Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Huh. After 4.05 I can fit procs/Foul fine in AF, actually.
It's either your latency or your spell speed failing you.

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Yeah, that might be it. I feel like I have to burn swift / triple cast if I want to fit procs/foul into the 4.0 rotation, but you're right that it might just be latency + SS. Trying to make 4.05 work on 200ms ping is....challenging.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

Not sure what you mean. Foul is used during umbral phase along with t3, there's more than enough time to fit it in. If its not ready yet just cast single t3 and switch back to astral, or if mana tick is a issuea add b4 on top of that.

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Hmmm I might be confused. I'm talking about 3F4 > F1 > 3F4 > B3 > T3 > B4

Are you referring to the 5F4 rotation that doesn't need umbral hearts?

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Originally Posted by Realfoxy

Hmmm I might be confused. I'm talking about 3F4 > F1 > 3F4 > B3 > T3 > B4

Are you referring to the 5F4 rotation that doesn't need umbral hearts?

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Yeah i mean 5xf4 rotation (which is techically 4.05 rotation because 4.0 rotation was 4xf4). There's no really any reason to use b4 outside of opener or when foul is on cd during umbral phase but mana is not ticking fast enough to just cast single t3 and switch.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

There's no really any reason to use b4 outside of opener or when foul is on cd during umbral phase but mana is not ticking fast enough to just cast single t3 and switch.

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Do you mean that its a gain to not cast Bliz 4 and wait for a slow manatick in the event that you have no foul or thunder cloud proc? additonally.. There are alot of occasions when you may have foul but you dont have thunder cloud. If you use Foul first then thunder 3. you run the risk of entering astral with slightly too little mana to cast the final F4

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Originally Posted by prophecy4seen

Do you mean that its a gain to not cast Bliz 4 and wait for a slow manatick in the event that you have no foul or thunder cloud proc?

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No i mean its worth casting b4 instead of waiting for mana tick to get full mana for astral phase if foul is on cd during umbral. It shouldn't happen too often though.
And when using 5xf4 rotation there's usually no mana left to cast anythnig requiring mana after switching to umbral. So in that case the priority is - casting thundercloud first then foul -> casting foul fist then t3 -> waiting for manatick and hardcasting t3 then foul. If foul is on cd replacing it with b4 may be an option to avoid situations where mana is not fully restored during astral. I hope you understand what i mean.

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additonally.. There are alot of occasions when you may have foul but you dont have thunder cloud. If you use Foul first then thunder 3. you run the risk of entering astral with slightly too little mana to cast the final F4

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I don't think it can be 100% avoided, unless you want to wait for manatick to hardcast t3 before foul. I just accept it as is and cast 4 f4 during astral in that case.
Alternatively, if convert is not on cd, it can be used to change 4xf4 into 6xf4 without wasting mana.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

I don't think it can be 100% avoided, unless you want to wait for manatick to hardcast t3 before foul. I just accept it as is and cast 4 f4 during astral in that case.
Alternatively, if convert is not on cd, it can be used to change 4xf4 into 6xf4 without wasting mana.

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Never do 4xF4s. Like, ever. Going way overheel trying to only go for 5xF4s can lead you to this situation which is a huge dps loss. Numerically, 4xF4s is only a slight PPS loss compared to casting B4 with 6xF4s, however, a rotation with only 4xF4s is too short. You'll have a considerable high chance of getting back to UI with no Foul and having to wait for a mana tick which means standing around for possibly 3 whole seconds doing nothing. If you are unsure whether or not you'll get a mana tick after casting Thunder III, go the safe route and cast B4. B4 is higher PPS than the previous scenario (4xF4s) and has the added benefit of giving more time for your gauge to fill since the rotation is 2-3 GCDs longer. A more filled gauge means you can do more 5xF4s rotations which is your goal. Also with enough practice you can predict like 95% of the time if you are getting the tic or not, but this will vary with your current spell speed though.

OK, so if I get this straight, the optimal strat is this:

5F4 > B3 > T3 > foul > F3 > repeat

Then do B4 into 6F4 on occasion to ensure that I can always foul.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Never do 4xF4s. Numerically, 4xF4s is only a slight PPS loss compared to casting B4 with 6xF4s, however, a rotation with only 4xF4s is too short. You'll have a considerable high chance of getting back to UI with no Foul and having to wait for a mana tick which means standing around for possibly 3 whole seconds doing nothing. If you are unsure whether or not you'll get a mana tick after casting Thunder III, go the safe route and cast B4. B4 is higher PPS than the previous scenario (4xF4s) and has the added benefit of giving more time for your gauge to fill since the rotation is 2-3 GCDs longer. A more filled gauge means you can do more 5xF4s rotations which is your goal. Also with enough practice you can predict like 95% of the time if you are getting the tic or not, but this will vary with your current spell speed though.

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I see. how about sharpcast/triple cast application here? Currently i do 5xf4 but i would return to the 6xf4 whenever i know triplecast and sharpcast are off CD. Is this optimal? i have been wondering if there is a decent way to use sharpcast with thunder3 to ensure a tc proc for the next umbral rotation

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Also with enough practice you can predict like 95% of the time if you are getting the tic or not, but this will vary with your current spell speed though.

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This, yes. And usually when this happens i have convert to cover for it. Convert is pointless with 5xf4 rotation because theres not enough mana left to cast b3 after two additional f4. And honestly i never had 3 second doing nothing situations unless you have to wait for really bad manatcik with zero mana and zero procs left. There's always something to cast, just adapt your rotation depending on situation.

Ok, so here is what I have from the last few pages:

f4x5>b4>f4x4
only one opener now, the b4 opener
Only b4 when you kno you won't get a tick before f3 casts.
BiS is not figured out yet.
SpS>DH>Crit>Det

Questions:

What is the answer to the argument: 4.x is longer, so the t3p will push 4.x dps passed the f4x5 rotation? And the other argument I read was that f4x5 was too short which would cause a loss from lack of foul procs... I know for sure that f4x4 is too short and caused me all types of problems, so I all i care about are the previous 2 questions...

What number of mobs do we switch to AoE? Should we start at 2 mobs and do the f4 f4 flare flare rotation or should we single rotation up to 3 mobs like 2.x? Or should we single up to 5 mobs like 3.x?

BiS is beyond me atm. Can somebody point me to a thread where I can learn about it?

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

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I'm not sure i understand what you mean with the TC proc thing.
You can always hold it for almost 12 seconds (potentially altering your rotation to accommodate a better proc timing).
The only thing that makes the whole TC thing slightly more favorable in the 4.06 rotations is, assuming TC procs follow a uniform distribution (something something discretization due to 3 second server ticks), there are more timings in which you get a TC proc that result in less T3 clipping.
That's all, really.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I'm not sure i understand what you mean with the TC proc thing.
You can always hold it for almost 12 seconds (potentially altering your rotation to accommodate a better proc timing).
The only thing that makes the whole TC thing slightly more favorable in the 4.06 rotations is, assuming TC procs follow a uniform distribution (something something discretization due to 3 second server ticks), there are more timing in which you get a TC proc that result in less T3 clipping.
That's all, really.

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Out of time, I think the discussion I was reading was this... I'll try to get on later

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._new_rotation/

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

Out of time, I think the discussion I was reading was this... I'll try to get on later

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._new_rotation/

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Yea, that's what I was talking about.
That's the two extra T3 ticks you get in the 4.06 rotation.
They probably come out even, so you kinda just pick what suits the situation better.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Yea, that's what I was talking about.
That's the two extra T3 ticks you get in the 4.06 rotation.
They probably come out even, so you kinda just pick what suits the situation better.

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What changed between 4.05 and 4.06 that gives me 2 extra ticks? I thought nothing changed with Blm. Was it like a GCD or SpS change that I missed?

Also, anybody got any answers for any of my other questions roughly 4 posts up?

I just reached my Black Mage to 70! So, here's how I use my BLM. Instead of following a certain rotation, I just adapt to changes with procs!

Since Fire IV does not refresh AF, and it's just pure DPS with no other benefits whatsoever, I could weave in procs instead in place of one of the Fire IV casts, like Thunder III or Foul. This not only benefits by making use of all your procs, but also extend the Fire Rotation as I see fit. The only thing I need to keep in mind is to count those procs too, as I'll always count to 3 GCDs (or 4 with Ley Lines) before extending the AF duration with Fire I.

If Foul procs on UI, then I could weave it in at any point in time.

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

What changed between 4.05 and 4.06 that gives me 2 extra ticks? I thought nothing changed with Blm. Was it like a GCD or SpS change that I missed?

Also, anybody got any answers for any of my other questions roughly 4 posts up?

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Absolutely nothing. I was just reading up on SMN and 4.06 was in my recent memory. 4.05 = 4.06.
3 mobs you should aoe.
2 mobs it's... strange. You should always F4>F4>Flare>(something) without Triple. As for the something, double Flare VS Flare+F4 is dependant on mana ticks.
If the tick is fast, double Flare is better. If it's slow, F4 is better. I like the latter because it feels smoother, but we're talking 2 pps difference anyway.
With Triple, just Flare>Flare.

There's no absolute best "bis" for this job, and there never was.
This is because you need to adapt the amount of speed to how you're tackling the fight and how you play in general. I fit the speed for my very specific needs. You already have a rough stat scaling (courtesy of Hirose), so...

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Originally Posted by Lyrai_Celestine

I just reached my Black Mage to 70! So, here's how I use my BLM. Instead of following a certain rotation, I just adapt to changes with procs!

Since Fire IV does not refresh AF, and it's just pure DPS with no other benefits whatsoever, I could weave in procs instead in place of one of the Fire IV casts, like Thunder III or Foul. This not only benefits by making use of all your procs, but also extend the Fire Rotation as I see fit. The only thing I need to keep in mind is to count those procs too, as I'll always count to 3 GCDs (or 4 with Ley Lines) before extending the AF duration with Fire I.

If Foul procs on UI, then I could weave it in at any point in time.

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Foul isn't a proc. It's an actual spell (with a cast time and all).

I want your opinions, on V3s you think it's better to use triple right away or saving it for spellblade holy at the start?

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

only one opener now, the b4 opener

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Feels when I'm a rebel for never doing the B4 opener.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Feels when I'm a rebel for never doing the B4 opener.

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In a vacuum, the B4 opener isn't necessarily better.
The biggest advantage, to me, is that my AF lines up very perfectly with a lot of buffs that come out on 3rd/4th/5th/6th gcd, like Chain Stratagem, Trick Attack, Battle Voice and all that...

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Feels when I'm a rebel for never doing the B4 opener.

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Situational i guess. I actually use the sharpcast fire 1 opener for savage v3.0 this allows me to get through AF before spellblade holy goes out, and then foul is ready by the second UI so i can use the b4 rotation from there. I think the most important thing for BLM has not changed since the get go. "Always be casting"

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Originally Posted by prophecy4seen

Situational i guess. I actually use the sharpcast fire 1 opener for savage v3.0 this allows me to get through AF before spellblade holy goes out, and then foul is ready by the second UI so i can use the b4 rotation from there. I think the most important thing for BLM has not changed since the get go. "Always be casting"

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You can keep AF through spellblade and actually get the entire opener off in V3S tho.
Regardless of whether you delay Triple or not (I don't).

I've been the B4 opener in v3s, but have been dropping Ley Lines right from the start in the south cardinal, to just start casting right away. The reason being is that if you get tethered and wait to drop Ley Lines before your F1 cast, you'll waste most of it. I guess I could take the extra second to set up at my expected cardinal for Spell Blade Holy so I could drop ley lines there and recall to it? But eh, just used to minimizing movement if at all possible with BLM. Anyways, i have a couple of situational Thunder Proc questions. When I get a T3 proc while in AF, I save it for right after refreshing AF with my F1 cast, and if I have a T3 that procs after that refresh, I save it to after going back into UI. Now, sometimes you get a T3 proc literally while you're casting F3 while UI to go back into AF and that proc will not be up before you get back to the F1 cast, so what do we do with that proc? Do we cast it right after the F3 and are back in AF , or just let it go?

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Originally Posted by Kaalia_Stormborn

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I'd F4x2>TC>F to fish for a Firestarter (not really, I have enough speed to pull off all F4s and TC without dropping AF).

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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Maybe.
Dunno about DH, dunno about DH+CH, dunno if you're just missing a speed tier.
Depending on the pentamelds, the secondary advantage may also be able to close the gap. It's not always black and white like that.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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I mean, you are giving up a ton of Spell Speed and DH for CH and Det... 2 best stats for the 2 worst stats. The int *should* be enough to make it still worth it, so I don't know why your dps is lower. Thankfully tho, if you can clear O3S, the upgraded tome weapon is WAY better and the Omega Weapon is even better than that.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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I'm looking at this terrible staff. I almost rather save the tokens for my dark knight... any suggestions? I'm using Susanno but I've got the funds to get the crafted one...

Ok, some more questions

First, materia/stat question:

I read that it looks like a decrease in GCD cast time is affected by roughly 67 SpS. So, am I looking at my SpS total in multiples of 67 and cutting off as close to a multiple of 67 as I can or am I just going as high as available with whats possible to be melded into my gear? I don't have the savage gear yet, so I'd like to play around with the normal raid gear before committing my expensive materia to savage gear as I accumulate it. Thx...

Also:

At 70, which is the lowest ether that gives enough hp for a flare? I'd like to start gulping the sauce on my aoe rotations during experts...

Finally:

What are good foods and intelligence potions that are effective, but won't break my wallet? I'm not good enough at raiding to validate using the best stuff, so I just want to know what is at least effective. I'm eating marron glace (normal)/ sesame cookie (normal) and drinking mega potion of intelligence. I think maybe I should upgrade to eating Flaugnarde and drinking Max potions of intelligence, but I'm not sure if its worth the heavy price increase. I at the least want to use cheap stuff for the practice...

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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I should be up next in my static for the o3s upgrade item for the 330 weapon, but not opting to use it until it's upgraded. I don't think the int difference is quite there at 330 to make up for the loss of the other stats from the crafted staff.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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I know the feeling, that's why I'm waiting for my i345 drop to upgrade my weapon. Will stay with the pentameld crafted until then. It's more than enough to consistently clear this tier.

I apologize it's taken this long to get around to making edits to the Black Mage Guide. Prog, family emergencies, as well as vacation have delayed this much longer than I had originally hoped. But it is done and will continue to be updated throughout the xpac. I'm sure there are some spelling errors or things I may have missed. Feel free to let me know if you find any incorrect information.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I apologize it's taken this long to get around to making edits to the Black Mage Guide. Prog, family emergencies, as well as vacation have delayed this much longer than I had originally hoped. But it is done and will continue to be updated throughout the xpac. I'm sure there are some spelling errors or things I may have missed. Feel free to let me know if you find any incorrect information.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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How come you skip T3 in your opener?

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So I'm a little freaked out right now. I just spent an hour testing my rotation with the 330 tome weapon and I'm CONSISTENTLY lower dps than compared to the 320 penta melded staff... Crits all seem to be within close % to eachother. Am I missing something...

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You're not! In a vacuum the i330 weapon should be a 0.75% improvement (if the rest of your gear is i320 and damage formula is close to DRG--it usually has been). This is basically unnoticeable and could be confounded by any little thing being off.

is the 330 tome stick even worth it if I have a Susy stick?
Might as well give it to my monk >_>

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

is the 330 tome stick even worth it if I have a Susy stick?
Might as well give it to my monk >_>

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Yes, even though other stats are still bleh on either weapon (no ss as example) the Lost Allagan weapon has +1 dmg and has 16 int over Susano

http://garlandtools.org/db/#item/19780

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

You're not! In a vacuum the i330 weapon should be a 0.75% improvement (if the rest of your gear is i320 and damage formula is close to DRG--it usually has been). This is basically unnoticeable and could be confounded by any little thing being off.

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It's worth noting that the extra stats, DH, and Spell Speed leads the i320 crafted to be more consistent.

However, the giant crit boost from the i330 means that while it might be marginally less at times, it can and will swing for much higher when the crits start rolling in.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's worth noting that the extra stats, DH, and Spell Speed leads the i320 crafted to be more consistent.

However, the giant crit boost from the i330 means that while it might be marginally less at times, it can and will swing for much higher when the crits start rolling in.

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If they start rolling in. I have a dragoon in my static and even with Battle Litany up more often then not I wont get a single crit during its window since my crit is so low already.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

If they start rolling in. I have a dragoon in my static and even with Battle Litany up more often then not I wont get a single crit during its window since my crit is so low already.

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There is no pain like a critless litany.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

There is no pain like a critless litany.

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Honestly the hit to spell speed and direct hit just feels so... gross... while using the 330 weapon. The adjustment for losing 150 SS is just way to uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

is the 330 tome stick even worth it if I have a Susy stick?
Might as well give it to my monk >_>

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Well i was able to do 5.1k with it on o4 sss, which is about 100 better than susano's 320. Susano doesn't have that great stat distribution either, so its about dh vs det.