Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'd wager that, in looking at the defensive cooldowns, you're looking left when you need to be looking right. Warrior is not a mitigation tank - so, survive elsewhere.

Hiir Noivl's posts here seem to have it down. If you're trying to mitigate - wrong class.

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You and he unfortunately do not know what mitigation means. Mitigate means to alleviate self healing is a form of "mitigation" damage reduction is a form of "mitigation" therefore they both are mitigation tanks which is what a tank is. A class with a greater ability to mitigate dmg. They just do it in different ways.

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Originally Posted by Faction

Someone who thinks he has a 1.25 second global cooldown probably sounds less stupid to a level 26 who doesn't yet know that such a thing is entirely impossible. Blind leading the blind.

Please tell people doing Coil how to play the game when you have absolutely no basis to even form an idea of how the class functions.

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Just.... what is your problem? No offense, but hi death, meet horse already. Play the class how you want or don't. If the Dev team is saying we are missing something with WARs and that they are so strong, that means the entire community is missing something. Why do I think that? Because of how everyone is saying PLD is so much easier. Better mitigation, gear, etc etc. You can't tell me the Devs are that horrible at playing PLD. I fail to believe you or Hiir has the right answer to your own pissing contests. Or anyone else's pissing contests at this point for the matter, but post this garbage in your own threads. This isn't about who is better or right, it's about YP's thoughts on the WAR. Im so maxing out Dex and then Piety.... :P

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

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Bragging about how awesome you are at garuda is like saying how awesome you are at killing lvl 16 story bosses while wearing DL gear. Garuda is at the point where my 7 year old nephew can beat it as everyone is geared for it now.

But continue to ignore my coil comments on how bad warrior tanks are on things that require both hands to beat.

Honestly, its getting harder to hear you all the way up here in turn 5.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I just did a great Garuda Run. We had a PLD who knew his stuff and with me We just stayed together and both tanked Garuda. I was able to freely DPS. When she was about to do Aerial Blast I lowered my DPS to make sure he had hate and then I took the red beam sister and just destroyed her HP and let the Party finish her off and went right back to Garuda.

It was one of the best runs yet with Garuda. I was taking some damage but I could heal myself for plenty and not take a whole lot of heals from the PLD.

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i can do garuda with only 1 tank , and bring another DPS instead of war OT (if u call tanking to that because the adds are destroyed in seconds) so what u really provide in that garuda run that no other DPS could?

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

i can do garuda with only 1 tank , and bring another DPS instead of war OT (if u call tanking to that because the adds are destroyed in seconds) so what u really provide in that garuda run that no other DPS could?

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Our FC runs it with 1 tank also. Having a 2nd tank on it is pointless when you're all rocking +1's

So which of OUR skills provides the be all end all that we are all missing? Because it sure as hell isn't anything else (cause everyone else could do it then aswell, and it wouldn't be much showing off if everyone could do it)

They could atleast give us a hint... t.t

so...warrior is for showing off? in other words, I tanked xxx as a warrior and survived, take that meteor!

if its for showing off does that mean it is MEANT to be harder to do as a warrior?

so paladin strolls through content that wasn't meant to be beaten and warriors limp to the gates and wonder wtf they're doing wrong.

...and the answer is research more and figure it out? that sounds like such a "I don't know what the problem is but, here is a puppy, look its cute"

to sum things up, Warriors = Hardest harder hard mode activate?


Apparently I'm the most unskilled Warrior out there and don't understand how any of these things work.

Fight needs 1 tank, who are you honestly going to pick at present, the warrior or the paladin? If gear is the issue does that mean ALL the gear in CT is for marauders? That paladins get no upgrades? Cause if one is presently preferred and one isn't and you upgrade both how will the weaker become the stronger unless the gear isn't scaled equally? don't they both wear the same gear save weapon/shield?

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Originally Posted by Guammasa

...does that mean ALL the gear in CT is for marauders? That paladins get no upgrades?

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Of course not, PLD are intended to skip CT and go straight to coil

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You like to throw troll bait in my direction instead of contributing you and others like you while, later on, you'll be playing WAR.

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Of course. By then they'll be buffed

Well looks like I picked the wrong class to level up then. Might as well quit soon, I can't be bothered leveling another class.

My question is, will they make Bahamut Labyrinth so long, that we will see, neo and zero bahamut??

And i think i saw bahamut from XIII being fought by lighting and a FFXIV party

yes i like bahamut, so who doesn't?

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Originally Posted by itstoasted

So which of OUR skills provides the be all end all that we are all missing? Because it sure as hell isn't anything else (cause everyone else could do it then aswell, and it wouldn't be much showing off if everyone could do it)

They could atleast give us a hint... t.t

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I don't think it's any one specific ability that is being overlooked, rather than a mentality, or style of gameplay. Perhaps we as a community, have overlooked something like how a specific stat when stacked, like skillspeed or parry, really effects gameplay, because once everyone saw how effective STR/VIT was it seemed like a waste of time to look elsewhere.

Speaking from personal experience being part of development teams for other MMOs (which I won't mention by name) I can say there were many times where as development, we would see one cookie-cutter build become popular and become "the only way to play", while the rest of us were rolling completely different builds and on lunch breaks saying things like, "What are they thinking?" "When do you think they will figure this out?".

To sum things up, I think there is still a lot we all have to learn.

Then explain to me what I am seeing wrong with expecting my active tank being able to actively mitigate the damage I am taking, becuase lowering my GCD.. does nothing, one IB more every 50 seconds is not worth the loss of 15% healing gained, atleast not if you calculate the HP/S value of your healers vs HP/S value of your IB


(i keep thinkign about active and passive shield hardeners from EVE, when I think about PLD and WAR.. if it wasn't clear to people what I meant)

Y'all are dumb if you think SE can play their game or their classes better than the players.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

I don't think it's any one specific ability that is being overlooked, rather than a mentality, or style of gameplay. Perhaps we as a community, have overlooked something like how a specific stat when stacked, like skillspeed or parry, really effects gameplay, because once everyone saw how effective STR/VIT was it seemed like a waste of time to look elsewhere.

Speaking from personal experience being part of development teams for other MMOs (which I won't mention by name) I can say there were many times where as development, we would see one cookie-cutter build become popular and become "the only way to play", while the rest of us were rolling completely different builds and on lunch breaks saying things like, "What are they thinking?" "When do you think they will figure this out?".

To sum things up, I think there is still a lot we all have to learn.

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Thing is, you want at least 7k5 hp for coil, 405 STR for dmg and new parry cap, 460 acc to not miss in coil,...
When you have all of this, its not like you have much more stat left (and this is in ilvl 90) so what's left goes into parry, which is pretty underwhelming I'd say.

What would help us a lot would be moving the healing buff from wrath to defiance, boosting a bit the %hp gained while lowering the damage reduction (if we're going to be squishier, we have to deal a significant amount of damage compared to PLD) and making bloodbath permanent while buffing the % leech. At an ilvl 90 gear, we should be able to do at least 150 HPS outside of IB which is only here as a reactive CD.

I'm against WAR getting PLD-like mitigation. Worst case would be IB not healing and instead resisting next hit, but this is pretty much the worst case scenario I would want.

People need to understand that we are supposed to be self healing tank and that, with propper buff/tweak in our kit this can be totaly viable. But for that, people also need to drop that retarded "We're tank we're not supposed to do damage" mindset.
If a DPS in your static gain 20/30 DPS all of a sudden, everyone's going to be happy with that, what's the difference if that added DPS come from your tank ? None.
If you do not care about your DPS as a tank, then WAR is not the class you need to play, since it's designed around that (but is currently underwhelming), roll PLD instead.

In short, give us more HP to be able to survive a burst phase, allowing us to do more damage which would affect dramaticaly a change that is much needed : Make us actual leech tank and give us a reliable, permanent, leeching.
Not PLD's mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

To sum things up, I think there is still a lot we all have to learn.

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Right now FFXIV is popular and theorycrafters are out in force. The effects of parry, strength and skill speed are mapped out. There is also very little variation in gear that a tank can acquire. Not to mention having to reach certain caps like another player said. In WoW the devs were flatout proven wrong by the player-base alone numerous times. SE also has a history of making up bullshit when it comes to balancing their own game.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

I don't think it's any one specific ability that is being overlooked, rather than a mentality, or style of gameplay. Perhaps we as a community, have overlooked something like how a specific stat when stacked, like skillspeed or parry, really effects gameplay, because once everyone saw how effective STR/VIT was it seemed like a waste of time to look elsewhere.

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You're so cute. Somehow, somewhere along the line, all of us doing Coil just missed out on something. You know? Just something. He doesn't know what. It's just something, ya know? Everyone's just missing it. One day, we'll all have an epiphany and move beyond the limitations of the abilities our class is given.

I wonder if you realize how dumb you sound every time you post. 0 substance, ever. No actual knowledge of how the class functions, just theory and speculation.

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Speaking from personal experience being part of development teams for other MMOs (which I won't mention by name)

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Do you actually think anyone believes you even for a second? Lmao.

All you need to do is reduce your GCD to 1.25, weaklings.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

*crazy talk*

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Speaking from personal experience, I remember making an extremely detailed post when BWL came out in WoW entitled "How to Circumvent Endgame Balancing." It detailed how with limited amounts of early drops out of BWL, a tank could use high levels of evasion to completely get around future itemization requirements and that there was no way for content to be balanced against this itemization. It was very simplistic. I never understood what the Devs were thinking. I waited for them to figure it out. Then I posted my post and defense was globally nerfed.

Any dev team that thinks it's going to know more than the player base is just dead wrong. Law of large numbers and differential success rates will trump the devs every single time.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

I'm not talking about story mode, and this isn't my first character.

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Sorry, you'll probably ignore this but could you post on your 'first character'. Would like to have a look at it. Thanks!

None of this will matter when they bring back ffxi ninja tanking and we all lose our tank role

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Originally Posted by Faction

Somehow, somewhere along the line, all of us doing Coil just missed out on something. You know? Just something. He doesn't know what. It's just something, ya know? Everyone's just missing it.

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If you read the interview at all, you would know that Yoshi-P is the one who said we haven't done enough research.

You wanted an answer from a Dev, well, you got one, sorry it wasn't the one you wanted.

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Originally Posted by Faction

Do you actually think anyone believes you even for a second? Lmao.

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I don't care if you believe me, I know who I am and what I've done; you're a troll and I don't need you to believe it. lol

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

If you read the interview at all, you would know that Yoshi-P is the one who said we haven't done enough research.

You wanted an answer from a Dev, well, you got one, sorry it wasn't the one you wanted.

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Actually, what I want to do is make fun of someone with no knowledge of game mechanics who constantly spams the forums as if his opinion is valued by anyone at all. Everyone else is talking mechanics and experience and you chime in every 2 posts to say "IT'S ALL STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES YOU IDIOTS. LEARN TO HARNESS THE TRUE POWER OF THE WARRIOR. USE SECOND WIND AND MANTRA." How about you at least read some tooltips before you post your drivel ever again?

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I don't care if you believe me, I know who I am and what I've done; you're a troll and I don't need you to believe it. lol

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You're a naive, enamored fan who hero-worships a game developer that you believe to be infallible, the chance that you have any industry insight at all is less than 0.

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Originally Posted by Faction

things

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lol, sure thing. If you think for one second game developers aren't normal gamers like everyone else that play all the big titles and play MMOs you are living a fantasy. You've probably grouped with developers and never even known it, why? Because we don't tell you, I'm not a developer for this game, and I'm not going to tell you which ones I have worked on, why? Because that is a huge NONO. XD

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/U_18389d_1055958.jpg

I am sorry Sephirah but Faction is entirely correct on the matter.

Do the math, look at all the tools available, Gladiator is just...better in every way outside of snap back Agro, which does not matter due to Provoke.
Back to grinding out FATEs to bring my Paladin past my Marauder.
Was gonna do it anyway, but the community, as well as the simple design of Marauder is un appealing.
They'll both be 50 when I am done, but its just annoying one cannot stick to the job they choose to main.

Gladiators need better CD's and mitigation.
If Warriors are taking 4.5k hits compared to a Paladin' 2.2k, then its a very big issue that self healing cannot compensate.

Every game developer I actually know has sucked in every game I've ever seen them play in. Playing games doesn't make you worth a shit at playing them.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

I am sorry Sephirah but Faction is entirely correct on the matter.

Do the math, look at all the tools available, Gladiator is just...better in every way outside of snap back Agro, which does not matter due to Provoke.
Back to grinding out FATEs to bring my Paladin past my Marauder.
Was gonna do it anyway, but the community, as well as the simple design of Marauder is un appealing.
They'll both be 50 when I am done, but its just annoying one cannot stick to the job they choose to main.

Warriors need better CD's and mitigation.
If Warriors are taking 4.5k hits compared to a Paladin' 2.2k, then its a very big issue that self healing cannot compensate.

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'fixed
/10char

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Originally Posted by Conna

Your history with SE must not go back very far. SE also thought that in ffxi warrior made a good tank...this was false. They thought Ninja damage was really good...this was false. SE has been wrong quite a bit actually,and unfortunately it takes them some time to realize that they screw it and correct problems all the time.

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And it's sad, really. I expected that in ARR and with Yoshi they will start listening to the community more instead of throwing a "l2p" on their face.

I don't know why you would think that, it's SE. They are never going to change.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

lol, sure thing. If you think for one second game developers aren't normal gamers like everyone else that play all the big titles and play MMOs you are living a fantasy. You've probably grouped with developers and never even known it, why? Because we don't tell you, I'm not a developer for this game, and I'm not going to tell you which ones I have worked on, why? Because that is a huge NONO. XD

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/U_18389d_1055958.jpg

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At this point you're just trolling. You don't have data. You don't have experience. You just have feelings. And you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

At this point you're just trolling. You don't have data. You don't have experience. You just have feelings. And you're wrong.

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he is one of that GLD who doesn't want MRD get buffed because he doesn't want to lose his main tank spot on 8 man

Kitru.. How much damage does Sword Oath can do? Its 50 but not 50%.. And that's only applicable to auto attack (Correct me if im wrong). You are right on berserk though but how does maim skill this advantage "disappear" out from a warrior?

Combo Action: Heavy Swing
Combo Potency: 190
Combo Bonus: Increases damage dealt by 20%
Duration: 24s
Grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

If this skill is combine with berserk, how much damage can a warrior give? And Fracture is 2.5s GCD and CoS is 25s GCD. As you mention that fracture skill is only a "tiny" increase DPS for a WAR and so does CoS too for PLD except Fracture skill have faster GCD than CoS. As i mention earlier on, i feel that WAR is 50% tank less than a PLD and 50% more dps than PLD

War does and able to do more damage than a PLD. It's depending on how you are going to play with it, combining what kind of based class skills & cross class skills before entering a dungeon.. Too bad you cant proved that..

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really strong with marauder

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Yoshi means that they can dish out some damage. That is all.

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Originally Posted by oceanlord

he is one of that GLD who doesn't want MRD get buffed because he doesn't want to lose his main tank spot on 8 man

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That's not true, re-read all my posts in the thread, and you'll get a clearer picture of what I'm advocating. What I'm advocating is that these classes were designed to tank in different ways. Giving WARs defensive mitigation goes against everything the class is, and would make the classes homogenous, and boring. I'm not against warriors receiving a buff in some way to help get their healing back in line. I have also said I volunteer as OT whenever the other tank is better geared than me (even if they are a war), my ego is not so big that I would refuse being an OT just because I'm the PLD.

That being said, warriors have been screaming "where do the devs say warriors should be this way?" "They'll never say it, they intend for them to do the exact same thing nomatter what!"


Well, they answered, and just because you don't like the answer, we cannot simply say "Yoshi is wrong".

I'm not saying he is infallible, but he has been doing wonders for this game, and maybe, just maybe, he knows what he's talking about.

So maybe, juuuuust maybe, we should listen.

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Originally Posted by oceanlord

he is one of that GLD who doesn't want MRD get buffed because he doesn't want to lose his main tank spot on 8 man

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8man dungeons will always require 2 tanks and best option always to have a PLD and a WAR with it.. I cant say that WAR have to be main tank but in any occasions where pld is down, a war will have to take over the tank job till PLD is revive and back in action. This is how i think..

Not to mention, 8man dungeons other than primal fights tend to have alot of adds appearing when engaging boss fight.. This is where WAR will shine alot!

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Originally Posted by Eylev

8man dungeons will always require 2 tanks and best option always to have a PLD and a WAR with it.. I cant say that WAR have to be main tank but in any occasions where pld is down, a war will have to take over the tank job till PLD is revive and back in action. This is how i think..

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Actually, many of us did not roll a WAR to just be an amazing OT or be a stand in till the PLD is back on his feet. If the character description told me that I would be an amazing OT and that was my role when playing a WAR, then I'll be content, unfortunately that is not the case here.

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Originally Posted by Eylev

Not to mention, 8man dungeons other than primal fights tend to have alot of adds appearing when engaging boss fight.. This is where WAR will shine alot!

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Errr.. :(

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

Actually, many of us did not roll a WAR to just be an amazing OT or be a stand in till the PLD is back on his feet. If the character description told me that I would be an amazing OT and that was my role when playing a WAR, then I'll be content, unfortunately that is not the case here.


Errr.. :(

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Then you failed to see how a WAR really works.. A WAR is to be sub tank and can dish out a good amount of damage than PLD. So while PLD is tanking, you can be just a DPS and when PLD is down, you have to be a sub tank.. This is how it works.. I will recommend you to switch class/job..

Im not asking you just to stand in till PLD is back on the feet, rather WAR is a dynamic class and has to be on the ball to dish out dmg while not taking over hate from pld and tanking, maintaining hate if pld is down..

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y: for those that really want to show off, i recommend warrior

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I'm starting to think we need a Yoshi P's facts website!

I know that some people are less than satisfied with Yoshi’s response, but how can we( the players) question what the creators( group of people that created the classes/jobs with a direct vision of how it should be played) are saying? I am more interested in what the developers know about warriors that we do not. Maybe we could get a response on how to correctly play the class and see where it goes from there?