Astrologian Speculations! How will it fit in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raminax

Info.

---

Thanks for sharing! Was a fun read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raminax

~Snip~

---

Thanks for the link. If AST is indeed a HoT healer as is indicated on the article, I will most likely swap to AST just because it reminds me of my WoW Resto Druid days. Less than a month away to make final judgement~

the 10% damage debuff card is not great, especially when paired with lower healing...
Since RNJesus hates me, this sounds scary


EDIT / More info

Of all the new jobs, the Astrologian was the star of the show for me. It’s a job that specialises in healing, and it has a very interesting utility. First, Astrologians have two different stances: Diurnal Sect and Nocturnal Sect. The former adds healing regen, whereas the latter adds an absorption barrier to many of their abilities. It basically gives them the versatility of both a White Mage and a Scholar, but they don’t have the same throughput; it’s balanced.

Second up is their card system. An Astrologian can at any point draw a card - out of six possible - each with a unique effect:

10% increased attack speed
10% increased attack damage
20% TP reduction costs
20% MP reduction costs
20% ability recast time reduction
10% increased damage taken

You’ll notice that the last example explicitly says “damage taken”. During my playtest, this surprisingly could only be cast on allies. When I asked the QA staff present, they promised me that this was intended; essentially, it’s a bad card, one that’s designed to balance out the RNG nature of the draw system. The logical man inside of me however wouldn’t be surprised if this was just mistranslation from the Japanese client, and it in fact reduces damage taken.

But to be quite honest, I really like the idea of having a dud card.

The cards’ uses can be furthered with three other abilities. Shuffle will draw you another card on the spot, with a hefty cooldown, and it’s also possible you’ll just draw the same card. If you like a card you’ve drawn, but don’t want to expend it, you can cast Spread to put it aside for later. There, it’ll remain indefinitely until you use it - great for prepping before a big fight. Finally, you have Royal Road: an ability which puts your drawn card back in the deck, but boosts the power of the next card you draw. Boosted effects include an increased 150% potency (effects card 1 and 2), increased buff duration (effects card 3 and 4), or turning the card’s effect into an AoE for party members (effects card 5 and 6). With the latter boost, the power of the card's effect is halved to compensate for a party wide buff.

from: http://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantas...iv-heavensward

I like the idea of a 'dud card' because it pretty much makes perfect fuel for Royal Road. Unless you get really screwed and draw it again....

That being said the implication I got from the hots is that it might be a hot version of adlo- a heal with a hot tacked into it. Would love that ^^

I also played a lot of healers in WoW and druid was definitely my main, though the shaman/holy priest/monk all had hot elements in their kits too, just something I have always liked. I have both healers in this game, and like them both for different reasons (oddly enough I hated disc priest in wow but love scholar :p Eos FTW) and I plan to get all 3 healers to 60 as well. Just a question of what order to do it in....

I'm curious to see the deck "composition". Like, is it one copy of all six cards? Two / three copies of all six cards for a total of 12/18 card deck? I'm also wondering if you use "Spread" on a card if it'll permanently remove the card from your deck until the card is used.

This is important to me because it'll affect how AST is played. For example, if it's a six card deck (one copy of every card) and "Spread" permanently removes the card from your deck until consumed, then it's possible to "remove" the dud card indefinitely, but then leave your deck draws completely up to RNG. Alternatively, save a good card and making it a higher chance to draw the dud card (20% versus 17%) when activating other card drawing abilities. Likewise, the tactics and probabilities get changed even further if there are "bigger decks with multiple copies", let alone if there can be multiple quantities for each card and the quantities of each copy are different (like say 4 + 4 + 2 + 5 + 3 + 1 for a total of 19 cards, etc).

The nuances are interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing how AST develops as more information is given / found.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

- I plan to get all 3 healers to 60 as well. Just a question of what order to do it in....

---

I'm personally going to be taking my main (in this case, WHM) up to 60 while doing MSQ and making sure to use LLDR every day on AST to get it up to snuff at a decent rate (this is assuming leveling remains the same). This feels more efficient for my own time constraints and you may find something similar to that.

I am really worried because he said too that buff effects doesnt affecto to the caster (AST). If we have low healing potency and we cannot self-buff us maybe this is not the class i was waiting after all :( Ill wait these weeks to check it myself <3

I was gonna do similar with low lvl roulette as well, and also when playing with lower level friends. Though the buffs not affecting self is kinda sad :(

The way 'spread' read to me was that you put that card aside to activate later, meaning you would have to use it so idk if you could use it to remove your dud cards. Good point about the 'copies' though, that's food for thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tjw

If you notice, the stun effect doesn't appear until she uses the AoE spell. There's likely no animation for when it gets activated by the AoE spell, but after she used the debuff, the enemy wasn't stunned. It was only stunned after she used the AoE spell. That's why I see the AoE spell as the activation ability.

---

Or the spell cast by the AST was Paralyze. That's why it didn't had an instant effect and that's why it didn't require activation. it just 'ticked'.

Some more stuff from a Redditor who got hands-on (and wrote that very article):

Quote:

---

They get their own type of Swiftcast ability (can't remember the name), but instead of being spent on one ability, it offers passive haste for a short duration.

---

Quote:

---

They get a Cleric Stance so DPS'ing for solo content is at least bearable. They're DPS abilities look awesome, but at the end of the day aren't all that impressive statistically.

One ability I forgot to mention is the ability to put a buff on an ally, and whenever you do healing, they receive 50% of it. Pretty neat to keep an off-tank alive.

---

Quote:

---

They have three main heals - a single target one, a small AoE and a large AoE. Depending on what stance you're in (Diurnal and Nocturnal), you'll apply additional regen or absorption effects when casting spells.

I cannot remember the cooldown of the Beacon of Light like ability, but I'm pretty sure it's in the 1-2 minutes bracket.

...those are the big spam-able heals. There's more, that do very niche things.

---

He'll be doing an AMA later as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hysterior

You’ll notice that the last example explicitly says “damage taken”. During my playtest, this surprisingly could only be cast on allies. When I asked the QA staff present, they promised me that this was intended; essentially, it’s a bad card, one that’s designed to balance out the RNG nature of the draw system. The logical man inside of me however wouldn’t be surprised if this was just mistranslation from the Japanese client, and it in fact reduces damage taken.

---

This is a good thing to point out as it is entirely possible. If you remember, during the official Q&A it was mentioned that one of the card effects would be damage reduction which is unaccounted for based on the list provided.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcana

I am really worried because he said too that buff effects doesnt affecto to the caster (AST). If we have low healing potency and we cannot self-buff us maybe this is not the class i was waiting after all :( Ill wait these weeks to check it myself <3

---

The buffs for the AST are tied to the stances:

Healer stance = 10% increased healing potency.
Barrier stance = 10% increased casting speed.

The cards themselves though cannot be used on yourself.

OH each stance has a self buff in addition to the changed spell effects?! that's cool!

Honestly Astrologian has so much potential for unique mechanics, I would love for the healing stance to be a "Healing Overtime" stance, while the defensive stance provides timed cures that act as barriers which when expire give a portion of the damage. This would allow them to have shields for raids while still have their unique flavor.

Can't switch stances in combat. Stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alkimi

The buffs for the AST are tied to the stances:

Healer stance = 10% increased healing potency.
Barrier stance = 10% increased casting speed.

The cards themselves though cannot be used on yourself.

---

Where did this information come from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

Or the spell cast by the AST was Paralyze. That's why it didn't had an instant effect and that's why it didn't require activation. it just 'ticked'.

---

1. Paralyze effect is different from stun in its animation; it's not persistent like the stun effect, which is what is shown. (I actually went to get paralyzed in t11 just to see)
2. The effect lasts for a good 2-3 seconds; paralyze is at the most a second from what I recall.
3. The AoE effect at the end has a small but noticeable particle effect on the mob when it is cast. You could then contest that the AoE was a AoE Stun but that doesn't seem likely, does it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barimu

Can't switch stances in combat. Stupid.

---

I am pretty sad about that. I could understand a hefty CD so you can maybe only switch once during a long boss battle for a phase, but not at all? :(

Although I suppose this means you can switch between bosses/trash, that's SOMETHING.

More details have been released. Game Watch - Heavensward Role Highlights

I've only just read the first part, but I noticed it mentions that the cross class actions are taken from Conjurer and Arcanist which contradicts the report on Thaumaturge being one of them.

Edit: The original article was corrected and now says Conjurer and Thaumaturge. No Arcanist for Astrologian.

Sounds like Astrologians will have quite the burst healing capability with instant Benefic II when procced and Dignity. Tank busters begone! Gods know who to trust regarding the crossclass possibilities though; while one can live without Swiftcast, it's quite a blow to one's versatility without it.

Also, boo at Squeenix. What will be the point of Stone II if Stone III will simply be stronger? Stone I at least has niche utility with applying Heavy. Stone II is nothing but pure damage. I know that we don't have the whole story, but still. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raminax

Also, boo at Squeenix. What will be the point of Stone II if Stone III will simply be stronger? Stone I at least has niche utility with applying Heavy. Stone II is nothing but pure damage. I know that we don't have the whole story, but still. :/

---

Perhaps Stone III has longer cast time? From the job actions video, even under Presence of Mind, it still had a cast time of roughly 2.5 seconds. PoM -roughly- takes of f0.5 seconds, so lets assume Stone III is a 3.0 base second cast time. Lets give it a higher potency; 200. At 200 potency, it'll have less potency a second than Stone II (68 vs 66.666...which is not a huge difference. But still a difference!). I'm suspecting that Stone III will have an additional effect attached; maybe something like lowered resistance to earth and wind damage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blueyes

cross class actions are taken from Conjurer and Arcanist which contradicts the report on Thaumaturge being one of them.

---

This does not shock me. I've actually been saying it had to be that combo since the beginning. So haha I was right :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blueyes

~Providing more info @ Game Watch - Heavensward Role Highlights ~

---

Having a HoT stance and a shield stance is interesting, but I do have a reservation about how they're implementing it and hope these reservations are quelled once more information is released. It can be really unbalancing if they follow the Adlo route and have a Shield or Total HoT potency to match the Cure potency. If they make the base Cure 400 Potency and have the HoT 400 potency as well, that's an insane potency for a baseline cure. If they make it 200 cure / 200 HoT then it's going to be quite underwhelming and AST will most likely lack in the burst heal department. They'll need to find a more middle ground and I hope that's appeased by say having their baseline cure 300 Potency heal with a 100 Potency HoT and use similar style ratios to make it work out well.

I reserve judgement until I see more information, but I got an inkling that AST will either be quite overpowered or underpowered right out of the gate and not anywhere in the middle. Time will eventually tell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barimu

Can't switch stances in combat. Stupid.

---

Can you link a source for this? I'm trying to find out where this information came from based on the current information tidbits but I can't find anything about it. I would hope they don't lock stances for combat and instead provide a heavy cooldown (As mentioned in a previous interview) associated with stance swapping to encourage thoughtful play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raminax

Also, boo at Squeenix. What will be the point of Stone II if Stone III will simply be stronger? Stone I at least has niche utility with applying Heavy. Stone II is nothing but pure damage. I know that we don't have the whole story, but still. :/

---

I'm hoping that since the engine they were using at the EU info session was a developmental build that Stone III will get some sort of additional effect like reducing the targets damage / increase their damage taken and have Stone III cost a bit more and have similar potency to Stone II.

Maybe Stone 3 has a cd ^^

I made a thread to try to really figure out what the cross classes are -- it seems that the one translation is wrong, and it is still CNJ/THM if what people are saying is correct.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...92#post2987792

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I'm hoping that since the engine they were using at the EU info session was a developmental build that Stone III will get some sort of additional effect like reducing the targets damage / increase their damage taken and have Stone III cost a bit more and have similar potency to Stone II.

---

Or Stone II will have a proc to activate a 3.5sec-cast Stone III. When you get a crit, Stone III will be instant...

Please remember that certain skills are just natural upgrades of existing skills in order to keep skill bloat down. Look at Thunder I, Thunder II, and Thunder III. All three have the same effect. The only difference is the increasing damage and increasing cast time. Thus, each one can technically replace the previous one on the skill bar in order to minimize skill bloat (yes, for the anal mix-maxers you should always hard-cast Thunder II and only use Thunder III when the proc occurs, but for 99.9% of content that kind of min-maxing isn't going to matter at all).

Stone III can replace Stone II in a similar way. It doesn't have to have it's own special effect. (though it would be cool if Stone III had a proc that made the next Aero II/III instant to build more synergy between different skills).

Maybe stone3 is aoe? The animation for it looks HUGE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

Or Stone II will have a proc to activate a 3.5sec-cast Stone III. When you get a crit, Stone III will be instant...

---

I like this idea, though feels a little too BLM like. I'd like a different proc, but can't think of any good example ATM. Back to my original point, maybe a proc that grants an additional effect on it instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velox

Please remember that certain skills are just natural upgrades of existing skills in order to keep skill bloat down. Look at Thunder I, Thunder II, and Thunder III. All three have the same effect. The only difference is the increasing damage and increasing cast time. Thus, each one can technically replace the previous one on the skill bar in order to minimize skill bloat (yes, for the anal mix-maxers you should always hard-cast Thunder II and only use Thunder III when the proc occurs, but for 99.9% of content that kind of min-maxing isn't going to matter at all).

Stone III can replace Stone II in a similar way. It doesn't have to have it's own special effect. (though it would be cool if Stone III had a proc that made the next Aero II/III instant to build more synergy between different skills).

---

I hope this is the case to reduce skill bloat, though I also appreciate being able to use everything in my toolkit too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

Maybe stone3 is aoe? The animation for it looks HUGE.

---

I don't have the quote in front of me, but I believe someone reported that Stone III was single target despite it's appearance. Would like to be proven otherwise. I believe it was someone's loose translation of the Live Letter in Europe so take it with a huge heaping of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tjw

If you notice, the stun effect doesn't appear until she uses the AoE spell. There's likely no animation for when it gets activated by the AoE spell, but after she used the debuff, the enemy wasn't stunned. It was only stunned after she used the AoE spell. That's why I see the AoE spell as the activation ability.

---

I want to comment on this again as I believe you are entirely correct. In the most recent article (posted on the last page) it mentions Celestial Stasis as a level 60 ability instead of a Limit Break. I believe that's exactly what we see in the video.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I made a thread to try to really figure out what the cross classes are -- it seems that the one translation is wrong, and it is still CNJ/THM if what people are saying is correct.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...92#post2987792

---

It seems the last article incorrectly stated Arcanist as one them and has since been corrected with the translation reflecting that change, so yes it is Conjurer and Thaumaturge. Kind of disappointing to be honest as I think Arcanist offers more than Thaumaturge when you consider that a job specific Swiftcast would be entirely appropriate for Astrologian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Can you link a source for this? I'm trying to find out where this information came from based on the current information tidbits but I can't find anything about it. I would hope they don't lock stances for combat and instead provide a heavy cooldown (As mentioned in a previous interview) associated with stance swapping to encourage thoughtful play.

---

http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/056/1056760/

Quote:

---

ただし注意点として、戦闘中の切り替えは不可

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

CNJ/THM

---

Which is duuuuumb.

It'll be interesting to see how thinks play out without E4E and Virus on a healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Which is duuuuumb.

It'll be interesting to see how thinks play out without E4E and Virus on a healer.

---

There's actually more sources saying conjurer and arcanist, with their own class specific swiftcast
It kind of makes sense, would need conjurer, arcanist, and thaumaturge cross class skills to heal properly and they know it so had to clone a skill to make it fit

The 'ast swiftcast' was a bit of a misnomer, it sounds more like an 'ast presence of mind'. its a hastey buff. WHo knows? maybe the lack of E4E and virus was intended as a balancer since ast gets so many other buffs with their cards and things?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/056/1056760/

---

I wish I could read Japanese, lol. But I have seen the translation for this so now I'm saddened. ; ; Oh well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

The 'ast swiftcast' was a bit of a misnomer, it sounds more like an 'ast presence of mind'. its a hastey buff. WHo knows? maybe the lack of E4E and virus was intended as a balancer since ast gets so many other buffs with their cards and things?

---

Sch has E4E, virus, SS 30%, SC 30%, healing potency 20%, -20% magic damage, sacred soil... How many has AST? less than SCH i think :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcana

SCH buffs!! How many has AST?

---

Beats me if I know, but at least AST is getting TP/MP restoration support, as well as power boosts for party members and also casting speed boost (much like SS I guess). All from the cards...

I think they can spare E4E and Virus >__>;;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkenne

snip

---

The cost reduction buffs sure are cool, and there was an unnamed spell that spreads buffs meaning you could spread your strong card buffs to allies most likely. In addition, the spell that grants 50% of healing to another target, could perhaps include healing done by other players? Who knows. Also the info on ast dps skills mentioned though their actual damage was lackluster, that they tended to have debuff effects as well.

Not to mention the spell list we have for ast right now is just too small to possibly be all their skills. ><;; only time will tell I guess but man is it hard to wait.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Which is duuuuumb.

It'll be interesting to see how thinks play out without E4E and Virus on a healer.

---

The average healer barely uses these abilities or just uses them wrong, anyway. I doubt many people will notice the difference.

For static play, sure, it would be nice if AST could cross-class Virus to mitigate damage from powerful adds, which are almost always physical in nature.

For DF play, I'd be thrilled not to have yet another untraited Virus cast at random to screw up the SCH/SMN Virus application.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

snip

---

All true. My main complaint is that CNJ + THM is the same as SCH which makes it kind of boring. lol

I have seen people talk about Supervirus needing to be on all healers if Proshell is, since in things like the Coils Supervirus is the best mitigation tool. Basically, if Proshell is given to everyone out of balance, then so should Supervirus. I was also think about that as well.

I don't think E4E and Virus are exactly needed, I just think it will be strange that a Solo AST won't have access to these abilities if they are not available to someone else.

I guess they considered swiftcast more important than virus?