Add ilv requirement please in ShB[Dev Request]

Considering Trusts, adding ilevel to MSQ goes right out the window when based Urianger will carry you and Tankred does his job better than some actual players.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2jenyoh.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

I was misunderstood.
When there is a rule, players start to bend that rule.
When levelling secondary-job, no matter if you clear sastasha or the Vault, because what it matters is the bonus exp you take when you complete the dungeon.
I can do Copperbell mine with 2 big pulls (elevator -> first boss and second boss -> third boss), while in a Bardum Mettle I need to pick 3 groups before the first boss and 10-12 in the whole dungeon.
If there is a rule "item level restricted" I could purposely wear only low level gear, because I wanna do only low-level dungeons (they are faster to complete).

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Players will always try to find the easiest way of doing things, if a rule is put into place people will try to see if they can get around that doesn't mean everybody will, look at msq roulette for example there are people who try and get out of watching cutscenes, this is unintended and reportable, now evading duties by having a lower ilv cannot be reportable because you cannot know what gear they are holding instead a solution would be to use what is already in the game with regards to mentor roulette.

Mentor roulette will not let you use it for 2 reasons, the reason that would be used for this new leveling roulette stipulation would be having a minimum ilv requirement, for this new leveling roulette we would use the fact you could only enter duties appropriate to your level as it is currently and add a minimum ilv requirement equal to the highest duty you currently have unlocked, this is to ensure no matter what you get within it your are appropriately geared for it.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

edit. And I would like to point another incoming (related) issue. With ShB we have 80 levels for each job to do.
Ok, we are veterans, so it's only a 70->80 farming, but what about a new player? Levelling a character from zero is starting to be endless: SE should add a bigger bonus exp when levelling alt-jobs, but this mean the levelling goes faster and it's easier to skip a complete tier of equip.
Things are becoming complicated because the game is growing: insane dps, neverending levelling etc etc. and Devs cannot simply ignore the matter.

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There is plenty of exp going to lv 60 let alone the boosting that SB content will receive in ShB, i have seen more people complain they get too much exp and are lv 60+ still doing 3.0 story so i do not think leveling is the issue, the bigger issue would be MSQ itself but that is a completely different topic that does not belong here.

Leveling roulette, alliance roulette will be relevant SE has made sure they would with how much exp they give as well as tomestones

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Originally Posted by Gula

Considering Trusts, adding ilevel to MSQ goes right out the window when based Urianger will carry you and Tankred does his job better than some actual players.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2jenyoh.jpg

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2 Problems, trusts are ShB msq dungeons only so SB stuff and below can still easily have this issue, and leveling roulette will still be a thing which could very easily plop a ilv 23 tank in the lv79 dungeon

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

The quick and simple solution is to make it so that leveling roulette forces an ilvl requirement equal to the highest level dungeon your character has unlocked so there'd be zero way to cheese.

So if you're level 69 and Abania had a hypothetical ilvl lock of 275, then leveling roulette would have a forced ilvl requirement of 275. Bam. Prevents anyone undergeared from entering and blocks any cheese on manipulating the roulette to get results you want. No more WHMs showing up in i200 gear in doma castle getting one shot by literally everything that so much as breathes on them (Thanks duty finder last night.)

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I repeat myself again. With an ilevel restriction there will be no more Abania, not from a levelling roulette nor for a sprout, because it's fun… let's say 10 times, then it's boring like copperbell, but longer, difficult etc etc.

Press on heirloom, if they want or not I don't care, it's the solution AND it's ALMOST ready (after they decide a cosmetic appearance and starting-end bonus).

I don't understand why you guys think that a wall could solve a problem, it's medieval (or populist if you prefer) to be kind.

Why not just add a leveling duty roulette for each expansion's content. At this point no one will get caught off guard with what dungeon they queue into.

I am all for putting item level reqs on these dungeons but what a lot of you guys are expecting is too unreasonably high. Leveling dungeons are really (really) not so difficult that you need pretty much the highest item level available at that point to complete them.

All these reqs need to do is weed out the people that are too blatantly undergeared (like the lv50 Ironworks stuff in Sirensong Sea that keeps getting brought up is certainly a valid example).

I maintain that i130 stuff is more than enough to handle all 3.0 content and i270 is more than enough to handle all 4.0 content.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I
I maintain that i130 stuff is more than enough to handle all 3.0 content and i270 is more than enough to handle all 4.0 content.

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You can say this. But you're wrong. Healers will absolutely hate you if you're in the 55 and 65 + dungeons with old, outdated gear.

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You can say this. But you're wrong. Healers will absolutely hate you if you're in the 55 and 65 + dungeons with old, outdated gear.

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Good thing it isn't really old or outdated at that point.

Incidentally, just healed an i130 tank in Vault last night with absolutely zero issues. Maybe these healers just need to git gud, because I am hardly a first class healer myself.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I maintain that i130 stuff is more than enough to handle all 3.0 content and i270 is more than enough to handle all 4.0 content.

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Trying to see if I understand. You are saying that i130, the max ilvl gear from ARR is enough to handle all HW content and i270 the max ilvl gear from HW is enough to handle all SB content? How!? o.O

No, I mean just 3.0 and 4.0 content (specifically the MSQ / leveling dungeons leading up to the new level cap), not the entirety of the expansions. If I meant the latter I woulda said 3.x and 4.x

Figured that woulda been obvious that's what I meant, since the level capped dungeons (even the very first ones, ARF and AM) have item level requirements that i130 and i270 are insufficient for.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, I mean just 3.0 and 4.0 content (specifically the MSQ / leveling dungeons leading up to the new level cap), not the entirety of the expansions. If I meant the latter I woulda said 3.x and 4.x

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I understood you meant the 51 - 60 and the 61-70 content for each respectively. I'm just a bit shocked. Ex. Running Ala Mhigo in nothing but i270 gear is honestly tempting fate to have you decorate the floor.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I maintain that i130 stuff is more than enough to handle all 3.0 content and i270 is more than enough to handle all 4.0 content.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Good thing it isn't really old or outdated at that point.

Incidentally, just healed an i130 tank in Vault last night with absolutely zero issues. Maybe these healers just need to git gud, because I am hardly a first class healer myself.

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To quote myself:

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

for reference hlr hq gear

HW: hands lv 50 ilv 120 def 50 mdef 84, hands lv 55 def 52 mdef 86, hands lv 56 def 53 mdef 102, feet(hands and feet share same amount of stats) lv 57 def 53 mdef 115
So from lv 50 to 56 you'd gain 3 def 18 mdef on top of other stats (this is for just head/hands or feet) expected going into
the vault it's not huge but it is noticeable

SB: hands lv 60 ilv 270 def 137 mdef 240, hands lv 64 def 156 mdef 273, hands lv 65 def 174 mdef 305, hands lv 66 def 193 mdef 337
So from 60 to 66 you'd gain 56 def 97 mdef on top of other stats (again this is just head/hands or feet) expected going into Doma Castle that is a lot of survivability lost by not upgrading and this is just on the lower stat increasing pieces let alone wep/body and legs

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This is why you were ok in the vault as that is the start for HW ramping up the dmg dungeons deal, SB starts this in Bardum's Mettle before you enter Doma Castle if your are wearing highest ilv270 gear your are being inconsiderate to the rest of your party you are missing massive amounts of defense, main stats and sub stats.

Also bear in mind those numbers are for healers, it is way way worse for tanks if you enter Castrum Abania with ilv 270 gear only you have less defense than a drg with full lv 68 gear, let that sink in to why that is a problem.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

I understood you meant the 51 - 60 and the 61-70 content for each respectively. I'm just a bit shocked. Ex. Running Ala Mhigo in nothing but i270 gear is honestly tempting fate to have you decorate the floor.

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Ala Mhigo has an ilv requirement and because it does it negates any argument that they don't want to gate story due to insufficient gear.

Ah that's right 280 with a 310 sync. I didnt remember that being there.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

You can say this. But you're wrong. Healers will absolutely hate you if you're in the 55 and 65 + dungeons with old, outdated gear.

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Please tell me what gear people are meant to wear for those two dungeons. Augmented tome gear (270) is equal to level 63 dungeon gear which you would use to run the level 65 dungeon. How is that undergeared?

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This is why you were ok in the vault as that is the start for HW ramping up the dmg dungeons deal, SB starts this in Bardum's Mettle before you enter Doma Castle if your are wearing highest ilv270 gear your are being inconsiderate to the rest of your party you are missing massive amounts of defense, main stats and sub stats.

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Done Doma and Abania just as easily at i270 too with all 3 roles.

The DEF number comparisons mean nothing without actually knowing how much damage reduction the higher numbers result in. I can tell you for a fact it's not as much as you're making it out to be.

There's a reason why Foresight is one of our weakest tank cooldowns, despite being what looks like it would be a significant boost at +20% DEF. It just doesn't stack up to the straight up damage reduction offered by other tank cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

There's a reason why Foresight is one of our weakest tank cooldowns, despite being what looks like it would be a significant boost at +20% DEF. It just doesn't stack up to the straight up damage reduction offered by other tank cooldowns.

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Dang... Foresight? How long has it been since you played tank? That ability was nuked a long time ago. Though your explanation is almost certainly why they nixed it.

Fine, was.

You see how little attention I've paid to it? That's how much it sucked.

Really though, what I did was pull up its information on a wiki, because I didn't know exactly how much DEF% it granted. Presumably, this wiki is out of date, because it makes no mention of it being a deprecated ability. Oops.

Also I haven't really played Warrior other than to XP it so there's that too

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Done Doma and Abania just as easily at i270 too with all 3 roles.

The DEF number comparisons mean nothing without actually knowing how much damage reduction the higher numbers result in. I can tell you for a fact it's not as much as you're making it out to be.

There's a reason why Foresight is one of our weakest tank cooldowns, despite being what looks like it would be a significant boost at +20% DEF. It just doesn't stack up to the straight up damage reduction offered by other tank cooldowns.

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ok lets do this:

Augmented Shire Astrometer
Class: AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Damage: 114 (Magical)
Delay: 3.20 Auto-Attack: 89.60
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 2
Bonuses
Vitality +184
Mind +182
Piety +138
Critical Hit Rate +97

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Belt
Class: CNJ, WHM, SCH, AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 119 Magic Defence: 208
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 1
Bonuses
Vitality +79
Mind +78
Critical Hit Rate +59
Spell Speed +42

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Coat
Class: CNJ, WHM, SCH, AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 192 Magic Defence: 336
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 2
Bonuses
Vitality +171
Mind +169
Piety +128
Spell Speed +90

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Gloves
Class: CNJ, WHM, SCH, AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 137 Magic Defence: 240
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 2
Bonuses
Vitality +105
Mind +104
Piety +55
Spell Speed +79

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Hat
Class: CNJ, WHM, SCH, AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 137 Magic Defence: 240
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 2
Bonuses
Vitality +105
Mind +104
Piety +55
Determination +76

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Hose
Class: CNJ, WHM, SCH, AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 192 Magic Defence: 336
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 2
Bonuses
Vitality +171
Mind +169
Critical Hit Rate +129
Determination +86

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Thighboots
Class: CNJ, WHM, SCH, AST
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 137 Magic Defence: 240
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 2
Bonuses
Vitality +105
Mind +104
Piety +79
Determination +53

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Bracelets
Class: All Classes
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 1 Magic Defence: 1
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 1
Bonuses
Mind +78
Piety +59
Critical Hit Rate +42

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Choker
Class: All Classes
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 1 Magic Defence: 1
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 1
Bonuses
Mind +78
Piety +59
Determination +40

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Earrings
Class: All Classes
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 1 Magic Defence: 1
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 1
Bonuses
Mind +78
Critical Hit Rate +42
Spell Speed +59

Augmented Shire Preceptor's Ring
Class: All Classes
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 1 Magic Defence: 1
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 1
Bonuses
Mind +78
Determination +57
Spell Speed +42

Proto Ultima Ring of Healing
Class: All Classes
Item Level: 270 Req. Level: 60
Defence: 1 Magic Defence: 1
Sells For: Unsellable Materia Slots: 1
Bonuses
Mind +78
Critical Hit Rate +59
Determination +40


so overall you would have for ilv 270
-114 weapon damage
-919 defense
-1605 magic defense
-920 vit
-1300 main stat(casters share stat weights with healers so we can measure dps too)
-1665 secondary stats

Now lets check lv 68 gear since you said were running that gear in Castrum Abania

Palladium Planisphere
Astrologian's Arm
Item Level 285
Magic Damage
122
AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +196 Mind +211 Critical Hit +142 Spell Speed +203

Twinsilk Hood of Healing
Head
Item Level 285
Defense
230
Magic Defense
402
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +112 Mind +121 Spell Speed +81 Piety +116

Gazelleskin Coat of Healing
Body
Item Level 285
Defense
322
Magic Defense
563
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +182 Mind +196 Critical Hit +188 Spell Speed +132

Gazelleskin Bracers of Healing
Hands
Item Level 285
Defense
230
Magic Defense
402
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +112 Mind +121 Spell Speed +81 Piety +116

Twinsilk Sash of Healing
Waist
Item Level 285
Defense
199
Magic Defense
348
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +84 Mind +90 Critical Hit +61 Piety +87

Twinsilk Slops of Healing
Legs
Item Level 285
Defense
322
Magic Defense
563
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +182 Mind +196 Determination +188 Piety +132

Gazelleskin Boots of Healing
Feet
Item Level 285
Defense
230
Magic Defense
402
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Vitality +112 Mind +121 Critical Hit +116 Piety +81

Molybdenum Earring of Healing
Earrings
Item Level 285
Defense
Magic Defense
1
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Mind +90 Determination +61 Spell Speed +87

Palladium Choker of Healing
Necklace
Item Level 285
Defense
1
Magic Defense
1
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Mind +90 Spell Speed +87 Piety +61

Palladium Bracelet of Healing
Bracelets
Item Level 285
Defense
1
Magic Defense
1
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Mind +90 Critical Hit +61 Piety +87

Palladium Ring of Healing
Ring
Item Level 285
Defense
1
Magic Defense
1
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Mind +90 Critical Hit +61 Piety +87

Palladium Ring of Healing
Ring
Item Level 285
Defense
1
Magic Defense
1
CNJ WHM SCH AST
Lv. 68
Bonuses
Mind +90 Critical Hit +61 Piety +87

So overall for ilv285 you have
-122 weapon damage
-1538 defense
-2685 magic defense
-980 vit
-1506 main stat
-2464 secondary stats

Now lets compare shall we overall by remaining in ilv270 gear you lose
-8 weapon damage
-619 defense
-1080 magic defense
-60 vit
-206 main stat
-799 secondary stats

All this can be carried over to caster dps as well

You were a hindrance to any party you were in with that gear in Abania and i feel sorry for anybody you were grouped with when you did it you caused unnecessary stress on your healer(when you weren't healing) and doing far weaker damage than you should have been by a significant amount 8 Weapon damage is huge, 206 main stat is huge, 799 secondary stats is huge.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

I repeat myself again. With an ilevel restriction there will be no more Abania, not from a levelling roulette nor for a sprout, because it's fun… let's say 10 times, then it's boring like copperbell, but longer, difficult etc etc.

Press on heirloom, if they want or not I don't care, it's the solution AND it's ALMOST ready (after they decide a cosmetic appearance and starting-end bonus).

I don't understand why you guys think that a wall could solve a problem, it's medieval (or populist if you prefer) to be kind.

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I don't understand what you're trying to imply? Implementing the solution as I described guarantees Abania can't be avoided if a player has it unlocked and is the appropriate level to queue for it. A wall is a great solution since it's a very binary "You either forfeit your right to do the roulette at all, or you go get geared up". Given the sheer exp that level appropriate dungeons and leveling roulette gives, I can pretty much guarantee it'll get people to where their gear needs to be and completely obliterate this ridiculous "entering a dungeon 50+ ilvls below where you should be" issue that others along with myself have experienced, and I've experienced it at least 4 times in the past few months, with varying degrees of "dungeon is uncompleteable" to "This Bard may as well not exist with that i130 bow he has here in Bardaam's."

Yoshi-P already said he's hesitant on ilvl scaling items, so I wouldn't throw my eggs in that basket as a likely solution.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Now lets compare shall we overall by remaining in ilv270 gear you lose
-8 weapon damage
-619 defense
-1080 magic defense
-60 vit
-206 main stat
-799 secondary stats

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Playing devil's advocate, stats don't mean much without context behind them. They look like big numbers, but you'd be surprised how little the damage actually increases between 270-> 290 due to stat scaling. There was an old topic about this exact thing where my bf showed using the actual formulas the game uses that even though tanks get something like 1200 extra defense, it actually only works out to 10% extra mitigation and showed that player skill has more bearing than the stats. All that fancy 285 gear doesn't power creep you anywhere as much as you think.

Which yeah, given how the vast majority of dps I've encountered barely AoE or do some...interesting rotations, I wouldn't be surprised if I could obliterate the vast majority of 285 dps with 270. Stats only carry people so far, player skill matters infinitely more than them.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

Why not just add a leveling duty roulette for each expansion's content. At this point no one will get caught off guard with what dungeon they queue into.

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Because the point is not to segregate the community more than necessary.

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Playing devil's advocate, stats don't mean much without context behind them. They look like big numbers, but you'd be surprised how little the damage actually increases between 270-> 290 due to stat scaling. There was an old topic about this exact thing where my bf showed using the actual formulas the game uses that even though tanks get something like 1200 extra defense, it actually only works out to 10% extra mitigation and showed that player skill has more bearing than the stats. All that fancy 285 gear doesn't power creep you anywhere as much as you think.

Which yeah, given how the vast majority of dps I've encountered barely AoE or do some...interesting rotations, I wouldn't be surprised if I could obliterate the vast majority of 285 dps with 270. Stats only carry people so far, player skill matters infinitely more than them.

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Bingo. All of this.

What about, if you queue a roulette not geared enough for all the duties you have unlocked, you will forfeit the roulette rewards?

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

What about, if you queue a roulette not geared enough for all the duties you have unlocked, you will forfeit the roulette rewards?

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I agree with the concept that it would discourage people from q ing into things such as alliance roul to exploit ilvl loopholes (lvl70 purposefully wearing lvl 50 gear to pop CT raids), but there are flaws that I'm certain others would point out.

It has to be done, either its a 100% random roulett or you dont get it, end of story. There is no "but i dont wana yxz" or "but if you want [dungeon abc] this badly que directly!" its ALL or Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

It has to be done, either its a 100% random roulett or you dont get it, end of story. There is no "but i dont wana yxz" or "but if you want [dungeon abc] this badly que directly!" its ALL or Nothing.

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In this case, roulette need choose between ALL your unlocked duties, and if you get queued for something you are not geared enough, the confirm button needs stay greyed as it happens when you haven't the same job you queued for.

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Originally Posted by linay

Because the point is not to segregate the community more than necessary.

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How does this segregate anyone? 3 more roulettes means people are queueing for 3 more dungeons than they would otherwise do.

They could add 400Ilvl req for the first 2 ShB lvl dungeon and then steadly go up as higher Ilvl gear will drop from MSQ and higher lvl dungeons.

(You can get nearly 1K tomes per week now and as soon as ShB hits the whole cap gets removed, at that point the AR coins also becomes purchasable by tomes and you pretty much get these tomes handed to you on a silver platter)



That way we can still speedrun to an extend and are not held back by underperforming players due to lower gear stats.

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They could add 400Ilvl req for the first 2 ShB lvl dungeon and then steadly go up as higher Ilvl gear will drop from MSQ and higher lvl dungeons.

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You (and many others in this thread) seem to have forgotten that item level requirements are there to enforce a minimum, not a maximum.

The first dungeon probably isn't even gonna drop i400 gear, if Dusk Vigil and Sirensong are any indication (in fact they each dropped i120 and i260 stuff, respectively, 10 below the previous expansion's "cap"). The second dungeon, again if we follow previous trends, will probably drop i400 gear itself. Assuming they follow the same gear progression trends as before (and we really have no reason to expect that they wouldn't), why should these dungeons have a i400 requirement when they likely aren't even going to reward stuff that's better than i400?

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That way we can still speedrun to an extend and are not held back by underperforming players due to lower gear stats.

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Item level requirements for leveling dungeons and story content should never be based around a speedrunning mentality. Seriously, come on now. Save that attitude for savage raids, where meeting DPS/enrage checks actually (if artificially) enforces the whole "gotta go fast" efficiency thing.

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Playing devil's advocate, stats don't mean much without context behind them. They look like big numbers, but you'd be surprised how little the damage actually increases between 270-> 290 due to stat scaling. There was an old topic about this exact thing where my bf showed using the actual formulas the game uses that even though tanks get something like 1200 extra defense, it actually only works out to 10% extra mitigation and showed that player skill has more bearing than the stats. All that fancy 285 gear doesn't power creep you anywhere as much as you think.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Bingo. All of this.

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Well i decided to go and do some numbers in game,

I used ast with no cards as they are rng and could favor one set over the other, i use lucid dreaming on cd, malefic 3, combust 2 refreshed as it dropped off and Earthly star in Duirnal sect for 10 minute duration 10 times the average number of kills against Salt Abinla/earth sprites both lv 69 was
-ilv270 12 enemies killed
-ilv285 16 enemies killed

Other things to point out, i moved as fast as possible to aggro a new mob, because the ilv270 was taking longer to kill i went oom around the 2 minute left mark whereas the ilv285 never got close to 1/4 mp left in fact the ilv 285 killed things faster than the plateau with the enemies respawn timer fortunately on a rock bridge close by there was another Salt Abinla ready, on mount between for 5 secs tops

Next up is defense, i aggroed an Abaddon lv 69 and took a 50 auto attack non crit, non parried, non direct hit sample
-ilv270, 2208.44
-ilv285, 2016.68

Next magic defense, i aggroed a Salt Abinla lv69 and took a 50 aero non crit, non parried, non direct hit sample
-ilv270, 2007.14
-ilv285, 1861.52

Next we have vit totals
-23560hp ilv270
-24850hp ilv285

Lastly i took a sample of 50 non crit benefics
-ilv270, 5272.84
-ilv285, 6336.42

so comparing on average for lv 69 overworld mobs which have less hp, deal less damage, than the lv69 dungeon trash and bosses
-you deal 1/4 less damage using your non rng tools
-you'll be taking 9.509% more physical damage
-you'll be taking 7.823% more magical damage
-have 1,290 less hp
-have 20.171% weaker benefics

This is specifically for ast but the hp,magic defense, physical defense can be applied to all DoM classes and to put into a bit better perspective a 22k unmitigated raid magic aoe hitting the ilv 285 would live the ilv 270 would be eating that floor.

This is why i would call anyone in Abania in ilv 270 inconsiderate they are putting more stress on the other party members to make up for damage loss, damage taken, forcing more cds, forced waiting for tp/mp regens.

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Which yeah, given how the vast majority of dps I've encountered barely AoE or do some...interesting rotations, I wouldn't be surprised if I could obliterate the vast majority of 285 dps with 270. Stats only carry people so far, player skill matters infinitely more than them.

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Player skill is always a factor in how fast things are run but you can't tell me if that good ilv270 player was wearing ilv285 gear things wouldn't be better, more stats on a bad player barely raises them, more stats on a good player you start to feel it.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

How does this segregate anyone? 3 more roulettes means people are queueing for 3 more dungeons than they would otherwise do.

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No this does not equate what you are thinking. People queue for leveling roulette knowing they're going to land in a leveling dungeoun. they dont know which one thus they cannot pick and choose what area they will get you give people the choice and they will take the path of least resistance for the best reward.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

No this does not equate what you are thinking. People queue for leveling roulette knowing they're going to land in a leveling dungeoun. they dont know which one thus they cannot pick and choose what area they will get you give people the choice and they will take the path of least resistance for the best reward.

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So what you are saying is that people would not want the extra daily rewards for the additional roulettes? That just doesn't make sense. I feel like people who wouldn't clear each of the leveling roulettes for the daily rewards already don't do the current one.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

In this case, roulette need choose between ALL your unlocked duties, and if you get queued for something you are not geared enough, the confirm button needs stay greyed as it happens when you haven't the same job you queued for.

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Well, all that fit the roulett you que, i dont see any problem. The system is there, just not in use/fine tuned. Que for a lv 60 dungeon with an min lvl requirement, put off some gear so youre below it, its the same as if you've swiched job.

On the same note the have to return to the need to unlock all possible duties to use it, but add an bonus for your first time clear, so its worht it (and ppl cant complain).

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Player skill is always a factor in how fast things are run but you can't tell me if that good ilv270 player was wearing ilv285 gear things wouldn't be better, more stats on a bad player barely raises them, more stats on a good player you start to feel it.

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Oh, I won't deny more stats is worse; more stats is always better. My statement was in regards to this:

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You were a hindrance to any party

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Which is far from the truth in many situations since stats on their own mean little if the player skill behind that gear can't utilize them to even 40% of their value.

I personally think healer is a bad example of kill times since your rotation is basically spam 1, re-apply 2, use the very few ogcds you use for damage. Whereas you can get mystical eye-rolling dps players like SMNs who don't apply dots, BLM that don't use enochian, things that constitute very large swaths of their damage output being ignored and causing massive deviations in damage output between bad vs good players that would take immense extra stats to fix. You get any of these dps in your Abania and you'll be begging for an i270 knows what they're doing player in comparison lol.

Beyond that, my point was that sure; more stats is good, but at the end of the day an ilvl 270 player who knows proper rotations, utilization of support and abilities, etc of his job is an infinitely better asset than an i285 player who uses single target moves in a pack, barely knows their job, etc. i270 is far from a hindrance or inconsiderate when utilized properly; it all comes down to the player. I know my bf in i270 leveling WAR on his 3rd alt was infinitely easier to heal in Abania than literally every other tank I've met in Bardaam's, Doma and Abania to this day, and he was even Deliverancing quite a lot as well.

Basically, don't judge a book by its cover. Instead judge it when its obvious the person doesn't have the skill to back it up; you might misjudge the i270 player that's about to save you 5+ minutes on your run over the i285 Blizzard mage you might get instead.

TL:DR; more stats are good, but stats by themselves are pointless if the player behind them can't use them correctly.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

How does this segregate anyone? 3 more roulettes means people are queueing for 3 more dungeons than they would otherwise do.

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Not everyone will do every roulette, especially if you increase the number of roulettes. And even if you do all three, each time you queue for one, you're not queueing for the other two, which means the pool size is smaller for each.

Doing leveling roulettes and 50/60 and MSQ. Sometimes I forget to pick up some gear once I got a higher level.
Then DR leveling drops me in a 59 or 61 dungeon. VS the pre 30 ones.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Absolutely. It doesn't have to be anything excessive, even NQ around that level, but the fact you are allowed to queue for a lv69 dungeon without your job crystal, no job quests done, wearing ilv1 glamour, as a tank, is ridiculous.

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For duty finder parties? I completely agree.


For preformed parties? Once I ran Hell's Lid without my soul crystal, along with 3 other players who were also using their base classes. Granted, we all had at least iL 380 but it was a lot of fun and a great challenge for us. It took us a little bit longer and we absolutely needed to get the mechanics spot on when fighting the final boss but it was a really nice change of pace so I'd recommend it to any veteran player who wanted to rediscover their class roots.

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Originally Posted by Moltera

For duty finder parties? I completely agree.


For preformed parties? Once I ran Hell's Lid without my soul crystal, along with 3 other players who were also using their base classes. Granted, we all had at least iL 380 but it was a lot of fun and a great challenge for us. It took us a little bit longer and we absolutely needed to get the mechanics spot on when fighting the final boss but it was a really nice change of pace so I'd recommend it to any veteran player who wanted to rediscover their class roots.

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TBF, minimum ilvl restrictions are circumvented by pre-formed parties in the first place, so having the 'job crystal' requirement also being circumvented by that is perfectly fine in my book.

On topic, I remain firmly rooted in my belief that as soon as they added ilvl requirements for dungeons, they should never have not added them to dungeons beyond that. Sirensong hits harder than Baelsar's Wall, it makes no sense that a person needs an ilvl of 230 to enter BW but can go in ilvl 1 into the harder hitting dungeon.