5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Nothing wrong with AV being difficult. Honestly, the first room, the Malboros and the final boss have caused way more issues than Coincounter in my experience as well. Hell, they could buff literally everything else about AV and I'd have fun with it.

Don't confuse difficulty with shit design. Coincounter is changing because his mechanic is a garbage 1 hit kill with no telegraphs, not because he was some kind of impassable wall.

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Don't confuse shit difficulty with designs that demand you learn. There's nothing good about a dungeon causing issues for the party for the sake of a "challenge", it just means the dungeon is bad and needs a rework beyond nerfing a boss only the worst players who refuse to do better have a problem with.

I mean, I'm still gonna hate Aurum Vale just because the place is so damn ugly, so it's a lateral move to me. Seriously, why did ARR need so many gray caves, and who thought that filling one of them with yellow gas and morbols was an improvement?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I mean, I'm still gonna hate Aurum Vale just because the place is so damn ugly, so it's a lateral move to me. Seriously, why did ARR need so many gray caves, and who thought that filling one of them with yellow gas and morbols was an improvement?

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Though I actually like morbols, I agree on the design of the place. The middle area's okay if a bit bland, but the start and end make my eyes bleed. I actually rarely have issues finishing AV when it comes up in roulette but I just hate looking at the place.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I mean, I'm still gonna hate Aurum Vale just because the place is so damn ugly, so it's a lateral move to me. Seriously, why did ARR need so many gray caves, and who thought that filling one of them with yellow gas and morbols was an improvement?

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Several of the ARR dungeons were actually modified 1.X dungeons. Pretty much all of the 1.X dungeons were cave tunnels and SE made the 2.0 dungeons by blocking off the various alternative paths between rooms. Sastasha, Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak, Cutter's Cry, Dzemael Darkhold, and Aurum Vale were all built this way.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I mean, I'm still gonna hate Aurum Vale just because the place is so damn ugly, so it's a lateral move to me. Seriously, why did ARR need so many gray caves, and who thought that filling one of them with yellow gas and morbols was an improvement?

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It's about world building that's why.

Voidsent caves, plague infected ruins, and trudging through sewage and rot is what makes people so impressed with the WoL.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Several of the ARR dungeons were actually modified 1.X dungeons. Pretty much all of the 1.X dungeons were cave tunnels and SE made the 2.0 dungeons by blocking off the various alternative paths between rooms. Sastasha, Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak, Cutter's Cry, Dzemael Darkhold, and Aurum Vale were all built this way.

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I believe they're specifically referring to the aesthetics. The ARR dungeons are all terribly dreary and ugly places. Like the actual horror hole known as Haukke Manor.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I believe they're specifically referring to the aesthetics. The ARR dungeons are all terribly dreary and ugly places. Like the actual horror hole known as Haukke Manor.

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The aesthetics for those dungeons were inherited from how they were created. SE built most of the 1.X dungeons by assembling a bunch of generic cave tunnel and cave room pieces and then decorating them with various door, wall and object sets. You are in several cases going through copies of the exact same room with different furniture.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

Though I actually like morbols, I agree on the design of the place. The middle area's okay if a bit bland, but the start and end make my eyes bleed. I actually rarely have issues finishing AV when it comes up in roulette but I just hate looking at the place.

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All that green and mustard yellow is a sin.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

All that green and mustard yellow is a sin.

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When you think of bad smells (I.E. "bad breath") what colors come to mind?

At least the crafted plants from Aurum Vale look nice when you put them in a normal garden. There's a pretty ground cover and a large bush with blossom-buds all over it. Much better than Toto-Rak's neon carnivorous things.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

When you think of bad smells (I.E. "bad breath") what colors come to mind?

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I don't think of bad smells at all lol it absolutely makes sense, I just think it's really ugly. Which is the point I suppose, that it looks gross and smelly.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Its a very well designed boss, for starters the insta kill is only for dps and healers, the latter usually are farther from the boss so the run is hardly at risk. Tanks, which are usually more focused on mechanics and what the boss is doing are not punished hard since for them that is not that necessary and while doing that you once again don't risk the run meanwhile dps who are usually the players that tunnel vission the most and pay less attention are the ones that get more punished with a death, breaking their gameplay flow and basically telling them to pay attention to more things aside the numbers they do and their skills, and lastly for healers if they are at ranged distance the only problematic mechanics are the eye's ones which are non lethal serving as a callout to pay attention but like tank's case without risking the clear.

All the battle mechanics in that boss tell one thing "Pay attention to the boss, don't overrely on aoe marks" and all the mechanics do that without putting the party under a real risk, if the dps die they can get up with a res and practice as well as practice that principle of not relying too much on aoe marks in further trials. Coincounter is far from a boss with crap mechanics, is a good teacher that punishes you if you do bad but never hard enough to make it frustrating, the problem are the players that refuse to learn or adapt and tab into other things as soon as they die once even when the fight is not over, you have a good teacher, be a good student.

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Those boss mechanics aren't well designed. They don't demand you pay attention to survive it; they demand you Youtube the fight before hand. That's the only way to approach a fight where the attacks don't have tells. Otherwise you just die and don't get to participate in the fight. If that's what you think a well designed boss is, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I'm starting to think that explaining what good gameplay is to MMO players is kind of like trying to explain music to a deaf man. He has no concept of what it is, so there's really nothing you can say to make him understand.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Don't confuse shit difficulty with designs that demand you learn. There's nothing good about a dungeon causing issues for the party for the sake of a "challenge", it just means the dungeon is bad and needs a rework beyond nerfing a boss only the worst players who refuse to do better have a problem with.

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Presenting obstacles and issues to overcome is the core of difficulty. Good gameplay involves obstacles that are tough but fair; attacks that are difficult to react/adjust to but entirely possible. A 1 hit kill with no telegraph is just BS you'd only really expect from combat designers who have no idea what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

no idea what they're doing.

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You don't need to live through your first encounter with a boss or mechanic. It's okay to die, wipe and die again.

There is literally no down side apart from a few gil in repair bills if you haven't leveled crafters.

It's perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

You don't need to live through your first encounter with a boss or mechanic. It's okay to die, wipe and die again.

There is literally no down side apart from a few gil in repair bills if you haven't leveled crafters.

It's perfectly fine.

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The downside is a poor learning environment and/or an extremely lackluster experience for new players.

New player gets to the boss... He dies because there's no way to know what to do... The group clears the fight anyways... The new player doesn't experience that mechanic again until maybe 3 expansions later...

So, what did the experience boil down to for the new player? A shitty, cheap 1 hit kill death with no telegraph, that he had no fair chance to avoid, that didn't even serve as a decent teaching mechanism; because he couldn't put the lesson into practice.

It's just bad design that leads to an extremely mediocre experience for new players. Good riddance.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

New player gets to the boss... He dies because there's no way to know what to do... The group clears the fight anyways...

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If the group keep fighting without the newbie then that means the healer isn't using their ressurection

And I highly doubt that if the healer isn't using their resurrection they could even make it past the first boss

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

If the group keep fighting without the newbie then that means the healer isn't using their ressurection

And I highly doubt that if the healer isn't using their resurrection they could even make it past the first boss

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The DPS might get a res, or the healer might not bother. It's not exactly a difficult fight; it just has 1 lame mechanic that serves as an unavoidable blindside death for new players. In my experience healers usually let the new player stay dead; either being lazy or the group is struggling enough where the healer doesn't have the time/mana.

Doesn't matter, though; it's still a garbage mechanic, as it misses the mark on pretty much every rule established for even decent combat gameplay. The fact that healers can work around it if they feel like it, or you could just look up the mechanic yourself before the fight, doesn't make it good.

I don't understand the correlation between people thinking that their opinions are fact and also being incredibly uninformed about like... the entire game.

Like this man hadn't even done an alliance raid but he thinks he can figure out which mechs are garbage.

You haven't even seen mechanics.

Maybe before trying to define the best or worst ways people learn the person attempting to outline these rules shouldn't be entirely in the dark about the majority of the game they're referencing.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I don't understand the correlation between people thinking that their opinions are fact and also being incredibly uninformed about like... the entire game.

Like this man hadn't even done an alliance raid but he thinks he can figure out which mechs are garbage.

You haven't even seen mechanics.

Maybe before trying to define the best or worst ways people learn the person attempting to outline these rules shouldn't be entirely in the dark about the majority of the game they're referencing.

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I've played a lot of different video games in my life; ones with GOOD gameplay. There are certain basic rules they all follow, that all developers know.

MMORPG's are admittedly, consistently at the absolute bottom in terms of gameplay quality. The bar is set really low and you all expect very little, that much is apparent. It doesn't change the fact that when designing fights there are certain things you just don't do. Coincounters BS is one of those things. A mechanic that bad in a game where even decent gameplay is expected would be humiliating.

I just like the idea of FFXIV elevating itself a tiny bit by removing some of the design failures in old content. You people just fight this kind of change because I guess you don't know any better.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I've played a lot of different video games in my life; ones with GOOD gameplay. There are certain basic rules they all follow, that all developers know.

MMORPG's are admittedly, consistently at the absolute bottom in terms of gameplay quality. The bar is set really low and you all expect very little, that much is apparent. It doesn't change the fact that when designing fights there are certain things you just don't do. Coincounters BS is one of those things. A mechanic that bad in a game where even decent gameplay is expected would be humiliating.

I just like the idea of FFXIV elevating itself a tiny bit by removing some of the design failures in old content. You people just fight this kind of change because I guess you don't know any better.

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Or you just want easy predictable mechanics because that's all you can handle.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Or you just want easy predictable mechanics because that's all you can handle.

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You got me; I'm still stuck on Coincounter. I'll probably never complete AV.

Coincounters BS mechanic is easy to handle; even for a new player. You just have to Youtube the fight before ever doing it. That's apparently the hallmark of a good MMO mechanic; if only other genres knew this secret to creating engaging gameplay for new players.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

You got me; I'm still stuck on Coincounter. I'll probably never complete AV.

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Wouldn't be a surprise. Enlightened people who stand above the masses usually have other shortcomings.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Coincounters BS mechanic is easy to handle; even for a new player. You just have to Youtube the fight before ever doing it. That's apparently the hallmark of a good MMO mechanic; if only other genres knew this secret to creating engaging gameplay for new players.

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Or you go through the mechanic, die or survive, and now you know how to deal with it. No Youtube required. Simple boss design, but not bad by a longshot.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Wouldn't be a surprise. Enlightened people who stand above the masses usually have other shortcomings.


Or you go through the mechanic, die or survive, and now you know how to deal with it. No Youtube required. Simple boss design, but not bad by a longshot.

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Youtube is required if you want to have a fair fight when you first encounter the boss. No way to read, react or adjust to it during the fight makes it a bad mechanic and a bad fight.

You all really need to try out some more gameplay oriented games. I feel like if this was anything other than an MMO community I wouldn't even be having this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Youtube is required if you want to have a fair fight when you first encounter the boss. No way to read, react or adjust to it during the fight makes it a bad mechanic and a bad fight.

You all really need to try out some more gameplay oriented games. I feel like if this was anything other than an MMO community I wouldn't even be having this conversation.

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Alright, King of Games Goji, what "more gameplay oriented games" that you play that have FF14 should be emulating when it comes to enemies advertising mechanics to make it fair to the New Player?

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

Alright, King of Games Goji, what "more gameplay oriented games" that you play that have FF14 should be emulating when it comes to enemies advertising mechanics to make it fair to the New Player?

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Eh, all of them? Seriously, I don't think I've actually played another game where enemies kill you in 1 hit with attacks that don't have tells you can react to.

If we're looking for a specific example most of you have likely at least heard of, I'll go with Dark Souls. Every attack has an animation and a hitbox that's reasonably accurately represented by that animation. Everything the enemies throw you can see coming and react to it during the fight.

Dark Souls series has unfair deaths (attacks whose animation doesn't allow you to predict - cheese- them).

Also, DS has been debunked long ago as overhyping what "good gameplay and difficulty" is. No one serious nowadays tries to hold DS as the sole unique example of what gameplay and difficulty design is.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Dark Souls series has unfair deaths (attacks whose animation doesn't allow you to predict - cheese- them).

Also, DS has been debunked long ago as overhyping what "good gameplay and difficulty" is. No one serious nowadays tries to hold DS as the sole unique example of what gameplay and difficulty design is.

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Dark Souls is a fine example of good gameplay and difficulty; the people who try to claim otherwise have usually never even played the games. Please elaborate on the non-reactable 1-hit kills Souls has; you can't just say that without giving an example.

Plenty of games have better gameplay than Souls, though; I think games like Sekiro and Nioh were substantial gameplay improvements. DMC's gameplay is also far more complex. Dark Souls is just the easiest for people to recognize and dissect for conversations like this.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Eh, all of them? Seriously, I don't think I've actually played another game where enemies kill you in 1 hit with attacks that don't have tells you can react to.

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If the Coincounter was a boss in a single-player game you would absolutely be learning from his physical tells without markers and probably without displayed attack names either. But you also probably wouldn't be trying to fight him while remembering to hit an arbitrary sequence of skills - you're more likely to have a simple attack button and maybe some gimmick tools, and less pressure to keep performing well so you don't let the team down. If you want to spend a few rounds just figuring out what the boss does, you're free to do so without wasting anyone's time.

The flipside of this is that the game has no obligation to let you pass the battle the first time, and death is absolutely a learning tool. If it throws something unrecognisable at you, you will probably die and then learn from that experience - first what to watch out for, then how to deal with it. You're doing this entirely on your own time and not inconveniencing anyone.

The expectations here are different. You don't want to let the group down, so you can't take the same amount of time and attention to learn on your own.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Eh, all of them? Seriously, I don't think I've actually played another game where enemies kill you in 1 hit with attacks that don't have tells you can react to.

If we're looking for a specific example most of you have likely at least heard of, I'll go with Dark Souls. Every attack has an animation and a hitbox that's reasonably accurately represented by that animation. Everything the enemies throw you can see coming and react to it during the fight.

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So, let me get this straight, DarkSouls has animations that advertise an attack that will be coming at you. These attacks also have a hitbox that is based close to as possible with the weapon or object actually doing the attack? Like a giant, armored baddie using a greatsword. I am also sure there's some sort of sound or speech that indicates when an attack is being charged as well, since humans react to sounds faster than reacting to sight.

So FFIXV doesn't do this at all? Through any of its fights? None?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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If Coincounter was a boss in a single player game, we would probably have a frame 1 active dodge ability with iframes that allows us to avoid attacks based on the enemies animations. If we had limited mobility and no iframes, like in an MMO, however, there absolutely should be markers indicating what we need to do if the attack can't be survived.

Also, no game has an obligation to let you pass the battle the first time, but there is an obligation to make it possible to do with the information available. If you fail it should be because you made a mistake; not because a mechanic wasn't possible with the knowledge and utilities the game provided.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

So, let me get this straight, DarkSouls has animations that advertise an attack that will be coming at you. These attacks also have a hitbox that is based close to as possible with the weapon or object actually doing the attack? Like a giant, armored baddie using a greatsword. I am also sure there's some sort of sound or speech that indicates when an attack is being charged as well, since humans react to sounds faster than reacting to sight.

So FFIXV doesn't do this at all? Through any of its fights? None?

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There's no way to know Coincounters attack hits 360 degrees until it's too late to do anything about it, and it kills you in one hit.

In Dark Souls you have frame 1 active dodge animations with iframes, so you can avoid attacks based on what the animation looks like. Since FFXIV has limited mobility and no iframes it needs to provide markers, or NOT 1 hit kill you, to create a mechanic that can be reacted to or adjusted for. If FFXIV fails to do either of those things then the mechanic is a failure of basic design principles.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

There's no way to know Coincounters attack hits 360 degrees until it's too late to do anything about it, and it kills you in one hit.

In Dark Souls you have frame 1 active dodge animations with iframes, so you can avoid attacks based on what the animation looks like. Since FFXIV has limited mobility and no iframes it needs to provide markers, or NOT 1 hit kill you, to create a mechanic that can be reacted to or adjusted for. If FFXIV fails to do either of those things then the mechanic is a failure of basic design principles.

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It’s called trial-and-error, Game King. Something older games had you do plenty of.

Coincounter actually advertises what attack it will do based on its stance, the charge bar (which DS doesn’t have), the aura he makes, battle text box telling you, and on-screen text cues. That’s FIVE cues. If you cannot see something has changed with five cues, you deserve to be hit. Now with this giant red and orange marker, which now makes it six ways the game is telling you something big is coming.

Also, the charge is long, if you pay attention, you can get out of range in plenty of time. If you don’t move enough, yes you will get hit. The hitbox size is consistent, and even if you don’t know the exact pixel of distance you need, you know that the long armed large monster with giant mace is going to swing far, better make sure I go farther then that ASAP.

If you die, then you were undergeared. I have run AV plenty of times as a DPS and healer, with at-level gear, and managed to survive being hit.

SE gives the player enough to make up the shortcommings of a game that is multiplayer and all events are happening in real time. DS can do iframes with frame 1 active dodging. FFXIV cannot do that due to telecommunication limitations. DS isn’t bound to network environments and things like jitter or packet loss.

Before you cast your “New player” card for an attempt at sympathy, don’t bother. This game is super friendly to new players and is very forgiving all the way up through the main storyline. I’ve played other MMOs that actually were deadly to new players from the start and were not as forgiving as FFIXV. This includes FFXI.

If someone dislikes the XIV gameplay so much and hardly participates in it anyways maybe the game isn't for them.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

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This is mostly rambling that misses the point entirely. None of Coincounters cues indicate the attack will be a 360 degree one hit kill, so he could have 100 different colors, stances and cast bars going off before the attack and it wouldn't matter; you still wouldn't know what to do. If you don't know what to do you can't react, so you have no choice but to die.

Also, there is no "undergeared," dungeons have a minimum ilvl and if you meet it then you're appropriately geared. It's a 1 hit kill if you're not synched (overgeared).

Also, in most cases SE does make up for the limitations of MMORPG gameplay, but in Coincounters case they failed.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

If someone dislikes the XIV gameplay so much and hardly participates in it anyways maybe the game isn't for them.

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I like the gameplay fine for what it is. Coincounters crap is 1 mechanic on 1 boss; fortunately design failure like this aren't too common in this game.

Also, you need to get over the fact that I didn't bother with Alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

This is mostly rambling that misses the point entirely. None of Coincounters cues indicate the attack will be a 360 degree one hit kill, so he could have 100 different colors, stances and cast bars going off before the attack and it wouldn't matter; you still wouldn't know what to do. If you don't know what to do you can't react, so you have no choice but to die.

Also, there is no "undergeared," dungeons have a minimum ilvl and if you meet it then you're appropriately geared. It's a 1 hit kill if you're not synched (overgeared).

Also, in most cases SE does make up for the limitations of MMORPG gameplay, but in Coincounters case they failed.

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Oh look, more opinions presented as facts.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Oh look, more opinions presented as facts.

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None of that is really opinion. The basic tenets of good and bad gameplay development practices are already established. I didn't invent them, but I do believe in them. SE has always struggled a bit with gameplay, so a few failures aren't overly surprising or damning. All I was really doing was commending SE for addressing Coincounter.

What's entertaining about this is the handful of people on this forum who will defend bad gameplay to the death.

This MSQ trial boss in a nutshell: '' GRIFFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITH! ''.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

This is mostly rambling that misses the point entirely. None of Coincounters cues indicate the attack will be a 360 degree one hit kill, so he could have 100 different colors, stances and cast bars going off before the attack and it wouldn't matter; you still wouldn't know what to do. If you don't know what to do you can't react, so you have no choice but to die.

Also, there is no "undergeared," dungeons have a minimum ilvl and if you meet it then you're appropriately geared. It's a 1 hit kill if you're not synched (overgeared).

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Your point is:
1. I don’t know what attacks will “1 shot me”
2. I don’t know what the attack does, who the attack does it to, where does the attack occur, when does it occur, how does it occur

The answer to your points are trial-and-error. Which most of us had explained to you, but you are choosing to either not getting it or purposely ignoring it because this keeps the conversation within your frame and keeps you on a theoretical high ground.

My “rambiling” is an explanation on how much SE gives the player so the player can make a decision. This game never tells you if it is a “one-shot” outright. For most of the names of the attacks in this game, they are pretty self-descriptive. Coincounter has simple attack names.

• 10-Tonze Swipe: You should be able to pick up just from the word “swipe” that it would hit in front of the boss. You swipe in front of you in real life. 10 Tonze sounds close to 10 Tons. This will hurt some.
• 100-Tonze Swipe: Again, basic high-school English states this will occur in front of the boss, but 100 is more than 10, so it might hurt more
• 100-Tonze Swing: swing is 360, you swing your arms around your body, again high-school English. That 100 Tonze value again, seems like it will hurt, better move.
• Glower: comes with 5 cues and a walking animation. Hits far away. This will be the only one that is not intuitive… but it is also the one that deals the second to smallest amount of damage as compensation

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SE does enough hand-holding already. How much more do you need? I am asking you as in “you” proper, because this has to nothing to do with new players and everything about Goji.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

SE does enough hand-holding already. How much more do you need? I am asking you as in “you” proper, because this has to nothing to do with new players and everything about Goji.

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Giving you a way to react to your opponents attacks isn't hand holding, it's just the absolute most basic part of designing combat in a game. Every attack has a tell and a correct response; you just have to notice the tell and react correctly or you die. SE just forgot the part about adding a tell and went straight to you dying. They forgot step 1 in the 2 step process of constructing a competent fight.

I mean, forgetting that whole step is a mistake you RARELY see in games; I think you'd all be hard pressed to find another game with a mechanic that works like Coincounters. Still, I'm merely commending SE for deciding to address it.

The monster has an animation for every one of his attacks. Stop expecting the floor to tell you where to stand D;

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Originally Posted by Roda

The monster has an animation for every one of his attacks. Stop expecting the floor to tell you where to stand D;

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By the time the animation happens it's too late to do anything about it. The boss does also have a cast bar and a stance, but neither gives you any idea where you would need to stand to avoid the attack.

It's like I said, there's no tell.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Giving you a way to react to your opponents attacks isn't hand holding, it's just the absolute most basic part of designing combat in a game. Every attack has a tell and a correct response; you just have to notice the tell and react correctly or you die. SE just forgot the part about adding a tell and went straight to you dying. They forgot step 1 in the 2 step process of constructing a competent fight.

I mean, forgetting that whole step is a mistake you RARELY see in games; I think you'd all be hard pressed to find another game with a mechanic that works like Coincounters. Still, I'm merely commending SE for deciding to address it.

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Goji, you know what I meant about hand-holding. Don’t try to change the meanings of my words to keep your theoretical high-ground.

What you call a “tell” is a another visual cue. It is not the absolute cue. It is not the sole cue that tells people to react. It is one of the multiple cues that exists at the same time to provide an output to the player so the player can make a choice to do something with that output to create their own outcome. Whether that be moving or taking the hit in the case with Coincounter.

The didn’t “forget” the tell. If that were true, then they would have fixed that years ago. It was a design decision at the time.

You do not consider the fight complete because it is missing 1 out of 6 cues. Other people disagree.

I can easily find a game that has the exact same mechanic like Coincounter’s: FFXI. Every mob in that game has attacks that do not have a ground AOE marker to telegraph where that attack is going to hit. You only have three cues that something is going to happen. Sometimes mobs have an attack that can have multiple outcomes and you have no way to know what will happen. Goblin Bomb Toss is an example: can have three outcomes; a close range aoe that can deal high damage, a close range aoe that deals low damage, a self-inflicting attack that kills the goblin. FFXI still has players. That game isn’t dead.

I can name a whole franchise: Dynasty Warriors. The literal fast food of the musou genre has no indicators of where attacks will land. Lu Bu going is going to one-shot you and all you see is a change in animation and sound cue. Unless you have seen the attack before, you don’t know how the attack works. All you have is change in animation to look at from your enemy. Oh, and how musou attack works change in each installment. So what Lu Bu does in 5 isn't what he does in 6. You only have the option to run or block (in 7, 8, and 9 you have counters you can execute with one button).

Fallout 4: No AOE indicators. I guess I'll die then.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Also, you need to get over the fact that I didn't bother with Alliance raids.

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If you really think its your lack of alliance raid experience that causes me to call you unqualified to make these assertions I feel like maybe you should log off the forums and enjoy a few moments of introspection.

(Cause theres plenty more)

Can you imagine doing the new nier raid? There are so many things without blatant, orange floor indicators... how did any of us make it through?