I am a raider.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
I helped people learn savage even though I knew the fights already.
No, they were not burdens to me just because they made some mistakes, died some, or confused some mechanics.
You want to know why they weren't burdens?
They appreciated the help, they wanted to put the effort in to do their best, they wanted advice to improve themselves, they were not angry and defensive if I explained mechanics or job specific assistance to them.
They wanted to get better, and they openly showed it with their words, actions, and persistence.
There is a difference between players who want to get better and players that lash out at anything that suggests they may have room for improvement.
Raiders love helping people who want to be helped. Sadly there is a lot who don't want to be helped at all even if they make the same mistake over 10+ times. Sure, you can give people room to let them try to learn on their own, but sometimes you may need a bit of help from someone else and/or an outside perspective....sadly like I said they usually don't want it despite their constant mistakes and will usually respond with insults even if the person offering the help is as polite as possible.
Also as a side note you can't expect people to always take time out of their day/lives to teach/mentor people in savage a lot. People have to be willing to try to help themselves as well...which actually a parser is something players could utilize to help themselves at least with their job rotations and practicing.
DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier
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06-01-2018, 03:33 PMMiste
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06-01-2018, 03:35 PMHoodRatBut...how can people attack you for how you feel when you didn't even elaborate on it until after the fact? O_oQuote:
Originally Posted by Issac
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06-01-2018, 03:42 PMAsiraganWait, what? To me it seemed more like encouragements. How is this rude?Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac
Even though we don't share the same point of view, I recognize the effort to take the topic back on track.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
I think that parser are not only an helping tool for people who want to better themselves, but also a tool that give you a "score" at the end of the fight, and that you always aim to do better next time.
I'll be honest, if I did not have that, the raids would feel older faster than it really does. It just give savage raids (and also ultimate for those interested) an entirely different meaning than "go in there, take stuff and get out".
Sure, there will always be toxic players. But they will be here even if parsers weren't. -
06-01-2018, 03:44 PMIssac
You're right, have at it. I'm a 4k dps and I refuse to learn from anyone. All your assumptions are true. Parsers are the devil and oh by the way, I'm clearly a troll.
Anyway. Please try to have fun while playing the game. :) Please excuse me, I have to go use the washroom because I just can't take it anymore. -
06-01-2018, 03:47 PMRiyahArpNo, they aren't. Discord doesn't do anything compared to an actual connection with an actual player on your own server. If anything discords in general have a bad rep for being houses of drama, precisely because its just randoms with no real connection to keep them civil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
There's already widespread parser availability if you do savage. Just ask the group. Making it official changes nothing, because no one is forced to use it. There's a small amount of ps4 players who can't, but if they care they ask friends who do. The raid fcs...eh, there really aren't. PF adverts tend to be single players advertising themselves for statics, not raid fcs recruiting players to teach them.Quote:
Besides which, there are plenty of raid-centric FCs...
...The parser matters a lot for calculating the best practical way to mix and match abilities, and carve forward a path for others to follow. It's an essential tool for number crunching a game so vague it doesn't even fully describe what half it's stats do.
No, but the help stuff...look, very few people are honest about things, and when they ask for changes, if they aren't honest about what they want from them it will fail. If you think raiders are nice helpful people when the reality is they are nice up to the second run and kick after, you're not going to be able to ask for effective changes. You're going to be really disappointed when the official parser comes and you still get people doing 4k dps, because you really want people to git gud and they have to be forced to, not coaxed to.Quote:
Then how am I supposed to view you, who are apparently too biased and angry at raiders to ever see another viewpoint? In a farm party is not the time to be learning your job. In a farm party is not the time to be learning the fight. In a farm party is not the place to expect to get tips on how to use a Summoner's pets. In a discord like the Balance, which is free and open for all to join, however, people are ready and willing to help at almost all hours of the day.
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06-01-2018, 03:56 PMBourne_EndeavorThere you go again with baseless assumptions about raiders and the raid community. Are you in these discords? If you were, you'd notice they all have active moderation. In fact, a friend of mine vented the horror story of her static in Xenosys' discord of all places. You know, the supposed bully discord with nothing but assholes. These "assholes" spent a good couple hours going through her logs, giving her advice both on finding a static that meets her needs better and on how to improve as a player. Sure, they meme'd on the awful PLD she had to deal with, but that didn't stop them from offering advice. Maybe if you weren't so closed minded, you might actually see raiders aren't all toxic jerks. Frankly, there are no more toxic raiders than there are toxic casuals. A parse doesn't make you a shitty person.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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06-01-2018, 04:00 PMHyoMinParkI’m curious as to why you would have to have someone actually on your server to mentor you. Why do you think that a mentor has to be on a mentee’s server to offer them advice or assistance?Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
The issue with “just ask the party” is that you can never be sure that you won’t get that one person who reports just because you post numbers, even if others were asking because they wanted to know where they stood, and numbers were posted with nothing more (i.e., no comments made about them, positive or negative). There have been a few posters in parser debates past that have blatantly admitted that they frequently report people who they even suspect are parsing. A lot of people do not share that they are because of those who would just report willy-nilly.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
I’m sure that you’ve heard of Xenosys Vex. He frequently jumps into parties just to run Savage with them. I was once in an A9S clear group (I had joined because I was dipping into Savage, and I had cleared but was still uncertain of the mechanics), and he was helping the WAR in the group (he was on DRK) learn how to tank the fight. And we were in there for quite some time, not just 2 pulls. He also joined a weekly 2 chest for Neo back when I was with my static in Deltascape, and we had several pulls with lots of sloppiness and dying. He never once said anything bad to us in the chat, and he didn’t leave until we had secured the clear.Quote:
If you think raiders are nice helpful people when the reality is they are nice up to the second run and kick after, you're not going to be able to ask for effective changes.
Sure, not everyone is going to be like that, and yes, a lot of people get frustrated. I can be one of those people (though that’s mostly when I join farm groups advertised as “fast clears, high DPS” and they end up being a phase one wipe-fest), but when I join learning parties, I generally stay until the group disbands. Even if they are extremely sloppy. I haven’t had much mind to do that lately, but I did it a lot for the HW Extremes.
I know that you cannot force players to get better, nor can you force them to care about doing so. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to tell people that there is always room for improvement, regardless of if they are purple, blue, green, or grey. I can’t control their desire for improvement, but I can certainly state that there is always an opportunity to. I just urge those players to not try and jump into harder content if they cannot commit the time and dedication to improving themselves for it.Quote:
You're going to be really disappointed when the official parser comes and you still get people doing 4k dps, because you really want people to git gud and they have to be forced to, not coaxed to.
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06-01-2018, 04:02 PMDualgunnerFCs aren't any better. Anecdotal but I've seen more "house of drama" FCs than I have Discords, and I watched the Kraut and Tea Doxxing Discord Dilemma happen. They are better equipped because the people who have the real number crunching down and understood are there; it's getting your information firsthand or secondhand from near the source, not third hand through an FC lead who may or may not understand the content himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
This has nothing to do with what I said at all. You're deflecting and I don't appreciate it, and expect better of you. In response to you saying parsers aren't important, I said they are, and outlined that the people who do the number crunching need them.Quote:
There's already widespread parser availability if you do savage. Just ask the group. Making it official changes nothing, because no one is forced to use it. There's a small amount of ps4 players who can't, but if they care they ask friends who do.
There really are. Again, you have nothing beyond "There aren't because I say so."Quote:
The raid fcs...eh, there really aren't. PF adverts tend to be single players advertising themselves for statics, not raid fcs recruiting players to teach them.
In a farm party, people are either very honest about what they want: a farm, or they're very dishonest about what they want: a carry. Yes, people can be dishonest. This leads to angry veterans who feel like they're carrying people: because in an environment where people are expecting to be able to run content repeatedly for loot, they are not wanting to teach people how to play their jobs. If you're worried about dishonesty, then keep in mind: the novice who joins a farm party without knowing the fight and/or how to play their job effectively are the actual liars in this situation, which is what leads to raiders often leaving such groups after two pulls.Quote:
No, but the help stuff...look, very few people are honest about things, and when they ask for changes, if they aren't honest about what they want from them it will fail.
In an environment where the goal is teaching people how to play, however, they are much more lenient on a lot of things.
If you think that people are joining farm parties and clear parties and are just trying to learn, you're as deluded as you think I am for thinking that raiders are human beings who have a limit on their patience but generally are good people.Quote:
If you think raiders are nice helpful people when the reality is they are nice up to the second run and kick after, you're not going to be able to ask for effective changes.
Also what effective changes are we asking for now, Riyah? -
06-01-2018, 04:14 PMRiyahArpChat rooms have had active moderation since the dawn of time. Still doesn't stop them from cliques and drama. If anything the tighter the moderation the worse the drama is when it shows up because the mod team gets so buddy buddy they circle the wagons incredibly fast. The kind of person who is a mod usually never sees the drama till its too late, and then they are honestly puzzled why everything went to crap so fast because they are part of the circle, not outside it. This is also how FCs in this game implode, too often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
As for raiders, I'm just saying this because I don't think "oh, im SOOO helpful" works for what the raider wants to accomplish, or you wouldn't be complaining so much. You are already trying the carrot, but don't want to admit it might be the stick. -
06-01-2018, 04:14 PMAsiraganMaking it official actually changes things quite a bit actually, especially about the ToS. And if you change the ToS, no one could get banned for using a third-party tool and that can change a lot how players interact with each over in a party.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
Also, if they give an in-game tool for it, it would especially be great for PS4 players, and also PC players who don't trust a third party tool. Though I don't think that they will give us a tool as thorough as FFlogs to analyse everything if they do put an in-game parser ^^'. -
06-01-2018, 04:18 PMRiyahArpThere's a big difference between some random telling me to go read the wiki, and an fc mate standing by me watching me on a dummy. Or who will start a learning party and roll healer if I'm a DPS. It's the difference between me doing it all alone and doing it with someone. If you play EVE online, they don't tell you to go to the discord, they tell you to join eve university or the militia, in game stuff, and thats a big part of that game's success.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Quote:
The issue with “just ask the party” is that you can never be sure that you won’t get that one person who reports just because you post numbers, even if others were asking because they wanted to know where they stood, and numbers were posted with nothing more (i.e., no comments made about them, positive or negative). There have been a few posters in parser debates past that have blatantly admitted that they frequently report people who they even suspect are parsing. A lot of people do not share that they are because of those who would just report willy-nilly.
...yeah, i get this. It's about needing to protect yourself. But lets just be honest with this, not cloak it in "Oh, I really want this so I can help people." I think people want this more for self-protection and the ability to kick for low dps openly. Because this isn't going to change the game positively; the amount of people who want to improve and don't already have some means of doing so are tiny. The people who report you aren't going to make use of that parser anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiragan
I was thinking on this tonight and I think the problem is that people either think savage is one of two things:Quote:
I know that you cannot force players to get better, nor can you force them to care about doing so. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to tell people that there is always room for improvement, regardless of if they are purple, blue, green, or grey. I can’t control their desire for improvement, but I can certainly state that there is always an opportunity to. I just urge those players to not try and jump into harder content if they cannot commit the time and dedication to improving themselves for it.
1. its like driving a car
2. its like learning advanced math.
One side thinks that its like driving; its something anyone can do if they just apply themselves and vow to improve. So ideas are based on this. But it might be that savage is more like math, in which that simply doesn't work for a lot of people. In which case, all the discords in the world wont help..you are going to have to accept that and if you want the class cutoff to be Cs and higher, well, you're going to have people dropping the class.
Idk. I think people kind of assume number #1 a bit too much, when something like 4k dps is like getting a D- in a very hard class.
Ah, i forgot Xeno. If the dude streams he's not doing it for you, he's doing it for himself. If he does guides and acts as a community figure, I see it as noblesse oblige. -
06-01-2018, 04:22 PMHyoMinParkThere are always alternatives to that though. You can do a few things:Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
—Your mentor can make an alt on your server just to sit and watch your rotation
—You can record footage of you on a dummy and send it to your mentor for analysis
—You can even parse yourself on a dummy (if you have access to a parser) and send the logs to your mentor to look through
While I can understand wanting the mentor-mentee relationship to be more personal, there are more alternatives than just “go read the wiki”.
As for starting learning parties, that’s why it’s good to network. Most of the people I did TsukuEx learning with were not on my server—they were friends that I have made from other servers that I play with and talk to. And one of them I have been mentoring on BRD via sharing rotations, giving advice on Foe’s and IJ optimization, making budget gearsets for them that would be ideal for BRD, and looking over their logs.
And Discord isn’t the only option—we have Cross-world Linkshells now, and while the limit is to just one with 64 people in it, it’s still a place to start. And hopefully it will be expanded on in the future. -
06-01-2018, 04:28 PMAlarayThen... make connections and try to find friends in FC's you become a part of, and try to make sure you jive with them?Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
I have plenty of in-game friends, some would stand with me by a dummy if I asked and they had time if I wanted to learn a new class or receive insight on my own to make sure I'm doing things correctly. I have friends in-game who'll go do Expert Roullette, Sigmascape normal, etc... with if asked and they have the time/energy. One of my friends sat me down and went through my previous, older, logs with me and explained a lot of things in this game to me that puzzled me before and helped me improve immensely as a player. I still have a lot of space for improvement, but it's all possible to receive what you're looking for if you put in the effort to search for it and be open about it -- you have to meet people halfway, at least, and can't just expect them to show up one day.
Personally, I don't use the discords. They're good sources of information, yes, and I am technically in the Balance but I don't often check there for information as I was quite lucky to have a few FC members who I received a lot of help from instead (by their own willingness to teach -- they're far, far better players than I am and their advice has proven invaluable).
In the same vein, I have friends who do use the Discord server. They improved and got better as well, often from looking for help and offering up their logs for people to pick through and analyze with them.
A Discord isn't useless. I don't like it due to the size and since it's a bit easier to make me uncomfortable with things due to my history, but that doesn't mean it's useless and a pointless resource to have to make use of if you wish to have a space to learn how to improve with an active desire to improve.
And, at the end of the day, I've seen plenty of discords blow up because of drama/rage/cliques. Same with FC's. Same with guilds in various other games as far back as 2005. It's not all that different in the end, unless you're in a FC of tightnit friends. -
06-01-2018, 04:31 PMDualgunnerIf FCs face the same problems that Discords do, then what is the point of you saying "FCs should be used over Discord!"?Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
It seems more likely to me that maybe you just don't want to admit there's more to a raider than raiding.Quote:
As for raiders, I'm just saying this because I don't think "oh, im SOOO helpful" works for what the raider wants to accomplish, or you wouldn't be complaining so much. You are already trying the carrot, but don't want to admit it might be the stick.
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06-01-2018, 05:03 PMAsiraganQuote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
No, I'm not nice enough to say "I really want this to help people", I'll be honest. And I'm actually quite bad at teaching others anyway.
If I parse, it's for myself and for my statics, since I'm the one doing the upload on FFlogs. So that I can better myself, or see if I had a better "score" than during the last time.
Actually, I never Pug for party as I prefer to go with my static, even for primals. Not that I disregard the people outside of it, but I'm not that comfortable with strangers, to say the truth.
My point is that when you find yourself in a party made by the party finder, whether it's for 24-man raid and such, sometimes people just end up leaving without saying a word. Or just kicking with the other person not even knowing what happened. Because they can't tell them. And if the person doesn't know that he's actually performing poorly, how do you want him to improve anyway?
The "funny" thing is that sometimes people are calling other "bad at dps" while they don't use a parser and don't see that they're actually the one dragging down the group...
And I really don't think that this is healthy for the community at all. -
06-01-2018, 05:22 PMRiyahArpIt isn't the same really. Because its all one sided. If they are there, it works both ways, you help them and they you. But with them off server, its they help you only, and the cynic in me says and has seen that it only lasts as long as they enjoy it. You need that parity.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
As for networking, again it doesn't replace it being on your server. I know they are trying to push a semi-serverless model more these days, but just the fact you can only meet in instances makes it more of an appointment model than anything
I think people would be a lot meaner if they knew. It becomes personal. If people avoid you for no reason, its saddening, but if they tell you they are because you have an annoying laugh, that will always be in the back of your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiragan
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06-01-2018, 05:31 PMSebazyThere are a number of up and coming FCs all over the place and the unfortunate truth is that they are rarely a good environment to raid because their membership tends to be volatile. Not through drama or such, but rather they tend to be used as a stepping stone into the server's top rung raiding FCs. They are a fun place to be usually, but keeping a consistent and stable team going can be tough.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
This is typically why discords such as the balance tend to be the better way to go. Even the forums here are actually pretty decent if you push the drama and assumptions aside TBH. Remember when Judge was giving me some tip top advice and tips on how to up my DPS in A12S without taking too many risks with my healing in Pugs? That little lot got me close to purple whilst still doing 95%+ healing in completely random PF groups.
Friendly and useful advice is out there and there's plenty of ways to get it, the way this community is means that you need to make the first step and ask for it though. If I help a group and they are using a wonky inefficient strat that's causing then I'll absolutely voice it. If I see someone doing something stupid on an individual level then chances are I won't (Case in point, the WHM I was in a Tsu farm with a few days ago, not a single regen, 11+ cure IIIs. Hard work) because so many are either flat out disinterested or worse, will actively take offence at anything. I see it as being easier to just carry the load myself. If someone asks and wants advice, I'll merrily help where I can though and I'm certainly not alone here.
TLDR, pushing the blame for this divide on the 'raiders' isn't really fair, it's everyone's fault as a whole. -
06-01-2018, 06:06 PMKaivaC
26 pages? Wow. I dunno what all had been discussed since I removed all references to Kaiva, and frankly, that’s not the reason I came back for a moment. Look, quite simply, the title was supposed to include question marks – I dunno how the hell I forgot to include them. Again, I apologize for all this drama that I have caused – maybe you guys delved into something else, but ultimately, it was my thread that created the space for whatever the conflict currently is. It is my fault, and I wholly apologize to the FF community. As I’ve said before, I’ve made some changes so that a lot of you guys won’t have to get involved with issues that I inadvertently caused by a bad posting, and I have made changes so that you won’t have to worry about dealing with me in-game either. Whether you accept my apology or not, there it is. Sorry for starting this thread.
*bows head in apology* -
06-01-2018, 06:14 PMShadowHunterrXDont be so dramatic.... sometimes you need to kick the bucket to move forward. Even it isnt in a good way.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
Why drama because people have a argument ? I rather see people fight it out with different opinions ( sadly some with personal attacks ) then people only agree with each other and creating a big echo chamber. Which is even more useless. -
06-01-2018, 06:24 PMKaivaC
Because simply, I feel like I have been associated with saying the title of this thread – which was definitely not my attempt, and my attempts to defend what I wanted to convey made it seem more like a toxic elitist. I wouldn’t call my actions being dramatic, I just did what I felt was right – hence why I’m going through such pains to delete/hide myself. I don’t want nobody with bad feelings affecting me outside of an argument in this thread. Didn’t intend for this to turn into a now-27 page debate, and because of this drawn out fight, I feel quite guilty about it because I failed to communicate my thoughts properly. Those side arguments, nothing I can really do about that – but taking the blame for this elitist post and removing myself from social circles is the least I can do for causing all this drama in the first place.
Say what you will about me, but at the very least, I am acknowledging that I am totally in the wrong and hopefully, the situation in my original post has been rectified. Hopefully. If not…well, there’s not much else I can do. -
06-01-2018, 06:41 PMAsiraganMeh, I don't know about the laugh part, but dps, healing and tanking are things you can work on to better yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
Bourne_Endeavor said something to the other guy that I found quite right :
Yeah, even the guy who get 100% perf in each fight started somewhere, by the first quest, without having a clue about what "theorycraft" could mean. "Skills" is not something that you are born with. Unlike the strange laugh, I guess (not sure about that, but that's a different topic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
Hell, when I started back in WoW, I was so bad it was almost laughable. I had absolutely no clue about whatever I was doing, and I was getting yelled at a lot. It took me years to reach a somewhat decent level, seriously ^^'.
What I mean is, sometimes people need to be pushed a little so that they learn that they are bad, and then proceed to better themselves. It is most certainly not a pleasant experience, but it will help them standing by themselves, and enhance their gaming experience in the end.
Letting them go in blissful ignorance is not what I would consider "kindness".
Now then, it's not sunshine and rainbows either. Of course there will be assholes that, instead of pushing other to better themselves, will utterly destroy the newbie and even make them stop the game in worst case. But those guys will be there even without an official parser anyway. It's up to the players to make a good community.
Look, I know that, for whatever reasons, you feel sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
B-but that doesn't mean you have to roll a lalafell for that. There's a limit to self punishment! :'( -
06-01-2018, 06:46 PMShadowHunterrXQuote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
People make mistakes and when you are in frustration mode you will say things you normally wont say.Everybody has that problem more then ones in there life.
If you read the last few pages people already moved on and discussing about it with pro's and con's. You started in a bad noot, but triggered a usefull discussion.
Nobody will hunt you down for years because this. Most people wil forget it fast anyway. You worry wayyyy too much.
( Your Au ra was much cuter ;) ) -
06-01-2018, 08:06 PMAwhaPlease do not take this the wrong way, while I enjoy a good self deprecating post as much as the next person you take it to a whole new level. Not sure why for whatever reason you feel the need to apologize for something that from what I can tell no one attacked you directly, maybe others disagree with you, but overall your apology is utterly pointless since you have nothing you need to apologize for.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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06-01-2018, 08:13 PMMaekaHe/She feels understandably guilty about starting a thread where the ugliest of behaviors rise up and people start clawing and biting at each other like rabid dogs. It's not too uncommon to feel regret when you accidentally start heated arguments between two or more other people, even if you yourself don't get sucked into said argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
No, it's not the OP's fault that certain people decided to take their aggression/frustration out in an all out tit-for-tat in this thread, but yet the OP feels guilty all the same that it happened. I can understand that.
And really that one dude a few pages back was getting absolutely ridiculous. I won't name names, but sheesh. -
06-01-2018, 08:40 PMMinako_Nightsong
I went back tonight and did some more Tsukuyomi SSS dummy and had the following numbers. I gave each job a few attempts. I cleared the challenge on several jobs.
Bard 361 4400-4550 I am just beating the dummy so I "qualify" lol.
RDM 352 4900-5200
DRG 361 4900
I still do not know why the bard numbers are where they are. I can honestly say I have pulled off the opener consistently well and clip nothing, get in my ogcds, and maintain my dots and song transitions. I meld into crit-dh with grade 6 materia.
Point is, not all of us are lazy or doing an ice mage rotation, we are trying real hard! :p -
06-01-2018, 09:04 PMRemusIf you are trying hard and still trying to improve then people don't have any problems. The problem people have is those who choose to not learn and not improve. Honestly Bard is a pretty hard class when it comes to maximising DPS. I don't know if you know it already but I would recommend you go the Balance Discord, just search for it on Google. They have a bard channel there which you can register for and chances there they have guides on rotations and everything that you may need to know when it comes to increasing your dps as a Bard and you can ask any questions you may have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong
Different bosses have different requirements when it comes to DPS. Even though you won't be doing Savage I still recommend trying out the dummy for it and see how you do against it. Also in Stone, Sky, Sea the dummy is basically altered to match your class. So the dummy you fight is tailored to Bard while a different dummy could have more HP tailored to Black Mage or Samurai. -
06-01-2018, 09:54 PMIrisdina_WilohI imagine without a Drg, it can be quite hard to beat the dummies for relevant content on Bard/Mch unless you're close to/have bis since you lose so much damage from not having one. I find if I practice on Drg and don't have anyone to tether to, I also lose a fair chunk of damage and the same for Mnk, no party members so no potential procs from Brotherhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong
Remus is also right too, different dummies are catered to do the different jobs so don't think on it too hard, you're doing a fine job. -
06-01-2018, 09:55 PMBourne_EndeavorCase in point, HyoMin and I had a Samurai laugh at us, claiming we "sucked" and to get out of his Tsuki party. DPS was approximately....Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiragan
Hyo: 5,000
Me: 3,900 (was left dead on the floor for almost a minute)
WAR: 3,600
SAM: 3,100
DRG: 2.600
See the problem there? Oh, the DRG didn't die either. And this is what annoys me with "parsers are just toxic players" argument. Clearly, the SAM wasn't parsing yet felt he was carrying the party. Worst part about it? They were both wearing i350-370 gear.
You lacked a DRG, which is basically 300 flat DPS. Bard is also a heavily prog based job, thus it can be very difficult to consistently kill those dummies. If you don't get enough Refulgent Arrows or Pitch Perfect IIIs, you aren't going to do the damage you should. Regardless, trying really hard is all most people ask. Unfortunately, plenty think even asking that of them is being an "elitist."Quote:
Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong
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06-02-2018, 12:11 AMMageBlackThanks! I like to think I can be reasonable, when provoked.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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06-02-2018, 02:49 AMMaero
While i have not really encountered many, by the sounds of it there is many Sam's that think they are oh so high up when in fact are lower dps plus bring Zero utility. Perhaps they themselves should reflect on that fact, lol
I have also seen some Sam's do 6K, but i guess it is always the ones that do the lower dmg that comment about others...
3,100 for Tsuki is rather low, i did more then that on my Red Mage so that Sam was bad by the sounds of it @ Bourne_Endeavor -
06-02-2018, 03:14 AMLunaxia
I can't believe this is still going. Wow.
I like how several posters managed to post entire paragraphs of assumptions they pulled out of their ass from this single statement, ranging from condescending to downright hostile, then somehow manage to blame the guy for "not elaborating" instead of actually admitting it to the point of griefing him out of the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac
Tremendous. A+. -
06-02-2018, 03:29 AMMoroMurasakiAlmost as if people respond to condescending, passive-agressive comments unfavorably :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Honestly, is asking for an elaboration on something so vague (as this thread has spanned a myriad of topics at this point) really 'griefing'? I don't think so. -
06-02-2018, 03:30 AMJellybumsIn a garbage tier thread, really? Like indirectly telling people you're not good enough so join this group if you don't wanna be looked down on? Not everyone's stuck up. Not everyone gears up like a pro and plays like one or even geared the best at all. Because guess what, not everyone can sink hours into this game or stay subbed all the time. And this thread slick shames people who can't keep up just because you want them to adjust their gameplay to your benefit. What's in it for them? To be spared the shame? How motivating. No wonder there are folks who resist just to resist. You don't see that? You may mean well but if you're not doing/saying things right, your message gets lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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06-02-2018, 03:33 AMAwhaAs you said it is not the OP's fault that people will be people. Maybe I am alone in this but I do feel that apologizing for the sake of apologizing is pointless and silly. It is a topic on the forums sure they got forgot a question mark in the title, but most people reading the thread outside a handful of people could have easily see what they intent was with the thread. The OP has no reason in my eyes to feel they have to bare the weight of the actions caused by a thread they started on a forum. I do not know how to word it but when people apologize for no reason (not saying this is what the OP is doing) gives me a feeling as if they are trying garner pity or simply make it about them. When outside the topic being started the OP has very little do with the direction the thread went.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
In the end they are apologizing for the actions of others who went off handle and blaming themselves. To a degree that is kind of sad, for what reason do they have to bare that burden. -
06-02-2018, 03:36 AMNariel
As a "average to not that bad" BRD, I think the most important thing is not that much about how much you can pull out at X moment but rather about if you want to improving yourself.
And personaly I think "below 4k floor mop" deserve their trash medal as much as a "6k5 bragging about it all day" player.
The best solution would be a personal parsing tool, that just calculate your DpS and don't tell you what the other do, for your self improvement, with why not a lodestone sheet to see your 10-20 last parse to analyse them like the FFXIV log site does.
The tool could be active only on those "boos pouch" but without your friends nor boss mecanic you can't really tell how much you do in real condition... So not that great. -
06-02-2018, 03:37 AMMoroMurasakiLets be honest - this thread hasn't been about Kaiva's original post for quite some time. People brought up the subject of optimization in relation to relative damage output and The Balance is a great resource to get started on optimizing your play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellybums
If you want to ignore that entire aspect of gameplay go right ahead but don't expect people who do put in that effort to cater to you or not talk about their interests when the conversation suits it.
You're 100% wrong- Kaiva is in no way responsible for your actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
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06-02-2018, 03:43 AMLunaxiaThe comment wasn't directed at anyone and could have meant anything. What you choose to read into it doesn't warrant that sort of response.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
No, it isn't. But that isn't what happened. -
06-02-2018, 03:44 AMLinx0r
My issue with OP’s topic is the labelling. You don’t need to classify players as garbage. In this game, you don’t need to be a top dps player or whatever to be classified as a ‘good player’. This definition will fluctuate as we are all individuals and our perspectives are unique. Personally, a good player is someone who is enjoying themselves and helps people and listens to others. Good player = good person. To me that’s more important than someone doing dps. Yes there are talented people but don’t go calling people who aren’t as talented ‘garbage’ . That’s just a trashy analogy
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06-02-2018, 03:45 AMalimdiaBard is a special case, it's 100% impossible to get accurate numbers when bard is so proc dependent, between piercing resistance debuff and crit buffs from drg/sch your DPS can change drastically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong
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06-02-2018, 03:50 AMMoroMurasakiMakes sense that you would defend someone employing the "vague rudeness" strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Birds of a feather...