight, dodge stuff, heal tank buster, etc. Rift, WoW, EQ, EQ2 had some very interesting fights, they were scripted, but scripted much better than these fights.

Anyhow this is my rant really, its a Jap game, and honestly they really don't have good communication with english, so honestly I think most of this thread will pretty much go un noticed.

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Originally Posted by Fersaken

I am part of a static, and honestly I tank more ( most the time than the warrior ) mainly because he can out damage me significantly.

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Its actually more raid-dps efficient for you to OT and the WAR to MT, as you suffer far more of a DPS loss from MTing than they do i.e. You MT/WAR OT = 500/800 DPS whereas WAR MT/You OT = 700/750 DPS (as a hypothetical example not exact numbers).

Lots of groups using PLD are suffering a DPS loss not so much because they have a PLD but because they are making the PLD MT. There isn't a single tanking composition in which this is DPS efficient at the moment. I don't remember the numbers precisely but PLD suffers like a ~32% loss from max OT DPS by MTing. For WAR its like ~28% and DRK ~23%, roughly, not to mention things like Clemency and Cover are far easier to use when OTing. I'd consider letting your WAR MT and mention it to your raid group, assuming you both have roughly equivalent gear and STR/VIT. It wouldn't surprise me if your raid DPS went up by 100-200 DPS or even more depending on if the WAR is stance-dancing a bunch.

Paladin isn't 300 dps behind dark knight anyway. That's just gear, rotation, or stance.

Jeesus ppl, paladin can do some impressive numbers. But since we're in a place where people whine about slap emote, healer dps, sexy women clothes im not surprised you guys are saying paladin sucks. These forums are a cancer and I hope development team doesn't take these too serious. Go rock some slaying gear with sword oath and say paladin is weak in terms of dps. Their good, sure some small QoL changes will be great but its usually bad player whining their job is broken. Peace out o/

The Live Letter said earlier that Paladin is getting a TP adjustment.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The Live Letter said earlier that Paladin is getting a TP adjustment.

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Yep, and pretty much confirmed "only a few TP adjustments to some jobs" and nothing else at all. A little disappointed, if they make some of the key rotation skills cheaper then whilst it fixes a few issues, the bulk of the desirability of paladin is still in the hands of the upcoming encounter design. This will actually make Shield Swipe even less useful than currently if they dont buff it somehow.

They did say though that the difficulty of the upcoming Knights of the Round Extreme will not be dependant on a strict DPS check, so maybe their philosophy is changing going forward.

Well, with the Changes/Nerfs (whatever you wanna call it) to the Materia Melding Stuff (as in; you can only overmeld stuff with the Mainstat on the Gear,for example Vit on Vity Gear or Str on Str Gear) they are going to adjust the DPS for all Tanks.

In my Opinion a much needed Change since we Tanks were the only ones who had to spend Millions on Str Melded Stuff.

As mentioned the main issue is Paladin melting against Magic DPS.

If they didin't and were able to do their job (be a rock) then MTing would be fine because it would allow healers more time to DPS.

Hopefully Void Ark changes this, but im not holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

As mentioned the main issue is Paladin melting against Magic DPS.

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It's not at all - Paladin mitigation is fine. DRKs have MORE magical mitigation but the reason they're preferred is purely because they do more DPS. If Paladins did more dps than DRKs (not that they should) you'd see a lot more of them in the first clears of A4S. Paladins have "enough" mitigation for any magic based encounter, but they don't bring anything at all that the other tanks dont for these, so are almost always strictly a downgrade right now (especially at the start of content when undergeared).

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

As mentioned the main issue is Paladin melting against Magic DPS.

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If that's the main issue with PLD then it sounds like PLD has no issue at all. Rampart, Sentinel and Hallowed all work against magic damage. PLD tanked every ARR fight just fine with those three, because blocking even with Bulwark was unreliable. Plus tankbusters now feel a lot weaker than ARR bosses.

I don't really want to send this thread in circles or whatever but I'm bored. Paladin's issues as I see them are:

1) In some cases (mostly heavy aoe healing), can't keep up on dps while maintaining hate*
2) Utility is poor because of how it is implemented. Clemency is too slow, Cover is too niche, Divine Veil recast is too high. I'd also like to see an added effect on Tempered Will to make it useful in fights with no knockback (because they don't really let you cure raid heavy/bind)
3) too much of our dps is concentrated in sword oath. If we see another fight that requires MT tank stance that will be very bad.
4) Shield Bash ended up being the worst stun for actual raid mechanics since they're timed to match warrior and dark knight timers AND paladin further destroys its TP and DPS by using it and breaking combos. You can force a DPS to do it in your stead, but that just lowers party dps further.
5) Shield Swipe got left behind when they made Heavensward abilities

*Some of paladin's issues are mitigated by bringing a ninja, which is paladin's new bff. By doing that, though, you're not bringing a monk (since everyone wants a drg), which means you're missing out on INT debuff because leaving warrior out is just gimping yourself for no reason.

What caused me to switch over to DRK was watching my party get annihilated by cascade during the first couple of weeks while I was on paladin. When I switched to DRK I was able to basically make the damage a joke with Delirium + Reprisal while doing more DPS and not really taking any more damage from autos and dealing with tethers much more easily. I tried out paladin again for Manipulator, but dark knight is so much better for that fight it's not even a contest. I play paladin in 1-3 now (it's more fun), but on 4 I think DRK's advantages and paladin's disadvantages are too significant to change back.

Hi All,

I missed the Live Letter, and while I saw a post here by someone mentioning possible TP adjustments...

* Was there any official Dev Response from Yoshi P during the Live Letter about Paladin?

I didn't see any mention in the full Question & Answer Community Posts (today), nor in Mr. Happy's Live Translation Doc.

Thanks!

This is only thing mentioned about paladin in Q A
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Thread/page3

Ninja’s Mudra
We’re implementing an adjustment to address the lag behavior. This will depend on the player’s environment, so we cannot guarantee the overall speed will be faster; however, it should feel much smoother than before. Please try it out and leave us your feedback.

Additionally, as part of a job adjustment, we’re making detailed adjustment such as ninja/paladin’s TP, and other adjustments to bard and astrologian.

Thanks Sunako. That's why I missed it! (It was listed under "Ninja Mudra" heading.)

Hm, I hope it's more than just a TP adjustment. :(

Seriously if that's all PLD is getting, the combat team is clueless.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Thanks Sunako. That's why I missed it! (It was listed under "Ninja Mudra" heading.)

Hm, I hope it's more than just a TP adjustment. :(

Seriously if that's all PLD is getting, the combat team is clueless.

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Maybe, but I'll take a TP adjust for PLD. It needs love, this is an area that it does, so I'll take it lol.

I have a feeling that they'll just lower shield bash and/or shield lob tp costs

It'd be nice if they gave shield swipe a different potency depending on what shield you have equipped, as well as a different debuff.

It'd be awesome if with a great shield it applied a low potency DoT on top of having, say, 240 potency.

Or change Shield swipe to an Frontal AOE Attack, that we have something else as Flash and Circle for AOE Enmity.
Paladin just feels wrong during tanking Trash. Cause all you do is Circle, Flash Spam and some Halone (whitout combo) to somehow keep the aggro.

If you even try to peform a combo you are fucked and mobs are charging to the AOE DPS.
Flash is one of the most boring skills in this game and it is your Main Skill in 4 man Dungeons.