RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

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Originally Posted by Quyn

Pretty rich coming from a person who uses video game highscores to make themselves feel superior.

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Pretty rich coming from die hard SE fanboy who will rather see every class being neutered so its easier to play in dungeons.

Sorry i meant 'Glorious speaker on behalf of all sam players'

I have said this before and just repeat, even from casual players point of view 6.1 sam is trash. Get new gear? Enjoy same boring value crits. New patch this person pays sub money? Enjoy -1 skill to use for no reason with additional more shinten spam. And yes there are casual players who know what to press.

But its not about you, you are just a troll.

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Pretty sure plenty of folks have cited the JP forums as well regarding SAM once 6.1 was announced. It's been more than just na

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Kinda surprising radio silence even for jp community but w/e high horse is high.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Pretty rich coming from die hard SE fanboy who will rather see every class being neutered so its easier to play in dungeons.

Sorry i meant 'Glorious speaker on behalf of all sam players'

I have said this before and just repeat, even from casual players point of view 6.1 sam is trash. Get new gear? Enjoy same boring value crits. New patch this person pays sub money? Enjoy -1 skill to use for no reason with additional more shinten spam. And yes there are casual players who know what to press.

But its not about you, you are just a troll.



Kinda surprising radio silence even for jp community but w/e high horse is high.

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Your reading comprehension is so bloody poor, it explains a lot.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

Personally, I never felt Kaiten as very engaging and would rather have a more interesting skill instead .
I bolded that one, to stress that I don't have certainty this is actually going to happen. Going by SE's track record, it would make sense but obviously we would all have that next patch, rather than next expansion. That is the intend, I took from the longer interviews I mentioned.

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That's fine by me but why should I have to wait 2 years for my job to potentially not be kneecapped again. Going by SE's recent track record we're never going to get anything back.
They could have literally nothing at all and then rolled changes in 7.0 along with a new expac and none would be here complaining.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

I liked your post, as i almost completley agree with you. We shouldnt have to wait so long.
I never took my willingness, to wait on further sam design as an argument in favor of slow dev response time or poor communication. That is something people inserted into my intend and particular to how i feel about sam.
So ill repeatit for the third time : I think grievances are valid. I also think tone matters.

I particularly like the comments regarding where healers have been at for years, its a crying shame.

I would support fight design including more random damage and nechanics, to make healing more engaging, less scripted. But opinions are divided on that idea.

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I agree tone matters but we ask them since 2-3 years nicely and after this you don’t have the mental fortitude anymore. Like I can understand 1 year but not 5. I can tell my kids about this later how they ignored jobs, I gonna see if t already my first sentence when my son or grandkid ask me about healer “tommey they were fun around 20 years ago and I also remember when samurai had kaiten 15 years ago”.

Like I’m serious why do they wonder that the player base gets agitated and rude if they promise “we listen” but they don’t in anyway shape or form. Like I saw that with the endwalker job trailer. All look pretty decent and then come the healer and it’s down the drain. And also did physical ranges. And a lot of other things.

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Originally Posted by Derio

It could happen. I mean look at energy drain with SCH. However more than just NA has to complain about it for it to be reversed. Living dead and Blood weapon changes took years and over multiple expansions to get changed. Look at MCH, still havent fixed wildfire for it to be more ping friendly. I would be shocked in Kaiten was reverted in 6.2 or at all in the 6.X series

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The Japanese samurai player base did already commit verbal murder on them after they couldn’t read that people wanted samurai buffs instead of nerfs in the first raid tier this expansion because the job was weak as hell. I mean you have actual people gathering free data for every job and how much dmg they do in average and it the top end. But oh no it’s on a spooky

The skill gap got toned down for SAM. However the complain seem like the Sam is the new MNK aka the new melee reject child of SE.

Let it go already,

6.2 highlights were already introduced & there’s the conclusion for that.

Embrace it or take the “exit” door. WoW’s there waiting for since it fits most of you all.

Curious why is it so hard for folks to wrap the heads around the idea that SE just wanted to tone down Sam as a "busy" job? Taking out Kaiten, "removed bloat", allowed them to do their auto crit debacle, and more importantly simplified the guage use. Love it or hated it, Devs dont seem to be letting up on their venture to dumb down all jobs...

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Curious why is it so hard for folks to wrap the heads around the idea that SE just wanted to tone down Sam as a "busy" job? Taking out Kaiten, "removed bloat", allowed them to do their auto crit debacle, and more importantly simplified the guage use. Love it or hated it, Devs dont seem to be letting up on their venture to dumb down all jobs...

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I mean, that's fine. They can make the same mistakes WoW did and suffer the same consequences.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Curious why is it so hard for folks to wrap the heads around the idea that SE just wanted to tone down Sam as a "busy" job? Taking out Kaiten, "removed bloat", allowed them to do their auto crit debacle, and more importantly simplified the guage use. Love it or hated it, Devs dont seem to be letting up on their venture to dumb down all jobs...

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Because we debunked this where the amount of Shinten casts you use due to Kaiten removal is about 1 whole GCD less per minute aka " It's as Busy as it used to be ". Secondly, players enjoy skill-expression through complexity. Removal or dilution of it? equals reduced re-playability and lost gameplay of a Job that passionate players Love. Thirdly, the changes factually fixed nothing. Lastly, people can't wrap their heads around SE ignoring feedback that they themselves requested of us specifically from Samurai's to the Samurai changes and look surprised that we're voicing it out.

Though I agree, SE want's to " Cottonelle Ultra - ComfortCare " the normal Content and Gameplay for the already Pillowed players, to further entice them to not learn how to play Jobs, PvE basics or even reading tooltips. Just press your buttons and god forbid they forget to spam Shinten.


How I view players who think Samurai has unplayable button Bloat

• Omg! To many buttons!!
• This many abilities like gives me sooo much like anxiety right now
• I am allergic to buttons!!
• Totally triggering my button phobia right now...
• It's to much fun! what do I do with to much Fun to press!?

Celes, you need a vacation

PS: Still down for roulettes?

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Celes, you need a vacation

PS: Still down for roulettes?

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I'll pass. I am down for the current tier

• Asphodelos: The First Circle (Savage)
• Asphodelos: The Second Circle (Savage)
• Asphodelos: The Third Circle (Savage)
• Asphodelos: The Fourth Circle (Savage)

What say you :3

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

I mean, that requires the developers to not make flimsy ass explanations that can be picked apart quite literally within seconds by anyone with a modicum of experience. Or ones that are so out of touch that it beggars belief that it's actually an official statement.

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thats also true.. yeah. got nothing chief

https://media.giphy.com/media/G5X63GrrLjjVK/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

I'll pass. I am down for the current tier

• Asphodelos: The First Circle (Savage)
• Asphodelos: The Second Circle (Savage)
• Asphodelos: The Third Circle (Savage)
• Asphodelos: The Fourth Circle (Savage)

What say you :3

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Sigh….got me there..you’re good

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Originally Posted by Hezhi

That's fine by me but why should I have to wait 2 years for my job to potentially not be kneecapped again. Going by SE's recent track record we're never going to get anything back.
They could have literally nothing at all and then rolled changes in 7.0 along with a new expac and none would be here complaining.

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Yes, sadly right on the money with that point, I cannot argue at all.
I expect there is a reason for that but that doesn't make it acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

Yes, sadly right on the money with that point, I cannot argue at all.
I expect there is a reason for that but that doesn't make it acceptable.

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A lot of why people are mad is because of that. They put it out there, they told people to "please try it and leave feedback". We did that. 6.1 released... 4/12, and the live letter was... 8/12. So, exactly 4 months apart that they've had feedback from us. Not even counting the lead up to 6.1 with people telling them to not implement the changes due to how bad they felt to play (you could play the job without using kaiten before to get a feel of it.)

Over the span of that 4 months, nothing. Zip. Nada. Not once have they said "yeah, we hear you", which took me all of 3 seconds at most to type. Probably another minute to put it out there due to finishing this post. We've been provided reasons for the changes, but that was literally before the patch went in and it also came with "please try it". They've had time to gather data over that span of 4 months, and even had to panic buff pieces in the rotation because a meme rotation that almost ignored two parts of it was objectively competitive to the developer intended rotation. To me that screams "poorly thought out" changes. You can argue that they wanted us to test it, but they have access to the same damage logs that we the players do. If the devs are struggling to figure out things that people in the Balance can figure out, then they need to expand the team and internal testing.

People may think when we're talking about their changes, we're acting disrespectful. Thing is, it's a two way street. You don't treat someone like an idiot and expect them to help you later down the road. If SE gave us the same attention they did when black mage was having its pvp thing (literally changes were explained within a DAY), then people would be a bit less upset. Being ignored and lied to tend to make people angry, and if being nice doesn't get someone's attention, more crude responses are going to be the follow up.

Second post because 3000 characters per post, lolol.

That being said, if they wanted to remove kaiten, this whole situation could've been handled better, end of story. The timing for it is hilariously bad, the fact that they couldn't settle on a reason is another thing and are (maybe?) giving an actual reason on the 23rd is another. The fact that they had to spend time panic fixing their changes too, again, shows how ill thought out they were. And lastly, what problem they hoped to fix with the changes. None of us really see the problem because samurai wasn't overperforming in its role, nor was it massively underperforming. Its burst windows were high, but whether they were god-tier bursts or meh bursts, didn't change whether you could complete the encounter successfully. You could already see because of the backlash the reworks for ast and drg were pushed back to 7.0. And if they wanted to rework samurai (rather than kneecap the job now), they should've waited till 7.0. And as someone pointed out, I don't want to wait 2 years for potential fixes. We can look at the state of healers and see how long they've been waiting for something more than just 1-2-1-1-1-1-1 for however long till you have to refresh your dot. Doesn't instill much confidence.

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Originally Posted by Ruminous

Second post because 3000 characters per post, lolol.

That being said, if they wanted to remove kaiten, this whole situation could've been handled better, end of story. The timing for it is hilariously bad, the fact that they couldn't settle on a reason is another thing and are (maybe?) giving an actual reason on the 23rd is another. The fact that they had to spend time panic fixing their changes too, again, shows how ill thought out they were. And lastly, what problem they hoped to fix with the changes. None of us really see the problem because samurai wasn't overperforming in its role, nor was it massively underperforming. Its burst windows were high, but whether they were god-tier bursts or meh bursts, didn't change whether you could complete the encounter successfully. You could already see because of the backlash the reworks for ast and drg were pushed back to 7.0. And if they wanted to rework samurai (rather than kneecap the job now), they should've waited till 7.0. And as someone pointed out, I don't want to wait 2 years for potential fixes. We can look at the state of healers and see how long they've been waiting for something more than just 1-2-1-1-1-1-1 for however long till you have to refresh your dot. Doesn't instill much confidence.

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just want to say that you can edit the original post to bypass the limit

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Originally Posted by Ruminous

Second post because 3000 characters per post, lolol.

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just a side note : you can overcome that limit by posting your reply and then editing it, removing any restrictions.
/edit, ah ive been beat to it, hah.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

just a side note : you can overcome that limit by posting your reply and then editing it, removing any restrictions.
/edit, ah ive been beat to it, hah.

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Good to know. I tried just posting it under advanced and it still dinged me with 3k characters. Honestly, I don't see why there's a limit that small.

I find it crazy that a DPS loses 1 skill and everybody loses their minds. They even announced that Crit Buffs will increase the damage of guaranteed critical hits. Healers on average lose 4-5 abilities/gcds per expansion and become increasingly dull. Talk about a double standard.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

I find it crazy that a DPS loses 1 skill and everybody loses their minds. They even announced that Crit Buffs will increase the damage of guaranteed critical hits. Healers on average lose 4-5 abilities/gcds per expansion and become increasingly dull. Talk about a double standard.

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What's even crazier is how misinformed people feel compelled to give their uneducated opinion about a matter they clearly have no idea about.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

I find it crazy that a DPS loses 1 skill and everybody loses their minds. They even announced that Crit Buffs will increase the damage of guaranteed critical hits. Healers on average lose 4-5 abilities/gcds per expansion and become increasingly dull. Talk about a double standard.

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actually no. There have been a decent amount of threads about the current healer design and how go play ultimate is the worst thing to say.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

I find it crazy that a DPS loses 1 skill and everybody loses their minds. They even announced that Crit Buffs will increase the damage of guaranteed critical hits. Healers on average lose 4-5 abilities/gcds per expansion and become increasingly dull. Talk about a double standard.

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Great Logic. Let's apply your logic to removing 1 skill from other Jobs making them probably not lose their minds... lets see...

• Fell Cleave
• Trick Attack
• Glare
• Life Surge
• Verthunder
• Broil IV
• Atonement
• Souleater
• Fan Dance
• Dragon Kick
• Fire IV
• Bloodletter
• Mountain Buster
• Dosis III
• Fall Malefic
• Slice

I think I forgot MCH? but honestly Square doesn't care about MCH amirite? so! Do you think players would be happy if those skills were gone? poof! no explanation. But you know what? you're still performing well! in fact your potencies are added and transferred around. Better yet! More Auto-Crit! how about that?

Idc about the Nr1 Damage or what have you, it's Gameplay lost. I don't main healer to know their exact grievances? but Kaiten gone, Tenka Goken as a non-tab-targetable Fart Circle now, and Auto Crit adjustments are a lot more then just 1 button btw.


But if you want to talk about double standards?

• Healers posting on Samurai threads about Healer grievances
• Samurai's not posting about Samurai anything on Healer threads

At least not from me compared to you and a bunch of other healers...

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

What's even crazier is how misinformed people feel compelled to give their uneducated opinion about a matter they clearly have no idea about.

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Some flat insult with no foundation or explanation. Okay.

Here are just a few examples:

Bio
Bio II
Miasma
Miasma II (all lost and consolidated)
Shadowflare
Bane
Virus
Rouse
One Whole Fairy
Aero
Aero II
Aero III (all lost and consolidated)
Divine Seal
Fluid Aura
Cleric Stance (5% damage buff removed)
Combust
Combust II (all lost and consolidated)
Stella
Time Dilation
Sleeve Draw
Royal Road
Nocturnal Sect
Disable
All card effects reduced to generic damage buffs

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Healers, the reason why the Kaiten thing is getting so much attention is because it's the removal of something that actually matters a lot and will make it less fun to play

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Each of the abilities listed above made healers feel unique, fun and impactful, just like Kaiten.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Some flat insult with no foundation or explanation. Okay.

Here are just a few examples:

Bio
Bio II
Miasma
Miasma II (all lost and consolidated)
Shadowflare
Bane
Rouse
One Whole Fairy
Aero
Aero II
Aero III (all lost and consolidated)
Divine Seal
Fluid Aura
Cleric Stance (5% damage buff removed)
Combust
Combust II (all lost and consolidated)
Stella
Time Dilation
Sleeve Draw
Royal Road
Nocturnal Sect
All card effects reduced to generic damage buffs



Each of the abilities listed above made healers feel unique, fun and impactful, just like Kaiten.

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And? "We didn't complain enough and took all that SE shoved onto our faces because we are parasocially dependent on a bunch of "devs" that couldn't care less if we ceased existing, and so should you"? Is that the crux of your argument? Because if Yoshida's complacency as a has-been is all that takes to appease you, you are in good company with this award-winning "positive" community. Because I (and most other samurai players) cannot care less about you "defending" asinine "decisions" this "dev" team made because "but but others have it worse waaaaaahaaaa".

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

snip

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That sounds like another great Healer thread... that shouldn't be discussed in this Samurai thread...or the DPS section?

We're not here to have a flaccid contest on which genitals are being made the most flaccid, which chest is the flattest or which buns are the least... bunfull? (wait what?)

== Very Simple ==

• Samurai Issues
• Samurai Thread
• Samurai Changes
• Samurai requested Feedback
• Samurai Feedback Given
• Samurai Feedback ignored

== That's it ==

Very sorry ( not even being sarcastic here, I mean it ) on what healers have lost. I pointed that out a lot of times in other discussions and post to showcase the lack of care Square has yes. I just don't believe in pinning players against players.

Feedback was ignored, and a Job was made dull and boring and yes people are losing their minds or at the least plenty are having a lot less fun * unrelated to their DPS performance * just gameplay.

I am just getting so tired at the 30th idk what healer post this is at this point about Healers on Samurai threads =___=; to somehow discredit or devalue Samurai's negative changes? like I don't even know what the point of this is. They all been negative gameplay changes... like where are we going with this...

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

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Because the healer community has been vocal about their disappointment for years now. I understand your frustration and the lack of feedback or anything meaningful regarding the job you love. But we have never ever EVER gotten any sort of response. No acknowledgment. Zip. Nada. "Go Play Ultimate". The SAM community will continue to be vocal, as will the entire healer community. At this point however, I firmly believe that nothing will come of it.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

*snip*

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That's something at least I can agree on.

I went to the Healer Double Standard thread just now and glanced over it. I just do not believe in pinning players against players. As if my 8 months of playing somehow should equate to having enough knowledge to talk or have empathy for another Job or Role. The forum experience of my 1st few posts were met with healers shaming my feedback on the Samurai changes on Samurai threads? on the DPS subsection. Like really? That's my FFXIV intro to the forum...

Grievance Comparison's can go into the bin. Bad Changes are Bad changes, and Square just needs to do something about it, period. I have experienced plenty of years throughout MMORPG's with negative changes. A good reason why I am so vocal on the only Job I play, I do not want to see FFXIV getting worse. But I don't want it to be a " protest simulator ". PVE combat related? I play only Samurai, I know mostly only Samurai, I give feedback only on Samurai. That's it, and you'd be surprised that plenty of Forum accounts like mine are made purely cause of negative Samurai changes that equate more then just 1 button removal.

I and plenty others probably do not want to be shamed however...
into caring about something they do not have passion for nor another job or role they do not play...

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Because the healer community has been vocal about their disappointment for years now. I understand your frustration and the lack of feedback or anything meaningful regarding the job you love. But we have never ever EVER gotten any sort of response. No acknowledgment. Zip. Nada. "Go Play Ultimate". The SAM community will continue to be vocal, as will the entire healer community. At this point however, I firmly believe that nothing will come of it.

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I would like to point out to anyone who's been around for a long while, that a majority of the Samurai posters have never used the forums until 6.1 was announced. Even folks who have played since stormblood, like myself.

But we specifically came here in response to what we were told to do. So if you find our efforts pointless, you know who to blame for the sudden influx of activity all talking about one topic.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

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That's all reasonable.

The recent surge of SAM feedback on Kaiten encouraged Healers to post in DPS forums, mainly because the removal of meaningful skills is something we know better than anyone. My hope is that if enough attention is garnered around the removal of Kaiten, it will shed light on Healer feedback as well. (And I have no shame in saying that I would personally find it unfair if Kaiten is returned to SAM and no abilities were brought back to Healers).

The Healer Forum also feels like a "Forum to Ignore" marker has been placed on it...

Wow, Imagine my surprise to see this thread still going!

Fun fact: You can't sign into the forums after you haven't logged in to the game for 14+ days, and even after that it takes days to register that you did log in so you can post on the forums . . . amazing lol.

Anyway, there's plenty of folks here who have outlined why we're upset and CelestiCer and many others have done a great job surmising the issues we have with what happened.

I only signed in to say goodbye to some FC mates and virtual friends and my 6 month sub will soon be up but I figure a farewell post is in order here.

I feel what some folks here don't understand is this is a death by a thousand paper cuts scenario for XIV. It has happened with many other MMOs as well. As CelestiCer mentions, players like us who have been around the genre long enough know the signs to look out for when this is happening.

Some background on me: I jumped ship from WoW to FFXIV once ARR launched way back when (almost 9 years ago, I think?). I made as many friends as I could play XIV to get them on board with the experience. I've sang the praise of XIV and did everything I could to get people to get through all the trials that XIV throws our way (sign in debacles, account sign up difficulty, 'just get past ARR and you won't regret it!', you know all those things).

I have bought all the OSTs, spent plenty of money in the mogstation, I've leveled every combat job to max (sans drg). I was in love with the lore, the world and the game and yet here I am, leaving what I love behind.

There's plenty of players like myself, and I'm not trying to say anyones voice matters more than others but when you have someone like myself saying "nah . . . this just isn't for me any more", that's really bad. It's what happened to WoW and players hit this point at different times, but when it does and the devs clearly don't listen, you get WoW. You get what Blizzard as whole is now, a shell of its former self losing millions of players.

So why am I leaving if I love so much about the game?

Simple: It isn't fun to play any more.

It's not one move, or one job. It's overall the game isn't fun or satisfying to mechanically play. Having leveled all the combat jobs the one I found most interesting was Samurai. I've mained it since it came out and it was always fun.

Removing Kaiten, removing our cone AoE finisher, removing the chance of crits and flattening the damage . . . it's all the changes that make it feel worse.

And sadly, all the other jobs that were neutered over time just aren't fun either. Short of Ninja which is . . . fine . . . but it's very busy and quite frankly tiring to play for myself.

Additionally, even if I found something I loved, what's to say that won't also change for the worse? The direction of the game as a whole is just not really appealing.

Ultimately, if I'm not enjoying the actual gameplay then why bother paying to play?

To draw a bit of a parallel here; in the time I've been not playing XIV I got my XIV friends to play Monster Hunter: Rise. For those who haven't played MH, the game revolves around killing monsters to make gear + weapons to kill bigger monsters. Rinse and repeat. Simple and fun. The game has weapons that have been around in the franchise for a long time, and while the core part of the weapons remain the same, each entry in the series changes some fundamental part in how they play.

There's a weapon called the Long Sword in the game, I played it in MH: World and in Rise it was different. They abilities were there from world though to execute them they changed a bit. I didn't LOVE it, but it wasn't bad and still fun. Then along comes Rises' expansion: SunBreak. This adds a whole bunch of new moves to Long Sword that completely changes its play style.

And guess what? I freaking loved it. I learned the new play style and found it even more fun than the older style.

All the while I was thinking of XIV and how, once again, if they had just REVAMPED SAMURAI into a wholly different experience (if it was so damn problematic) in 7.0 or even 6.0 this wouldn't have been an issue.

Instead it just feels neutered, weak, and not fun to play.

I guess that's my long winded way of saying this decision isn't about a simple change, or one ability being removed. It's about the game stripping away the elements of fun that players have and not replacing it with other things players can have fun with. It's about how the experience is being watered down to a degree that's simply not going to retain players in the long run.

This is why I said it's a god damn shame, because what they've built is incredible and they only seem keen on destroying what they built.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading. For those who choose to stick around and fight for change, I wish you luck.

To those who stick around because they enjoy the game and heck even those who love and welcome the changes: I hope you get as much enjoyment as I did over the last 9 years out of it. I wish I could share in the same enjoyment but it just isn't there any more.

Take care forum folks.

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Originally Posted by Ruminous

Good to know. I tried just posting it under advanced and it still dinged me with 3k characters. Honestly, I don't see why there's a limit that small.

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Same reason why there's an idiotic daily post limit of 20 posts. They don't want people having real conversations on the forums. Its basically a feedback only type system to them....one they pretty much ignore lol.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Some flat insult with no foundation or explanation. Okay.

Here are just a few examples:

Bio
Bio II
Miasma
Miasma II (all lost and consolidated)
Shadowflare
Bane
Virus
Rouse
One Whole Fairy
Aero
Aero II
Aero III (all lost and consolidated)
Divine Seal
Fluid Aura
Cleric Stance (5% damage buff removed)
Combust
Combust II (all lost and consolidated)
Stella
Time Dilation
Sleeve Draw
Royal Road
Nocturnal Sect
Disable
All card effects reduced to generic damage buffs



Each of the abilities listed above made healers feel unique, fun and impactful, just like Kaiten.

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Feeling insulted won't make it true. I did not insult you.
Bitching about other skills being removed just shows you have no clue how the 6.1 changes affected samurai nor will validate your point in any way. Get back to your hole, where you belong or actually try to understand things a bit without dismissing others.

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Originally Posted by KurenXIV

Snip
Take care forum folks.

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And I can't get more behind such a post. I have seen many of my favourite classes being gutted, like Monk in Shb, or Bard in HW. Sam in Endwalker was far from perfect but it worked.
Now it doesn't, it feels awful, gutted and lost all its identity. It's a step too far, way too far. Never before have I stopped completely playing a job like this, and I've been around since the Beta.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

That's all reasonable.

The recent surge of SAM feedback on Kaiten encouraged Healers to post in DPS forums, mainly because the removal of meaningful skills is something we know better than anyone. My hope is that if enough attention is garnered around the removal of Kaiten, it will shed light on Healer feedback as well. (And I have no shame in saying that I would personally find it unfair if Kaiten is returned to SAM and no abilities were brought back to Healers).

The Healer Forum also feels like a "Forum to Ignore" marker has been placed on it...

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I thought you didn't understand how people could be so vocal about the removal of a skill? Or maybe you're just an hypocrite because you actually cared?

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

Feeling insulted won't make it true. I did not insult you.
Bitching about other skills being removed just shows you have no clue how the 6.1 changes affected samurai nor will validate your point in any way. Get back to your hole, where you belong or actually try to understand things a bit without dismissing others.

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Referring to my opinion as uneducated is an insult, and was clearly meant as an insult. Instructing me to go back to my hole is an additional insult. Me "bitching" about the numerous skills healers have lost is exactly what the entire Samurai community is doing currently. And before you throw out the "this is the DPS forum", every single Job is a DPS. A blue DPS. A green DPS. Every single one.

Samurai lost the ability Kaiten due to aspects of their burst damage being changed to guaranteed critical damage. Guaranteed critical damage has historically had poor synergy with Battle Litany, Chain Stratagem and other Crit percentage type buffs. This change created uproar from the Samurai community. So far, it appears Square's solution is to change how Crit buffs interact with guaranteed critical damage. Astrologian, White Mage and Scholar collectively have had a significant number of their actions removed. While incredibly unlikely, if Square actually addresses the removal of Kaiten, they should acknowledge the years worth of healer feedback as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Referring to my opinion as uneducated is an insult, and was clearly meant as an insult. Instructing me to go back to my hole is an additional insult. Me "bitching" about the numerous skills healers have lost is exactly what the entire Samurai community is doing currently. And before you throw out the "this is the DPS forum", every single Job is a DPS. A blue DPS. A green DPS. Every single one.

Samurai lost the ability Kaiten due to aspects of their burst damage being changed to guaranteed critical damage. Guaranteed critical damage has historically had poor synergy with Battle Litany, Chain Stratagem and other Crit percentage type buffs. This change created uproar from the Samurai community. So far, it appears Square's solution is to change how Crit buffs interact with guaranteed critical damage. Astrologian, White Mage and Sholar collectively have had a significant number of their actions removed. While incredibly unlikely, if Square actually addresses the removal of Kaiten, they should acknowledge the years worth of healer feedback as well.

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Wrong, Kaiten was initially removed to tackle action bloat. Which was invalid from the start since it did not impact APM and they were better skills to remove or merge.
If you feel insulted because I called you out on that post of yours, then it's on you. I'm stating facts. You're bitching about us being unsatisfied and then do a 180° when called out. Just swallow your pride and bring something interesting to the table.

You're also missing the Tenka goken change, which did not have potency adjustments to reflect the loss of Kaiten, nor the cone removal. You also failed to acknowledge how losing Kaiten affected Kenki management.

Don't feel insulted for being called out for your words. Unless you have issues with your own comments.
Pick a side, you're either against some skills being removed or not, whatever the role or job. But if so, be consistent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Referring to my opinion as uneducated is an insult, and was clearly meant as an insult. Instructing me to go back to my hole is an additional insult. Me "bitching" about the numerous skills healers have lost is exactly what the entire Samurai community is doing currently. And before you throw out the "this is the DPS forum", every single Job is a DPS. A blue DPS. A green DPS. Every single one.

Samurai lost the ability Kaiten due to aspects of their burst damage being changed to guaranteed critical damage. Guaranteed critical damage has historically had poor synergy with Battle Litany, Chain Stratagem and other Crit percentage type buffs. This change created uproar from the Samurai community. So far, it appears Square's solution is to change how Crit buffs interact with guaranteed critical damage. Astrologian, White Mage and Scholar collectively have had a significant number of their actions removed. While incredibly unlikely, if Square actually addresses the removal of Kaiten, they should acknowledge the years worth of healer feedback as well.

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They could have made the garbage auto crit change and kept kaiten in play. The backlash would have been way less if kaiten was still available and didn't turn us into shinten spammers.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

They could have made the garbage auto crit change and kept kaiten in play. The backlash would have been way less if kaiten was still available and didn't turn us into shinten spammers.

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Agreed, They could have kept the potencies a bit higher and make Kaiten trigger the auto crit. It would still have been a bad change but far less impacting.