Fake FCs' Housing Abuse

To add to what I said earlier :

Cerberus which is one of the most populated world on Chaos, has 510 plots open for both fc/personal
Ragnarok has 390
Phantom has a whooping 4111 plots open
and last but no least, Sagittarius has 5288 plots open.

Light is the same thing, if not with even more plots open.

There is no housing crisis on EU, keep that stuff and all those restrictions for NA if they have to take place.

As for NA

Dynamis has :

Halicarnassus : 4072 plots open.
Seraph : 3366 plots open.
Maduin : 4398 plots open.
Marilith : 4449 plots open.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Another option would be to charge FCs rent in the form of Company Credits.

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This is really not as hard as you think it is. First off, they have it set so that the more people online, the fewer credits you earn, and this is deliberate so that large FCs don't rocket past small ones. Secondly, just as now there is a market for magitek repair kits, all this will do is create a market for militia chokers, or whatever the easiest thing to craft for the most credits is.

Any measure of resource requirement that isn't an overly taxing punishment on a small FC can be easily overcome by a single rich player.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The only thing that needs to be done is to prevent users from buying a free company house if they have a character in another free company on the same server, and that free company has an estate.

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This is, and has always been, one of those solutions that sounds good but doesn't work on its face, only hurting random innocent players. It doesn't stop the current loophole, because blocking buying doesn't mean anything when you're bouncing houses from one account to another immediately - all it would do is add the need for the buyer to leave after transfer. Blocking transfers is opening a huge can of worms with undesirable knock-on effects for regular FCs (lmao your FC house has been randomly destroyed because your leader idled out and the FC passed to an officer who has alts in housed FCs).

But also, just in general, my third-string alt that's a low-rank member in an RP guild that has a small house should have no bearing on what I do with my main; and creating a restriction that is tantamount to 'all your alts have to leave their FCs and then rejoin after you buy' is just adding a layer of pointless tedium. For similar reasons, you can't just check permissions to see if they're 'really using it', since you can just derank them temporarily. There is no satisfactory way to solve this purely programmatically that both cannot be abused and does not hurt innocent regular players, and it's just not that big of a problem to be worth that.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

This is really not as hard as you think it is. First off, they have it set so that the more people online, the fewer credits you earn, and this is deliberate so that large FCs don't rocket past small ones. Secondly, just as now there is a market for magitek repair kits, all this will do is create a market for militia chokers, or whatever the easiest thing to craft for the most credits is.

Any measure of resource requirement that isn't an overly taxing punishment on a small FC can be easily overcome by a single rich player.

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I understand that a single rich player has the potential to overcome this fairly easily.

The question would be if it's worth it to them. Why are they buying the additional houses in the first place?

If they are just looking for more houses to own and decorate, then nothing is going to stop them. They will always find a way around it.

If the goal is additional workshop access for gil farming, though, does it become worth it if almost all the gil you're making off the workshop has to be put back into generating the FC credits needed to pay the rent? Militia chokers are nice for getting to level 6 quickly. They're one heck of a pain in the neck for generating company credits in large amounts.

Note I didn't even suggest an amount of company credits that I feel reasonable for rent. I don't have access to data that SE would have on how many company credits are generated by typical FCs. All I have to go by would be the amounts generated by the FCs I belong to.

The one this character belongs to is a good size though not what most would consider large. One of my alts had inherited it when the original FC leaders took an extended break from the game for RL reasons. I gave it to a friend who did want to run a FC after the former leaders came back and no longer wanted it. The FC had very little in the way of company credits when I gave it to him because my alt had been the only active member for about 6 months. I was actually using the Militia Chokers to get credits to buy Ceruleum tanks at times. But it's almost 4 years later now and the FC has close to 70 million company credits available.

I have a small FC I run with an alt on Coeurl that's a sort of "haven" for friends who have alts they occasionally want to play in a quiet atmosphere away from the activity and noise in their main characters' FCs. Since activity isn't constant, there's only 2.8 million credits built up after 18 months (but the workshop is running with max level subs so it's going through Ceruleum tanks fairly fast).

Then there's the FC another alt belongs to on Marilith. It has 5 unique members currently active on a weekly basis and 6 that play intermittently as RL allows. It's up to 3.5 million credits already in the not quite 4 months since Marilith opened.

If the latter is typical for the small FCs, then charging 250k company credits a month for rent wouldn't be a stretch for most though it would be a stretch for my Coeurl alt FC where it's just my alt plus a few others that log in about once a month or so. But it could also be argued that my alt FC doesn't really need a house because of the limited activity.

Now look at a rent charge of 250k credits from the perspective of someone who is getting multiple FC houses to workshop farm. The FC master characters aren't active characters generating company credits. There are no other active members generating company credits. The credits they're currently using to run their subs come mainly from items purchased for Expert Deliveries. With the rent, they'd have to buy that much more. That starts taking a huge chunk out of the profits they're making from the workshops.

Is it still worth the effort for a minimal return? Sure, they could invite players to join their FCs to generate the needed credits but it's a risk as the players they are likely to get would eventually leave to join active FCs or stop playing so there goes their credit source until more players are recruited.

There are no perfect solutions but I think a company credit based rent system for FC houses would at least reduce the number of players who are obtaining multiple FC houses for personal use.

Except its just not necessary, there is housing for everyone, and this just adds more annoyances for both "real" fcs as you call them, and "fake fcs", lets just stop trying to take things away from people yes ?

If people want houses on NA, Dynamis is wide open.

EU has 0 issues with housing, even on the oldest world which is Ragnarok.

Stop creating a problem where there isnt one.

This constant obsession with taking things away from people that have worked for what they have is actually becoming gross at this point, or this whole "yes lets add more chores to keeping a house, so people HAVE to do things just in order to keep their houses, that sure is very fun !"

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It isnt a loophole, its actually intended in the TOS, good try buddy, as per usual making a fool of yourself.

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Again, here's the TOS:

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2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

This constant obsession with taking things away from people that have worked for what they have is actually becoming gross at this point, or this whole "yes lets add more chores to keeping a house, so people HAVE to do things just in order to keep their houses, that sure is very fun !"

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Exploiting loopholes to have things one shouldn't have in the first place isn't "taking away", it's rectifying an abuse. Are you arguing that _UNNAMED should've kept their Omega Ultimate weapons? After all, they put in more "work" than playing the equivalent of an idle clicker game.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Again, here's the TOS:





Exploiting loopholes to have things one shouldn't have in the first place isn't "taking away", it's rectifying an abuse. Are you arguing that _UNNAMED should've kept their Omega Ultimate weapons? After all, they put in more "work" than playing the equivalent of an idle clicker game.

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Apples and oranges. Unnamed used 3rd party software and got busted. You can get a house very easily in the game. Being able to get a house even after buying a house is not an exploit or a bug.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Except its just not necessary, there is housing for everyone, and this just adds more annoyances for both "real" fcs as you call them, and "fake fcs", lets just stop trying to take things away from people yes ?

If people want houses on NA, Dynamis is wide open.

EU has 0 issues with housing, even on the oldest world which is Ragnarok.

Stop creating a problem where there isnt one.

This constant obsession with taking things away from people that have worked for what they have is actually becoming gross at this point, or this whole "yes lets add more chores to keeping a house, so people HAVE to do things just in order to keep their houses, that sure is very fun !"

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Except it was a problem just 5 months ago for players on NA. Can we be certain it won't be a problem again once 7.0 is released?

Personally I hope not. I would love for SE to finally be on top of the problem. I also have my doubts that is the case.

Just as we thought that house availability had been solved back in 4.2 for everyone but Balmung, there is always the chance we'll end up in the same situation again. An abundance of houses available just for it all to disappear almost overnight as new players decided to start the game or as existing players continue to acquire multiple houses.

Look ahead to 7.0. They've been teasing the possibility of a new starting point for new characters since Shadowbringers. With the Hydaelyn-Zodiark arc ended and the current story arc not expected to go past 6.5, 7.0 seems like the perfect opportunity to finally implement it. That may drawn in those players that have hesitated to play because the need to go though 80-90 levels of content to catch up to the rest of the player base seemed daunting. Other changes, such as the graphics update, may start attracting even more.

The goal is not to take things away from those who have already earned them. The goal is to discourage players from acquiring more of a limited resource for personal use when there are other players who cannot get that resource due to the limited supply being consumed. Keep in mind it would only affect FC houses and the vast majority of FCs would have no problems keeping on top of the credits needed through normal game play.

Keep in mind such changes are only necessary if SE cannot come up with a better solution for meeting demand and fails to be able to continue to add new housing servers to host new wards so we end up back where things were at Shadowbringers launch. If SE can do that and give all interested players equal opportunity at owning multiple houses without having to compete against other players for a small chance at getting one, then all of these suggestions become unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Again, here's the TOS:





Exploiting loopholes to have things one shouldn't have in the first place isn't "taking away", it's rectifying an abuse. Are you arguing that _UNNAMED should've kept their Omega Ultimate weapons? After all, they put in more "work" than playing the equivalent of an idle clicker game.

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Man you remind me of Albangbus1. Once he got his House after his so highly sought after Lottery he went silent. So whats your story?

Did somebody got a House you wanted?
Or outbid you on the black market?
Put somebody an less desirable Housing Skin into your view?
Did somebody bought into your own ward buyouts?
Did somebody stole your sand moulds in the kindergarten?
Or are you just an unhappy person who cannot bear the joy of others and therefore also wants to punish them with his resentment?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except it was a problem just 5 months ago for players on NA. Can we be certain it won't be a problem again once 7.0 is released?

Personally I hope not. I would love for SE to finally be on top of the problem. I also have my doubts that is the case.

Just as we thought that house availability had been solved back in 4.2 for everyone but Balmung, there is always the chance we'll end up in the same situation again. An abundance of houses available just for it all to disappear almost overnight as new players decided to start the game or as existing players continue to acquire multiple houses.

Look ahead to 7.0. They've been teasing the possibility of a new starting point for new characters since Shadowbringers. With the Hydaelyn-Zodiark arc ended and the current story arc not expected to go past 6.5, 7.0 seems like the perfect opportunity to finally implement it. That may drawn in those players that have hesitated to play because the need to go though 80-90 levels of content to catch up to the rest of the player base seemed daunting. Other changes, such as the graphics update, may start attracting even more.

The goal is not to take things away from those who have already earned them. The goal is to discourage players from acquiring more of a limited resource for personal use when there are other players who cannot get that resource due to the limited supply being consumed. Keep in mind it would only affect FC houses and the vast majority of FCs would have no problems keeping on top of the credits needed through normal game play.

Keep in mind such changes are only necessary if SE cannot come up with a better solution for meeting demand and fails to be able to continue to add new housing servers to host new wards so we end up back where things were at Shadowbringers launch. If SE can do that and give all interested players equal opportunity at owning multiple houses without having to compete against other players for a small chance at getting one, then all of these suggestions become unnecessary.

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You want rent system fine tell SE to drop the Demo system no double dipping and double screwing over players. One or the other dont like it dont make suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I understand that a single rich player has the potential to overcome this fairly easily.

The question would be if it's worth it to them. Why are they buying the additional houses in the first place?

If they are just looking for more houses to own and decorate, then nothing is going to stop them. They will always find a way around it.

If the goal is additional workshop access for gil farming, though, does it become worth it if almost all the gil you're making off the workshop has to be put back into generating the FC credits needed to pay the rent? Militia chokers are nice for getting to level 6 quickly. They're one heck of a pain in the neck for generating company credits in large amounts.
[...]
Now look at a rent charge of 250k credits from the perspective of someone who is getting multiple FC houses to workshop farm. The FC master characters aren't active characters generating company credits. There are no other active members generating company credits. The credits they're currently using to run their subs come mainly from items purchased for Expert Deliveries. With the rent, they'd have to buy that much more. That starts taking a huge chunk out of the profits they're making from the workshops.

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All of this just to make submarine farming harder? Lmao. You wrote an entire novel describing how you want all FCs including endgame-focused groups to adopt your playstyle of leveling alts and doing other useless low level content to get credits or else they lose their house, instead taking 2 seconds to come up with something simpler like increasing the credit cost of Ceruleum Tanks which would only affect submarine missions.

It's especially odd to see you coming up with these ideas for taking people's houses away and calling it problematic that I made a free company with my husband and bought a house no one else bid on in a ward that is still dead, when you're also considering multi-owning yourself. Seems hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If those who say they want a house refuse to claim one from what's available, then there's no point in arguing against the players who own multiple houses because they're purchasing what no one else would.

I get sorely tempted to start up new FCs on Marilith to get a few more houses.
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If others don't show up to start claiming what's available, there's really no reason not to buy multiple houses. Someone needs to make those mostly empty wards look inhabited.

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Enough with trying to take things away. Nerf subs and airships put them at the Grand Company it's not that hard. Take away the profit and it will solve most of the issues with ward ownership. This obsession with trying to take things away from people who follow the intent and the rules on here gets pretty old.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Savage, extremes, unreal, criterion, S ranks and ultimate don't give company credits, do they? So one would be forced into casual content they wouldn't otherwise do. It's a silly idea Square would never implement, because they know not everyone spends their time doing fates and dungeons lol.

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So you don't understand what generates company credits. Got it. Needless to say, they aren't solely generated by "low level casual content".

Inviting New Members
Crafting anything High Quality
Triggering Gatherer's Boon
Undertaking supply and provisioning missions with your Grand Company
Completing FATEs
Completing Duties
Completing Quests
Earning Achievements

Fairly certain you manage to do at least some of those things especially considering you had enough gil to buy a large house for you and your husband. So no, you don't have to suffer through brain dead activity to generate company credits. Have you even looked at the number of company credits your FC has available?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's especially odd to see you coming up with these ideas for taking people's houses away and calling it problematic that I made a free company with my husband and bought a house no one else bid on in a ward that is still dead, when you're also considering multi-owning yourself. Seems hypocritical.

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The difference between you and me is that I think about it but don't do it because I understand the impact it can have. The temptation has been there a long time but I never act on it.

You went ahead and did it even though you could have added your husband as a tenant to a private house. As for the ward still being dead, of course it is. The ward was just added in 6.3. But how many large houses remain in the FC wards, or in any of the wards for that matter, on Odin?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Enough with trying to take things away. Nerf subs and airships put them at the Grand Company it's not that hard. Take away the profit and it will solve most of the issues with ward ownership. This obsession with trying to take things away from people who follow the intent and the rules on here gets pretty old.

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I agree. Some of us have been suggesting that SE move the workshops out of housing and to the Grand Companies for years.

If the economic advantages attached to house ownership were removed and placed elsewhere, it would ease the housing situation while players would still have access to both gardens and workshops.

Like most rent proposals, I don't see where this would do anything notable to the people you're trying to hit as opposed to dinging casual/low-activity/low-knowledge FCs. Getting to expert delivery from nothing with a carry is a one-time cost of about 2 hours each, and all of them will already have credit buffers from the initial rank-up. If you're running really light with low-level leads, you *might* need to add some time for leveling to 50. QVs go infinite easily and there's a wealth of cheap turn-in sources. You might create a little mild inconvenience for the really huge holders, but these are also people with near-infinite time to spend on the problem, so.. probably not.

My free company is small is currently 7rs old. At its peak we had 2 million fc credits. Not every fc is a credit generator or desires to be one. Especially hard.to make them when only have two members out of 20 left actually playing. Done more then my share of recruiting and met with little success. I have no wish to lose my fc house cause someone badly thought out idea.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Man you remind me of Albangbus1. Once he got his House after his so highly sought after Lottery he went silent. So whats your story?

Did somebody got a House you wanted?
Or outbid you on the black market?
Put somebody an less desirable Housing Skin into your view?
Did somebody bought into your own ward buyouts?
Did somebody stole your sand moulds in the kindergarten?
Or are you just an unhappy person who cannot bear the joy of others and therefore also wants to punish them with his resentment?

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No to all. Heck, lottery didn't even exist back then. However,

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Or outbid you on the black market?

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This makes it sound like RMT is a bigger problem than I initially assumed.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

This obsession with trying to take things away from people who follow the intent and the rules on here gets pretty old.

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There's no reason to take away anything from anyone who followed the rules. That's a problem for those who don't e.g. the _UNAMED group. But that risk was always inherent and known.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So you don't understand what generates company credits. Got it. Needless to say, they aren't solely generated by "low level casual content".

Inviting New Members
Crafting anything High Quality
Triggering Gatherer's Boon
Undertaking supply and provisioning missions with your Grand Company
Completing FATEs
Completing Duties
Completing Quests
Earning Achievements

Fairly certain you manage to do at least some of those things especially considering you had enough gil to buy a large house for you and your husband. So no, you don't have to suffer through brain dead activity to generate company credits.

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You'd be wrong. Unreal is a duty done only twice a week and that's how I made most of my money. Endgame duties have weekly lockouts, surely you are aware people don't farm them like leveling content. And fates and quests? Who even does those anymore but the people who are leveling? That leaves running dungeons for gear turn-ins (which you wanted to nerf) and gathering/crafting in mass quantities, which are casual content not everyone wants to do forever just for their fc house. You're so out of touch with how other people play the game.

I like how you ignored the fact that increasing the credit cost of ceruleum tanks would have the same effect of making it more expensive to run subs but without taking anyone's house away. Someone is feeling spiteful today.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You went ahead and did it even though you could have added your husband as a tenant to a private house. As for the ward still being dead, of course it is. The ward was just added in 6.3. But how many large houses remain in the FC wards, or in any of the wards for that matter, on Odin?

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What part of 1 private + 1 fc house per server don't you understand? You're suggesting we remain without an fc and all its perks so other people can create a new fc and buy the large house later which makes zero sense. Guess what, those other people of the future also have the option to remain without an fc or join someone else's. They can join mine if they like. "If they like" being the key words here and not as part of a monthly invite campaign you suggest to be one of the ways I can maintain my fc house. :D

The house was paid the moment you paid to bid on it, and you claimed it at the placard, be it in the old placard system, or the lottery system.

This is not a rent system, it's a buyout system, let's stop with these stupid ideas with trying to make it hard for anyone and everyone to maintain a house, thank you.

Out of posts for the day but

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Originally Posted by PaalHenrik

If FC's have to pay rent, so should personal owners.

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Agree.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

The house was paid the moment you paid to bid on it, and you claimed it at the placard, be it in the old placard system, or the lottery system.

This is not a rent system, it's a buyout system, let's stop with these stupid ideas with trying to make it hard for anyone and everyone to maintain a house, thank you.

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If FC's have to pay rent, so should personal owners.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Enough with trying to take things away. Nerf subs and airships

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I just want to take a moment to appreciate this post. Usually hypocrisy and irony aren't one sentence right after the other.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I agree. Some of us have been suggesting that SE move the workshops out of housing and to the Grand Companies for years.

If the economic advantages attached to house ownership were removed and placed elsewhere, it would ease the housing situation while players would still have access to both gardens and workshops.

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They can leave them in FC's but simply expand access and give those without a FC a venue to access the content by placing them in Grand Companies as well. It would give everyone access to something that pretty much only the FC leadership and a select few are allowed to profit by.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You went ahead and did it even though you could have added your husband as a tenant to a private house. As for the ward still being dead, of course it is. The ward was just added in 6.3. But how many large houses remain in the FC wards, or in any of the wards for that matter, on Odin?

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Yes she could share with her husband but you can't add alts to a private house. It's why some of us will create a small FC to give them access to the house. It's another issue that has been festering since SE said it would be looking into it back in 4.2. It's ridiculous that after all this time this still isn't a thing especially after successfully preventing alts from buying their own personal housing with the new rules back then. Houses should have account wide access regardless of server or DC in my view for alts on the same service account.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes she could share with her husband but you can't add alts to a private house. It's why some of us will create a small FC to give them access to the house. It's another issue that has been festering since SE said it would be looking into it back in 4.2. It's ridiculous that after all this time this still isn't a thing especially after successfully preventing alts from buying their own personal housing with the new rules back then. Houses should have account wide access regardless of server or DC in my view for alts on the same service account.

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I agree the alt situation is very much a problem. I don't understand what SE feels is being accomplished by not allowing alts to be on the Friends list, or even better yet being added automatically on creation.

I know some think that it's to encourage players to purchase additional retainers for extra storage/marketboard listings but the FC solution makes that unnecessary. If that was truly SE's goal, they would limit us to one character per world.

Others think it's to hinder RMT but that likewise is a joke excuse since RMT is buying multiple accounts making the restriction useless in that case.

Let's hope that this might end up something corrected in 7.0's release. I don't really expect it to happen but it would be a welcome surprise.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes she could share with her husband but you can't add alts to a private house. It's why some of us will create a small FC to give them access to the house.

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Can't share housing with alts.
Can't craft special housing skins in the work station.
Can't try out the submarine system.
Can't obtain unique minions/materials from missions.
Can't make private fc rooms.

If the answer to this is "apply to someone else's fc that has a house, follow their rules and hope they give you access to these things", that same option is also available to those who want access to my fc mansion.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

They can leave them in FC's but simply expand access and give those without a FC a venue to access the content by placing them in Grand Companies as well. It would give everyone access to something that pretty much only the FC leadership and a select few are allowed to profit by.



Yes she could share with her husband but you can't add alts to a private house. It's why some of us will create a small FC to give them access to the house. It's another issue that has been festering since SE said it would be looking into it back in 4.2. It's ridiculous that after all this time this still isn't a thing especially after successfully preventing alts from buying their own personal housing with the new rules back then. Houses should have account wide access regardless of server or DC in my view for alts on the same service account.

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There are 2 types of fc leadership. Those who horde everything to themselves and those who don't want to deal with drama and fighting.

Let's start with forcing FCs to bid in the wards reserved for them.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

There are 2 types of fc leadership. Those who horde everything to themselves and those who don't want to deal with drama and fighting.

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Selfishly hoarding resources is not the same thing as keeping control of those resources. Any gil my FC earns from subs is put straight into the FC coffer and used to buy things to benefit FC members. For example, we keep stores of krakka roots and dark matter so that our members can train their chocobos and repair for free. We have bigger plans for the future once we get more gil.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Let's start with forcing FCs to bid in the wards reserved for them.

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Splitting the wards purely between FC only and private only results in a net reduction of houses available to private buyers. Is that what you want?

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Selfishly hoarding resources is not the same thing as keeping control of those resources. Any gil my FC earns from subs is put straight into the FC coffer and used to buy things to benefit FC members. For example, we keep stores of krakka roots and dark matter so that our members can train their chocobos and repair for free. We have bigger plans for the future once we get more gil.

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Would be nice if people could earn those resources by themselves and not have to rely on your generosity. Although you seem to be more than helpful and generous with your members I would venture to guess you are the exception and not the rule when it comes to FC leadership.

The bottom line is that FC ward abuse is more than likely tied to money made with subs/airships and given SE seems to be inept with respect to controlling the abuse opening subs and airships to the community is a win win for the community in general including those who are unable to buy a house or those who only own private houses. Let everyone have the opportunity to access that content.

If I'm not mistaken the director has mentioned they are looking into giving private houses access to subs and airships although I do not have a link to that conversation. Placing it in Grand Company as well would give access to those without housing or those who simply own apartments.

The Director has said many things though including looking into letting alts share housing, small, medium and large apartments, and looking at adding workshops to private housing and so on. I'll believe it when i see it in the patch notes.

The solution proposed by a number here is to tax housing owners and what not to prevent those who would like to buy up wards by hurting everyone who follows the rules when it comes to home ownership. It shouldn't be those following the intent and letter of the rules who should have to bear a price for stopping this abuse when the real problem is the money made by air/subs which is the root of the problem at the center of this abuse.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The solution proposed by a number here is to tax housing owners and what not to prevent those who would like to buy up wards by hurting everyone who follows the rules when it comes to home ownership. It shouldn't be those following the intent and letter of the rules who should have to bear a price for stopping this abuse when the real problem is the money made by air/subs which is the root of the problem at the center of this abuse.

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Unfortunately, much of life is like that. Because not everyone is capable of making responsible choices, everyone gets restricted to prevent abuses.

We can't always be entirely certain what SE's intent for the system is.

In the case of FCs, it takes the petitioner plus 3 other players to establish a FC. It seems like SE's intent is for FCs to have at least 4 members. This gets reinforced by requiring the FC to continue to have 4 members to purchase a plot.

So is a FC with only 1-3 members within SE's intent for the system? They aren't taking action when a FC drops below 4 members so perhaps it is. Yet if FCs are intended to have just 1-3 members, why require 4 to establish one and purchase land in the first place? Why not just grant the FC to the petitioner upon request, or after getting 1-2 more signatures? Why not let the FC purchase land regardless of the number of members?

So we end up with players who get multiple houses for a variety of reasons - subs, gardens, RP venues that never seem to be open for bueiness and have no one inside when they are, or simply because they want to brag about having multiple houses while other players are still unable to get one.

If the spirit of the system is 1 personal and 1 FC house per world but SE doesn't wish to devote manpower to enforce that or fix the supply system so multiple house ownership doesn't impact the ability of other players to get houses, then there need to be deterrents in place to make it more difficult to abuse the intent of the system.

Since that abuse is occurring through FC houses, it makes sense for that to be the place to target the deterrents. People tend to think more about purchases that requires recurring payments so a recurring payment system such as rent seems like a good place to start. Company credits are a logical choice since they're passively generated by actively playing the game plus there's a way to take a more directed approach to get them.

An FC with 4 or more active members is not going to have any problems under this system. Even if they have members that have taken breaks from the game at times, they would have stockpiled additional credits during the periods the members were active that could be used to pay the rent during the downtime periods.

The FCs that will have a problem are the ones that don't have active members outside of the FC Master. Having just a single FC house for personal use shouldn't be taxing for a solo player. But someone with multiple FC houses is suddenly going to have a very hard time keeping up with all that rent if they don't have other active members in those FCs. Even if they started with a lot of gil, it's going to start disappearing.

It it worth getting all those houses in that case?

Take a look at the FCs you belong to that have at least 4 semi-active players and a house. How many Company Credits do those FCs have accumulated? Would any of them have genuine issues if 200-250k Company Credits removed each month compared to what they currently have and what they're likely to continue generating?

Or SE can make one personal, one FC house per world the strict rule of the system instead of the spirit of the system. Let those who want multiple houses spread them out over multiple worlds.

Or SE could just fix the supply issue once and for all so every player could buy as many houses as they want without impacting the ability of other players to do the same.

Right so you have no clue what it takes to grind 200k FC credits solo..

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Would any of them have genuine issues if 200-250k Company Credits removed each month compared to what they currently have and what they're likely to continue generating?

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Yeah no thank you, lets stop with the terrible ideas.

Dynamis is wide open.

Alpha/Raiden and Phantom/Sagittarius are open.

Go there if you want to have no competition for houses.

Stay on your homeworld and deal with the competition if you decide to do so.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Would help if you would answer the actual question instead of just saying "I don't want it so it's a bad idea".

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I already explained, there is no reason to add all these requirements and annoyances, there are enough houses for everyone, even on NA, Dynamis is wide open, if you decide to stay on a world with extreme competition that is overcrowded, its your responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Yeah no thank you, lets stop with the terrible ideas.

Dynamis is wide open.

Alpha/Raiden and Phantom/Sagittarius are open.

Go there if you want to have no competition for houses.

Stay on your homeworld and deal with the competition if you decide to do so.

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Would help if you would answer the actual question instead of just saying "I don't want it so it's a bad idea".

Do you want to have treadmill in game and be forced to do the same content over and over just to generate company credits? It's entertainment, not second work. FC credits are already used for FC buffs and ceruleum, and I think they are fairly balanced already. Solution to housing crisis shouldn't be something that makes everyone experience way worse and leads to burnout.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Would help if you would answer the actual question instead of just saying "I don't want it so it's a bad idea".

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It's just a bad idea. I think people are getting tired of "Well that didn't really work, housing is still a burning dumpster fire." Followed by "I know, let's put in even MORE restrictions! Surely that'll fix it this time!" It's the definition of insanity at this point.

Especially since housing is fairly plentiful everywhere /but/ the stubborn populace of overcrowded worlds. There's a reason the entirety of Crystal DC is locked as "Congested".

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Go there if you want to have no competition for houses.

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I thought saying that was not okay. How fickle.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

I think people are getting tired of "Well that didn't really work, housing is still a burning dumpster fire." Followed by "I know, let's put in even MORE restrictions! Surely that'll fix it this time!" It's the definition of insanity at this point.

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There's really only one restriction and it's as enforced like any other glitch like outdoor furniture placement. To constitute insanity it would actually have to be done at the very least once first.

Here's an interesting idea that could make having multiple fcs a bit difficult: You have to have 4 people in the actual workshop when crafting new workshop items such as sub parts. Also, make crafting so that in order to be able to craft everything, the skills have to be tied into a specific job. You want Prudent Synthesis while on your CRP? You better level your CUL in order to get that skill. (These are just estimations regarding what classes get what skills.)

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

I thought saying that was not okay. How fickle.



There's really only one restriction and it's as enforced like any other glitch like outdoor furniture placement. To constitute insanity it would actually have to be done at the very least once first.

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Are you ok with inside glitches or are they just as evil as outside? What about floating glitches? What about using furnishings for things other than their intended usage, like marble alcove beds for example? Does it make you want to hit the report button when someone uses it as a wall?

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Originally Posted by PaalHenrik

Here's an interesting idea that could make having multiple fcs a bit difficult: You have to have 4 people in the actual workshop when crafting new workshop items such as sub parts. Also, make crafting so that in order to be able to craft everything, the skills have to be tied into a specific job. You want Prudent Synthesis while on your CRP? You better level your CUL in order to get that skill. (These are just estimations regarding what classes get what skills.)

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HEY. You put that ancient evil right back where you found it.

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Originally Posted by PaalHenrik

Here's an interesting idea that could make having multiple fcs a bit difficult: You have to have 4 people in the actual workshop when crafting new workshop items such as sub parts. Also, make crafting so that in order to be able to craft everything, the skills have to be tied into a specific job. You want Prudent Synthesis while on your CRP? You better level your CUL in order to get that skill. (These are just estimations regarding what classes get what skills.)

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They used to do this and stopped because it was unnecessarily difficult. Also, having four people in your FC isn't the same as having four people on at the same time. Sub parts are also bought and sold on the marketboard. All you're doing is providing another source of gil for the worst offenders, who have multiple accounts.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

HEY. You put that ancient evil right back where you found it.

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I'm so sorry lol