#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Fluid Aura could of been that if the devs did literally anything else with it other than deleting and replacing it with nothing lmao.

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Earth, Wind and Water elements? Those are for other jobs.
WHM is all about throwing glitter until the end of time now.

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Originally Posted by LuminaLumi

I did expert roulette as a warrior now that I'm on strike. I had a whm healer who kept spamming cure 2 even though I wasn't in any danger of dying or even taking any real damage. They did holy and glare a few times, but not a single use of Dia was seen. I wish we had a third dps instead. Healers are basically a nuisance in such content.

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Maybe that healer was trained by players than expect Healers to keep the party at 110% HP lol. I still see such people, despite most of us here knowing it's not the most efficient.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Earth, Wind and Water elements? Those are for other jobs.
WHM is all about throwing glitter until the end of time now.

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Indescribable agony
https://i.redd.it/5igxyvhn1hv51.jpg

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Originally Posted by LuminaLumi

I did expert roulette as a warrior now that I'm on strike. I had a whm healer who kept spamming cure 2 even though I wasn't in any danger of dying or even taking any real damage. They did holy and glare a few times, but not a single use of Dia was seen. I wish we had a third dps instead. Healers are basically a nuisance in such content.

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Tbh I do this sometimes just to see the animation, or as a convient button to press while I'm texting with my other free hand. It keeps folks alive while I can entertain myself elsewhere <3

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

ok so play harder content would be the answer to that.

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And when I'm spamming Dosis III 162 times which is more than every other button in my kit combined; including Eukrasia, which doesn't do anything by itself, then what am I supposed to do? The whole point of this thread and healer's overall frustration. There isn't any harder content that makes healer gameplay evolve beyond pressing the same single button a bazillion times. Not even Ultimate actually makes us genuinely heal.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And when I'm spamming Dosis III 162 times which is more than every other button in my kit combined; including Eukrasia, which doesn't do anything by itself, then what am I supposed to do? The whole point of this thread and healer's overall frustration. There isn't any harder content that makes healer gameplay evolve beyond pressing the same single button a bazillion times. Not even Ultimate actually makes us genuinely heal.

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This is the big problem. Even Ultimates have been cleared with no healer or solo healers. There IS no 'harder' content for us to heal just due to the combat design. All damage goes out in a scripted order that's easily handled by oGCDs, and if we have to GCD it's usually when the boss is invuln anyway. So just... what do we do? There isn't a win scenario available to healers right now. I wouldn't mind a more complex DPS rotation, but what I'd LIKE would be way more things to heal. I don't want DPS to be 90% of the buttons I press as a healer.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

My comment was sarcastic, in case you've missed it.

And yes, I've done all my quests because I do follow lore and story thoroughly, and that counts CNJ job quests as well.

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Helps to put /s at the end of your post. It is very easy to misinterpret the context of a post within a highly controversial thread.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Earth, Wind and Water elements? Those are for other jobs.
WHM is all about throwing glitter until the end of time now.

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I was shocked when I saw the media tour and WHM didn't even get any visual changes to the filler lol

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

RIP Fluid Aura

At first you were Knockback, Bind and Damage.
Then just Knockback and Bind...
Then just Bind,
And now you are gone :(

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That. But strangely, I still find myself calling the aquaveil fluid aura most of the time. I just can't get used to the name aquaveil.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Earth, Wind and Water elements? Those are for other jobs.
WHM is all about throwing glitter until the end of time now.

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Offtopic but This is what alienated me the most about the job, it underwent a complete change in its aesthetics. I know many people love the lily aesthetic but man do I miss the druid vibe it had. Will never forget about Aero III.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I was shocked when I saw the media tour and WHM didn't even get any visual changes to the filler lol

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This will be especially boring to look at when you do the MSQ. All you look at are the old animations for 95% of your time through the story quests. What an epic and engaging way to reach lvl 100 I must say!

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

The biggest problem with this thread, like most forum threads, is that many of the people expressing discontent disagree strongly with each other on how to resolve the situation and/or improve healing in the game. Almost everyone here is suggesting a different idea.

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Like Cordyceps, the issue has burrowed so deep into the nervous system that there is no single root you can look at to plug out and declare the issue fixed. It's a whole mycelium down there.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

and almost every different idea directly contradicts another person's idea

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But I frankly do not see this at all. I'm not sure how you got that impression. In fact what I'm seeing is the same ideas being repeated ad nauseam.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

yet Im told healers dont want more damage? Like bruh what even is this strike. I'd be ok if ppl ask to bring back old astro cards that had variety of buffs minus TP (your and OG if you know what that is, i dont miss it) Yet asking for engaging content means increasing dungeons to be even harder.....

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I do not necessarily want to do more damage; I want the damage I already do to be broken up across more pieces rather than loaded almost entirely into one spell.

Does that help clarify any confusion?

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Offtopic but This is what alienated me the most about the job, it underwent a complete change in its aesthetics. I know many people love the lily aesthetic but man do I miss the druid vibe it had.

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We're getting outside the topic of the thread but they really should add an official spell glamor system like the pet glamors. I would happily replace Glare 3 with Stone 1 and throw rocks at gods, Stone 1 gets replaced so early you're already at Stone 2 in Satasha.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

ok so play harder content would be the answer to that.

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I'm just going to keep linking this because these pictures really just answer this often repeated argument for me.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Also, picture(s) say a thousand words:

Scholar casts in top 5 speedrun, Savage, A12S/O12Sp2/E12Sp2/P12Sp2

HW:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...319&height=758

SB:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

ShB

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

EW

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...339&height=758

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50th percentile Scholar, Savage, A12S/O12Sp2/E12Sp2/P12Sp2

HW

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...369&height=758

SB

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...186&height=758

ShB

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

EW

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...382&height=758

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10th percentile Scholar, Savage, A12S/O12Sp2/E12Sp2/P12Sp2

HW

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

SB

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...261&height=758

ShB

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...392&height=758

EW

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...299&height=758

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The main problem is damage in the game, not the class designs themselves of healers. Healers have more than enough tools they need, they just have no need to use them.
People say that struggling parties are the most exhilerating on healers because you actually get to do something, or joke that they hope people will struggle.

A fundamental problem is that nothing deals any damage in the game. Vulnerability mechanics add to this problem, because what damage *can* be done makes you take more subsequent damage. Basically, 3 strikes you're out. If you get hit with a 3rd instance of damage, while you have 2 vuln stacks, you'll usually die if you're a dps, and as a healer for sure.
This is a problem because it prevents you from adding more damage to the game because any damage is highly punishing.
So, that leaves us with a playstyle of play perfectly or die, with nothing to heal in between. It should be okay to have aoe's that may be impossible to dodge in some circumstances. Instead because vulnerability is punishing, not immensely punishing, but punishing enough, it forces you to design aoe's to be easily avoidable and have practically no damage that isn't avoidable.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

The main problem is damage in the game, not the class designs themselves of healers. Healers have more than enough tools they need, they just have no need to use them.
People say that struggling parties are the most exhilerating on healers because you actually get to do something, or joke that they hope people will struggle.

A fundamental problem is that nothing deals any damage in the game. Vulnerability mechanics add to this problem, because what damage *can* be done makes you take more subsequent damage. Basically, 3 strikes you're out. If you get hit with a 3rd instance of damage, while you have 2 vuln stacks, you'll usually die if you're a dps, and as a healer for sure.
This is a problem because it prevents you from adding more damage to the game because any damage is highly punishing.
So, that leaves us with a playstyle of play perfectly or die, with nothing to heal in between. It should be okay to have aoe's that may be impossible to dodge in some circumstances. Instead because vulnerability is punishing, not immensely punishing, but punishing enough, it forces you to design aoe's to be easily avoidable and have practically no damage that isn't avoidable.

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Another one I can just use an old post for.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

But this point has already been addressed. Please look at the casts of final floor savages. A12S truly did not have that much more healing than P12S. Neither did O12S (the hard ones that xpac were in 4 and 8).

Same healing required by the encounter but much more different playstyles required of the player, at all skill levels. There is only one variable that changed: the job kits.

Additionally some of us have repeatedly said that you had to use your entire kit even in dungeons in HW and SB if you wanted to be optimal. Furthermore healerless dungeon runs in HW was next to impossible on patch, and in SB they were still difficult even with a Red Mage. Without a RDM or a PLD they were next to impossible too.

It is not set in stone that dungeons have to be so casual that you can efficiently run through them without using 80% of your kit. This isn't just a problem with WAR. I've done many GNB runs with 3 DPS, including with casual players. It's trivial.

We have gone from healerless runs in dungeons being outright impossible with almost all compositions to now healerless runs being trivial on 3 tanks and doable on DRK.

Do you really think the variable that changed was the dungeon damage profile?

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Originally Posted by LuminaLumi

I did expert roulette as a warrior now that I'm on strike. I had a whm healer who kept spamming cure 2 even though I wasn't in any danger of dying or even taking any real damage. They did holy and glare a few times, but not a single use of Dia was seen. I wish we had a third dps instead. Healers are basically a nuisance in such content.

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Believe me when I say this: everytime I zone into daily dungeon roulettes as any healer and see that I got paired with a WAR at lv56 or higher contents, I beg to the stars to (mis)align, hoping that they'll play like an absolute dog$h!t so I got something more to do.

Alternatively, I beg that somehow I can cause a glitch to the system and allow me to change to 3rd DPS so I can be more than a "3rd worse DPS" in the party. I'm NOT needed there.

Same can be applied to PLD from lv82 and above. They DON'T need me, at all.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Believe me when I say this: everytime I zone into daily dungeon roulettes as any healer and see that I got paired with a WAR at lv56 or higher contents, I beg to the stars to (mis)align, hoping that they'll play like an absolute dog$h!t so I got something more to do.

Alternatively, I beg that somehow I can cause a glitch to the system and allow me to change to 3rd DPS so I can be more than a "3rd worse DPS" in the party. I'm NOT needed there.

Same can be applied to PLD from lv82 and above. They DON'T need me, at all.

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I've only ever seen like 4 WARs die since EW... I'm not letting it happen again, regen pre-pull, asylum when up, PoM Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Assize, refresh regen when appropriate, its the most I need usually. I've needed tetra maybe once, twice at most.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

It's still low hanging fruit.

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If so many points people bring up to oppose #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE are low hanging fruit then that says more about the quality of "The Opposition(tm)" than anything else...Gonna be honest with you. The posters who don't agree with the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE cannot even agree amongst themselves why it shouldn't happen, or why healers are fine the way they are. Most of the posts amount to "Y-you can't change healers because...w-well you can't!" There are so many contradictory statements flying around, and not everyone that disagrees with the thread's initial premise can be right when they are outright contradicting each other's arguments.

I kind of admit that healer is boring right now but I don't think that's a problem at the level people in this thread think it is. While I'm personally down for them to increase damage output of mechanics and for healing to be made less standardized in pace I realize SQenix tries to balance content and class design so that low end content like experts can be cleared by basically anyone. This obviously makes it difficult to adjust things around a healer as its role is currently just to fix mistakes in this content which rarely even happen in the first place past week 2 in content that's designed to be "for everyone".

So rather than that I'd like for them to make huge sweeping changes for the current gameplay of "putting a rock on your 1 key". For example give them a picto-esque 123 that builds a resource of some kind that in turn gives access to something that gives class resources (like lilies for whm, aetherflow for sch, cards for ast, and addersting+addersgall for sge) since it would allow for the battle pace to be less monotonous and it would give players agency over when they can use their skills instead of just waiting for a timer to press buttons for scripted damage with no variation. This would allow for players to have extra potential to increase their participation and feel less "useless" when running content at all levels and start to incentivize players to think about optimization even before content where dps checks exist.

That said fight design is getting progressively harder at the top end to account for the dumbing down and homogenization of kits so I'm more or less OK with the DT changes for now, but come 8.0 I pray that they rework the healer role altogether since I can't imagine fight design getting much harder than TOP and still being doable without TOS violations even if they make it 100% downtime.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Believe me when I say this: everytime I zone into daily dungeon roulettes as any healer and see that I got paired with a WAR at lv56 or higher contents, I beg to the stars to (mis)align, hoping that they'll play like an absolute dog$h!t so I got something more to do.

Alternatively, I beg that somehow I can cause a glitch to the system and allow me to change to 3rd DPS so I can be more than a "3rd worse DPS" in the party. I'm NOT needed there.

Same can be applied to PLD from lv82 and above. They DON'T need me, at all.

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best duty to get as a healer is MSQ with a warr... I get to dps when everyone is up and actually get to heal the tank.. because I dont think they have any of that yet at the equalized level of 50.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

best duty to get as a healer is MSQ with a warr... I get to dps when everyone is up and actually get to heal the tank.. because I dont think they have any of that yet at the equalized level of 50.

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It isn't until 56 where they suddenly ascend into divinity, ironically I'm pretty sure they're the weakest tank at 50 as Holmgang doesn't have the heals to match it, and Thrill of Battle as just +% max health isn't exactly, well thrilling.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Really? I thought it was quite a pleasant exchange overall. I'm not keeping up with the whole thread, but the immediate responses I remember were quite cordial. There's always the chance for one or another unpleasant comment, but that's not the general tone at all.
And I disagree with your latter sentiment, there has been some good discussion and suggestions in the thread.
(Here's to 300 pages!)

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There was one post expressing a dislike of the extreme politeness of Japanese culture in a very rude way, but that's about it.

I don't think I can stop playing healer because I'm too attached to the role [and I really really love WHM], but I definitely have the same complaints as you guys and have been extremely aggravated when I get a Warrior in a queue. Saw this coming miles away when they decided to DOUBLE DOWN on Warrior's ridiculous healing instead of nerfing it. God, I hate this so much. [Note: I have no animosity towards Warrior players and would prefer people to enjoy playing what they like. I only object to the job's design, which makes my role feel useless.]

I get the feeling that most casual modern gamers just don't have the patience for support roles because the more recent RPGs I've tried cut out healing and support as much as possible for the RAW DAMAGE NUMBERS. Unfortunately, support mains like us are a minority. We're not as flashy and cool, according to them, so they'd rather eliminate us. They don't understand that being a healer and support is a power fantasy for some people as much as just ungabunga raw damage killdeath numbers. The satisfaction I derive from saving someone from the brink of death, carrying an entire group far surpasses that of merely being another one of the damaging drones that kills the boss. I had that experience reawakened in me when I got some newbies in a level 90 dungeon queue and I felt like a vital piece of the party rather than a big fat nothing. I had to rez, use CURE 2 BECAUSE I RAN OUT OF AFFLATUSES AND COOLDOWNS WITH HOW MUCH DAMAGE THEY WERE TAKING... it was glorious. After that, I felt a profound sadness. It is very unlikely I will experience that rush again.

We're just dead weight to them. I don't have much hopes for anything to change in the general gaming sphere, but MAYBE they'll listen to us in FF14 finally. I say this as a big MAYBE, because I've been around since Heavensward and saw the neutering of Scholar. The most likely scenario is making the healer role into a just support DPS as others have suggested and folding RDM, BRD, and DNC into it. It wouldn't be ideal, but at least I'd get to do something.

I might stick to Trusts so as to not fill the queues, to help in some minor way. Trusts are more fun anyway because they still kind of suck, especially if you do a full pull. I don't really play the game much anyway except for story and I mostly play with my tank husband [thankfully not a Warrior main], so I can just avoid joining queues as much as possible. If things get really bad though, I'll probably switch to RDM. I can't bear to leave behind support still and want to do it in some way, even if it's minor. Having a rez on a job is a must for me and they said they were thinking about axing it from SMN in the next expansion, so that leaves RDM as my only option.

I'm with you guys though! It's worth trying even if nothing is likely to happen.

I've got to tell you... this seems extremely petty. I've found that, over the years, Squeenix has made changes to a lot of jobs, some of which I liked, and some of which I did not. None, however, have ever ruined a job for me to the point I can't play it.

I can't choose what you do with your character, and I wouldn't attempt it. But I think the only time I've heard a more trivial complaint is when people were complaining on the Minecraft forums when they first added weather, that it "ruined the game."

If you don't want to heal, don't heal. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by KellyEwer

If you don't want to heal, don't heal. Simple as that.

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My brother in Hydaelyn, that's the entire point of the thread.

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Originally Posted by KellyEwer

If you don't want to heal, don't heal. Simple as that.

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That's...that's what we're doing...

So this whole thread is just about "content" that is so trivial that 4 bards could do it?

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

So this whole thread is just about "content" that is so trivial that 4 bards could do it?

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There are actual savage logs on the previous page, if that's trivial then surely we have a problem

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

So this whole thread is just about "content" that is so trivial that 4 bards could do it?

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Pretty much yeah. Healers are mad that warriors are good in dungeons and can't really think outside of that. A lot of them haven't even experienced higher-end content. The ones that have are saying they'd like more dps buttons, which the casuals are kind of just ignoring because it's specifically warrior that's ruining their jobs.

My dudes. Dungeons aren't good content. If you're basing your entire experience off of dungeon runs, your opinion is completely invalid. Unsub if you're not having fun. Be responsible for once in your lives. Y'all are actually beyond ridiculous at this point.

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

So this whole thread is just about "content" that is so trivial that 4 bards could do it?

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I think it's funny you used a 4 bard example. Of course you did.

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Originally Posted by Kazmarek

Pretty much yeah. Healers are mad that warriors are good in dungeons and can't really think outside of that. A lot of them haven't even experienced higher-end content. The ones that have are saying they'd like more dps buttons, which the casuals are kind of just ignoring because it's specifically warrior that's ruining their jobs.

My dudes. Dungeons aren't good content. If you're basing your entire experience off of dungeon runs, your opinion is completely invalid. Unsub if you're not having fun. Be responsible for once in your lives. Y'all are actually beyond ridiculous at this point.

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Dungeons and trials are the bulk of the game. Don't shill for certain jobs. Want the game to be better.

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

So this whole thread is just about "content" that is so trivial that 4 bards could do it?

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Dungeons are part of the complaints, but certainly not everything.

Do you have a video of running dungeons with 4 bards? That could be entertaining to watch. And it would be a good datapoint that supports the strike.

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Originally Posted by Arylett

[...] have been extremely aggravated when I get a Warrior in a queue[..]

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I do play Warrior , and I do feel a bit guilty when I que. Really, personally , I just really like seeing my HP rubberband up and down but thats besides the point.

I wish there was a way to communicate with healers without asking at the start of the dungeon "Hey, how hardcore do you want this run?" Similar to those WARs that apparently straight up ask healers to just not heal, where I pull wall to wall and let the healer handle my hp bar while I handle Mit [rampart, etc]

all people do these days in ffxiv is complain, I will not be participating in the strike :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by GoodPerson

I do play Warrior , and I do feel a bit guilty when I que. Really, personally , I just really like seeing my HP rubberband up and down but thats besides the point.

I wish there was a way to communicate with healers without asking at the start of the dungeon "Hey, how hardcore do you want this run?" Similar to those WARs that apparently straight up ask healers to just not heal, where I pull wall to wall and let the healer handle my hp bar while I handle Mit [rampart, etc]

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I don't mean to make any Warrior mains feel bad. I don't want to step on anyone else's enjoyment of the game. In this case, I merely blame the game designers, not the players for using the tools they were given.

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There pretty much isn't much content where I actually feel important. I actually did clear all of ShB's savage content, but I don't have time or energy for that anymore. What I'm asking for isn't much. The tank and other players don't have to be constantly dying in normal circumstances - just make me feel like it's necessary for me to be there and do my part. The DPS need to be there to kill the boss, the tanks need to be there to take the hits... and the healers are supposedly there to keep the tank alive so things don't snowball out of control. But tanks are just encroaching too much on healer responsibilities with all this self-sustain being added and this just makes me feel like my slot is being wasted because you could stick a DPS in there instead and get the content done much faster.

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Originally Posted by Majatok

I just like to throw out that there is more to the game then savage and Roulette.

Deep Dungeons, Field Operations (Bozja, Eureka), Solo MSQ Battles, Variant Dungeons, Fates, Hunts and more.

In all of this content, the healer role feels superfluous and dull.

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The devs have admitted to going all in on encounter design at the expense of sanding down jobs. If they're truly going to be thinking about what to do with jobs by 8.0, it's going to be very interesting to see what they can come up with given their philosophy so far is so totally one sided.

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Originally Posted by AntiqueCowboy

all people do these days in ffxiv is complain, I will not be participating in the strike :rolleyes:

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If I had a cookie I would give you it.

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Originally Posted by AntiqueCowboy

all people do these days in ffxiv is complain, I will not be participating in the strike :rolleyes:

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https://i.imgflip.com/6egxex.png

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Originally Posted by Arylett

I don't mean to make any Warrior mains feel bad. I don't want to step on anyone else's enjoyment of the game. In this case, I merely blame the game designers, not the players for using the tools they were given.

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Oh yeah no i totally get it, was just a random thought I had to cooperate so both parties could have fun <3

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Originally Posted by Kazmarek

Pretty much yeah. Healers are mad that warriors are good in dungeons and can't really think outside of that. A lot of them haven't even experienced higher-end content. The ones that have are saying they'd like more dps buttons, which the casuals are kind of just ignoring because it's specifically warrior that's ruining their jobs.

My dudes. Dungeons aren't good content. If you're basing your entire experience off of dungeon runs, your opinion is completely invalid. Unsub if you're not having fun. Be responsible for once in your lives. Y'all are actually beyond ridiculous at this point.

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IMO the content that the majority of the playerbase interacts with should be one of the pieces of content that highlights how useful each role is to the team the most, making an entire role feel worthless to even be in it is terrible game design and should be looked at improving.