RP shout ads are obstructive to chat and gameplay

I already mentioned in this thread what my idea would be , even though the devs know better what they can do so maybe they can come up with something better. the solution I suggest is a new chat filter that behaves like system messages so all online players can see it without having to sit idle in town. This also might help the fps dump from it being overcrowded but that's not a huge deal. Then I'd say a 60 minute delay between messages would work, since if linking a pf, that's how long a pf stays up before needing to be reposted, and it's also the norm for shout runners. I can't speak for limitations about servers or data centers, so they might have to world hop still and data center hop, but at least they wouldnt have to city hop as well. It would save them a ton of time so they can spend more time enjoying the activities they like. And it would annoy less people, and cause less problems that are often caused by flooded chats. And you're right, one msg per hour from a single person isn't spam. But nonstop messages from members of a certain community within the xiv community is spam, though it's not they can or would go after an entire community for it. Again , GM's chasing people down and punishing isn't a solution either. The devs giving something to them to make life easier for them and better for everyone else is a perfect solution

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Originally Posted by Gordita

I already mentioned in this thread what my idea would be , even though the devs know better what they can do so maybe they can come up with something better. the solution I suggest is a new chat filter that behaves like system messages so all online players can see it without having to sit idle in town. This also might help the fps dump from it being overcrowded but that's not a huge deal. Then I'd say a 60 minute delay between messages would work, since if linking a pf, that's how long a pf stays up before needing to be reposted, and it's also the norm for shout runners. I can't speak for limitations about servers or data centers, so they might have to world hop still and data center hop, but at least they wouldnt have to city hop as well. It would save them a ton of time so they can spend more time enjoying the activities they like. And it would annoy less people, and cause less problems that are often caused by flooded chats. And you're right, one msg per hour from a single person isn't spam. But nonstop messages from members of a certain community within the xiv community is spam, though it's not they can or would go after an entire community for it. Again , GM's chasing people down and punishing isn't a solution either. The devs giving something to them to make life easier for them and better for everyone else is a perfect solution

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https://gifdb.com/images/high/zion-w...te7dsyhh46.gif

It's like talking to a brick wall fr

Starting to think the people who come here to argue secretly hate rp people and venues since they don't seem to want them to have a new feature implemented that would be a win - win for literally everybody

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Originally Posted by Padudu

It's like talking to a brick wall fr

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At least it's kind of funny, I gotta admit it's entertaining to a certain extent

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Originally Posted by Gordita

Starting to think the people who come here to argue secretly hate rp people and venues since they don't seem to want them to have a new feature implemented that would be a win - win for literally everybody

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No most of these people like to play devils advocate over seeking ways to create middle grounds and improve the game. I already said here several times adding in a specific chat for Ads and Recruitment for players to spam to their hearts content would be the best solution. But these people just wanna pick at people.

While not the intent of this thread, I am rather curious about the venue you speak of your FC owning considering it seems rather difficult to actually reach max capacity of a venue. Though perhaps that is due to my assumption you mean a large home and not a smaller one.

Either way, as I've said I don't see anything being done here.

• Fellowships are awful and not the right solution for these advertisements.
• A global chat specifically for advertisements would be ineffecient because then everyone would want to use that to talk in, and it would repeat the current issue in your eyes.
• A new chat specifically for roleplay advertisements wouldn't work because unless they are the same range as shout chat, people will complain and not use it or just use both.

Even if fellowships are fixed, what would prohibit these people advertising from doing so? It's not against the ToS so if you wish to report every single one then by all means, but you may find it ignored.

Fellowships are essentilly mini-forums that people can post in and get notifications for. The main draw would be getting people to join a discord or some other means of communication, but what is more likely for someone to look at between fellowships and shout chat?

As someone from Crystal, what is considered by many the RP hub, the shout spam isn't as bad as it's being made out to be. I still see shouts for hunt trains or world bosses and it can be annoying if someone posts an ad right after, sure, but I wouldn't consider that to be obstructive to gameplay.

What is being portrayed here is that shout chat as it stands is unusable but I see people use it all the time to talk whenever I go to limsa which I will admit isn't as often as others.

Which I think is a core issue with the argument being brought up - every world and data center is different. The solution would need to cover all of them and everyone has varying experiences with it.

What I would like to see personally is a tag in party finder so it can be filtered out or specifically searched for by people who want it. That wouldn't change too much and something SE would likely be okay with doing. An RP status already exists in the game you can swap to whenever you like, so the icon can be taken from that.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

At least it's kind of funny, I gotta admit it's entertaining to a certain extent

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It's definitely been an amusing read. This and that Wuk Lamat forum have been pretty entertaining when I've had nothing better to do.

Fellowships aren't ideal for this, you're right. I touched on that already and how they could be improved.

The "global" chat I suggested also has a one hour timer between messages, that wouldn't be able to be used as a channel for chit chat.

The new chat wouldn't have a range. That's been mentioned a couple times but it's not exactly relevant since the new channel was suggested to behave like system messages so it doesn't matter where the readers are or the people typing in it as it would be seen by anybody online who has that channel displayed in a chat tab.

All of these topics have been addressed prior to this but I have no problem reiterating once more.

Shout chat is often unusable but not always, the bigger issue is that it's being used less and less by people daily, with the exception of people shouting various ads. It's being used less for content because of the insane amount of ads. Since there's so many ads, why not just have a new feature to keep the flooding of shout to a minimum?

"If people want to do content they can just check pf instead of joining things spontaneously via someone shouting and requesting help" is an argument that was brought up
Venue goers could just go browse the other tab in pf and shout runners could stop flooding shout chat, by that same standard. Nobody seemed to care about mentioning that though.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

No most of these people like to play devils advocate over seeking ways to create middle grounds and improve the game. I already said here several times adding in a specific chat for Ads and Recruitment for players to spam to their hearts content would be the best solution. But these people just wanna pick at people.

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I didn't mean you lol I meant the people who come here to contribute nothing and cause crap with arguments and making up nonsense etc. All the baseless nonsense to derail the thread without offering anything constructive... Just mind boggling how strange some people are.

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Originally Posted by Gordita

I didn't mean you lol I meant the people who come here to contribute nothing and cause crap with arguments and making up nonsense etc. All the baseless nonsense to derail the thread without offering anything constructive... Just mind boggling how strange some people are.

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Oh I know you didn't mean me, but your post is valid and no one wants to aknowledge how assinine their own reactions are because they can't see beyond their own noses.

Like by their own logic if you came on here back in early ARR complaining about the lack of dungeon exp, they;d just tell you to get over yourself and fate farm like everyone else. No room for critical thinking or dicussion.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Oh I know you didn't mean me, but your post is valid and no one wants to aknowledge how assinine their own reactions are because they can't see beyond their own noses.

Like by their own logic if you came on here back in early ARR complaining about the lack of dungeon exp, they;d just tell you to get over yourself and fate farm like everyone else. No room for critical thinking or dicussion.

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Yeah I've noticed this, it's really disappointing to see how much of a dumpster fire the entire forum has become, or maybe always has been? Either way, I was told, and expected much different than what I've come to see. The community actually was great back before shadowbringers. But I guess that corporate greed attracted some unsavory types and its all downhill after that. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

I still doubt the intent behind this thread. And any goodwill was lost on page 1 already making gross generalizations about venues, and conflating them with nightclubs and whatever gil extortion venue there is.

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Reading it again, this sentence makes no sense.
Let me try again:
What I meant is:
Generalizations about roleplayers and and RP venues, and conflating them with with nightclubs and the like.

My point is:
If people actually knew how to RP and organize properly, none of this would be an issue at all. But instead there is pointless competition and greed for fictional coin that only creates bad blood, harassment, spam and sabotage, and paywalled "roleplay" that creates bad blood because peiople don't know the difference between IC and OOC.
Spam is the symptom, not the disease.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Generalizations about roleplayers and and RP venues, and conflating them with with nightclubs and the like.

If people actually knew how to RP and organize properly, none of this would be an issue at all. But instead there is pointless competition and greed for fictional coin that only creates bad blood harassment, spam and sabotage, and paywalled "roleplay" that creates bad blood because peiople don't know the difference between IC and OOC.

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This may all be true, but that doesn't mean the OPs idea is bad. It's a suggestion that's been made before as well, and it's a win-win for everyone.

RPers and venues could have a dedicated chat that's opt-in and a dedicated RP tab in the PF for their advertisements.

Non-RPers and players who aren't interested in that part of the game wouldn't have to deal with the annoyance with the venue spam in /shout chat, leaving it open for other shouts like Hunts.

And if a venue spammed advertisements in the /shout chat, ignoring their dedicated channel, they could be reported to GMs.

I feel like it's a good idea, and probably not super difficult to implement. But for some reason, every time it's been brought it up, it gets shouted down. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

Okay, now you are just grossly exaggerating.

That is not happening in the game and you know it. None of the advertisements in Shout chat explicitly advertise anything of the sort. They are only ever described as +18 venues and often will drop their Carrd so you can learn more. Rarely will they even name drop "courtesans" in the Shout chat.

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But that's not actually what happens. Children shouldn't be playing this game except in 2 countries where the law is le isn't on this. For the majority of users the licence agree clearly states 16+. That is a minor yes. But nit a child which is considered under 13. In my country 16 is a legal age of consent. I understand how annoying these things are. But exaggerating and making things into mountains will not push your cause

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

This may all be true, but that doesn't mean the OPs idea is bad. It's a suggestion that's been made before as well, and it's a win-win for everyone.

RPers and venues could have a dedicated chat that's opt-in and a dedicated RP tab in the PF for their advertisements.

Non-RPers and players who aren't interested in that part of the game wouldn't have to deal with the annoyance with the venue spam in /shout chat, leaving it open for other shouts like Hunts.

And if a venue spammed advertisements in the /shout chat, ignoring their dedicated channel, they could be reported to GMs.

I feel like it's a good idea, and probably not super difficult to implement. But for some reason, every time it's been brought it up, it gets shouted down. *shrug*

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Oh no, I am not against OP's idea.
It's the discourse surrounding it that annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

This may all be true, but that doesn't mean the OPs idea is bad. It's a suggestion that's been made before as well, and it's a win-win for everyone.

RPers and venues could have a dedicated chat that's opt-in and a dedicated RP tab in the PF for their advertisements.

Non-RPers and players who aren't interested in that part of the game wouldn't have to deal with the annoyance with the venue spam in /shout chat, leaving it open for other shouts like Hunts.

And if a venue spammed advertisements in the /shout chat, ignoring their dedicated channel, they could be reported to GMs.

I feel like it's a good idea, and probably not super difficult to implement. But for some reason, every time it's been brought it up, it gets shouted down. *shrug*

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Two questions:

1. What is forcing anyone to actually use the new chat?
An argument I heard before in one of the previous threads on this topic is that if a channel is opt-in, it might lead to a smaller client base for the venue community to pull from and less reason to use it. To put it another way, if they aren't meeting the same profits/occupancy (because I fully agree with Berry on their assessment of the venue scene, money is King), I wouldn't put it past anyone to figure out a way around it (maybe by utilizing say chat on a throwaway alt instead of shout chat and standing near the Aetheryte...which is what bots already do and I never seem to miss one of those when I go into Limsa....). Free trial alts can't use shout chat but they can use Say and they can also get access to the NN. People already put venue ads in there on occasion.

2. Would the GMs actually be able to efficiently handle reports related to the new system?
As it stands right now, issues take quite a bit to be resolved (my stalker case took 2-3 days) if they're resolved at all. People have said they reported the same person multiple times over months and they're still in the game doing their thing (i.e. feet pics person for example lol). If a system like this was implemented, do you think the current GM response would be enough or would it need to become more efficient (probably through hiring more people)?

I'm not against the idea of a RP only chat/PF tabs (as someone who wants Other to just be for non-RP lol), I just can see a couple loopholes that would lead to people continuing to do the same thing they were, even if modified to fit new constraints. At the end of the day, the majority of the club/brothel community is in this to make money (gil or cash), so I would think they would need to make a somewhat similar amount through this new tab to be incentivized to use it instead of normal shout chat/loopholes. I wish it wasn't like this but as I've also said in previous threads, it's depressing how far the venue scene has fallen compared to pre-Covid.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

1. What is forcing anyone to actually use the new chat?
An argument I heard before in one of the previous threads on this topic is that if a channel is opt-in, it might lead to a smaller client base for the venue community to pull from and less reason to use it. To put it another way, if they aren't meeting the same profits/occupancy (because I fully agree with Berry on their assessment of the venue scene, money is King), I wouldn't put it past anyone to figure out a way around it (maybe by utilizing say chat on a throwaway alt instead of shout chat and standing near the Aetheryte...which is what bots already do and I never seem to miss one of those when I go into Limsa....)

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The ToS would force them to use the chat. If they don't use it, they get reported. As for throwaway alts, how's that different to RMT bots? Report/Blacklist and wait for the banwaves.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

2. Would the GMs actually be able to efficiently handle reports related to the new system?
As it stands right now, issues take quite a bit to be resolved (my stalker case took 2-3 days) if they're resolved at all. People have said they reported the same person multiple times over months and they're still in the game doing their thing. If a system like this was implemented, do you think the current GM response would be enough or would it need to become more efficient (probably through hiring more people)?

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I'm aware, I've also been in that situation. So, in your mind, the solution to this isn't to petition SE to provide more resources and liberty to act for their GMs, but instead, let's not do anything about it at all? Everything should just be left to inaction?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I'm not against the idea of a RP only chat/PF tabs (as someone who wants Other to just be for non-RP lol), I just can see a couple loopholes that would lead to people continuing to do the same thing they were because there's hardly any enforcement of the ToS to begin with in this game.

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This is an issue for SE to fix, not the players. They should enforce the ToS or provide proper tools to blacklist/ignore harassers too.

And while we're on the subject, I'd also like a whitelist/blacklist for my private home too, and the ability for venues to kick troublemakers. It's a private house afterall, and if someone won't follow the owner's rules, they shouldn't be welcome on premises.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

The ToS would force them to use the chat. If they don't use it, they get reported. As for throwaway alts, how's that different to RMT bots? Report/Blacklist and wait for the banwaves.



I'm aware, I've also been in that situation. So, in your mind, the solution to this isn't to petition SE to provide more resources and liberty to act for their GMs, but instead, let's not do anything about it at all? Everything should just be left to inaction?


This is an issue for SE to fix, not the players. They should enforce the ToS or provide proper tools to blacklist/ignore harassers too.

And while we're on the subject, I'd also like a whitelist/blacklist for my private home too, and the ability for venues to kick troublemakers. It's a private house afterall, and if someone won't follow the owner's rules, they shouldn't be welcome on premises.

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1. The ToS, in my opinion, is currently used as guidelines more than actual punishable actions (considering what people have been getting away with). You can report them all you want but they'll still be there in game the next day, week, month, etc.. Banwaves are also irrelevant if the accounts are on free-trial and a new one can just be made in a few minutes. Why do you think the same sites are still advertised by bots in main cities even after banwaves, just on different named accounts? Because it's that easy to just get a new one lol. In my opinion, they'd have to tighten up Free Trial even further to prevent this from being used.

2. We've been asking for more help from SE for years in terms of better handling of reports. This isn't anything new, I'm just in the camp of: "I don't expect them to do anything at this point". Maybe if they take a money hit because of this it'll affect some change.

3. I agree it is, I've also been in the vocal camp of wanting better blacklisting options for players due to my own stalking incident. However, that's also something I've been waiting 1y+ for and also take the viewpoint of "I don't expect them to do anything at this point." Again, maybe if they take a financial hit because of it, it'll change.

These are all things people have been asking for, but it falls on deaf ears. We asked for it in SHB, nothing in EW. We asked for it in EW, nothing mentioned yet for DT (I can't speak on ARR-STB since I wasn't there for it). If it doesn't come for DT, I'm officially wiping my hands of it because it really just says that they have no intention of helping provide better security options for their community.

Nothing will ever change if people keep a defeated mindset from the start. Stand up for what you believe in and don't back down.
"Lol they don't care nothing will happen you're wasting your time" types will never see anything change for the better. Continued support and unity on a topic is the only way to see change.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

1. The ToS, in my opinion, is currently used as guidelines more than actual punishable actions (considering what people have been getting away with). You can report them all you want but they'll still be there in game the next day, week, month, etc.. Banwaves are also irrelevant if the accounts are on free-trial and a new one can just be made in a few minutes. Why do you think the same sites are still advertised by bots in main cities even after banwaves, just on different named accounts? Because it's that easy to just get a new one lol. In my opinion, they'd have to tighten up Free Trial even further to prevent this from being used.

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Alright, how would you fix it?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

2. We've been asking for more help from SE for years in terms of better handling of reports. This isn't anything new, I'm just in the camp of: "I don't expect them to do anything at this point". Maybe if they take a money hit because of this it'll affect some change.

3. I agree it is, I've also been in the vocal camp of wanting better blacklisting options for players due to my own stalking incident. However, that's also something I've been waiting 1y+ for and also take the viewpoint of "I don't expect them to do anything at this point." Again, maybe if they take a financial hit because of it, it'll change.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

These are all things people have been asking for, but it falls on deaf ears. We asked for it in SHB, nothing in EW. We asked for it in EW, nothing mentioned yet for DT (I can't speak on ARR-STB since I wasn't there for it). If it doesn't come for DT, I'm officially wiping my hands of it because it really just says that they have no intention of helping provide better security options for their community.

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That's all you really can do. Petition them, if they don't change and you reach your boiling point, leave. If enough people do the same, they'll address it.

This still going. I mean I guess they could take time to program a venues name and a few different variations into shout and yell chat codes then somehow manage to put a hard limit on characters to be used.

Then somehow have the system recognize that the ad was sent so further ads for said place are auto blocked in said town

That's all you really can do. Petition them, if they don't change and you reach your boiling point, leave. If enough people do the same, they'll address it.[/QUOTE]

If they're smart and respect their paying customers they'll address it before people become upset and start leaving

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Originally Posted by Gordita

That's all you really can do. Petition them, if they don't change and you reach your boiling point, leave. If enough people do the same, they'll address it.

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If they're smart and respect their paying customers they'll address it before people become upset and start leaving[/QUOTE]

Hahaha ha oh God too funny. The only respect they give is to people from their region. Example is the Japanese forum ppl going off on them about that samurai changes

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Originally Posted by Gordita

If they're smart and respect their paying customers they'll address it before people become upset and start leaving

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RP ads aren't the reason why people are leaving this game lol.

On top of that, you're still paying for a sub lmao so clearly it's not making you THAT upset.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

If they're smart and respect their paying customers they'll address it before people become upset and start leaving

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RP ads aren't the reason why people are leaving this game lol.

On top of that, you're still paying for a sub lmao so clearly it's not making you THAT upset.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the most annoying fallacies I see all the time. Most paying consumers will speak their minds and create suggestions and ways to fix an issue so they maintain their continued use of said service over just terminating. Hence why most people keep faith in their games.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

This is one of the most annoying fallacies I see all the time. Most paying consumers will speak their minds and create suggestions and ways to fix an issue so they maintain their continued use of said service over just terminating. Hence why most people keep faith in their games.

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I didn't say that, whoops. Gordita did. I think the quoting thing became fucky wucky somewhere.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

This is one of the most annoying fallacies I see all the time. Most paying consumers will speak their minds and create suggestions and ways to fix an issue so they maintain their continued use of said service over just terminating. Hence why most people keep faith in their games.

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I thought it was the other way round. Vast majority of customers just leave.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

I thought it was the other way round. Vast majority of customers just leave.

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Given Yoshida has created a situation where people built faith in him and his team, people will want to try and make things better, and given MMOs usually turn into a hobby for a lot of people they would like to keep said hobby, for many reasons, usually emotional attachment.

The quote feature got broken with one of my replies and it snowballed from there , neat. Now even the forum is putting words in other people's mouth. Lmao

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

As much as I dislike it too, it's not hurting anyone nor obstructing gameplay. Just ignore it and let people enjoy things - be it in their roleplaying.
As someone who AFKs in towns a lot, I don't mind it and I am used to it.
If I want peace and quiet, I'd hang in my house or somewhere quiet like Sharlayan.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...132/cover2.png

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If it wasn't causing disruption and annoying players, this thread wouldn't exist. It is a problem and has been a problem for a long time. Just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean that there isn't a large number of people who do find it bothersome , to say the least. Nobody is stopping rp people from rping, nobody is stopping them from enjoying what they like. Giving them a better way to advertise without causing disruption while keeping shout chat free of spam is Infact beneficial to them, and everyone else

Turning off shout chat is not a solution, if you read anything in this post at all. Now quit with the disrespect and harassment. You still have done nothing useful in this thread, just mocking and disrespecting people with an extremely stuck up and ignorant attitude, it's very irritating. Find a better use of your time kid.

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Originally Posted by Gordita

If it wasn't causing disruption and annoying players, this thread wouldn't exist. It is a problem and has been a problem for a long time. Just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean that there isn't a large number of people who do find it bothersome , to say the least. Nobody is stopping rp people from rping, nobody is stopping them from enjoying what they like. Giving them a better way to advertise without causing disruption while keeping shout chat free of spam is Infact beneficial to them, and everyone else

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This thread exists specifically because it annoys you and a select others lol. There's not a "large number of people who find it bothersome" to be seen other than what, 5 forum members who complain about it?

And tbh, the shout chat that isn't RP/FC shout ads isn't usually anything other than banter or hornyposting in Crystal.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

This thread exists specifically because it annoys you and a select others lol. There's not a "large number of people who find it bothersome" to be seen other than what, 5 forum members who complain about it?

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If you think this thread contains every single player in the world who has an opinion on the matter you're sorely mistaken. Sadly, a lot of people don't come to the forum because of how poorly people behave in here. Go pop around servers across na, and ask in novice how people feel about shout spam and i guarantee you'll find a lot of people who say it's annoying

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Originally Posted by Gordita

If you think this thread contains every single player in the world who has an opinion on the matter you're sorely mistaken. Sadly, a lot of people don't come to the forum because of how poorly people behave in here. Go pop around servers across na, and ask in novice how people feel about shout spam and i guarantee you'll find a lot of people who say it's annoying

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I never said that lmao. And I legit live in Crystal where RP/FC ads are the norm, no one gives a single fuck because we can usually just yknow, ignore it. It's text like anything else.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

And tbh, the shout chat that isn't RP/FC shout ads isn't usually anything other than banter or hornyposting in Crystal.

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That's what I don't get about people who ask to give venues their own chat. As it is right now, shout chat in city's is used for almost nothing else. A hunt train shout here and there too but not much else.
Why would we need another chat to essentially do the exact same thing that shout (in city's) already is? Other than you don't want to see it and don't want to toggle shout chat off/on.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

That's what I don't get about people who ask to give venues their own chat. As it is right now, shout chat in city's is used for almost nothing else. A hunt train shout here and there too but not much else.
Why would we need another chat to essentially do the exact same thing that shout (in city's) already is? Other than you don't want to see it and don't want to toggle shout chat off/on.

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It's because venue spam has taken it over , new people immediately turn it off, veteran players won't do that though, because we have used the chat for all kinds of things since before venues were so popular. And shout chat is still used for a lot of things related to gameplay and doing content. Also giving things away at random , etc. So I should turn off shout chat now after 9 years because venue people obnoxiously spam chat and I should miss out on these things ... This is the solution instead of giving them a better and easier way to be heard and seen? The logic behind arguing against this new and improved way for venues to get people at their door escapes me, and makes me concerned for humanity at the same time lmao

The fact that so many people immediately disable these chats upon starting the game, within a couple hours, should be a huge issue with venue people. They're driving away their own customers before they even get a chance to find out venues exist. Even more reason to support this.

The logic at play when applied else where. *No one uses dungeons for EXP, so why give them EXP?* *No One Else is Farming for Mounts on my server, so mounts must not be important* *No One Else uses Mit so Mit Must Not Be Important* I can keep going.

Like a lot of the reason things have occured is due to there being no consistent regulation on what people do and people adjust to it. Like in other MMOs people still talk in game regularly. In XIV? Dead quiet in most places, people do not talk like it's an MMO. So hey lets fix part of the problem.

But no let's let issues within the game fester and become worse, same attitude towards the issues with Job Balance and Content Design, and The lack of a Midcore, the lack of reasons to do higher tier content that that isn't just Ultimates. Like it's ok for ya'll to admit you don't want things to be better, or care about the wellbeing of the game.

My personal take: the /shout and pf ads are a nuisance. Whether you think venues are appropriate, or what people's rights are, or whatever morals or opinions one may have on the issue, or speculation on what SE will or won't do doesn't change the fact that it's very annoying to see your chat spammed with ads in populated cities and duplicated in party finder. They're too numerous, they shouldn't be encouraged. I like a clean chat. So I, for one, hope there's a way to eliminate or contain them, or reduce them. Maybe have a few designated family-friendly servers? Where there's stricter moderation? I don't really know. But it's worth exploring whatever possibilities might exist that keep the ads in check.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

The logic at play when applied else where. *No one uses dungeons for EXP, so why give them EXP?* *No One Else is Farming for Mounts on my server, so mounts must not be important* *No One Else uses Mit so Mit Must Not Be Important* I can keep going.

Like a lot of the reason things have occured is due to there being no consistent regulation on what people do and people adjust to it. Like in other MMOs people still talk in game regularly. In XIV? Dead quiet in most places, people do not talk like it's an MMO. So hey lets fix part of the problem.

But no let's let issues within the game fester and become worse, same attitude towards the issues with Job Balance and Content Design, and The lack of a Midcore, the lack of reasons to do higher tier content that that isn't just Ultimates. Like it's ok for ya'll to admit you don't want things to be better, or care about the wellbeing of the game.

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The problem with this logic is that it is unequivocally false. You are conflating two separate issues which have no correlation. If people are not talking, it's not because of shout chat, but because they have other avenues to talk in. Most people in this game appear shy, so they would likely remain in FC chat, party chat, or tells. However, you still get people talking in Shout chat occasionally or even say chat.

Wasn't this issue initially was that it is obstructive to gameplay like Hunts? Which still happen, I see them from time to time.

Everyone uses dungeons for experience.
People farm mounts constantly.
Everyone uses mitigation.

You can keep going, but you're wrong every time.