The New Sage Icon, Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's not throwing a fit, though. It's expressing concern by weighing in on an issue.

Throwing a fit would be an angry rant and attacking other posters - which I have most certainly not done.

Though the simply fact that so many in this thread seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to accuse others of lacking empathy as well as imply that they're bad people for not jumping with joy each and every time a company does something like this says it all, really.

For starters, it reveals that the self-same individuals aren't actually all that virtuous after all - but as we've seen with certain companies and famous individuals of late, the louder one is about their supposed tolerance and virtue the more skeletons they have hidden within their closet.

That yet another 'empathy' comment was made right as I typed this up is but the icing on the cake. Wondrous timing, really.

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Wish I could like comments more than once sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

It was just a simple, nice gesture to something that was highly requested on the JP forums. Nothing more and nothing less.

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And that explains why none of us saw it. Only the JP had an issue, lol.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I am curious where this outrage for its old version even came from. I saw 0 of it on the forums, on reddit, or any social media.

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You bring up a good point. I haven't seen any requests to change the job icon anywhere. I wonder who/where Yoshi-P is getting these player demands from.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

I know what deer hide looks like. I know hide can be repaired if it is "fresh" enough.

I'm pointing the obvious, you're the one trying to tell other people that holes in a hide aren't actual holes, but splotches?

I guess the black/white highlights around your so-called splotches are totally not an indication that there is a perception of depth/3d. Look at how the top is brighter while the bottom is darker. Do you know how light works?

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The mental gymnastics by some on this forum should be the real Olympic event of the year.

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Originally Posted by IsisaTyatu

I don't understand why so many people in this thread seem to lack empathy and common sense. It's such a small change to be somehow upset over.

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Because sadly there are people who treat anything that doesn't effect them as "unneeded" or "unnecessary". These people are also the ones who are screaming the loudest about the change.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm really failing to understand your point here. Expressing a concern as to how this might affect other areas of the expansion design is just "imaging" scenarios? With the dearth of MMOs as things stand, he is perfectly within his right to be concerned that yet another one might end up becoming a poor fit for his tastes.

By the by, his point is not "gross" - it is exactly the sort of scepticism these companies should be met with. If you are sentimentally attached to SE, so be it, but not all of us are.

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He can be as concerned as he likes or feels a need to be, but then why bother pretending it's coming from an "unbothered", "indifferent" point of view? Just say you're bothered.

I've been critical up and down this forum about SE and their choices so I am not 'sentimentally attached' to them, no, this is just getting blown way out of proportion. They made a simple UI change at the request of Japanese players, the sky isn't falling.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

He can be as concerned as he likes or feels a need to be, but then why bother pretending it's coming from an "unbothered", "indifferent" point of view? Just say you're bothered.

I've been critical up and down this forum about SE and their choices so I am not 'sentimentally attached' to them, no, this is just getting blown way out of proportion. They made a simple UI change at the request of Japanese players, the sky isn't falling.

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Yeah, none of us care in particular about the icon. It is about the reasoning behind it and how it may be affecting other elements of future game design.

Beyond that...

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anyone who is indifferent or refusing to clap and cheer

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...enlighten me as to where he said he is indifferent? Given that there is an "or" in there...

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Originally Posted by Yencat

He can be as concerned as he likes or feels a need to be, but then why bother pretending it's coming from an "unbothered", "indifferent" point of view? Just say you're bothered.

I've been critical up and down this forum about SE and their choices so I am not 'sentimentally attached' to them, no, this is just getting blown way out of proportion. They made a simple UI change at the request of Japanese players, the sky isn't falling.

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I think it should be pretty obvious that I'm not bothered by the change itself so much as the personal attacks and attempt at character assassination of those who dare to hold a different opinion about the event itself.

If not for that, I'd have said my piece and moved on from the thread. I don't back down when people seek to bully others, though. Especially when it's hidden behind a dangerous and predatory desire to be seen as virtuous.

It's also possible to be indifferent on an issue and also believe that it's a pointless, unnecessary affair.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yeah, none of us care in particular about the icon. It is about the reasoning behind it and how it may be affecting other elements of future game design.

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Nothing this miniscule ever effects the game design, it hasn't since 2.0's launch.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it should be pretty obvious that I'm not bothered by the change itself so much as the personal attacks and attempt at character assassination of those who dare to hold a different opinion about the event itself.

If not for that, I'd have said my piece and moved on from the thread. I don't back down when people seek to bully others, though. Especially when it's hidden behind a dangerous and predatory desire to be seen as virtuous.

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Couldn't it be said that some are trying to "character assassinate" SE over this, by applying their own thoughts on the intentions towards SE?


And some of us only respond in kind. People attempt to "character assassinate" me all the time, yet here I am. The only people who dislike me (as far as I know anyway) are those who butt heads with me over silly issues.

And as someone who spent most of their school years as the focus of bullies in multiple states, I think I can say that no one in this thread is being bullied. That's laughable.

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Originally Posted by Lufir

You bring up a good point. I haven't seen any requests to change the job icon anywhere. I wonder who/where Yoshi-P is getting these player demands from.

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It's this thread btw.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And as someone who spent most of their school years as the focus of bullies in multiple states, I think I can say that no one in this thread is being bullied. That's laughable.

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I would think someone who was bullied would know that everyone experiences bullying in different ways. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t see or feel it. There are people in this thread bashing on others for their opinions, saying they have no empathy, saying they’re rude and gross etc. To me, that *is* bullying.

Irregardless on topic of this, Again, like someone else pointed out. How strange it is that something that’s been in the game forever like the LTW icon people never had an issue with(despite it being much more triggering, even asked a friend who has it to weigh in), but somehow there’s a problem with the sage icon? It really is something.

There, all nouliths are equal. None of this weird fascination with one noulith at the bottom with a hole haha.
https://i.imgur.com/tkgjeTX.png

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yeah, none of us care in particular about the icon. It is about the reasoning behind it and how it may be affecting other elements of future game design.

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CLEARLY some people very much care about the icon, we're on page 26 and we're apparently not on a slippery slope anymore but in Action Park about to break every bone in our bodies going down it because they made a UI change and who knows what they'll do next? Listen to more player requests? Perish the thought...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it should be pretty obvious that I'm not bothered by the change itself so much as the personal attacks and attempt at character assassination of those who dare to hold a different opinion about the event itself.

If not for that, I'd have said my piece and moved on from the thread. I don't back down when people seek to bully others, though. Especially when it's hidden behind a dangerous and predatory desire to be seen as virtuous.

It's also possible to be indifferent on an issue and also believe that it's a pointless, unnecessary affair.

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No it's not at all obvious that you're not bothered, but if you say so? Great?

I don't know if you're implying I'm bullying you or attempting to character assassinate you or different people, I can assure you I'm not.

Dragging multiple years worth of sexual assault allegations at a different company into this is still gross, though.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I would think someone who was bullied would know that everyone experiences bullying in different ways. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t see or feel it. There are people in this thread bashing on others for their opinions, saying they have no empathy, saying they’re rude and gross etc. To me, that *is* bullying.

Irregardless on topic of this, Again, like someone else pointed out. How strange it is that something that’s been in the game forever like the LTW icon people never had an issue with(despite it being much more triggering, even asked a friend who has it to weigh in), but somehow there’s a problem with the sage icon? It really is something.

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It might be that people can easily tell the LTW icon is a hide, and nobody can tell what the Sage icon is because there is no real world counterpart like that (outside of maybe needles). Part of the phobia is fearing what could be lurking in the holes after all.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It might be that people can easily tell the LTW icon is a hide, and nobody can tell what the Sage icon is because there is no real world counterpart like that (outside of maybe needles). Part of the phobia is fearing what could be lurking in the holes after all.

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I asked someone who suffers from it and they told me it’s 100 times worse so…i’m more willing to take their word for it considering they actually suffer from the damn thing.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I asked someone who suffers from it and they told me it’s 100 times worse so…i’m more willing to take their word for it considering they actually suffer from the damn thing.

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Question, did you tell him it was a hide before or after?

Interesting attitude. But then does that mean we're starting to open up to talking about other types of phobias present in the game? Because they exist and they are there.

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Originally Posted by Zequi

Interesting attitude. But then does that mean we're starting to open up to talking about other types of phobias present in the game? Because they exist and they are there.

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Go ahead, no one is stopping you?

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Originally Posted by Zequi

Interesting attitude. But then does that mean we're starting to open up to talking about other types of phobias present in the game? Because they exist and they are there.

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I am for it. Have already mentioned that the sage's weapon have an eerily medical type syringe/surgical toolaspect to them which kinda creeps me out due to my own experiences. Although at the same time it makes me somewhat fascinated in the class cause it allows me confront it on a different level versus the endless appointments I am subjected to every month.

So a bad feeling trying to become good by facing my fears which developed cause of my medical history.

I don't think it's really all that important. We didn't have the 'original' design in the first place, so to me this is a non issue.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

And one can make the same statement about the thread originating the request. So there we have it.

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I read through that thread a bit thanks to my browser auto translating things. It's basically the same as this one but with less anarchy. Some were for it. Some were against it. Some didn't care one way or another, and others were a bit confused as to why it was necessary. Again, like this one. The general consensus seemed to be as follows (paraphrasing of course)..."If they want to change it that's their call. We get it, since it's something that would be seen constantly on the player's screen". If it wasn't overall in favor of the idea I doubt they would have acted on it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I asked someone who suffers from it and they told me it’s 100 times worse so…i’m more willing to take their word for it considering they actually suffer from the damn thing.

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It probably affects different people differently. But I don't know if there was ever a thread about the leatherworker icon being gross that got over 150 likes.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6OX0AMp1Mh.png

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By the gods, yes.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Go ahead, no one is stopping you?

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I kinda see a problem, though. If the devs decide they don't want to make changes based on other phobias, would that be considered favoritism or outright bigotry?

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Originally Posted by hydralus

I kinda see a problem, though. If the devs decide they don't want to make changes based on other phobias, would that be considered favoritism or outright bigotry?

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This was a simple edit for something not in game yet. I think there is a bit of a difference, but...

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

This was a simple edit for something not in game yet. I think there is a bit of a difference, but...

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So as long as something's easy to do then it's fine? Screw those other people with phobias, they're too difficult to cater to?

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Originally Posted by hydralus

I kinda see a problem, though. If the devs decide they don't want to make changes based on other phobias, would that be considered favoritism or outright bigotry?

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:confused:

He asked if "we're" open to talk about other phobias, he's free to talk about and ask for whatever he likes and the devs are free to act on it. Or not.

And you're free to consider that favoritism or bigotry, or not.

And so on and so forth.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

So as long as something's easy to do then it's fine? Screw those other people with phobias, they're too difficult to cater to?

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No one said that, but some things are easy fixes, while others arent.


Plus, some things are just intrinsic to world design, like oceans, water, etc.

I have arachnophobia, and hate winged insects also to the point of a phobia. I flinch at house flies. The insects in game don't bother me. That's just me tho.

I also have an intense fear of falling. The first trash pull of the bunker freaked me out the first time it dropped me. I was fine after the first run though.

When I was younger I suffered severe to crippling anxiety. And still have some effects, yet I've never had issues being a tank in mmos, and yet there are people who suffer "tanxiety" that I will never understand. But I dont make fun of them or complain in those threads.


And people are free to make requests, any time, here on the forums. It doesn't mean every one will be worked, but they are free to ask.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I don't think it's really all that important. We didn't have the 'original' design in the first place, so to me this is a non issue.

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I think it's great Square Enix took the input of players into consideration with the latest icon design.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And people are free to make requests, any time, here on the forums. It doesn't mean every one will be worked, but they are free to ask.

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This topic has turned into a complete mess and waste of space, but I'll just jump in on this because why not. The funny point about this whole "debate" is that the people complaining about the change and how SE is bending the knee to any and all change requests/complaints are often the first to jump into the "what you'd like to see changed" topics (and any topic where it's even just vaguely connected) and make their own requests. They love to shout from the rooftops about how the game is in a terrible state and will only be fixed if their specific, desired changes are made and their requests are listened to, but now here they are in a topic complaining because... SE listened to request for change. The obvious, blatant hypocrisy of it really is actually making for a pretty decent comedy bit.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

This topic has turned into a complete mess and waste of space, but I'll just jump in on this because why not. The funny point about this whole "debate" is that the people complaining about the change and how SE is bending the knee to any and all change requests/complaints are often the first to jump into the "what you'd like to see changed" topics (and any topic where it's even just vaguely connected) and make their own requests. They love to shout from the rooftops about how the game is in a terrible state and will only be fixed if their specific, desired changes are made and their requests are listened to, but now here they are in a topic complaining because... SE listened to request for change. The obvious, blatant hypocrisy of it really is actually making for a pretty decent comedy bit.

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Yeah, this is basically what's happening. lol Meanwhile there's myself who also makes a fair number of requests pretty regularly simply not giving a hoot one way or another on this one. Was the change needed? Maybe not, no. But they did it anyway. That's...basically the end of that. Life goes on. The game did not catch on fire just because they changed how a symbol looked. Think we need to add this to the "Many Deaths of FF XIV" thread wherever that thing is.

*sighs* this forum I swear sometimes I feel I lose brain cells coming here.


Changing an Icon is easy to do, and takes very little time. Why would you not do it? The icon is not a story device so it is simple change. Unlike story elements that can be designed to make you feel that way. Changing a icon to be better for some people is not some "sign" of bad things coming.


Some things never change with mmo players lol.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No one said that, but some things are easy fixes, while others arent.


Plus, some things are just intrinsic to world design, like oceans, water, etc.

I have arachnophobia, and hate winged insects also to the point of a phobia. I flinch at house flies. The insects in game don't bother me. That's just me tho.


And people are free to make requests, any time, here on the forums. It doesn't mean every one will be worked, but they are free to ask.

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Yes I realize it's an easy fix. That's why it comes across as shallow and self-serving. To me, it's legitimately worse than if they simply didn't do anything at all. They've said with this action, "We will try to make people with phobias comfortable", but we all know it's an empty gesture meant to get brownie points and seem like a caring company (well okay maybe not 'all', seems a lot of people are pretty naive). Will it actually stop people from getting their trypophobia triggered when playing the game? Nope, there's way, way more instances in-game that they absolutely will not remove so it's not even helping the people it's supposed to help. Like if they removed one mention of rape and sexual abuse in Stormblood's story but kept the other instances in, that'd seem super weird and useless to you, wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, this is basically what's happening. lol Meanwhile there's myself who also makes a fair number of requests pretty regularly simply not giving a hoot one way or another on this one. Was the change needed? Maybe not, no. But they did it anyway. That's...basically the end of that. Life goes on. The game did not catch on fire just because they changed how a symbol looked. Think we need to add this to the "Many Deaths of FF XIV" thread wherever that thing is.

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Here you go.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...al-Fantasy-XIV

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Here you go.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...al-Fantasy-XIV

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Thanks! :p You are doing the Twelve's work.

That particular icon didn't trigger my trypophobia, but I can easily see how it could in others. I'm affected by the default monk chakra gauge so I have to keep that on Simple. But SE got feedback that something was really bothering many in the playerbase, found they were at a point where they could make a change, and did so. And the new icon retains much of the what old had so it's not a complete redesign. I think their changing things was very considerate and is one of those ways that they show they really do care about us.

And for those naysayers saying that they shouldn't have changed something just because of "disgust", trypophobia when it's set off can range from mild disgust or aversion to nausea and panic attacks.

SE has received feedback on other things that were negatively affecting players to that extent before and made small, simple, helpful changes. This is no different.

I personally think that if they would just cover up the holes in the original one, it would look way better than the new one.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

So as long as something's easy to do then it's fine? Screw those other people with phobias, they're too difficult to cater to?

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I think it's more an issue of balancing impact on people. The edit of a job icon for an unreleased job has a very low impact on (no impact for most of us in fact) the majority compared to the impact of not changing on the minority that suffer trypophobia to that degree. Similar with adjusting the graphics on some effects in Tower. The change is barely noticeable for me but before the change it was forcing people to stat out of the duty for the sake of their health.

On the other hand, removing or changing mobs, scenery or even a dungeon has a much bigger impact both on dev time and on player experience.

If a change would have more negative impact that positive, that's good reason to not go ahead. But if a change has no real negative impact, like the Icon change, why not do it?

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

*sighs* this forum I swear sometimes I feel I lose brain cells coming here.

Some things never change with mmo players lol.

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You just might... Why I rarely engage in discussions on most of these platforms. Although, it does make for an interesting read during my morning coffee. It's almost like reading the old National Enquirer.