Ninja: Heaven-Sword (And Beyond)

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Originally Posted by Atreides

The EU servers will be a straightup DPS increase for Ninjas, however nothing on our rotation changes. Ever wondered why so many people say Ninja DPS is fine? Because it is with <50ms.
There might be a slight change depending on how good our latency becomes exactly, we might be able to fit Raiton in.

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Still will probably have to use tunnels to get really good mudra's(unless the 3.1 changes do something drastic) all depends on the routes I know I get a ping of about 35 to the servers in japan but still have to run a tunnel to get consistent mudras. I know Fold from elysium has to as well and he' also gets really good ping but a shit route

Unless you get the guaranteed kassatsu crit or foes is up, raiton is a dps loss even in the perfect world without any latency issues at all (this assuming slashing debuff is applied ofc), since it is not possible to not have raiton clip into the gcd simply because of animation lock. So the general rule of raiton with foes and/or after kassatsu and shuriken anywhere else doesn't change with good or bad latency. Less lag just means a dps increase in general, as it has already been stated.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Unless you get the guaranteed kassatsu crit or foes is up, raiton is a dps loss even in the perfect world without any latency issues at all (this assuming slashing debuff is applied ofc), since it is not possible to not have raiton clip into the gcd simply because of animation lock. So the general rule of raiton with foes and/or after kassatsu and shuriken anywhere else doesn't change with good or bad latency. Less lag just means a dps increase in general, as it has already been stated.

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True have this feeling though they're going to lower the recast time animation time of ninjutsu next patch as their magical fix so things may change

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Unless you get the guaranteed kassatsu crit or foes is up, raiton is a dps loss even in the perfect world without any latency issues at all (this assuming slashing debuff is applied ofc), since it is not possible to not have raiton clip into the gcd simply because of animation lock. So the general rule of raiton with foes and/or after kassatsu and shuriken anywhere else doesn't change with good or bad latency. Less lag just means a dps increase in general, as it has already been stated.

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True but with a latency of 100+ Raiton is a DPS loss no matter what, even with Kassatsu or Foes so with a better latency it might be viable for those situations. Heck even Fuma clips into EU GCD xD....

Does the Ninjitsu system get easier as you play? Because this seems confusing as fuck...

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Originally Posted by MaulScarreign

Does the Ninjitsu system get easier as you play? Because this seems confusing as fuck...

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Yes it gets alot easier as you play the job, it just takes a little getting used to.

Soo did any of the EU ninjas got to log in yet and check mudras? :3

well for me ( playing on ps4) its really better now, went from sometimes even fuma clipping and 3-4 secs suiton to raiton not clipping most of the time, and suiton still clipping but not that much ^^ testet it so far at a dummy on our house and in fractal on roulette^^

Mudras are now amazingly smooth. I passed from 125ms to 35ms and I could tell the difference from the very first huton.
1) Fuma Shuriken doesn't clip into the GCD anymore;
2) Dancing Edge's slashing resistance down debuff no longer goes off during the opening (not sure this was a common problem, but it happened to me) even when using kassatsu raiton instead of shuriken.
For those playing MCH, it's now possible to weave oGCD skills during Rapid Fire without clipping into the GCD.

That sounds awesome! :D Can't wait to get home from work and test it myself. :)

Edit: Dervy basically confirms it: https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...a-mudra-fixed/

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

That sounds awesome! :D Can't wait to get home from work and test it myself. :)

Edit: Dervy basically confirms it: https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...a-mudra-fixed/

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yep hopeful 3.1 makes raiton more worth using outside of the spots you mentioned in the previous posts

Soo the jutsu fix is officially implemented for the EU data center, and raiton still clips GCD? Or is it just from the difference in ping?

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Originally Posted by CotaBota

Soo the jutsu fix is officially implemented for the EU data center, and raiton still clips GCD? Or is it just from the difference in ping?

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This is simple a test to see how latency as affected Mudra on EU ninjas, with our new datacenter.

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From dervy's blog post from dervy themselves.

In the final comment at the bottom of the page. Well, thank you for pointing this out anyway! Here's hoping 3.1 resolves our issues once and for all.

Am I losing damage by losing 64 det on my 180 pants by going to the gordian

190 set? I get 8 dex but 64 det is a lot to lose too. All I gained was accuracy

Apologies for split post mobile sucks

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Originally Posted by Meow9000

190 set? I get 8 dex but 64 det is a lot to lose too. All I gained was accuracy

Apologies for split post mobile sucks

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WD: 10.775
DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.141
CRT: 0.166
SS: 0.074 (Mudra clipping is horrible)

Using Dervy's stat weights(please correct me if I'm wrong guys Its late here) the 180 pants have a total stat weight of 90.858 and the 190 pants have a total stat weight of 91.698. And I'm assuming since you're mostly in law and Gordian normal mode gear you'll probably need the acc.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

That sounds awesome! :D Can't wait to get home from work and test it myself. :)

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Did A1/2/3 savage tonight and the difference is very noticable! Tbh, I've been cautiously optimistic, but I didn't expect it to be that good. No shuriken clipping at all anymore and double weaving ogcd's is also pretty smooth, my dps also went up quite a bit. Also things like passing digititus in A3 and passing tethers, as well as insta teleporting back in after first washaway are way smoother now. I am happy. :)

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

yep hopeful 3.1 makes raiton more worth using outside of the spots you mentioned in the previous posts

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The math behind these situations is based on zero latency and on animation lock alone, so no, if there's no foes and/or guaranteed kassatsu crit, shuriken will always be the way to go unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by CotaBota

Soo the jutsu fix is officially implemented for the EU data center, and raiton still clips GCD? Or is it just from the difference in ping?

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See above. Raiton will always clip due to animation lock, it's just that mudra lag obviously makes it worse. It is not possible to not clip raiton for the same reason it is not possible to triple weave ogcd's, even if they all have a 0,5s activation timer.

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Originally Posted by Meow9000

Am I losing damage by losing 64 det on my 180 pants by going to the gordian 190 set? I get 8 dex but 64 det is a lot to lose too. All I gained was accuracy

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Solely based on current stat weights, no, you won't lose damage. i180 pants are 90,858 theoretical dex while i190 are 91,698, which is a difference you probably won't notice. It all comes down to if the additional acc on the i190 let's you wear more dps pieces in other slots. If not, I'd say just save up for the eso pants, they are ridiculously good and you could use your springs on a subjob where they may have better stats (i190 tank pants are awesome).

edit: beaten by pluvia on the last one. ^^

EU Alexander Savage Hard Mode just turned into Savage only, finally we're playing the same game.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Did A1/2/3 savage tonight and the difference is very noticable! Tbh, I've been cautiously optimistic, but I didn't expect it to be that good. No shuriken clipping at all anymore and double weaving ogcd's is also pretty smooth, my dps also went up quite a bit. Also things like passing digititus in A3 and passing tethers, as well as insta teleporting back in after first washaway are way smoother now. I am happy. :)


The math behind these situations is based on zero latency and on animation lock alone, so no, if there's no foes and/or guaranteed kassatsu crit, shuriken will always be the way to go unfortunately.



See above. Raiton will always clip due to animation lock, it's just that mudra lag obviously makes it worse. It is not possible to not clip raiton for the same reason it is not possible to triple weave ogcd's, even if they all have a 0,5s activation timer.



Solely based on current stat weights, no, you won't lose damage. i180 pants are 90,858 theoretical dex while i190 are 91,698, which is a difference you probably won't notice. It all comes down to if the additional acc on the i190 let's you wear more dps pieces in other slots. If not, I'd say just save up for the eso pants, they are ridiculously good and you could use your springs on a subjob where they may have better stats (i190 tank pants are awesome).

edit: beaten by pluvia on the last one. ^^

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What I meant about that is hopefully the magic they have planed for 3.1 will make it somehow not clip.

Glad for EU players getting to experience Mudras as they're meant to be. Maybe one day the US will join you. :(

Am I the only one who SORT OF******** likes how Raiton is only best used when it has a buff backing it? It actually makes Fuma relevant since in a world with zero latency and zero GCD issues, there will be no reason to use Fuma ever again once acquiring Raiton. It's not so much the case now. While the relevance is cool, it's relevant for all the wrong reasons unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

Am I the only one who SORT OF******** likes how Raiton is only best used when it has a buff backing it? It actually makes Fuma relevant since in a world with zero latency and zero GCD issues, there will be no reason to use Fuma ever again once acquiring Raiton. It's not so much the case now. While the relevance is cool, it's relevant for all the wrong reasons unfortunately.

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I've been using Raiton when I run into TP problems, so there is that. D:

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I've been using Raiton when I run into TP problems, so there is that. D:

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Which all falls down to "relevant for the wrong reasons" lol

Hurray! TP adjustments.

Does anyone here still use Sneak Attack endgame? The only use I see for it is if another Ninja happened to use their TA VERY recently and instead of restarting the timer, you can just go for the potential 550 potency attack. And that's IF it's viable to even walk in front of the boss. My Cross hotbar is crying.

Another question. Why use Doton into Kassatsu'd Katon? Wouldn't it be better to use Katon into Kassatsu Doton? Unless this is for the sake of reliable damage(tank moves mobs out of aoe etc)

I use Sneak Attack in the add phase of A3S. It is one of the few abilities I can actually get off before the BLM+BRD 1 GCD my adds. (I'm usually in my corner crying because it's pointless trying...) :(

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

Another question. Why use Doton into Kassatsu'd Katon? Wouldn't it be better to use Katon into Kassatsu Doton? Unless this is for the sake of reliable damage(tank moves mobs out of aoe etc)

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That's what I do (using Katon into Kassatsu Doton), because of crit ticks. But I do wonder as well what benefits could we get from using Doton into a Kassatsu Katon... if any other fellow ninja would like to share : )

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Originally Posted by Nael-

That's what I do (using Katon into Kassatsu Doton), because of crit ticks. But I do wonder as well what benefits could we get from using Doton into a Kassatsu Katon... if any other fellow ninja would like to share : )

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Honestly, I think it's just for convenience's sake. There's far too many times a tank moves enemies out of my Doton's AOE which will eventually make it weaker than what a Kassatsu Katon would've done.

Can I just ask a quick question? I'm thinking of leveling Ninja soon, possibly, and was curious about one part of your visual rotation (seen here).

In the opener, why do you use Blood for Blood before your first attack? Couldn't you shift it to the empty spot between GS and DE instead, and have it last an extra 4s at the end to pick up both Jugulate and Dream Within a Dream? I figure you're doing it to have it come back sooner, but it just seems to me you'd get more mileage out of it using it then instead of holding it. Am I wrong? D:

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Can I just ask a quick question? I'm thinking of leveling Ninja soon, possibly, and was curious about one part of your visual rotation (seen here).

In the opener, why do you use Blood for Blood before your first attack? Couldn't you shift it to the empty spot between GS and DE instead, and have it last an extra 4s at the end to pick up both Jugulate and Dream Within a Dream? I figure you're doing it to have it come back sooner, but it just seems to me you'd get more mileage out of it using it then instead of holding it. Am I wrong? D:

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Between GS and DE is where pot normally goes.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Between GS and DE is where pot normally goes.

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Alright, that makes sense. And one other question - why is Dream Within a Dream being used where it is? Wouldn't it be more worthwhile to swap its position with Mug? 100x3 potency v 140 potency; even if Mug crits, it would be less potency overall than Dream having 3 non-crit hits. Is there some reason Mug is used first that I'm missing, as well?

I can't tell you why it's like that on the chart, I use DwaD after Spinning myself. I would imagine it's to get Internal Release on Mug, but you miss Trick Attacked DwaD so I don't see the benefit to that.

Mutilate-TP cost has been reduced from 80 to 70.
Shadow Fang-TP cost has been reduced from 70 to 60.

Shouldn't that put our TP Pool back to 2.4's state?(read: never running out of tp) Last time I remember, our only TP adjustment was increasing AE's TP by 10. Probably wrong on that.

Also, another indirect fix I liked is that any skill that has a 0.5 GCD can no longer get a decrease in cooldown by any skill, which sometimes can fuck with mudras too I believe.

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

Shouldn't that put our TP Pool back to 2.4's state?(read: never running out of tp) Last time I remember, our only TP adjustment was increasing AE's TP by 10. Probably wrong on that.

Also, another indirect fix I liked is that any skill that has a 0.5 GCD can no longer get a decrease in cooldown by any skill, which sometimes can fuck with mudras too I believe.

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they also changed shadow fang from 60-79 at the same time. So they pretty much reversed the shadowfang tp and then adjusted mutilate

I guess we're going back to never running out of TP ever again lol

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

I guess we're going back to never running out of TP ever again lol

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Naw it should put us at about the other melee

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Naw it should put us at about the other melee

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This pretty much. We will sustain slightly better than monk after the changes but at the cost of not having purification.

total dex weight for the 210 chest
105.884

total dex weight for the void ark chest
107.276

wouldn't be able to hit the acc cap though in a4s if you used the void ark chest

this obviously isn't taking into account airship gear