G-give it Back T---T; !!

Give back stances, fairies, time magic etc.

But they won't ever go back~

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Originally Posted by IckeDerTyp

Give back stances, fairies, time magic etc.

But they won't ever go back~

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Back so ppl can ignore them and grief for uptime? They didn't work in the past and they won't work again...

The future is now old man

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Back so ppl can ignore them and grief for uptime? They didn't work in the past and they won't work again...

The future is now old man

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An expressionless future~

We'll talk again in a few years, my child :3

Nah. Keep the meme up. Let the dev and everybody sees 'em, thanks!

Love Shinten spam /s

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

.now ur just patronising. There isn't any good substance to why bringing it back is beneficial for the game. Nobody's saying ur being toxic but beating a dead horse is still beating a dead horse. Ppl are loosing interest and the meme just isn't funny anymore its annoying

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I was speaking about the forums in general.

Also, what are you talking about? There are justifiable reasons why bringing it back would be beneficial for Samurai's rotation, such as that it created anchor points in your rotation that gave structure to how you'd spend Kenki outside of your two minute burst. Now, it's just the Shinten gauge. Kenki is lacking strong alternative ways to spend it, which is sort of the point of a gauge--to act as a resource for a special set of actions. But what I would consider even more important than that: people liked it.

This is a game. A game is supposed to be fun. When you remove something from the game, and the players who oppose feel that their fun has been taken away while the players who support were not bothered enough to complain about it while it was here, then that is a misstep. Your indifference to it existing or not existing is not an adequate trade off for the dissatisfaction generated from the players who cared about it.

Dead meme or not, if people want Kaiten to come back, that's their feedback to give.

Saying "Bring back Kaiten" is no less feedback than "Bring back exploratory zones", so how about people stop gatekeeping feedback and just let people ask for what they want, eh?

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

You should actually read the text not just the title...

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You mean this text?

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

No. Really. You know who you are. Every single thread that goes up. Negetive or positive you try to silence the OPs or even personally attack them when they say what you don't like. [ and no were not talking about constructive disagreement. Were talking about the same people commenting the same thing on every single thread] "bye" "quit the game pls" "we dont want you here"

It isn't making you look smart. The class isn't laughing with you. You're bumping threads to be seen by more people that you hate. Thus feeding the op when if your right and they just wanted attention; starving them of it is so much better a tactic to make them go away.

It just feel like flinging for the sake of flinging and not actually believing in anything you say. Cbu3 and yoship aren't vulnerable maiden's. You don't have to defend there honour

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I do wonder what that means other than you being hypocritical with your current responses in this thread. Also you may want to take your meds before you try to respond, that is borderline unreadable.

EDIT: And because I saw this other thread from you just below this one, I just had to add it in to showcase how all you do is pointlessly whine about "1 tiny aspect" every time. You know, the thing you accuse anyone who dares bring up Kaiten of? Yeah that thing:

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

(I cant fix the typo)
I'm sick of seeing ppl say ffxiv has an amazing community. It doesnt, everywhere I go every tiny crevice has toxicity and elietism. Lethargic 1 1 1 spammers in duty roulette, Party finder, megalomaniac fc leaders. Pvp "nice job" spam, toxic mentor and anti mentor rhetoric and even here on the forums. I knew this community had issues since some time. But when did we evolve into feral beasts attacking each other for our mogstation purchases shouldering the blame off yoshi p and onto other players.

It's true that buying cashshop items sends a message to them that its OK to make them. But it's not fair to shame players for spending there hard earned cash on things they enjoy. This community is supposed to be better than this...

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You created that thread with the express purpose of crying about someone "bullying" you about your store glamour, with added whining about how people in DF are bad. That thread warrants existence, but this doesn't, for what reason exactly? Oh is it because *you* made that thread, but you didn't make this one, and consequently people replying here takes away attention from you and your several other pointless doomposting threads? Is that why you come in with your responses, because you feel bad that some other thread is getting any attention, which means *your* threads get slightly less attention?

why are maleras so schizophreic

Sindrii is TOTALLY right. We need to focus on the bigger issues like making sure that the devs delete positionals, dots, most of our rotations, buffs etc. because these hamper my enjoyment of the game.
It is 2024 so those old TOXIC designs need to go and this game needs to become a visual novel. Also i need to be able to do savage with trusts and they need to carry me to victory because i already pay a sub and I am not getting everything in the game without doing nothing!

P.S. Give Kaiten back or else....

Reposting this because it got lost in a sudden bout of weird fighting over nothing and I think it adds some context to the "action bloat" thing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So, my issue with kaiten post 6.0 was the frequency it had to be used in the opener and in burst windows. This part tends to be ignored, but with the addition of namikiri, you had to use kaiten 3 times in quick secession, while also using your other ogcds. This was a lot of button presses in those phases and it was much easier to flub vs the 5.x burst phases.

This is one of the reasons why I've consistently said namikiri was one of the worst things added to the job.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Reposting this because it got lost in a sudden bout of weird fighting over nothing and I think it adds some context to the "action bloat" thing.

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But doesn't that mean your issue was with Namikiri and not Kaiten?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

But doesn't that mean your issue was with Namikiri and not Kaiten?

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Yes, and I've also said that, and people tell me I'm wrong and namikiri was a great addition to the game even though its literally just old midare with an aoe.


One or the other needed to go, and they got rid of the old.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yes, and I've also said that, and people tell me I'm wrong and namikiri was a great addition to the game even though its literally just old midare with an aoe.


One or the other needed to go, and they got rid of the old.

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But why did one or the other need to go, specifically? What about simply changing one or the other, or changing how they interact? What if Kaiten simply didn't boost Namikiri? Or what if Kaiten just had something like a 10 second cooldown with 2 charges, or some other way to limit it in such a way that your issue was no longer a concern? Why is the guillotine the first and only solution when we see a negative interaction?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

But why did one or the other need to go, specifically? What about simply changing one or the other, or changing how they interact? What if Kaiten simply didn't boost Namikiri? Or what if Kaiten just had something like a 10 second cooldown with 2 charges, or some other way to limit it in such a way that your issue was no longer a concern? Why is the guillotine the first and only solution when we see a negative interaction?

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The same reason kaiten doesn't actually matter as a skill. They rolled it into the potency of the skills that actually used it and got rid of it. It's literally a flourish and thats it. It had no other purpose.


My issues with namikiri are that it was just old midare.




While I didn't hate kaiten in 5.x, it was.... kind of a pointless skill.



What you should be asking is for them to just add the animation to the casts, since thats pretty much what most people are complaining about. The missing animation. The kenki costs were negligible and anyone who played the job at any level higher than msq made sure to have enough. the nerf of cost from guren and senai was more egregious for kenki costs being made brain dead.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

What you should be asking is for them to just add the animation to the casts, since thats pretty much what most people are complaining about. The missing animation. The kenki costs were negligible and anyone who played the job at any level higher than msq made sure to have enough. the nerf of cost from guren and senai was more egregious for kenki costs being made brain dead.

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I suppose if you are ignoring the impact it had at creating flow within your Kenki guage, then yes, I suppose that is all that people are asking.

Again, this goes back to a point I made before. Removing it has made a noteworthy chunk of players very unhappy, yet the opposite side of players who aren't unhappy were indifferent to it prior. Your indifference to a skill existing or not existing is a terrible trade off for someone else's major disappointment. It's not even a discussion of "well now people who didn't like it are happy" because responses like yours are "meh" either way. So why not return it so that the players who did enjoy it get to have that since you clearly didn't care before it was removed?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I suppose if you are ignoring the impact it had at creating flow within your Kenki guage, then yes, I suppose that is all that people are asking.

Again, this goes back to a point I made before. Removing it has made a noteworthy chunk of players very unhappy, yet the opposite side of players who aren't unhappy were indifferent to it prior. Your indifference to a skill existing or not existing is a terrible trade off for someone else's major disappointment. It's not even a discussion of "well now people who didn't like it are happy" because responses like yours are "meh" either way. So why not return it so that the players who did enjoy it get to have that since you clearly didn't care before it was removed?

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I just want to thank you for bringing some much needed common sense into this discussion. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I suppose if you are ignoring the impact it had at creating flow within your Kenki guage, then yes, I suppose that is all that people are asking.

Again, this goes back to a point I made before. Removing it has made a noteworthy chunk of players very unhappy, yet the opposite side of players who aren't unhappy were indifferent to it prior. Your indifference to a skill existing or not existing is a terrible trade off for someone else's major disappointment. It's not even a discussion of "well now people who didn't like it are happy" because responses like yours are "meh" either way. So why not return it so that the players who did enjoy it get to have that since you clearly didn't care before it was removed?

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I think the number of people unhappy with its removal is far, far less than you actually think it is. Why do I think that? Because the number of people playing sam in savage didn't tank. It's still one of the most popular jobs.

Also, loud minorities are a thing, just need to look at politics for that to be obvious. I'm not saying you can't be upset that it's gone, and yes,your feedback is valid. But so is my opinion, and you can't tell me my opinion shouldn't matter because I don't feel as strongly about it as you do.

I was a SAM main since it's inception up until recently, due to disliking the 6.0 changes. I loved it at it's jankiest in 4.x. I loved it at it's best in 5.x. And I hate it now. (And I TRIED to like it. I did most of the 6.2 and 6.4 savage series on SAM, after having switched to DRG for 6.0. I ended up finishing 6.4 as MNK. And I haven't ever played MNK in Savage before that in any serious manner.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I think the number of people unhappy with its removal is far, far less than you actually think it is. Why do I think that? Because the number of people playing sam in savage didn't tank. It's still one of the most popular jobs.

Also, loud minorities are a thing, just need to look at politics for that to be obvious. I'm not saying you can't be upset that it's gone, and yes,your feedback is valid. But so is my opinion, and you can't tell me my opinion shouldn't matter because I don't feel as strongly about it as you do.

I was a SAM main since it's inception up until recently, due to disliking the 6.0 changes. I loved it at it's jankiest in 4.x. I loved it at it's best in 5.x. And I hate it now. (And I TRIED to like it. I did most of the 6.2 and 6.4 savage series on SAM, after having switched to DRG for 6.0. I ended up finishing 6.4 as MNK. And I haven't ever played MNK in Savage before that in any serious manner.

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People can continue to play the job even if they like it less. Misshapen Chair, for example, continues to bash the loss of Kaiten at every turn, but still plays Samurai. A change can be considered negative, yet not enough to push someone out of their favorite job.

But regardless, I stand by the point I made that you have failed to counter thus far: There are enough people who are unhappy with the skills removal, enough to develop a vocal minority--enough to be a discussion point in multiple video topics that were linked in the original post of this thread. No matter how little respect you have for those people complaining about the loss of Kaiten, what have we gained at the cost of their enjoyment? Your continued dislike of the job regardless of Kaiten existing or not? A large population of players who didn't care about Kaiten before, and don't really care now that it's gone? Great, what a wonderful reward. I'm glad all the people who either no longer play Samurai because of Kaiten, or simply don't like the job as much as they did got to lose something they cared about in exchange for general apathy.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

People can continue to play the job even if they like it less. Misshapen Chair, for example, continues to bash the loss of Kaiten at every turn, but still plays Samurai. A change can be considered negative, yet not enough to push someone out of their favorite job.

But regardless, I stand by the point I made that you have failed to counter thus far: There are enough people who are unhappy with the skills removal, enough to develop a vocal minority--enough to be a discussion point in multiple video topics that were linked in the original post of this thread. No matter how little respect you have for those people complaining about the loss of Kaiten, what have we gained at the cost of their enjoyment? Your continued dislike of the job regardless of Kaiten existing or not? A large population of players who didn't care about Kaiten before, and don't really care now that it's gone? Great, what a wonderful reward. I'm glad all the people who either no longer play Samurai because of Kaiten, or simply don't like the job as much as they did got to lose something they cared about in exchange for general apathy.

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The thing is, if people keep playing it, despite the thing that apparently gave them the most enjoyment being gone, that tells SE it wasn't that big of a deal.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The thing is, if people keep playing it, despite the thing that apparently gave them the most enjoyment being gone, that tells SE it wasn't that big of a deal.

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https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/upload...4-9faefa-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/upload...4-9faefa-1.jpg

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SE goes off of metrics. Clearly they see less complaints about Kaiten being gone vs number of people who quit playing the job because of the changes. I hate to bring Xeno up because I dispise him, but he complained about WAR and then switched to GNB for one of the ultimates lol. Then WAR got changed. I'm not saying that was the cause, but they clearly pay attention to stuff like that.


Your meme comic has its uses, but in this case, i think it is incorrect.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

All of this is also ignoring the fact that a chunk of MMO players are more conditioned to stick with something even if it's not immediately rewarding. It's that grind mindset and sunk cost fallacy that makes people stick with something longer than they would in a different type of game where they can just walk away. That mileage varies between people obviously but just because a lot of unhappy samurais are still sticking with the job isn't because it's not an issue it's just...like, y'know... grim hope

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If they were going to reverse their decision, that threshold has long come and gone.

All of this is also ignoring the fact that a chunk of MMO players are more conditioned to stick with something even if it's not immediately rewarding. It's that grind mindset and sunk cost fallacy that makes people stick with something longer than they would in a different type of game where they can just walk away. That mileage varies between people obviously but just because a lot of unhappy samurais are still sticking with the job isn't because it's not an issue it's just...like, y'know... grim hope

Bring back the dots that every class used to have. Also i would like to see caster bard again or the old synergy that jobs used to have for example dragoon with ranged dps and kaiten as well.