Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

Let me be the first to give you a shrug and say if he was away for more than 80 days, he'd already decided to quit. Not my problem.

If he wants to start playing again, he can start a new collection. Or not; not my problem.

---

Yes, I believe apathy is dangerous in the sense that it doesn't help the game grow. Even if these things aren't your problem per se, they could be someday. I'm just a little baffled at the amount of people opposing to have a clearer message in-game, deploying several mental gymnastics to justify the current system and preserve the status quo.

I 100% believe in unrestricted “restore lost content”

I would, as well as many others would pay to have items/characters restored.

We can pay to jump characters but not restore lost ones? I can pay for past event items from the mog station but not lost items like the OP here?

It’s a service. And we would love to pay for it.

I feel the housing issue in FFXIV is a major problem. 1st, not enough houses for the population per server, 2nd auto deleting houses.

If I designed this game, those would be two things I'd do differently. I'd find a way to support enough houses for each account, I'd make Houses shared per account. (people with many alts would have the same 1 house. after all this game is not alt friendly anyway, and I think they have issues with server space from the way it's limited.

The shard zones for housing was a great idea, however the max limit of shards is silly.

This thread is absolutely boggling.

Why is it some grave sin to ask for better messaging? Not even about housing demolition, but freaking item reclamation after the fact? OP isn't even arguing that housing should be permanent or whatever, they just want SE to use the systems already in place to say "heads up that stuff you collected is gonna go poof soon". That should be a super basic part of the game at this point. It should have been included as part of the introduction of housing demolition in the first place since that's the only situation you ever have to worry about it. And yet some people are acting like OP is an entitled kid asking for a fleet of Ferraris for his 16th birthday or something. I don't get it at all.

"Well you didn't read up on every single fact about housing and foolishly expected the game to remind you like it does for other things if something bad was going to happen, shame on you, you didn't deserve it anyway" is such a senseless and antagonistic position to take here. There is no harm to your chances of getting a house if people get a pop up reminding them to collect their stuff after a demolition. You are not somehow more hardcore, more deserving, or superior to someone because you know how the system works and they didn't. The game doesn't ever ask a player to intimately know the ins and outs of the systems they take part in to enjoy them; this isn't a hostile game that caters to players who enjoy struggling for every gain they make. Housing should not be an exception to this rule! A single paragraph amongst a fire hose of information in the early game is not sufficient, I don't know why anyone thinks it is.

A simple "pick up your junk in x days or it's gone for good" message would only be a net benefit to the game. How is it possible to argue against it without bringing up false accusations of entitlement, privilege, or holier-than-thou finger waggling?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

This thread is absolutely boggling.

Why is it some grave sin to ask for better messaging? Not even about housing demolition, but freaking item reclamation after the fact? OP isn't even arguing that housing should be permanent or whatever, they just want SE to use the systems already in place to say "heads up that stuff you collected is gonna go poof soon". That should be a super basic part of the game at this point. It should have been included as part of the introduction of housing demolition in the first place since that's the only situation you ever have to worry about it. And yet some people are acting like OP is an entitled kid asking for a fleet of Ferraris for his 16th birthday or something. I don't get it at all.

"Well you didn't read up on every single fact about housing and foolishly expected the game to remind you like it does for other things if something bad was going to happen, shame on you, you didn't deserve it anyway" is such a senseless and antagonistic position to take here. There is no harm to your chances of getting a house if people get a pop up reminding them to collect their stuff after a demolition. You are not somehow more hardcore, more deserving, or superior to someone because you know how the system works and they didn't. The game doesn't ever ask a player to intimately know the ins and outs of the systems they take part in to enjoy them; this isn't a hostile game that caters to players who enjoy struggling for every gain they make. Housing should not be an exception to this rule! A single paragraph amongst a fire hose of information in the early game is not sufficient, I don't know why anyone thinks it is.

A simple "pick up your junk in x days or it's gone for good" message would only be a net benefit to the game. How is it possible to argue against it without bringing up false accusations of entitlement, privilege, or holier-than-thou finger waggling?

---

Thank you.

This antiquated system should go away.

They should make houses permanent and instanced and available for a fixed price. If people really want the status symbol of being in a neighborhood then let them fight over lots where your house will show up if you get one. If you don't visit it you lose your lot but your house just goes back to being instanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Why is it some grave sin to ask for better messaging? Not even about housing demolition, but freaking item reclamation after the fact?

---

Because that's not the essence of this post at all. If it were, we would all support it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rswfire

Because that's not the essence of this post at all. If it were, we would all support it.

---

It's the essence of my post, spot on. It would seem that everyone's personal prejudices around the housing system and what they perceive as player entitlement are being dragged into the discussion, which can't be helped. But it is the essence of my post.

Soooo in anut shell, you’re quitting because SE can’t give you back 6years of you're life because you can’t take the time to read you’re emails?

And here my husband lost his 1.0 Character after 6-7 years and was like oo well I’ll just start over. He lost EVERTHING. SE can’t give back all of it, he got just the character back no item, gear, he’ll lost all his soul stones. But a true fav never give up.. just take some time off and start over/come back.

I have to say, for a thread where one of the main criticisms levelled against me is that I haven't done enough reading, there's a remarkable lack of reading being done before replying. I appreciate we're now at 25 pages, but that should be a small order for those proclaiming to have read every Lodestone article and patch note since the dawn of time. </hyperbole>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hazuki87

Soooo in anut shell, you’re quitting because SE can’t give you back 6years of you're life because you can’t take the time to read you’re emails?

---

As repeatedly covered, I received no emails. A GM went through all the usual culprits with me, but as I had been recieving all other notifications (subsription renewal notification emails, promotional emails, etc), we couldn't understand why not. And a GM replied here in this very thread, acknowledging that they cannot guarantee emails are actually delivered - only sent - because of mitigating factors that might come into play before they even reach me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

No, what I don't get is how some content that OP ignored for more then 80 days made him quit. Clearly this was not a part of the game that the OP cared about, if OP did then this would not happened. If it was the straw that broke the camels back I would understand it, but as the sole reason? No way.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

Let me be the first to give you a shrug and say if he was away for more than 80 days, he'd already decided to quit.

---

I have not decided to leave the game because my house was demolished. I did not ignore the content, and I did care about it. Due to significant real life circumstances that massively limited the amount of time I could play, I had to prioritise what I did when I logged in. Housing didn't make that list not because I didn't care about it, but because I didn't realise I needed to enter the estate every X days, and so I mistakenly believed that enjoying estate content was something that could be picked up again - along with the vast majority of the game - when my real life had changed for the better.

As mentioned time and time again, by myself and other posters who've understood what I said, the reason is the loss of my furnishings collection. And so:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

If he wants to start playing again, he can start a new collection.

---

The reason that the loss of my furnishings collection is enough to impact my motivation to continue playing is that a lot of it is not available anymore.


Quite why it's necessary to repeatedly say "not my problem", as though anyone for a second even suggested that it was, is beyond me. I guess it just adds to the maverick, devil-may-care forum-warrior persona?

This is to you OP I agree that better systems need to be in place, and it'll be awesome if you could get EVERYTHING ingame. Rotations, all your housing info, melds guides.. the works ingame. That'll be awesome, but that's sadly not the world we live in. The reason people keep bringing up the fact that you didn't care in their eyes is because like I mentioned. Nearly EVERYONE coming to an mmo goes out the game for guides, classes, and houses and other information. I mean hell, Mr happy talked about housing a bunch of times over the years. People are pretty much like " HOW???!!" Cause in the world we live in NOW? It's amazing you missed the information. It's not hidden or anything so thats why people keep bringing it up with their tones. I'm just saying while I DO agree with you oin the info thing, I can't disaggree with everyone else asking you how in the world did you miss this info in the first place.

That and putting your game time in the title does nothing but not help your case. Think of it this way. Lets say I make a post on sonicstadium about how I been a sonic fan since 1991 right? - which I am- But I THEN go and make the statement that I didn't know Sonic is made by Sega. Thats a crazy statement and EVERYONE on said site hell the WORLD would question how I could've been a fan from the beginning yet missed that one fact. That's what putting your time up there has done. It just doesn't help your case is all I'm saying. :c

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

He wouldn't have lost anything if he took it upon himself to say " I don't know alot about this... let me ask someone or ask google." That is my only point. Yes SE needs better things but they can't fix lazy. Look at the dutyfinder thread for proof of that.

---

We are not even just talking about the OP...we are also talking about people that might not simply be able to play for a time be it because of sickness or other real life reasons. So those wont just only lose their ingame house but depending on how long they cant play every single housing item..how is that fine? No amount of reading something up will change this because RL can have a horrible way to destroy any plans to save them. And as the OP has stated again and again that it was those items that made him quit.

Also you are looking at this from the view of knowning that such a system exist. Why should someone even look it up if they dont? Taking away your house is not something a lot of MMOs do and since they got no single information when they bought the house itself, why should someone believe that there is more behind it than simply buying it and keeping it? What is so bad about having a little tutorial that will pop up when you place the house on the ground and that will tell you the deal?

There is so much handholding in this game, so many tutorials for even small things. Yet none for that. But somehow its bad that people want to make the system better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

No, what I don't get is how some content that OP ignored for more then 80 days made him quit. Clearly this was not a part of the game that the OP cared about, if OP did then this would not happened. If it was the straw that broke the camels back I would understand it, but as the sole reason? No way.

---

Maybe losing stuff that you cant get anywhere else ingame and that you gathered for years might be a breaking point for quite some people. You say that he did not care for 80 days but what are 80 days if you play this game for years? He also stated that he had only minimal amount of time and was planning to use it more as soon as he got more time.

I mean so if you once won a limited mount in PVP but you dont PVP anymore or just take a break from it for a time, would it be fine if they take that mount away again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

We are not even just talking about the OP...we are also talking about people that might not simply be able to play for a time be it because of sickness or other real life reasons. So those wont just only lose their ingame house but depending on how long they cant play every single housing item..how is that fine? No amount of reading something up will change this because RL can have a horrible way to destroy any plans to save them. And as the OP has stated again and again that it was those items that made him quit.

Also you are looking at this from the view of knowning that such a system exist. Why should someone even look it up if they dont? Taking away your house is not something a lot of MMOs do and since they got no single information when they bought the house itself, why should someone believe that there is more behind it than simply buying it and keeping it? What is so bad about having a little tutorial that will pop up when you place the house on the ground and that will tell you the deal?

There is so much handholding in this game, so many tutorials for even small things. Yet none for that. But somehow its bad that people want to make the system better.

---

I got no opinion on that cause if RL hit you that hard then nothing is going to save your stuff with the timers that are in place. You're pretty much sol. And that is excatly WHY you would want to look this stuff up. - FFXIV housingg vs WILDSTAR or -insert other mmos here- on google is your best bet. Don't expect the game to tell you everything since it doesn't. Otherwise noone would make guides or walkthurs or rotation videos. People do this for all games pretty much. Why is it such a crime to do what you would do for any other game ever and use google? Also my reply above yours addresses why people are stuck on the google issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

I got no opinion on that cause if RL hit you that hard then nothing is going to save your stuff with the timers that are in place. You're pretty much sol. And that is excatly WHY you would want to look this stuff up. - FFXIV housingg vs WILDSTAR or -insert other mmos here- on google is your best bet. Don't expect the game to tell you everything since it doesn't. Otherwise noone would make guides or walkthurs or rotation videos. People do this for all games pretty much. Why is it such a crime to do what you would do for any other game ever and use google? Also my reply above yours addresses why people are stuck on the google issue.

---

Then why not hope and post about it and let SE create a better system where they will just store these things forever? Instead of just saying that this is how its now and people should just be fine with it. Its not fine. People are able to lose things that they have paid rl money for it. For something that could be solved by SE themselves. Even if someone does read it up and understands it, RL can always throw a curve in the plans and you can own a house for years ingame and suddenly its happening. No amount of reading will help you with that. And no never getting a house for the chance of it happening is not the solution for this.

Its quite simple: SE can change both things. They could give us more direct informations ingame and they could store all of those items on a NPC forever and the price for storing is the loss of all Gil. This way everyone gets the message that there is a timer and they still wont lose their things. Easy solution. No need for guides, for the fear of rl coming your way and more.

If someone needs a guide to understand normal game systems like housing or even glamour then there is something really wrong with a game because that should be explained. Just like you have a big amount of tutorials how to move your character and other stuff. Its just basic things that should be explained. Guides should only truly exist for the players that want to play on a high level because they will see the optimal way to play. But even without a guide you could still play fine. (People can understand their job by reading their own skills) You also dont need a guide to clear a fight. Its just there to make it easier to clear but its not necessary because people can learn. (Honestly I find nothing worse than someone going around and saying that someone should have already read a guide for a train party on something new..) In the end you always need the most important basics of each gameplay section in the game. People dont need to read a guide from someone that only found out how the job works by pushing numbers. You can also understand it, by reading through your skills, seeing the numbers and taking clues for this. A guide is only needed when you dont understand that or want to be on a high level.

Better example: The information about the timer right now is like a lvl 15 player that gets told by some NPCs that they meet, that they need to remember to use x Skill when they are max level to make the basic of a job work. You could find this information somewhere near the job npc again if you talk to another one but only then. Otherwise there is no ingame indication when you reach that level that there is something you need to do.

Maybe this sounds strange but in a way this is exactly like housing works right now. And SE could easily change it. Yet somehow some people are against such a change even though it wont hurt them in any way..if you already know the information you will simply click the pop up away, if you dont have a house you wont get the information and for the rest its great. Honestly I am just baffled how people are against something that is only a win and that does not mean that they lose other content for that either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

I got no opinion on that cause if RL hit you that hard then nothing is going to save your stuff with the timers that are in place. You're pretty much sol. And that is excatly WHY you would want to look this stuff up. - FFXIV housingg vs WILDSTAR or -insert other mmos here- on google is your best bet. Don't expect the game to tell you everything since it doesn't. Otherwise noone would make guides or walkthurs or rotation videos. People do this for all games pretty much. Why is it such a crime to do what you would do for any other game ever and use google? Also my reply above yours addresses why people are stuck on the google issue.

---

A player should not have to go outside the game to lookup how basic functions work and most won't. The game has to be the one telling the player the rules and it has to do this at the appropriate place/time. Informing players about the demolition timer and the need to enter their house to reset it should be done when a player purchases a house. If the player forgets or ignores the warning shame on them but in its current state it is shame on SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Claviusnex

A player should not have to go outside the game to lookup how basic functions work and most won't. The game has to be the one telling the player the rules and it has to do this at the appropriate place/time. Informing players about the demolition timer and the need to enter their house to reset it should be done when a player purchases a house. If the player forgets or ignores the warning shame on them but in its current state it is shame on SE.

---

SE sent an email and put a timer on the cooldowns list. That's more than enough, and anything they add on top of that is still going to get another layer of "why didn't they tell me when..." added on. If people are playing so little their house blows up, it doesn't matter what messaging square puts in the game, it'll get missed.

If anything, square needs to reduce the grace period so people start treating housing as what it is: transitory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

SE sent an email and put a timer on the cooldowns list. That's more than enough, and anything they add on top of that is still going to get another layer of "why didn't they tell me when..." added on. If people are playing so little their house blows up, it doesn't matter what messaging square puts in the game, it'll get missed.

If anything, square needs to reduce the grace period so people start treating housing as what it is: transitory.

---

I agree with you 1000% but the OP did mention they didn't get any emails. That is a little odd to me but hey shit happens. Still doesn't excuse the OP for not knowing about the demo timers - yes I know it's not about the demo.. BUT had he known again... none of this would've happened- So yes I agree with you perfectly... I just want to add the system does fail from time to time so a little more checks fro mSE would be nice. But none of that will help stupid and lazy so again. SE can only go so far.. in this case it's still on OP for losing everything cause they didn't have the foresight to look this stuff up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

SE sent an email and put a timer on the cooldowns list. That's more than enough, and anything they add on top of that is still going to get another layer of "why didn't they tell me when..." added on. If people are playing so little their house blows up, it doesn't matter what messaging square puts in the game, it'll get missed.

If anything, square needs to reduce the grace period so people start treating housing as what it is: transitory.

---

Didn’t you say earlier that it wasn’t your problem? Why are you so against having an additional warning or further in-game explanations?

The timer doesn’t even appear until your house has 15 days away from being demolished. At the very least it should be there at all times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Didn’t you say earlier that it wasn’t your problem? Why are you so against having an additional warning or further in-game explanations?

The timer doesn’t even appear until your house has 15 days away from being demolished. At the very least it should be there at all times.

---

I rarely have seen comments say "the way the demolition mechanic is explained in the game is fine". They keep saying "personal responsibility" or "you should always google everything". They keep saying players need to assume SE's in-game help messages are unhelpful. That in order to get by we need to be paranoid that SE left out something very important. It is truly baffling that anyone regards this as acceptable.

And it's funny to see "but the timer is in the timers window" because it's obvious they don't know how the whole mechanic works either. The demolition timer is invisible for the majority of its duration. What good is an invisible ui element to anyone? How can anyone argue this is a helpful hint to the presence of demolition? I encountered loads of people who thought they were looking for the timer in the wrong place because of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

And it's funny to see "but the timer is in the timers window" because it's obvious they don't know how the whole mechanic works either. The demolition timer is invisible for the majority of its duration. What good is an invisible ui element to anyone? How can anyone argue this is a helpful hint to the presence of demolition? I encountered loads of people who thought they were looking for the timer in the wrong place because of this.

---

I have a house, and while I knew about the demo timer in general, I didn't realize there was a place to check in-game for it. So this morning I thought I'd check it out once I was done patching, and this is all I see:
https://i.imgur.com/BPHb88Q.png

This isn't exactly helpful. Up until Raskbuck's post above, I didn't realize it would remain blank until 15 days or less until demo. This would probably be a fantastic spot to put some quick information regarding the demolition / item reclamation time frame, as well as maybe an active timer or some other notice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I have a house, and while I knew about the demo timer in general, I didn't realize there was a place to check in-game for it. So this morning I thought I'd check it out once I was done patching, and this is all I see:
https://i.imgur.com/BPHb88Q.png

This isn't exactly helpful. Up until Raskbuck's post above, I didn't realize it would remain blank until 15 days or less until demo. This would probably be a fantastic spot to put some quick information regarding the demolition / item reclamation time frame, as well as maybe an active timer or some other notice.

---

Yep there are some other threads about having the timer show all of the time and go red at 15 days. Even that gets push back about responsibility, it won't help me and not wanting UI changes even though it is already there. I just don't get why so many folks in the player base jump all over suggestions that only provide more information and don't affect them one iota.

But just because SE does not do something now does not mean they will never do it in the future at all. Its just strange to see people argue against it even when it would not even hurt them. You say that you dont find it acceptable yet argued quite a bit on how its kinda our fault because information outside the game exists. So if you are not fine with the situation why even argue against it at all?

SE probably not doing something is imo not a good reason to say that people should not discuss it or want it (not directly meant at you btw) or even be against a better solution. Maybe they wont change something but the OP was told by a GM to post their opinion and maybe just maybe there is a little hope that it will reach their ear and if not then we have at least done everything we could do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

But just because SE does not do something now does not mean they will never do it in the future at all. Its just strange to see people argue against it even when it would not even hurt them. You say that you dont find it acceptable yet argued quite a bit on how its kinda our fault because information outside the game exists. So if you are not fine with the situation why even argue against it at all?

SE probably not doing something is imo not a good reason to say that people should not discuss it or want it (not directly meant at you btw) or even be against a better solution. Maybe they wont change something but the OP was told by a GM to post their opinion and maybe just maybe there is a little hope that it will reach their ear and if not then we have at least done everything we could do.

---

I mean in the OP case it is his fault. This is entirely his fault. He's is not blameless in this case at all. I'm not saying SE is blameless but I'm sick of people throwing AL kinds of care away cause - SE is evil and I'm mad so they ruined EVERYTHING- thought process. At some point we as players HAVE to own up to our own mistakes. And this is one of those cases where OP is at fault. And YES it's cause the imformation IS out there. IT DOES exist and because it does and he's the only person in this thread and maybe the whole game who didn't know about demo timeers when he's been playing for over a 1000 DAYS? THAT is what I was debating cause it doesn't make sense. And no amount of telling me his excuses will make it make sense. See myt sonic example on why. But thats why I keptt saying JUST cause I believe SE needs better systems does NOT mean I blieve op is not at fault cause he IS. Even with everything in place.. all he had to do was google. And until SE changes something yes you going to be expected to go out of game to get your info otherwise shame on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

I mean in the OP case it is his fault. This is entirely his fault. He's is not blameless in this case at all. I'm not saying SE is blameless but I'm sick of people throwing AL kinds of care away cause - SE is evil and I'm mad so they ruined EVERYTHING- thought process. At some point we as players HAVE to own up to our own mistakes. And this is one of those cases where OP is at fault. And YES it's cause the imformation IS out there. IT DOES exist and because it does and he's the only person in this thread and maybe the whole game who didn't know about demo timeers when he's been playing for over a 1000 DAYS? THAT is what I was debating cause it doesn't make sense. And no amount of telling me his excuses will make it make sense. See myt sonic example on why. But thats why I keptt saying JUST cause I believe SE needs better systems does NOT mean I blieve op is not at fault cause he IS. Even with everything in place.. all he had to do was google. And until SE changes something yes you going to be expected to go out of game to get your info otherwise shame on you.

---

When we play this game, we do not sign a waiver stating that we will search out all producer notes, live letters, patch notes, etc. It is not the responsibility of a player to actively search for information outside of the game that they play. If the game is not providing sufficient information in-game, that is a failing of the developers.

Yes, of course you can learn far more by doing outside research, but the fact of the matter is that it is not a requirement to play this game. SE's inability to properly warn players in-game of the demolition / reclamation process is entirely on their hands. This is the only content that you can lose permanently, and they do a horrible job of letting you know that. Did you see that screenshot I posted above? If I somehow did not know about the demolition process, what exactly am I going to learn from that screen?

This thread, if nothing else, will hopefully open SE's eyes to the fact that they need to improve on this particular issue. As others have mentioned, they have obnoxious pop-ups for far less important things (e.g. achievements, which you can't even hide..). There is really no excuse for them to not be more diligent on the housing notifications.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

When we play this game, we do not sign a waiver stating that we will search out all producer notes, live letters, patch notes, etc. It is not the responsibility of a player to actively search for information outside of the game that they play. If the game is not providing sufficient information in-game, that is a failing of the developers.

Yes, of course you can learn far more by doing outside research, but the fact of the matter is that it is not a requirement to play this game. SE's inability to properly warn players in-game of the demolition / reclamation process is entirely on their hands. This is the only content that you can lose permanently, and they do a horrible job of letting you know that. Did you see that screenshot I posted above? If I somehow did not know about the demolition process, what exactly am I going to learn from that screen?

This thread, if nothing else, will hopefully open SE's eyes to the fact that they need to improve on this particular issue. As others have mentioned, they have obnoxious pop-ups for far less important things (e.g. achievements, which you can't even hide..). There is really no excuse for them to not be more diligent on the housing notifications.

---

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens. And no I don't mean on day 1. I mean when you have over 1000 plus days on whatever it is and telling peoople that. See where that gets you. See how people let you their groups with open arms and :Ds. I'll wait. :/ You see whats wrong here? SE can do a million things and none of it changes what happened. Stop defending someone being lazy. He has well over A THOUSAND playing hours. In an mmo, you mean to tell me he's innoccent for NOT doing ANY kind of research? How in the world did he miss ALL the info being mentioned about the timers. IN FOUR POINT TWO????!!!?! SERIOUSLY? I dunno.. Sorry but I'mma have to agree to disagree here. there's nothing you can tell me to change my mind.. OP is def at fault here. I already said SE needs better stuff but THAT doesn't mean OP isn't at fault for NOT paying attention. Sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens. And no I don't mean on day 1. I mean when you have over 1000 plus days on whatever it is and telling peoople that. See where that gets you. See how people let you their groups with open arms and :Ds. I'll wait. :/ You see whats wrong here? SE can do a million things and none of it changes what happened. Stop defending someone being lazy. He has well over A THOUSAND playing hours. In an mmo, you mean to tell me he's innoccent for NOT doing ANY kind of research? How in the world did he miss ALL the info being mentioned about the timers. IN FOUR POINT TWO????!!!?! SERIOUSLY? I dunno.. Sorry but I'mma have to agree to disagree here. there's nothing you can tell me to change my mind.. OP is def at fault here. I already said SE needs better stuff but THAT doesn't mean OP isn't at fault for NOT paying attention. Sorry.

---

You can absolutely do raiding without any outside research. You have your tooltips. You can slowly get through it with trial and error. How do you think people that get World Firsts manage? There are no guides for new content, and yet they manage to clear it. So that argument doesn't work at all.

Also, OP has already said several times they are not blaming SE. They are trying to bring awareness and share their thoughts as the GM suggested.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

You can absolutely do raiding without any outside research. You have your tooltips. You can slowly get through it with trial and error. How do you think people that get World Firsts manage? There are no guides for new content, and yet they manage to clear it. So that argument doesn't work at all.

Also, OP has already said several times they are not blaming SE. They are trying to bring awareness and share their thoughts as the GM suggested.

---

I said NOT on day 1 tho. You missed that part. You also missed the part where I said go into a raid talking like you have over 1000 days played NEVER looking at guides and whatnot. You would not be accepted. And EVERYONE i nthat group is going to tell you to read a guide etc etc. Again want proof.. - tales of a dutyfinder - My point being is pointing at SE for a user error is messed up and is the sole reason we can never have anything with teeth cause everyone cries like a baby cause - the game didn't hold my hand- When it shouldn't. You should know enough about games that - sonic doesn't play like mario or crash.- Why? Cause just because one mmo didn't kill your house with a timer does NOT mean they ALL follow the same rules. If you can't find it ingame, ask someone , if they don't know - which EVERYONE knew here- then google it. There was NO excuse for him to NOT know about any of those timers. NOT when people blew up about it like a year ago, and even more before that. Housing has been a HUGE topic in this game since I've been here for what... 2 years and a half years. EVERYONE was talking about it. If you have enough sense to come to the freaking fourms then what is your excuse for not knowing? The info is THERE. Look for it.

No but he pointed his finger at SE which ofcourse people will bandwagon and blame SE when this entire thing is becuase of HIS user error. The onkly point I was and have been making this entire time was if he just had enough sense to google. He'll have his stuff, he'll have everything. Just because you're not told to go outside the game to look things up doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T. Will won't hear anyone say this about anything else in the game.. so why treat this one different... you don't. So if you choose to NOT go outside and learn then what happens to you is your fault cause the info is def out there. SE doesn't need to baby us all the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens. And no I don't mean on day 1. I mean when you have over 1000 plus days on whatever it is and telling peoople that. See where that gets you.

---

I know a great blm who doesn't read guides for his class or boss tactics and he does purple parses. He learns the fights himself along with his static and they coordinate together on how to make the most of their team's dps. I know of quite a few statics and only one among them has reading guides as a requirement. And no the progress doesn't differ greatly from the one who read guides to those who go in blind.

Contrary to what you might think reading guides isn't a requirement for raiding. The -players- might tell you it's a requirement, but that's a person demanding this. Not the game. Plenty of people raid blind and learn from their own experience instead of second-hand experience from others. It's actually pretty common.

As for the rest of the game you don't need guides at all. I don't know what way you play and if whatever you do works for you, then great. But personally myself and nearly everyone else I know rarely look up guides unless something genuinely confuses us.

Heck the only reason why I looked up a guide for housing years ago was because I wanted to find out if there was a mechanic in the game that added more wards. Had there been an empty plot for me to buy then I wouldn't have bothered looking up a guide. I'd have just bought the plot and learned as I explored the content myself. Which is actually how most players approach content in general.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

I know a great blm who doesn't read guides for his class or boss tactics and he does purple parses. He learns the fights himself along with his static and they coordinate together on how to make the most of their team's dps. I know of quite a few statics and only one among them has reading guides as a requirement. And no the progress doesn't differ greatly from the one who read guides to those who go in blind.

Contrary to what you might think reading guides isn't a requirement for raiding. The -players- might tell you it's a requirement, but that's a person demanding this. Not the game. Plenty of people raid blind and learn from their own experience instead of second-hand experience from others. It's actually pretty common.

As for the rest of the game you don't need guides at all. I don't know what way you play and if whatever you do works for you, then great. But personally myself and nearly everyone else I know rarely look up guides unless something genuinely confuses us.

Heck the only reason why I looked up a guide for housing years ago was because I wanted to find out if there was a mechanic in the game that added more wards. Had there been an empty plot for me to buy then I wouldn't have bothered looking up a guide. I'd have just bought the plot and learned as I explored the content myself. Which is actually how most players approach content in general.

---

Funny thing in your try to debunk me.. you proved my point. When something confused you did what now? OH YOU DID WHAT I MENTIONED OP SHOULD DO HOW ABOUT THAT??? So OP couldn't do that? You did it, TONS of people have, tons of people do. This isn't about raiding. That was just an example. But you already proved my point. The fact OP didn't do that is WHY I continue to say it's his fault for losing his stuff. If he was some noob kid then that'll be one thing. But he put in the title he has over 1000 days...... and started on day one. I'm sorry... you should've known better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

Funny thing in your try to debunk me.. you proved my point. When something confused you did what now? OH YOU DID WHAT I MENTIONED OP SHOULD DO HOW ABOUT THAT??? So OP couldn't do that?

---

Did you even read OP's post? He found out there were things about housing he didn't know after he lost his house. He wasn't confused until after his house and furnishings were gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Did you even read OP's post? He found out there were things about housing he didn't know after he lost his house.

---

Have you been reading what I been saying this entire time? Do you even know what my point is? Fine since you clearly don't and just want to defend this guy. How did he not know? With 1000 plus days in? When 3 big huge things surrounding housing happened within 3 years? How did he miss people complaining about it EVERYWHERE? He didn't care until it was too late. If he was confused he should've looked it up.. like EVERYONE ELSE. That was my point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

I said NOT on day 1 tho. You missed that part. You also missed the part where I said go into a raid talking like you have over 1000 days played NEVER looking at guides and whatnot. You would not be accepted. And EVERYONE i nthat group is going to tell you to read a guide etc etc. Again want proof.. - tales of a dutyfinder - My point being is pointing at SE for a user error is messed up and is the sole reason we can never have anything with teeth cause everyone cries like a baby cause - the game didn't hold my hand- When it shouldn't. You should know enough about games that - sonic doesn't play like mario or crash.- Why? Cause just because one mmo didn't kill your house with a timer does NOT mean they ALL follow the same rules. If you can't find it ingame, ask someone , if they don't know - which EVERYONE knew here- then google it. There was NO excuse for him to NOT know about any of those timers. NOT when people blew up about it like a year ago, and even more before that. Housing has been a HUGE topic in this game since I've been here for what... 2 years and a half years. EVERYONE was talking about it. If you have enough sense to come to the freaking fourms then what is your excuse for not knowing? The info is THERE. Look for it.

No but he pointed his finger at SE which ofcourse people will bandwagon and blame SE when this entire thing is becuase of HIS user error. The onkly point I was and have been making this entire time was if he just had enough sense to google. He'll have his stuff, he'll have everything. Just because you're not told to go outside the game to look things up doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T. Will won't hear anyone say this about anything else in the game.. so why treat this one different... you don't. So if you choose to NOT go outside and learn then what happens to you is your fault cause the info is def out there. SE doesn't need to baby us all the time.

---

World first clears are a totally valid point and work against your argument of requiring outside knowledge. But even for us plebs who follow at a later date, a particular group can set whatever requirements they wish. Some like to go into fights blind, some require you to watch a video. The point is though, none of it is required by the game itself. These requirements to look up a fight are from players who want to have an easier time of a fight.

Anyway, we're obviously never going to see eye to eye on this. You want to blame the players for missing something that is not obvious in-game, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt they had no knowledge of the situation. Regardless of where the fault lies in this particular situation, even you have agreed that SE could improve upon it. That should be the takeaway of this thread. How can SE improve their shoddy housing demolition notification system?

No one here is crying like a baby over things. I'd say that plenty of valid points and suggestions have been brought up, but it's continually getting buried by those who have some odd refusal to move on from blaming OP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

Have been reading what I been saying this entire time? Do you even know what my point is?

---

Yea your point is focusing on OP and putting him down while ignoring the real problem, which is that demolition is a borderline hidden feature in the game. I think you have absolutely no interest in improving anything at all. You seem far more interested in pointing fingers at OP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

and just want to defend this guy.

---

Well yea because you have this idea that OP is at fault for not being paranoid enough to make sure SE didn't leave out super important things in their ui. No one should have to play like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

How did he not know? With 1000 plus days in? When 3 big huge things surrounding housing happened within 3 years? How did he miss people complaining about it EVERYWHERE?

---

I already admitted, as did OP, that this is unusual. But this doesn't excuse that SE practically hide the existence of demolition. This is akin to OP getting blamed for driving the wrong way on an unmarked one-way street. Sure as a driver he could have seen other aspects of traffic to show it was one-way, but it still doesn't excuse the lack of a clearly marked sign.

And that's the problem. With demolition there are no clearly marked signs.

This thread is a over glorified "I didn't use my house in time and lost it" type thread....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

SE sent an email and put a timer on the cooldowns list. That's more than enough, and anything they add on top of that is still going to get another layer of "why didn't they tell me when..." added on. If people are playing so little their house blows up, it doesn't matter what messaging square puts in the game, it'll get missed.

If anything, square needs to reduce the grace period so people start treating housing as what it is: transitory.

---

having a notification on a page you have to look for is not a notification.

it's not more than enough, it's bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens.

---

The person that first writes the guide that will help others does not have one themselves and can still clear these things and get every information ingame. Heck I would dare and say that most people just read guides because they dont want to take the time to learn it themselves. (And there is nothing wrong with that because not everyone can do all the maths and calculate the perfect rotation - I suck at maths for example) But lets not pretend that the game would otherwise be unplayable. People can and did beat raids or learn their job without one. The problem is that not reading it up and playing badly does not take something away from the game. It does not delete your armor or any other hard work. So all the informations you get ingame are enough to play it and most of the time its enough to play it quite well, everything else is just for those that want to go beyond that.

Housing demolishing is a basic information, necessary to even own a house for a long time. (Because a lot of people probably do take breaks) Thus it should have all the information ingame. And again the OP has already stated that they dont blame the timer but that it would be better to have more notifications because it can happen to miss it all and because emails can be lost (I never received mine either but thankfully I knew when to get bacK). In the end his biggest problem was the destruction of all his housing items and that should be a No Go.

So yes he is at fault but that does not stop SE from taking part of the blame by not providing a good tutorial ingame and it definetely does not give them a free pass for the destruction of items. And no matter if the OP is at fault or not, this could happen to more people and simple solutions could stop any cases from happening in the future. And by posting their case they maybe have brought some attention to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Yea your point is focusing on OP and putting him down while ignoring the real problem, which is that demolition is a borderline hidden feature in the game. I think you have absolutely no interest in improving anything at all. You seem far more interested in pointing fingers at OP.



Well yea because you have this idea that OP is at fault for not being paranoid enough to make sure SE didn't leave out super important things in their ui. No one should have to play like that.



I already admitted, as did OP, that this is unusual. But this doesn't excuse that SE practically hide the existence of demolition. This is akin to OP getting blamed for driving the wrong way on an unmarked one-way street. Sure as a driver he could have seen other aspects of traffic to show it was one-way, but it still doesn't excuse the lack of a clearly marked sign.

And that's the problem. With demolition there are no clearly marked signs.

---

He's still at fault. Everyone else knew. You mean to tell me everyone is wrong then? We all have our house and items. :/ Yeah SE messed up by providing a faulty system. NOONE is saying they didn't. But to turn a blind eye to the person who been here since day 1? I don't even want to hear the excuse - I didn't have a computer so I can't use google at the same time as I play- cause I don't. No computer.. only a baby PS4 and look what I'm doing. ON THE FORUMS, typing on controller and playing the game. So I don't see an excuse. He shouldn't put his game time in the title.. cause anyone who reads that and questions " Dude.. how did you miss this? " Is going to think that. And they are going to go " you should've paid attention." Cause he should've. The system SE made is already in effect so with that in mind.. he should've googled. I'm NEVER going to not think that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

He's still at fault. Everyone else knew. You mean to tell me everyone is wrong then? We all have our house and items. :/ Yeah SE messed up by providing a faulty system. NOONE is saying they didn't. But to turn a blind eye to the person who been here since day 1? I don't even want to hear the excuse - I didn't have a computer so I can't use google at the same time as I play- cause I don't. No computer.. only a baby PS4 and look what I'm doing. ON THE FORUMS, typing on controller and playing the game. So I don't see an excuse. He shouldn't put his game time in the title.. cause anyone who reads that and questions " Dude.. how did you miss this? " Is going to think that. And they are going to go " you should've paid attention." Cause he should've. The system SE made is already in effect so with that in mind.. he should've googled. I'm NEVER going to not think that way.

---

You seem to be irrationally angry at OP. Even when you are agreeing that SE messed up you are coming across as ragey.

I think we can all agree on that the house demolition timer can be added to the huge list with QOL improvements.

/end thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

You seem to be irrationally angry at OP. Even when you are agreeing that SE messed up you are coming across as ragey.

---

It's how all you guys comes accross at SE. :/ I'm not mad or anything. I'm just expressive? Maybe? I dunno. I don't know op, matter of fact he seems like a chill guy. We had a funny exchange a few pages ago about deleted post. pure lol stuff. I just don't want to fully blame SE for a user error. I'm also not fully blamingg OP. But I believe 90% of the blame is his to bare. I think this is where we disagree on. But I laid my points out there. That's my opinion on it. It's just where I stand. And hopefully thats where -Allstate- stands.