Can we please get more cool looking outfits for male characters?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Let's hope the Live Letter addresses our concerns... :p

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Dont worry you still can buy that Shiva statue to get the expensive emote or can be stepped on by the Yotsuyu minion. :P That important right? And both are totally gender neutral!

(Yes I am a bit annoyed that merchandise always takes such a big part in the liveletter...>_>)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Dont worry you still can buy that Shiva statue to get the expensive emote or can be stepped on by the Yotsuyu minion. :P That important right? And both are totally gender neutral!

(Yes I am a bit annoyed that merchandise always takes such a big part in the liveletter...>_>)

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They do seem to spend a lot of time pushing merchandise these days. I'm a little disappointed that so little time was actually spent showing off content - but I suppose they're saving the bulk of that for next month's Live Letter.

Running through the RDM questline and without too much context, I thought this gem was relevant to this thread:

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Originally Posted by Sketches of Divinity

(The pages contain incredibly detailed pictures of female deities in various stages of undress. No male divinities appear to be included in this collection...)

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Running through the RDM questline and without too much context, I thought this gem was relevant to this thread:

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Obviously the male deities should have their own collection...though considering how most of the females tend to be cute and humanoid, and the male ones tend to be monsterous...I'm sure there's a market for that, but it's probably a highly specialized one.

Maybe the men of the Eorzean Alliance should do a tasteful calendar to fundraise though. I'd definitely go for something like that. (I'm picturing a physical calendar on the SE store with a bonus in-game housing item that you can interact with the change the page/picture XD)

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Obviously the male deities should have their own collection...though considering how most of the females tend to be cute and humanoid, and the male ones tend to be monsterous...I'm sure there's a market for that, but it's probably a highly specialized one.

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https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20170201164916

It's so strange considering they made THIS FFXV Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20170201164916

It's so strange considering they made THIS FFXV Ifrit.

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Whoa! He’s pretty....



HOT * wheeze laugh *

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Obviously the male deities should have their own collection...though considering how most of the females tend to be cute and humanoid, and the male ones tend to be monsterous...I'm sure there's a market for that, but it's probably a highly specialized one.

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For what its worth, Oschon and Thaliak are both depicted as pretty handsome dudes on their respective AST cards!

also I wish their pvp outfits were a little closer to their outfits on the cards. Ladies could have kept the croptop and my male healing alts would perpetually have one (nonexistent) nipple out ;w;

I will say this, tho hard to see, my guy's nipples eo get rendered. Made me happy one accidental zoom in when I ran the DoW coliseum set

Wish they would add more Grand Company gear for all roles. Perhaps even some new weapons and bardings.

The devs like cute girls and clearly spend a lot of resources designing gear for them. Nothing wrong with that. I really enjoy dressing up my female characters.
But they feel uncomfortable designing sexy gear for male characters and they're not really interested in them so, females get more outfits, male gear is made unisex to cater to us even more and even major male npcs can end up wearing generic gear that's available in-game...
I'm gobsmacked. Personal preference shouldn't be used as an excuse to ignore half your players.

One of the things that attracted me to this franchise was the jaw-droppingly beautiful men. I'd like to dress up my male alts. I might even have chosen a male main if the glamour options hadn't been so limited. I find it sad that this game started out treating male and female characters pretty much the same and has gradually slipped towards the usual bias you see everywhere else.

For some reason I assumed a thread titled "cool male outfits" would be people asking for more than slutty outfits. By all means, add the male bunny outfit, but please add options for people that don't want revealing clothing when they play either gender.

And also why are so few outfits added to the mogstation dyeable?

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Originally Posted by Grey-Satyr

For some reason I assumed a thread titled "cool male outfits" would be people asking for more than slutty outfits. By all means, add the male bunny outfit, but please add options for people that don't want revealing clothing when they play either gender.

And also why are so few outfits added to the mogstation dyeable?

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There are people who've asked for more options in general, like slightly modified versions of what the girls get instead of more boring pants and robes. Or just not having gender locks at all going forward since we can already run around in speedos, skirts, fancy hats, etc. ... The bunny outfit is more of a rallying point since it was promised to be delivered to us years ago but has yet to be mentioned in any communications from SE. In my mind it's the ultimate symbol of the inequality in this game. I'd never wear it, but I want it for the principle of the matter. Male fashion is so much more than the boring pants, robes, and unisex "cool" armour we find ourselves with.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

There are people who've asked for more options in general, like slightly modified versions of what the girls get instead of more boring pants and robes. Or just not having gender locks at all going forward since we can already run around in speedos, skirts, fancy hats, etc. ... The bunny outfit is more of a rallying point since it was promised to be delivered to us years ago but has yet to be mentioned in any communications from SE. In my mind it's the ultimate symbol of the inequality in this game. I'd never wear it, but I want it for the principle of the matter. Male fashion is so much more than the boring pants, robes, and unisex "cool" armour we find ourselves with.

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I personally want more outfits from FF protagonists. Especially Noctis:

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/...tis1_thumb.jpg

But more options in general for different looks and styles are needed for male characters. You have so much more freedom with female characters to mix and match armor and make something that looks great, but I feel so limited as a male

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Originally Posted by Grey-Satyr

For some reason I assumed a thread titled "cool male outfits" would be people asking for more than slutty outfits. By all means, add the male bunny outfit, but please add options for people that don't want revealing clothing when they play either gender.

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Because devs are, for whatever reason, afraid of sexy guys, its visually obvious that our characters are lacking in sexy clothes. For nearly every remotely sexy set the females get, if guys get a counterpart its shirt + generic pants set # 9183.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Because devs are, for whatever reason, afraid of sexy guys, its visually obvious that our characters are lacking in sexy clothes. For nearly every remotely sexy set the females get, if guys get a counterpart its shirt + generic pants set # 9183.

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They don't have problems with sexy guys. They assume people want outfits for males that are quite feminine or very flamboyant by default, and that might be a level where they might said 'We (the artist team) don't think we would enjoy/have fun making them." to the devs, and they went with it. The target audience for such outfits might have been too small to be considered putting something serious together as well here.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

They don't have problems with sexy guys. They assume people want outfits for males that are quite feminine or very flamboyant by default, and that might be a level where they might said 'We (the artist team) don't think we would enjoy/have fun making them." to the devs, and they went with it. The target audience for such outfits might have been too small to be considered putting something serious together as well here.

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There have been many times I didn't enjoy parts of my job. Sometimes you just do things because it's what you were hired for...
Needless to say, 'we wouldn't have fun doing it' is a very weak excuse

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

There have been many times I didn't enjoy parts of my job. Sometimes you just do things because it's what you were hired for...
Needless to say, 'we wouldn't have fun doing it' is a very weak excuse

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If you're the average joe in a fast food chain flipping burgers, no one cares if you don't have fun on your job, since you're a easily replacable cog if you decide to quit or get fired.
It's different when you're a known artist in a recognizable gaming company on a working mmo title, though. People there actually consider your words and concerns, and perhaps even indulge on your requests if something isn't okay with certain options.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

If you're the average joe in a fast food chain flipping burgers, no one cares if you don't have fun on your job, since you're a easily replacable cog if you decide to quit or get fired.
It's different when you're a known artist in a recognizable gaming company on a working mmo title, though. People there actually consider your words and concerns, and perhaps even indulge on your requests if something isn't okay with certain options.

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You honestly think a digital artist isn't replaceable? Either you are naive or delusional.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

You honestly think a digital artist isn't replaceable? Either you are naive or delusional.

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Nice, insulting now since you can't do better?

In the end, it doesn't matter - The devs accepted the whatever reasons they were given by the artists and that's all you will get for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

If you're the average joe in a fast food chain flipping burgers, no one cares if you don't have fun on your job, since you're a easily replacable cog if you decide to quit or get fired.
It's different when you're a known artist in a recognizable gaming company on a working mmo title, though. People there actually consider your words and concerns, and perhaps even indulge on your requests if something isn't okay with certain options.

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No. If we were speaking about an indie company, then this would be true but we are talking about a AAA company. Their goal first and foremost is to make money. A happy customer is a paying customer. But there are many unhappy customers because of their "uncomfy feefees" so they are flat out losing money.

This is not Final Hot Girl XIV. It's Final Fantasy - a series that has historically had attractive, well-dressed men and a game which has a very large female fanbase that also have money to spend.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

They don't have problems with sexy guys. They assume people want outfits for males that are quite feminine or very flamboyant by default, and that might be a level where they might said 'We (the artist team) don't think we would enjoy/have fun making them." to the devs, and they went with it. The target audience for such outfits might have been too small to be considered putting something serious together as well here.

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But... this is Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy is somehow famous for its very awesome looking male characters. In fact, there are many awesome male armours in this game (including those that show skin), the kind of style that you can't really find in most other MMORPGs. I never had the feeling that males are forgotten in this game, on the contrary! Males get tons of fashionable and daring outfits O_O

I understand the lack of a bunny male counterpart can be frustrating, but to say that devs don't care or don't enjoy designing nice clothes for males is quite an stretch. Or at least this is my opinion as a het female who is tired of Korean games where females get tons of attention and males never get cool outfits. FFXIV is the only game that has my needs well covered in that sense *laughs*.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

They don't have problems with sexy guys.

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Except they do?
Girls get short shorts, guys get pants
Girls get undies, guys get pants
Girls get leggings, guys get pants
Girls get coat with cutouts, guys get regular coat (and pants!)
There is so little sex appeal in most male outfits.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I never had the feeling that males are forgotten in this game, on the contrary! Males get tons of fashionable and daring outfits O_O

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Yes, I too am impressed by baggy pants #2891! Can't wait for 5.0's AF4s - where ladies get unique skirt/shoes and my character gets even more pants :)

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Nice, insulting now since you can't do better?

In the end, it doesn't matter - The devs accepted the whatever reasons they were given by the artists and that's all you will get for the time being.

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I could have sworn it was mentioned somewhere that it made them (male artists/dev's) uncomfortable to design/implement "sexy" style outfits for male characters. Don't quote me on that though, I'm trying to find the source. :O

Also, and I know I'm going to get run over by the hate train here, but I don't really want to see overly flamboyant guys running around in bunny costumes and such. It's bad enough with the big male roes and the metallic pig costumes.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Yes, I too am impressed by baggy pants #2891! Can't wait for 5.0's AF4s - where ladies get unique skirt/shoes and my character gets even more pants :)

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Most of the time, the sets are exactly the same and girls get the same trousers. Most of the long skirts are the same for males too (and I don't think I know any other game where males have such a collection of skirts to wear). We have tons of sets in this game and very few offer real variation from male to female. And it's not like that variation in some sets is even bad, as it's not SE's fault that girls tend to wear more variety than males irl. You can't force the majority of males to wear mini skirts just because a very small minority wants that, and you can't force female characters to never wear mini skirts or very feminine clothing just because a very small minority will complain about the sets being different.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

I could have sworn it was mentioned somewhere that it made them (male artists/dev's) uncomfortable to design/implement "sexy" style outfits for male characters. Don't quote me on

that though, I'm trying to find the source. :O

Also, and I know I'm going to get run over by the hate train here, but I don't really want to see overly flamboyant guys running around in bunny costumes and such. It's bad enough with the big male roes and the metallic pig costumes.

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I've heard that artist being uncomfortable thing too. Which begs the questions where are the female artists and why does designing "sexy" armor for guys make the male artists uncomfortable... but sticking the guys in dresses 90% of the time doesn't? Male armor options don't need to be sexy per se, they just need to be more masculine and for Hydalen's sake they need to have more options that aren't friggin dresses.

I'm a big fan of RuPaul's Drag Race but that doesn't mean 90% of the armor males get should be suitable to wear on the show. I want to fight bad guys, save the world, and look like a badass while I do it, not work the runway for the judges.

And that whole "artist uncomfortable" line is BS anyways. There ARE good looking male armor options in the game already that aren't pseudo-dresses. The problem is they are very few and far between and half of them are race/class/job locked.

If the artists managed to power through their uncomfortableness to make this:

https://i.imgur.com/FjmSO5Z.jpg

they can certainly do it again and more frequently and make some of them usable by all classes/jobs/races. I want more stuff like the above for the body slot. Not pseudo-dress/robe/longcoat #267921230

I'm less concerned about flamboyant bunny boys than I am about having badass body slot options that aren't another robe/dress. Sexy on males isn't necessarily about being flamboyant or showing tons of skin.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

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This isn't irl. When I ride the subway I am not likely going to see anyone in a chainmail bikini regardless of gender, and if I did I'd be pretty shocked regardless of what bits they possessed.

I don't need ever skanky female set to have a 1:1 male counterpart, but if "sexy wizard" is the theme and one set is a unique revealing coat and panties while the other is a regular coat and pants that look near interchangeable with dungeon drops, you can kinda tell which set got a liiiiiitle more thought put into it, no?

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Also, and I know I'm going to get run over by the hate train here, but I don't really want to see overly flamboyant guys running around in bunny costumes and such. It's bad enough with the big male roes and the metallic pig costumes.

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The person with the catgirl butt sig doesn't like scantly clad men. Shocking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I don't need ever skanky female set to have a 1:1 male counterpart, but if "sexy wizard" is the theme and one set is a unique revealing coat and panties while the other is a regular coat and pants that look near interchangeable with dungeon drops, you can kinda tell which set got a liiiiiitle more thought put into it, no?

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On a side note... as a female character, I'd rather have more pants/shorts options and less "pants turn into mini skirt on females that's so short our hoohaa's hang out". I don't know if that really equates to "more thought" put into the gear vs. a gender stereotype in general. -__-;

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The person with the catgirl butt sig doesn't like scantly clad men. Shocking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I didn't say I didn't like scantily glad men. I said I'd rather not have male characters running around in things like a male version of the bunny costume; that's just my personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

-snip-

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We're not asking for females to wear pants... or men to wear skirts... Simply just asking for variation and as much thought put into our gear as women.
Take a look at BRD AF gear. Women get a unique skirt and males get... pants. Take a look at WHM AF gear! Women get a unique skirt and men get... pants. How cool! I also cannot wait for females to get Yotsuyu's kimono while males get the recolored Woad gear! Take a look at dungeon gear. It's all designed for women and clearly copy and pasted onto men because the artists at SE get the gay if they look at a male model too long. Take a look at the Valentione's gear. Females get something completely unique while men get recolored CUL gear. Heck, take a look at the Rabanastre NPCs. The girl gets a unique dress (that is quite lovely I hope we get it sometime) while Ramza wears level 60 gear already in game.
Need I go on?

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Also, and I know I'm going to get run over by the hate train here, but I don't really want to see overly flamboyant guys running around in bunny costumes and such. It's bad enough with the big male roes and the metallic pig costumes.

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Me neither. I'm a lesbian. I don't wanna see naked men as much as the next dude, but I do want to play dress up with my char just as much as all the cat girls. Besides, it's not your or my place to dictate what other people wear. If setting the precedent for clothing freedom means that eventually I'll get more smart jackets and suits and less dresses copied and pasted from the women, then let it rain naked Roe Bros and thot cat boys.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I don't need ever skanky female set to have a 1:1 male counterpart, but if "sexy wizard" is the theme and one set is a unique revealing coat and panties while the other is a regular coat and pants that look near interchangeable with dungeon drops, you can kinda tell which set got a liiiiiitle more thought put into it, no?

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But that's what I meant, I don't think there's more thought put into one outfit over the other; that you might have a personal preference for one doesn't make the other less good.

Using the Saints Wake wolf attire as an example, some people complained (perhaps it was in this thread) that females got "the better" outfit because they got a mini skirt and high boots, while males got trousers and short boots. But the thing is that both outfits are cool and equally good, and both are adapted to what many males and many females wear. As I said, you can't force every male player to dress his character in a mini skirt with high boots for Saints Wake, because that's not what the vast majority of them wants to wear.

Yet with all this, males still do have many feminine and cute looking gear in this game. Surely it's not as bad as some people are trying to paint it?

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

On a side note... as a female character, I'd rather have more pants/shorts options and less "pants turn into mini skirt on females that's so short our hoohaa's hang out". I don't know if that really equates to "more thought" put into the gear vs. a gender stereotype in general. -__-;

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I mean "thought" as the effort that went into planning the set. Instead of recoloring/tweaking some existing pants, someone thought up a new skirt/shorts/undies, drew it on a character model, then went about adding it in game. It takes more thought to make a new set then colorswap something old and call it a day.
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...4dad07856a.png

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Yet with all this, males still do have many feminine and cute looking gear in this game. Surely it's not as bad as some people are trying to paint it?

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The wolf sets I was fine with, as they were both equally ugly lol

But in all seriousness, as someone with 4 male characters and 4 female characters, I am telling you that male clothes in this game feel incredibly limited regardless if Im going for sexy or simply fashionable. Compared to the average Korean MMO it might feel different (I came form TERA, the later years were painful), but as this isn't a F2P Korean MMO it shouldn't be compared to a F2P Korean MMO. If it was F2P I would totally understand why gals get all the good costumes - they need to make money off ~something~, but everyone here is paying around $15 a month. My male and female characters should both be bedazzled to the stars for that.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

But that's what I meant, I don't think there's more thought put into one outfit over the other; that you might have a personal preference for one doesn't make the other less good.

Using the Saints Wake wolf attire as an example, some people complained (perhaps it was in this thread) that females got "the better" outfit because they got a mini skirt and high boots, while males got trousers and short boots. But the thing is that both outfits are cool and equally good, and both are adapted to what many males and many females wear. As I said, you can't force every male player to dress his character in a mini skirt with high boots for Saints Wake, because that's not what the vast majority of them wants to wear.

Yet with all this, males still do have many feminine and cute looking gear in this game. Surely it's not as bad as some people are trying to paint it?

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It's not about having more feminine gear, really. Like Rokke's been saying, it's equality in what we do get. I made a post a little while back in Lukha's thread about how much of an afterthought designing gear for guys is in this game. Here are the pictures...

Note the character on the far left wearing the maxi dress:
https://imgur.com/pz1vAmL
https://imgur.com/pz1vAmL

And this is the same set, for guys:
https://imgur.com/p4MaIGT
https://imgur.com/p4MaIGT

That's not equality in the slightest. Girls got a cute brand-new themed maxi dress and guys got a re-coloured crafting set sans pants. If it had been the other way around with guys getting the cool new thing and girls getting some incomplete recolour, do you think you would have been okay with that? Especially if it kept happening over and over again?

I loved XIV back in 2.0 because it wasn't like the pandering Korean MMOs I had tried. There were no gender restrictions on races, everyone wore the same stuff with minor differences, and there were equal quantities of gear for everyone- sexy, cute, cool, bad-ass, whatever gear was in the game existed for everybody and had matching counterparts for both genders. Then after the glamour system was implemented, things slowly began to creep towards what we see today. Over time females got an outfit here, an outfit there with no comparable male equivalent. It's come to the point where if you want quality AND quantity, you should play female characters. That shouldn't be.

It's easy to see for most of the people posting ITT that female gear gets the majority of the design love and attention from SE's devs. Whether or not girls have more variety IRL isn't a factor in this, really- SE just says "look at this cute outfit we made for the girls! Oh. What should we do for the guys?" and the answer is almost always 1) plain pants/shirt 2) don't adapt it at all. Do you know how hard it is to find shorts as a guy? Just shorts, coming above the knee, that can be worn by any job/race. It's way harder than it should be, considering how versatile they are. I feel like if SE really had people on top of this who cared they'd realise that shorts are a thing they can use sometimes. And if there are super feminine tops they can't adapt, guys... can go shirtless! We could use more stuff like the South Seas Talisman that add body paint instead. Edda's frilly gothic dress could have been adapted into a gothic suit for men. Lyse's outfit could remove the strip of cloth covering her boobs and lengthen the shorts. And so on. They just choose not to put the work in to make things equal.

We're not asking for girls to get less stuff or for all guys to be forced to "wear mini skirts and high boots". We're asking for SE to stop being lazy with our designs. If girls are getting a unique outfit that hasn't existed previously, we should too. Or at least equally flip-flop between who gets the special new stuff if resources are too strained to do two new things at once. We're paying customers too.

Male characters never have gear that looks good in them and females always have gear that looks good on them. And that's because all gear is made on female models first then copy/pasted or slightly changed to fit male. These kinds of items include 90% of Magic gear and some DoW gear. Meaning that men, especially magic-users, don't even have gear for men to wear. Only unisex. That's why everything looks so feminine on males meaning no options for males.

The only gear that looks good on males is gear that is genderlocked to male... sadly. Because that gear is made to be just for men(like the various suits). Sad fact is though that the devs aren't making genderlocked gear for males anymore FOR FREE in-game. Yet females have sets upon sets of female-locked gear. Most of what all female characters wear is female locked gear it feels like and that's not a coincidence. Female-locked gear is made for just female. And even the unisex gear is initially made for female.. Problem is, males don't get that same treatment ever.

There are a few cases of gear pieces that are made specifically for male bodies but are made unisex. And I mean straight up for men but still able to be worn as female(Males don't have that same luxury)


Noct Lurica
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...a32fab0c2b.jpg

Jacket of the Falling Dragon
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...80259b895b.jpg

Warrior's Cuirass
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...bc95933833.jpg

Females can wear both of those with zero alterations to the look. So it's ridiculous that males can't do it with female gear.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

We're not asking for girls to get less stuff or for all guys to be forced to "wear mini skirts and high boots". We're asking for SE to stop being lazy with our designs. If girls are getting a unique outfit that hasn't existed previously, we should too. Or at least equally flip-flop between who gets the special new stuff if resources are too strained to do two new things at once. We're paying customers too.

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Um, I'm sorry, I just can't share the same view of females getting better things than males in this game, as I'm too in love with tons of the outfits males have (>_<) Believe me, this is a matter that has bothered me greatly in every other game I've played, and I'm the first one to complain. I just don't feel that way in FFXIV; I think that both males and females get very nice things.

The Saints Wake samples you gave are both modified versions of crafter gears. The female one was modified into having a skirt, a detail you can't add to the male one because the majority of males don't want to wear skirts (as I mentioned, it's not SE's fault that male fashion is a bit less versatile than female one when it comes to skirts/trousers). The bottom part is supposed to be chosen by you in both the male and the female case, which makes them the same. For the record, I happen to like the male version of that outfit more than the female one *falls over*.

So I don't know, I really don't get the impression that male designs are being made carelessly or have less thought poured into them. FFXIV males look extremely good to me @_@; (just my opinion, though)

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I really don't get the impression that male designs are being made carelessly or have less thought poured into them. FFXIV males look extremely good to me @_@; (just my opinion, though)

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If you play a male character you'll understand pretty quickly how it is. We have good options. But we don't have as many as females (you guys really do have sheer quantity on us), or in as many possible varieties as we could and it's been a few years since the glamour system was introduced. It's definitely not as bad as a Korean MMO, but considering that this is a sub-based game, there's no real excuse for the disparity in my mind. I hold XIV to higher standards than games that rely on fetishizing female player characters and pandering to horny teens to stay afloat.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I really don't get the impression that male designs are being made carelessly or have less thought poured into them. FFXIV males look extremely good to me @_@; (just my opinion, though)

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Okay, so you might like the male version of the All Saint's Wake suit better, but you can't seriously argue that it didn't have less thought put into it than the female one. In that case, the male top is a complete 1:1 recolor of an item that already existed in the game at that time, with a decoration on the bowtie. The female version is a new model which, while similar to a preexisting item, has a unique touch (the skirt) which no other version of that model has. It's not equivalent at all; the appropriate male equivalent would have been to make it, say, a tailcoat rather than a short jacket, maybe with tails shaped like bat wings to give it that Halloween flare. Do that, and the lack of matching pants goes from rage-inducing to hilarious, because we still got a unique piece in the deal. (Though we could still use a dyable pair of short-shorts for guys, since the matching boots look a little odd with anything else...)

It's not a matter of liking or not liking, it's a matter of the male version objectively having less effort put into it, and by less we mean absolutely none.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

It's not a matter of liking or not liking, it's a matter of the male version objectively having less effort put into it, and by less we mean absolutely none.

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These topics always lead to tangents, but ultimately this is my beef.

I play male and female characters- when I flip between the two regularly, the wardrobes become hilariously disproportionate. I just want all my virtual barbies to have nice clothes.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

I've heard that artist being uncomfortable thing too. Which begs the questions where are the female artists

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I did some quick research on the artists working on FFXIV. There's a very good number of females working on the art of the game, about 1/3 of the team. The most notable ones are Ayumi Namae and Chieko Tomioka.

Ayumi is actually one of the two leading character concept artists with Hiroyuki Nagamine and she designs (or probably just illustrates them into a finished concept) most of the gear in the game.
Chieko isn't in the SB credits though so she probably left.

I remember the whole "male artists being uncomfortable" thing was specifically for the male bunny suit so they made females work on it instead.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Male characters never have gear that looks good in them and females always have gear that looks good on them. And that's because all gear is made on female models first then copy/pasted or slightly changed to fit male.

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Is that a known fact or are you guessing? I don't know, but I feel like some costumes were designed with the male version in mind then modified to the female version by replacing pants with short skirts. Eg. the Hall of the Novice DPS gear, where the colour scheme looks better on the male version with the black pants, and a bit odd on the female version with bare legs. Also items like the white mage's "culottes", where males do indeed get culottes and females get a frill of fabric that isn't even long enough to be called a miniskirt. And if you look at the icons for clothing pieces, they seem to show the male versions.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

The Saints Wake samples you gave are both modified versions of crafter gears. [...] For the record, I happen to like the male version of that outfit more than the female one *falls over*.

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By "Saints Wake" are you actually meaning the Valentione's costume picture above, and are you meaning they're based on the crafter's coatee? I don't think they are, other than the similar sleeves on the girl's version. The female coatee is very revealing on the chest, and that dress isn't at all.

But yes, I quite like the male coatee set, and would never wear the female one. Looks far too close to a wardrobe malfunction, especially for working in!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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Many reasons:

-When gear is datamined, the files are always shown with a female's body model(you know like that T formation with the arms?)
-Yoshida admitted in an interview, maybe multiple that many pieces were made specifically for women. Lv60 AF2 set, Lv50 AF1 and AF2 WHM sets for example. All gear is shown with the male icon except for female locked gear btw. Because male is seen as "Neutral"?
-Dataminers said that when Aymeric's set was revealed that they found the set on a female's model.. Suggesting that Aymeric's gear could've been worn by female but was never released(This one I *think* I remember seeing)
-Just look at the gear lol!

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

The Saints Wake samples you gave are both modified versions of crafter gears. The female one was modified into having a skirt, a detail you can't add to the male one because the majority of males don't want to wear skirts (as I mentioned, it's not SE's fault that male fashion is a bit less versatile than female one when it comes to skirts/trousers).

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Are you suggesting that since the guys focus on fashion less that that excuses SE from having to give them some unique things? How is that fair? O.o

I don't think it works that way... Or else this 28 page thread asking for more fashion for guys wouldn't exist.

It's not just glamour, either. A lot of people have been asking for more facial hair options over the years as well. Hien's outfit is an excellent opportunity to design a new facial hair option based on his own and make it part of the outfit package for male characters.

Yet it is unlikely to happen. So male characters simply have to stand around and see development time spent on 'unisex' hairstyles instead - many of which are clearly designed with a female model in mind. Do some male characters make use of them? Sure, but it's typically only those that are designed to be very feminine/androgynous in the first place.

Which leads to those of us wanting more masculine options left standing around awkwardly...

So it's a matter of more variety across the board, really.

As for the infamous Halloween 'set', they did an excellent job with the Songbird Attire and created two awesome sets, one for male characters and another for female characters. That should be the standard when it comes to event gear as far as I'm concerned. They did not need to add a skirt to make the Halloween set in question look good. Yet releasing it without trousers was a questionable move as far as I'm concerned.