Prepulling mobs as healer

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Originally Posted by Enla

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

I'm 50% over it. Even if I cut out the quote (which, initially, wasn't even the whole thing), I still have around 600 characters to cut down on. Not quite in the revisionist mood to make it concise enough when I can just link to an external source to make my point as-was.

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Just copy/cut the part that's over and paste it back in with an edit. It takes less time than making a google doc and you don't need to summarize either.

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Sick. Thanks for the advice.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Didn't know you were the only person in a group. because AFAIK, a group is of 4 people, or 8, or 24. And those people work together. having one person go against what others are doing causes more problems than anything.

Preposterous, I know, but some of us are here to have fun, not grind every dungeon down to the last millisecond of effeciency.

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Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

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Originally Posted by SamRF

At this point, I think the reason why your and other's opinion on this issue sounds so absurd to me, is the fact that I'm used to community of (most?) other online games that are usually much less forgiving (and admittedly also more toxic).

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I've played quite a few mmos and this has not been my experience for the most part, but I obviously can't say if I have played the same games as you so it could simply be a case that your gaming background greatly differs to mine. From what you say I wouldn't be surprised if you played very pvp-driven games because being noticeably less forgiving is a trait those often have.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I don't like the fact that those communities tend to be toxic and extremely harsh sometimes, but seeing this thread, you people seem extreme in the opposite way in my view. Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake. This also ends up being toxic imo and will be a turn off to some players. I don't mean this to be offensive, just my thought and concern (which can be flawed of course).

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I don't think it's snowflake mentality to not pull if you're not the tank given that is the standard in the trinity system. If anything a person claiming that they have a right to pull even when they're not a tank and even when the group doesn't want that, just because they are bored, could be argued as a snowflake mentality.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

However I think it's just that the fact that I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side in similar case, while you people prioritize players their feelings and comfort, which can be a good thing, but imo only to a certain extend.

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I think you are making a very blanket statement by saying most gaming communities rate efficiency very high. I personally found that this isn't the case in communities as a whole, and those who feel this way tend to be a sub-community who often play higher difficulty content, which in the case of this game is often people who raid savage, or aim to do so.

I don't think your problem isn't understanding why tanks feel a certain way. I think your problem is not understanding that many types of players play this game and they all have different goals and different ways of achieving them. Some players are more like you and enjoy being as efficient as possible, and other players play this game to unwind and prefer a more chilled out pace. You also need to consider experience can vary as well. Just because someone doesn't have a sprout icon doesn't mean they have been tanking for a long time, or have tanked remotely recently.

Essentially you need to manage your expectations. If you're doing roulette/msq content you have to expect to run into players who cannot or do not want to play at the pace you want. I have said many times in this thread that I find single pack pulls boring, but I understand not everyone is as experienced, confident or as "efficient" as I am, and that being a player like me is way above the minimum requirement for the content.

Pugging is lottery, and when you're doing roulette/msq content the results often tend to be people who don't have efficiency as a primary goal because that content is aimed at casual players. In ex and above expecting the sort of efficiency you like isn't unreasonable because the content does demand more from players and error is much more devastating.

Make friends with a tank. Better yet make friends with a whole group who like to play the way you do, and do your roulettes with them. I see this as the only solution for you if you do not feel like adjusting your expectations to the content you're doing.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

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The purpose of a group is to have fun. Together. If you pull as a healer without asking the tank, there's a good chance they'll feel like you're walking all over them. Is your fun more valuable than theirs?

As a relatively new tank, it's scary when someone else pulls things. I'm leveling tanks, so I'm not overgeared, I'm usually in the complete set from the current dungeon I am running (since I am leveling them all, I just hold on to the gear til I finish with all three GNB is 80 since it started at 60). I'll give a couple of examples. Doma castle, the first pulls.. there are 3 garleans, then a bunch of the little metal bugg slashers... I usually pull the three to the slashers but there are so many that they are not ALL on the enmity list, so if one off the list gets away from me, I can't tell. Then the colossus after, I like to do by itself, he does enough aoe attacks that it's annoying to fight him an try to dodge the gunship attacks.

I like doing big pulls, but if the dps is not taking them down fast - I have had quite a few groups where it takes FOREVER for the pack to get taken down, by then I am out of cooldowns, the healer is probably biting their nails.

I was also in a level duty, got sirensong sea, we had a dps who hadn't done it before. I was trying to explain the first boss fight, the other dps pulled the boss.. the other dps kept pulling everything before I could, it's frustrating and annoying.

It's only efficient if everyone in the group is overgeared and the dps can aoe quickly, otherwise, big pulls are actually slower, because the tank is going to have to wait on cooldowns to come back before getting the next group.

I mean with dungeons the way they are healers can tank entire trash packs anyway

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Originally Posted by tdb

The purpose of a group is to have fun. Together. If you pull as a healer without asking the tank, there's a good chance they'll feel like you're walking all over them. Is your fun more valuable than theirs?

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The whole point of my argument would then be that tanks shouldn't feel that way in given situation. It's their (close minded) mentality that is causing them to have less fun, not what I'm doing. Using your reasoning: "how can they be having less fun than the healer who is spamming 1 dps button? They should adjust their gameplay so healer can also have some fun.". I don't agree with this, I don't mind if tanks want to pull small but they also shouldn't mind if I pull ahead and bring some mobs to them that they can choose to ignore if they wish.

Let me put it simpler (only applicable to specific situation I described in first post):

What are the consequences if a tank pulls small? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses slower. Everybody is comfortable in their engaging dps rotation while healer is bored out of their mind with their 1 dps ability.

What are the consequences if healer prepulls some mobs ahead and brings them to the tank? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses faster. Dps and tank keep doing their engaging dps rotation while healer can now be more engaged by popping some oGCD's between spamming their 1 dps ability.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

Who said that, the tank police?

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that's literally the way its worked in most MMOs except maybe Everquest 1.

Tank is the pace setter, they pull the mobs and decide how they want to play the dungeon. anyone else who pull is simply an asshole in most MMO communities.

you trying to force your playstyle on other is what's causing them to have less fun ... YOU doing whats outside the norm is the problem not the tank. you alone don't get to decide how the group is having fun

your two options are

play a tank and then decide how you want to pull

or play with a static group where you can force your playstyle upon them and only then.

this "rant" shouldn't be needed you're in the wrong no matter what you say. get over it.

heres a funny story for you healers out there ... running with a friend in a roulette, i pulled two packs at a time for the most part (yes omg I am a safe puller beware if you group with me your roulette might take 5 minutes longer). started tanking, the healer runs ahead and "rescues" me to him/her in order to pull another pack of mobs. we killed the mobs and then we booted the healer.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

The whole point of my argument would then be that tanks shouldn't feel that way in given situation. It's their (close minded) mentality that is causing them to have less fun, not what I'm doing. Using your reasoning: "how can they be having less fun than the healer who is spamming 1 dps button? They should adjust their gameplay so healer can also have some fun.". I don't agree with this, I don't mind if tanks want to pull small but they also shouldn't mind if I pull ahead and bring some mobs to them that they can choose to ignore if they wish.

Let me put it simpler (only applicable to specific situation I described in first post):

What are the consequences if a tank pulls small? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses slower. Everybody is comfortable in their engaging dps rotation while healer is bored out of their mind with their 1 dps ability.

What are the consequences if healer prepulls some mobs ahead and brings them to the tank? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses faster. Dps and tank keep doing their engaging dps rotation while healer can now be more engaged by popping some oGCD's between spamming their 1 dps ability.

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I do hope you realize how very 'me me me' this comes off right? Likewise I can guarantee someone with anxiety is DEFINITELY having less fun with you pulling for them and not because of their 'mentality' as you say it. Also as a healer main I don't really care either way, it's not the tank's fault that SE gimped us out of a proper rotation. If someone wants to pull more fine, if someone doesn't that's also fine. These sort of things should be /discussed/ within your party - not with you making snap judgments for them and then looking down on them for not fitting into your mind set.