It's time to kill the argument that DPS abilities keep healers from healing.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

This means nothing. It applies to any class on any game.

Yet you don't see neither tanks or dps reduced to 1 button spam.

At this point your just baiting.

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You're *

And those other classes only worry about one role, not two.

Bazinga.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

You're *

And those other classes only worry about one role, not two.

Bazinga.

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Tanks worry about enmity, mitigation and boss positioning. Just take away all the damage abilities, let them keep an aoe and their ranged attack. Add more mitigation CDs.

See? Fixed it for the people who can't play good with the same logic than healers.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

You're *

And those other classes only worry about one role, not two.

Bazinga.

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Tanks have to worry about proper self and party mitigation, boss placement, aggro for all mobs, etc on top of their own dps.

Dps have their own personal dps, proper combo execution, their own self and party mitigation (yes, dps have those too! Little known fact apparently) and positioning to worry about.

Damn that makes this game as a whole sound terrifying to the people you're claiming are the bread and butter of the healer crowd.

If I'm looking at it from your god awful deluded view, that looks like both tanks and dps are performing more than one role too, so they should be reduced to spamming 1 to cycle their combo like healers.

Tanks have to worry about proper self and party mitigation, boss placement, aggro for all mobs, etc on top of their own dps.

Dps have their own personal dps, proper combo execution, their own self and party mitigation (yes, dps have those too! Little known fact apparently) and positioning to worry about.

Healers worry about healing throughout the encounter while providing party protection. They also provide dps when possible and at their discretion while positioning to avoid mechanics.

There, fixed your summary of class responsibilities. Note that any class apart from dps classes have dps listed second and therefore less relevant. And each class has a kit specifically dedicated to its main role. Seems logical.

And yet, healer is the only class that should be equally dedicated to both according to the views in this forum? What if people don't want to do both? Or can't.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Tanks have to worry about proper self and party mitigation, boss placement, aggro for all mobs, etc on top of their own dps.

Dps have their own personal dps, proper combo execution, their own self and party mitigation (yes, dps have those too! Little known fact apparently) and positioning to worry about.

Healers worry about healing throughout the encounter while providing party protection. They also provide dps when possible and at their discretion while positioning to avoid mechanics.

There, fixed your summary of class responsibilities. Note that any class apart from dps classes have dps listed second and therefore less relevant. Seems logical.

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We accept your concession

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

We accept your concession

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You didn't read everything, Mr. Gale. That's an F for you.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

You didn't read everything, Mr. Gale. That's an F for you.

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Neither did you, apparently.

"Note that any class appart from dps have dps listed second and therefore less relevant."

Then why, oh, why do Tanks need that many damage options, why do they have rotations that involve more than 1 button? Just give them the same kit as healers do, after all DPS is secondary for a Tank right?

What if, in your own words, Tanks only want to "Tank" and not dps? They can hold enmity by spamming Unmend, Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Lightning Shot. In AoE they can hold enmity with their respective multitarget buttons. Tanks don't even need to damage a target to hold enmity. Just fix it so you can spam Provoke and Ultimatum. Who needs damage as a Tank as long as you have plentiful mitigation buttons.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Neither did you, apparently.

"Note that any class appart from dps have dps listed second and therefore less relevant."

Then why, oh, why do Tanks need that many damage options, why do they have rotations that involve more than 1 button? Just give them the same kit as healers do, after all DPS is secondary for a Tank right?

What if, in your own words, Tanks only want to "Tank" and not dps? They can hold enmity by spamming Unmend, Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Lightning Shot. In AoE they can hold enmity with their respective multitarget buttons. Tanks don't even need to damage a target to hold enmity. Just fix it so you can spam Provoke and Ultimatum. Who needs damage as a Tank as long as you have plentiful mitigation buttons.

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Simple, because tanks, just like dps, JUST LIKE HEALERS, need a variety of abilities to handle a variety of possibilities to reliably fulfill their MAIN role.

Also, you said same kit as healers get, by which I assume you mean their dps kit alone, but healers do have more than one dps ability. Something everyone seems to forget or just plain disregard. WHM has five dps abilities at 80 in fact...about half as many direct healing abilities they have. So they do already have a strong dps kit, but without complicated rotations so that if a healer does decide to assist it can be as low stress as possible, which strongly implies a lack of forcefulness on SE's part.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Simple, because tanks, just like dps, JUST LIKE HEALERS, need a variety of abilities to handle a variety of possibilities to reliably fulfill their main role.

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Your words not mine.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Also, you said same kit as healers get, by which I assume you mean their dps kit alone, but healers do have more than one dps ability. Something everyone seems to forget or just plain disregard. WHM has five dps abilities at 80 in fact...about half as many direct healing abilities they have.

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Yes. We have more than 1 DPS ability, that's true.

1 Spammable nuke. 1 Dot. 1 AoE Spammable. 1 oGCD ( Which in WHM case its also a heal. Assize every 45s). And 1 Movement tool. They are all context dependent of course, you won't use your AoE when there is only one target, you won't use your movement tool when there is no movement. You will use mostly your Nuke, upkeep your Dot and use your oGCD as much as you can. That usually means use your Nuke 12 times, refresh your dot and every so other cycle weave your oGCD in.

You're a Dark Knight main. How many abilities that are not exclusively "mitigation" or have "increased enmity" do you use regularly?

Why do you need Darkside? Why do GNB need the continuation combo? Why do WAR need Inner release or PLD their magic combo? Why do they need Fight or Flight, No mercy or Delirium? Those aren't tank buttons.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Your words not mine.

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Glad you agree with me, then. To each their main role without the pressure of performing other roles.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Glad you agree with me, then. To each their main role without the pressure of performing other roles.

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That's the point of this threat isn't it? To prove that adding more DPS abilities doesn't really pressure healers to DPS.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Do I really need to bore everyone with a list of those who would have trouble adding dps while healing?

Here goes: young players, new players, lifelong tank or dps players, bad/old/weak hardware users, elderly players, infirm or crippled players, special needs players, especially timid or ultra casual players, etc...

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Young? What’s the age rating on this game again?

New players? Everyone starts somewhere, doesn’t give them a pass to be as bad at level 80 as we all were at level 1

Lifelong player on a different role? And? They should still have a basic grasp of the core game concepts. Weak excuse.

Bad old hardware? No sympathy from me whatsoever. I progged Midas Savage on a little old ThinkPad with a £5 Wilko keyboard and a built in GT310M GPU getting under 30 FPS in a hotel room because my house was busy being on fire. I’ve raided alongside plenty of other people who have done just fine on similarly awful hardware. Turn the settings right down and it’s fine. Weak excuse.

Elderly? Eh I sympathise somewhat as I do appreciate how hard it can be to memorise fights (I use post it notes on the screen during prog). With some effort you can get around it and it certainly doesn’t prevent you from playing to a competent standard.

Disabled? Fair enough but again, where there’s will, there’s a way: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/how-a-dis...al-fantasy-14/

Special needs players is the fairest point you make. But I’ll add the caveat to this (and really everything above) is that players just have to say something at the start of a duty and the vast majority of players will bend over backwards to accommodate as long as they are aware of it.

The excuses go on.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Young? What’s the age rating on this game again?

New players? Everyone starts somewhere, doesn’t give them a pass to be as bad at level 80 as we all were at level 1

Lifelong player on a different role? And? They should still have a basic grasp of the core game concepts. Weak excuse.

Bad old hardware? No sympathy from me whatsoever. I progged Midas Savage on a little old ThinkPad with a £5 Wilko keyboard and a built in GT310M GPU getting under 30 FPS in a hotel room because my house was busy being on fire. I’ve raided alongside plenty of other people who have done just fine on similarly awful hardware. Turn the settings right down and it’s fine. Weak excuse.

Elderly? Eh I sympathise somewhat as I do appreciate how hard it can be to memorise fights (I use post it notes on the screen during prog). With some effort you can get around it and it certainly doesn’t prevent you from playing to a competent standard.

Disabled? Fair enough but again, where there’s will, there’s a way: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/how-a-dis...al-fantasy-14/

Special needs players is the fairest point you make. But I’ll add the caveat to this (and really everything above) is that players just have to say something at the start of a duty and the vast majority of players will bend over backwards to accommodate as long as they are aware of it.

The excuses go on.

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The fact that there are excuses is what matters.

And so healers, and ONLY healers, cannot have a skill cap above ankle height because someone, somewhere, somehow, might stand on the skill floor and get the vapors if they feel even the slightest urge to move upward in any way.

How pathetic ARE healer players in your mind?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Young? What’s the age rating on this game again?

New players? Everyone starts somewhere, doesn’t give them a pass to be as bad at level 80 as we all were at level 1

Lifelong player on a different role? And? They should still have a basic grasp of the core game concepts. Weak excuse.

Bad old hardware? No sympathy from me whatsoever. I progged Midas Savage on a little old ThinkPad with a £5 Wilko keyboard and a built in GT310M GPU getting under 30 FPS in a hotel room because my house was busy being on fire. I’ve raided alongside plenty of other people who have done just fine on similarly awful hardware. Turn the settings right down and it’s fine. Weak excuse.

Elderly? Eh I sympathise somewhat as I do appreciate how hard it can be to memorise fights (I use post it notes on the screen during prog). With some effort you can get around it and it certainly doesn’t prevent you from playing to a competent standard.

Disabled? Fair enough but again, where there’s will, there’s a way: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/how-a-dis...al-fantasy-14/

Special needs players is the fairest point you make. But I’ll add the caveat to this (and really everything above) is that players just have to say something at the start of a duty and the vast majority of players will bend over backwards to accommodate as long as they are aware of it.

The excuses go on.

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I don't understand how these excuses would apply exclusively for healers. They apply to everyone that plays the game. Why should "healer" be the role for people that have any sort of difficulties playing? Why commend that to a whole role? We have a 3+ jobs in each role now, Tanks get variety, Dps get variety, why do Healers have to be stuck with the same DPS kit to each other.

Sage was a great opportunity to give "more experienced" players more to juggle between Healing and Damaging and yet we got a DPS "rotation" with less involvement than Scholar's- Just Spam Dosis, guys, I swear it's more fun than spamming Broil.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The fact that there are excuses is what matters.

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I'm 7 hours late to work because there was a lot of traffic and an old lady was walking across the road really slow.

I'm sure excuses really matter.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

That's the point of this threat isn't it? To prove that adding more DPS abilities doesn't really pressure healers to DPS.

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No, it seems to me that the OP is saying that healers should be expected to be responsible by adding dps because the line between throwing dps and throwing heals should be very clear to all players and the game should further acknowledge this by making dps more required. Which is why my core argument is that SE cannot assume that is the case for all players.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

And so healers, and ONLY healers, cannot have a skill cap above ankle height because someone, somewhere, somehow, might stand on the skill floor and get the vapors if they feel even the slightest urge to move upward in any way.

How pathetic ARE healer players in your mind?

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We're not talking about a skill cap for healing though, are we. But rather, their other supposed role. Their second enforced responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

No, it seems to me that the OP is saying that dps should be expected to be responsible by adding dps because the line between throwing dps and throwing heals should be very clear to all players and the game should further acknowledge this by making dps more required. Which is why my core argument is that SE cannot assume that is the case for all players.

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Making "DPS more required" and having more DPS buttons is not the same, I'd say.

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Originally Posted by Truen

No, it's important to close by stating that the decision to take away fun and meaningful gameplay options, because some players simply aren't very good, is asinine and I hope that those who work on healer development will realize this and add some flair and variety back into our jobs!

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The way I understand this is, OP is critisizing Healer design and blames the dumbing down of Healer's DPS kit onto the devs attempts to cater to the "players that simply aren't very good".

So in essence, the Devs focusing on accessibility as a standard for Healer DPS design kits.

If in your eyes DPS for healers is optional, then why would a player in need of accessiblity for the Healing role care about the accessibility of the DPS side of their kit.

Allow me to extend an olive branch:

Honestly I get it.

There is the expectation that healers should balance dealing damage and keeping their party members alive. No other job has to juggle targets around this much- You switch from Enemy to Ally constantly, AST being probably the worst offender. On controller, AST target switching to throw cards is almost painful. So in order to make this process accessible, the Devs decided to make the juggling of the two very simple.

Each further change of this juggling only serves to make it more accessible:

-Removal of actions while maximizing potencies. You press less variety of buttons, meaning you have to keep track of less things to contribute the same.

-Shorter cast times to ensure ease of weaving without punishing the healer damage. Devs want you to DPS, they made it easier now to both cast your Nuke while weaving in healing.

-Giving Tanks more self sustain tools to make sure they don't die to auto-attacks, giving healers more time to adjust their juggling. It also eases the pressure to keep an eye on your tank's HP.


But the thing is, not all healers are AST.

WHM and SCH primarily have so many automatic heals and mitigations that they can easily spend their time focused on Damage. Why, then do they have basically the same DPS kit as AST? Why does Sage, the new "technical" healer for "advanced" players that "focuses" on DPS have essentially the same buttons as WHM and SCH?

AST complaints revolve around the card system being simplified or losing its flavour.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Allow me to extend an olive branch:

Honestly I get it.

There is the expectation that healers should balance dealing damage and keeping their party members alive. No other job has to juggle targets around this much- You switch from Enemy to Ally constantly, AST being probably the worst offender. On controller, AST target switching to throw cards is almost painful. So in order to make this process accessible, the Devs decided to make the juggling of the two very simple.

Each further change of this juggling only serves to make it more accessible:

-Removal of actions while maximizing potencies. You press less variety of buttons, meaning you have to keep track of less things to contribute the same.

-Shorter cast times to ensure ease of weaving without punishing the healer damage. Devs want you to DPS, they made it easier now to both cast your Nuke while weaving in healing.

-Giving Tanks more self sustain tools to make sure they don't die to auto-attacks, giving healers more time to adjust their juggling. It also eases the pressure to keep an eye on your tank's HP.


But the thing is, not all healers are AST.

WHM and SCH primarily have so many automatic heals and mitigations that they can easily spend their time focused on Damage. Why, then do they have basically the same DPS kit as AST? Why does Sage, the new "technical" healer for "advanced" players that "focuses" on DPS have essentially the same buttons as WHM and SCH?

AST complaints revolve around the card system being simplified or losing its flavour.

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Because if AST is meta in order for other things to be competitive to other players they must be just as simple in my opinion

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

And so healers, and ONLY healers, cannot have a skill cap above ankle height because someone, somewhere, somehow, might stand on the skill floor and get the vapors if they feel even the slightest urge to move upward in any way.

How pathetic ARE healer players in your mind?

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Apparently, healers are drooling on their own keyboards and jump at the slightest sound. It's honestly quite remarkable just how far they'll reach to defend this simplicity for healers specifically. Tanks and DPS can have fun doing secondary aspects of their job, which is a rather generous claim for tanks as they spend 95% of their time DPSing. Healers though? Nope. They can't have more than two DPS buttons or they'll be literally shaking.

I do find it amusing how they completely ignored my response about healer relevancy and how Warrior can solo dungeons. Couldn't have anything to do with it entirely undermining the role and showing just how irrelevant non-DPSing healers are in this game.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Because if AST is meta in order for other things to be competitive to other players they must be just as simple in my opinion

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But that's the thing! AST is NOT simple.

Sure it's "simpler" now, but it's still the healer with the highest APM, despite having a simple damage rotation of 1 nuke and 1 dot. AST has a side system that warrants its DPS kit being more simplistic- (Even if they could stand to have maybe 1 more offensive ability- Though the new Minor Arcana will somewhat fix that.)

AST is in a good place regarding the amount of non-healing abilities it has. It's busy enough, it's effective and has some variety to its downtime. Its numbers might be overtuned but that isn't a mechanical problem.

WHM, SCH and SGE are extremely barebones compared to AST. They have a rather sparce set of abilities to fill their respective healing downtimes and a lot of abilities that only make that healing downtime more prevalent.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

We're not talking about a skill cap for healing though, are we. But rather, their other supposed role. Their second enforced responsibility.

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Healing less and gaining more downtime IS the skill cap for healing. It always has been, and it always will be. That's just how a role with a defined hard limit on its primary responsibility works. As you consume more calories than you burn, thermodynamics doesn't "force" you to gain weight. It's just how it works. Geometry doesn't "force" squares to have four sides. That's just how it works. Healing someone with full HP is a waste of time. That's how it works. The encounter finishes when the DPS, not healers, are done with their primary job. Sticking your fingers in your ears and screeching "HEALERS SHOULD HEAL ONLY!" is reality denial. It's not how games with combat systems work.

Ironically, if someone only wants to heal and not do dps, they should probably play a dps. Yup, the very thing they keep telling healers who want to deal damage to go and do.

Since healing requirements are so low in this game, a "pure healing" Sylphie isn't actually very useful. You can say "I want to heal and help my team!" but you're not really helping. You're covering some almost irrelevant heal basics and nothing else in a game focused on damage. Overhealing is useless, it does nothing. The healing job in ff14 is better suited to someone who can cover that basic while contributing dps. They're just more valuable to the team.

On an easy dps, like DNC, all you have to care about is dealing damage. Just hit the shiny buttons, put Dance partner on and you'll be useful. So if you really only want to do one thing and have no other responsibility while still supporting your team, roll a dps.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Because if AST is meta in order for other things to be competitive to other players they must be just as simple in my opinion

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I don't understand this argument.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that since AST is meta the other healers should have just as simple a dps kit when they don't have to juggle as much?

Why? SCH and WHM do not have cards to buff other players. Only SCH has a buff similar to Divination (Chain Strat) and it does not require a build up like AST does prior to 6.0/

AST come 6.0 is getting Minor Arcana back along with Astrodyne (and a new seals system) to make it busy. It deserves to have 1 button nuke and dot.

SCH, SGE and especially WHM do not.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

AST come 6.0 is getting Minor Arcana back along with Astrodyne (and a new seals system) to make it busy. It deserves to have 1 button nuke and dot.

SCH, SGE and especially WHM do not.

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On that point, let's remember that jobs are not meant to be equally busy, that is a preference choice. WAR is not as busy as GNB. DRG is not as busy as SAM, not to mention RPR who seems to be very busy.

Some jobs are meant to be more relaxed, whichever jobs those end up being.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

On that point, let's remember that jobs are not meant to be equally busy, that is a preference choice. WAR is not as busy as GNB. DRG is not as busy as SAM, not to mention RPR who seems to be very busy.

Some jobs are meant to be more relaxed, whichever jobs those end up being.

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Well no, ofc not. But you can have a relatively low APM count and still hit a healthy variety of buttons. BLM is a prime example: It's slow but relatively varied. The most "spam" you do is the 3 Fire IV in a row, twice per cycle.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The idea that not doing dps as a healer is considered lazy is bonkers. It relates directly to the "go go" mentality that many hate.

It's not like I play this game thinking that I want to hurry up and finish so I don't have to play this game anymore. Throw some dots and hit some glares, but a healer should never feel like they're irrelevant by focusing on just healing.

There's no rush!

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The idea that not doing any summons or Aetherflow actions as a Summoner is considered lazy is bonkers. It relates directly to the "go go" mentality that many hate.

It's not like I play this game thinking that I want to hurry up and finish so I don't have to play this game anymore. Throw some Bios and hit some Ruins, but a Summoner should never feel like they're irrelevant by focusing on just dots and Ruin.

There's no rush!

Does anyone else ever notice that the entire forum seems to argue with just one person at a time? It's clear the majority opinion here, but people seem to think otherwise.

Apparently, all Healers are idiots with near ptsd like attention span who can't handle more than 2 apm?

Is this really what the community thinks we are?

If someone played enough instances and invested hundreds of hours into a healing job such that they've reached level 80 and also got the many single-player job quests (which includes many single-player combat instances) done... and yet the idea of an optional DPS combo that's slightly more than just spamming a constant attack with an occasional dot horrifies them, then who exactly is more at fault here: The game for encouraging attacks during excessive amounts of downtime, or the player who refuses to even try to optimize more after playing up to 80 levels of gameplay?

I'm also no longer going to respond to dishonest arguments stating that healers apparently want DPS combos that involve 20 or more buttons; that's frankly an insulting strawman that isn't even worth engaging, because nobody here is asking for that, and it's outright rude to keep bringing that up as a disingenuous way to end conversation early.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Does anyone else ever notice that the entire forum seems to argue with just one person at a time? It's clear the majority opinion here, but people seem to think otherwise.

Apparently, all Healers are idiots with near ptsd like attention span who can't handle more than 2 apm?

Is this really what the community thinks we are?

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Hey man, I had an absolute panic attack when I almost wiped the dungeon with my Physick spam. It got so bad I had to log off for the night and go into my panic room.

:P

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

It deserves to have 1 button nuke and dot.

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Absolutely not, it needs at least one more button to break up the monotony for both single target and aoe

I agree it needs the fewest dps actions of the healers, but 2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 is miserable between cards

You get one card every 30s for 40 levels, cards that as they stand have no depth at all to them since 3/6% is not just pitifully weak but also unnoticable without a parser if you receive them, then 1 more every 60 that you dump immediately once you hit 70 instead of thinking how to use since lord is more damage and lady is too weak

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Does anyone else ever notice that the entire forum seems to argue with just one person at a time? It's clear the majority opinion here, but people seem to think otherwise.

Apparently, all Healers are idiots with near ptsd like attention span who can't handle more than 2 apm?

Is this really what the community thinks we are?

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To be fair, that's how I started.

In 2.1

before I sat down and taught myself to really play.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

If someone played enough instances and invested hundreds of hours into a healing job such that they've reached level 80 and also got the many single-player job quests (which includes many single-player combat instances) done... and yet the idea of an optional DPS combo that's slightly more than just spamming a constant attack with an occasional dot horrifies them, then who exactly is more at fault here: The game for encouraging attacks during excessive amounts of downtime, or the player who refuses to even try to optimize more after playing up to 80 levels of gameplay?

I'm also no longer going to respond to dishonest arguments stating that healers apparently want DPS combos that involve 20 or more buttons; that's frankly an insulting strawman that isn't even worth engaging, because nobody here is asking for that, and it's outright rude to keep bringing that up as a disingenuous way to end conversation early.

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I mean, if you convert Samurai’s oGCD kit and Iaijutsu into healing actions (iaijutsu would become Mix/Ninjutsu for heals, essentially) and just slapped a green icon on it if would function perfectly fine as a healer in this game. Hell it’d probably be straight up stronger than the current kits in the right hands. But I get your point. I don’t think it’s a heavy ask to at least try to inject some active resource manipulation into the downtime of healers. Cards can satisfy this, Aetherflow halfway does, Lilies need attention and possibly a secondary system layered on top.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I really don't get this argument though.

You could apply it to tanks, if you're holding agro, who cares what else you are doing right? Your job description doesn't cover dealing damage, that's for the DPS.

It could even be twisted as far as the dps themselves? Just want to sit there and press nothing but heavy thrust? Sure why not, it's not causing a wipe now is it? Why do I need to press my combos or use my cooldowns? The content doesn't require it. All it's doing is making the run slower. Much much slower

The fact of the matter is that you can heal most casual content with a CPM of around 6 assuming both you and your co healer are pulling your weight.

That's 1 button press every 10 seconds.

That's undeniably lazy. Sorry but it just is.

As for being forced to use it well. That's hyperbole. Plain and simple. Maintain your dot in casual content and very few people will care if you barely do much more than that.

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Tanks don't have to choose between dealing damage and playing their role. They gain aggro by dealing damage and mitigation can all be used for free (except for DRK but you can choose other tanks, unlike healers). But, if tank players do feel unhappy doing dps they are also free to voice their thoughts. For healers every gcd is a choice between dps and healing. And if you make the wrong choice it can wipe the group. No other role has to make this choice

As for being forced, a whm can deal almost as much as a dps in dungeon mobs. If you know that, how can you not use it? It would feel incredibly guilty knowing how much you could do and not using it. It would be griefing. That's what I mean by forced, even if one is sitting behind you telling you how to play. When I do casual content I hardly even get to heal, it's just dps dps dps, because anything else is slowing down the kill. I don't want to play green dps I want to heal. If we didn't have dps, even if it means only pressing a button every 10 seconds, that would be more fun

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Originally Posted by lisaa

Tanks don't have to choose between dealing damage and playing their role. They gain aggro by dealing damage and mitigation can all be used for free (except for DRK but you can choose other tanks, unlike healers). But, if tank players do feel unhappy doing dps they are also free to voice their thoughts. For healers every gcd is a choice between dps and healing. And if you make the wrong choice it can wipe the group. No other role has to make this choice

As for being forced, a whm can deal almost as much as a dps in dungeon mobs. If you know that, how can you not use it? It would feel incredibly guilty knowing how much you could do and not using it. It would be griefing. That's what I mean by forced, even if one is sitting behind you telling you how to play. When I do casual content I hardly even get to heal, it's just dps dps dps, because anything else is slowing down the kill. I don't want to play green dps I want to heal. If we didn't have dps, even if it means only pressing a button every 10 seconds, that would be more fun

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Unfortunately, that's just not how 14 works. That's something that the veterans have processed and moved on from. We know it will never be that way.

God I'm so tired of explaining this over and over. Someone else do it.... please?

I can't take beating my head against this wall anymore.

At the risk prolonging the bait session…

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Originally Posted by lisaa

As for being forced, a whm can deal almost as much as a dps in dungeon mobs. If you know that, how can you not use it? It would feel incredibly guilty knowing how much you could do and not using it. It would be griefing. That's what I mean by forced, even if one is sitting behind you telling you how to play. When I do casual content I hardly even get to heal, it's just dps dps dps, because anything else is slowing down the kill. I don't want to play green dps I want to heal. If we didn't have dps, even if it means only pressing a button every 10 seconds, that would be more fun

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ToS protects those healers from harassment should the DF folks blatantly pressures them to DPS. I’m pretty sure you already know that. Majority wins in casual encounters. If they want to minimize that there are plenty of ways to improve their enjoyment with something like PF, running with friends, etc.

If one can’t help but feel bad, then… perhaps take a break from FFXIV? Why would you force yourself to adapt into something you know you won’t enjoy? That’s like disrespecting yourself more than those you are paired with.

As for green dps stuff.. honestly, just do yourself a favor and read the older posts (You don’t even need toI believe, at least if that level of gameplay of yours is not a fabrication :rolleyes:)

You know your definition of fun. So do us, while it also happen to be different.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Absolutely not, it needs at least one more button to break up the monotony for both single target and aoe

I agree it needs the fewest dps actions of the healers, but 2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 is miserable between cards

You get one card every 30s for 40 levels, cards that as they stand have no depth at all to them since 3/6% is not just pitifully weak but also unnoticable without a parser if you receive them, then 1 more every 60 that you dump immediately once you hit 70 instead of thinking how to use since lord is more damage and lady is too weak

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I mean I personally want AST to have another dps button... or two (two dots anyone?). I don't mind it along with what I am already getting in 6.0. But for the purpose of my argument, yes it does, for right now anyway.

Believe me, I am just as bored as my fellow WHM and SCH mains right now. Cards, as you've said, technically aren't enough. And I doubt Astrodyne is going to fix this, but... I'm giving the thing the benefic (ha) of doubt right now. Cause I already immediately hate it.