Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

There's Stone, Sky, Sea for that

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And then?

Compared to the fights of for example O3S and O4S the rotation I do on the dummy and in the real fights have some major differences because of the downtimes that are part of the fight.

There are many possible ways how to handle them. But to know which one is good and which one not, its mandatory to have compareable results. Do I get them from the dummy? No.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

If people act like this with it not allowed, how you think people will act with it allowed?

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Once again, douchey people don't need a parser as an excuse to be a douche. They'll find a way regardless.

Hell, as it stands, you can troll people by saying, "I'm watching your rotation and you're doing it all wrong." and they have no rebuttal.

And here's a question: why is it okay to be mad at DPS for standing in the bad and dying, but not okay to be mad at them for not performing their role properly?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

It's not like the game is known as a haven for bad players.

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It absolutely is in MMO circles, though, and having no way of even knowing how much damage you're doing helps to give it that image.

MAYBE SSavage can fix that a bit, but being afraid of telling DPS how bad they're doing for fear of hurting their feelings is the MMO version of "participation trophies".

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

insulting manner. Some even do post DPS numbers in chat without it being allowed.

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It's not allowed, yes, but why numbers insult you?

There is sometimes that one person that asks for parsing numbers in a random XPF, and that's okay. But even then I wouldn't paste anything because all it takes is one silent person to somehow get offended and report you. That's how lame some can be, maybe because the numbers make them look bad, when they really are.

But of course you can use other means to keep it out of the game like discords or log links. With a static or people you can trust, absolutely no one cares. But there are petty people in this game, as shown in this thread.

In a twisted way, I kind of love calling out bad DPS players just for the reason that it never happens.

Not even through a parser, but noticing they never use buffs, or they're just standing there autoattacking, or not using AoE. They always act so surprised that I'm noticing how lazy they are, and usually pick up the pace afterwards.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

In a twisted way, I kind of love calling out bad DPS players just for the reason that it never happens.

Not even through a parser, but noticing they never use buffs, or they're just standing there autoattacking, or not using AoE. They always act so surprised that I'm noticing how lazy they are, and usually pick up the pace afterwards.

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I wish this were the case for me.

Earlier today I was running a few dungeons on Astro for once for quick Creation, and I finally witnessed what it's like to get put with blms who don't know how to aoe in SB. Even after typing out the aoe rotation for them, yet despite its simplicity, they did not ever use it. Twice, two different blms. The difference is completely night and day. It's truly a shame. Why would you not want to triplecast Flare Foul Flare and melt 70% of a mob pack in 7 seconds?

But it's not like you can force people to learn in one run, all you can do is put the information out there and hope that they absorb it. Some parties will tolerate it, others will not. The first blm was kicked by the party, and the second no one even said a word. Both times I gave them the aoe rotation, B3 B4 T3 F3 Flare Foul Flare Transpose repeat, and neither of them even tried it.

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Originally Posted by technole

There is sometimes that one person that asks for parsing numbers in a random XPF, and that's okay. But even then I wouldn't paste anything because all it takes is one silent person to somehow get offended and report you. That's how lame some can be, maybe because the numbers make them look bad, when they really are.

But of course you can use other means to keep it out of the game like discords or log links. With a static or people you can trust, absolutely no one cares. But there are petty people in this game, as shown in this thread.

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It's really shameful and awkward as a ps4 player to ask your numbers.

I had all these ideas of weekly merit badges (which reset Tuesday), that basically label players as a Silver, gold, or Platinum DPS on a given class for several days. The way to determine this is by either completing a set amount of boss fights - raids, trials, or dungeons - at which point it tallies for you your average compared to some preset expectation of damage totals. Or perhaps the players could subject themselves to a rigorous, roided version of Stone Sea Sky, with moving, fighting, dummies with mechanics, that would give pause to even veteran players (dream on, right?). It would become another checkbox on a PF - "Gold or higher weekly DPS badge required for any DPS class you join as."

Basically a temporary achievement that says "This person knows how to SAM/MCH/whatever."

Problem is I'm not sure how to avoid problems where a DPS has a bad run and has it skew the tallies, causing their ratings to slip for the badge. I suppose they could always retake the tally by doing another 10 fights. And I', not sure how to set this up for tanks or healers.

And then I thought, well...why even bother with all this? Yes it is paradise for lazy DPS players, but a lot of MMOs are. At most, they inconvenience a group on a dungeon run or cause a few people to go looking for a new DF group. They don't really ruin the game to the point where something must be done. People already use meters when DPS matters. They'll fake a disband on Ex primal mount farms and replace a DPS. They'll replace static members on savage raids... Anywhere where ultimate DPS is really required, the playerbase already enforces tough restrictions on private groups with relative tact (most of the time), and understandably so - no one likes to waste time.

What perhaps worries me more is not slacking players, but more skilled players not getting recognition (other than unofficial sites like fflogs). Commendations are kind of a joke. SE might take a page from Blizzard's book with MVP screens at ends of raids, dungeons, or trials. Most physical damage dealt, Most magic damage dealt. Most damage mitigated via tank cooldowns. Most damage healed. Most damage shielded by magic shields. most raises handed out. Most time spent dead (joking, kind of). Most clutch heals. These sorts of official parses already exist in PvP, they could be adapted to PvE.

Might be a terrible idea, though. I'm sure I haven't thought it through enough.

Honestly what's good on having a way to detect your dmg if most ppl wipe at the first spellblade holy in v3s anyway?

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Honestly what's good on having a way to detect your dmg if most ppl wipe at the first spellblade holy in v3s anyway?

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Because you you can visibly see who is doing that and replace them for underperforming, whereas it's nigh impossible to see who is doing so low DPS that you're wiping to the last The Game even with no deaths?

Honestly that was more of a joke born, from my pugs experience in v3s. TBH V3s is one of those fights were in a pug the general dps would be the least of my concern

edit: BTW when I was getting a party for my weekly v2s kill I ran into a group that kicked me because 2 BLMs were not good for the dps (that's before even starting mind you), funny since I got the clear with a party where there was another BLM soon after

DPS have had EZ street forever in this game. The larger the group, the easier it is to hide. How do you find the slacker DPS in a 24 man group? GL. But you can identify which of the 3 tanks is slacking/sucks. Everyone knows that feeling of watching your HP drop from unavoidable raid damage (or heaven forbid as a tank) and just hoping someone cures you to no avail.

I have been in a great many pugs where we get to the end of the fight and fail the DPS check a couple times and the party just says "DPS check fail" and disbands. You know what happens if its a Tank or Healer check fail? They get kicked and replaced. DPS check fail? Disband the whole party instead of finding the weak links.

With all the enmity tools floating around now, staying under the raider is easier than ever.

Also, as someone who has been playing both tanks and DPS since ARR in every piece of content, when I need to run a dungeon but REALLY don't want to and watch Netflix/Half ass through it, I don't go on Drk or War. I go hit 1-2 aoe buttons on drg or another DPS. Screw up my rotations on bosses. Still get a com sometimes. When I put that little attention as a tank (pull 3 mobs at a time, slow to pick up adds etc) people complain. DPS I get coms and get to watch Netflix.

You are flatly ignorant or delusional if you place the scrutiny of DPS on the same plane as tanks and healers are under.

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Originally Posted by Aana

Also, as someone who has been playing both tanks and DPS since ARR in every piece of content, when I need to run a dungeon but REALLY don't want to and watch Netflix/Half ass through it, I don't go on Drk or War. I go hit 1-2 aoe buttons on drg or another DPS. Screw up my rotations on bosses. Still get a com sometimes.

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The funny part is, that's still better than half of the random DPS you meet in DF. At least you know you have a rotation to screw up.

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Originally Posted by Aana

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I want to build on that a bit. I have all 3 roles levels up to 70, in fact, a melee and caster dps just as an extra part. When leveling my PLD I noticed something very interesting. Despite my efforts of cooldowns to give healers more dps time, as well as doing as much damage as my job allowed me to, I'd still get these runs that were really long. Due to the job guage changes, it's even harder to tell now what dps is messing up. I can't see my MNK's stacks. I can't see if NIN has huton or not. I can't tell if SMN is running Aetherflow unless I check for Dreadwyrm trance.

It makes the runs slower, and my runs are generally faster when I go as a dps, because then I'm sure at least one is doing it. In fact, I have an extra fun story. 3.1 expert roulettes, I'd keep getting dps (usually a drg) that had full vit accessories. Long runs. I had to stop playing my ast and go blm just so that the runs weren't slow as hell.

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Originally Posted by Aana

DPS have had EZ street forever in this game. The larger the group, the easier it is to hide. How do you find the slacker DPS in a 24 man group? GL. But you can identify which of the 3 tanks is slacking/sucks. Everyone knows that feeling of watching your HP drop from unavoidable raid damage (or heaven forbid as a tank) and just hoping someone cures you to no avail.

I have been in a great many pugs where we get to the end of the fight and fail the DPS check a couple times and the party just says "DPS check fail" and disbands. You know what happens if its a Tank or Healer check fail? They get kicked and replaced. DPS check fail? Disband the whole party instead of finding the weak links.

With all the enmity tools floating around now, staying under the raider is easier than ever.

Also, as someone who has been playing both tanks and DPS since ARR in every piece of content, when I need to run a dungeon but REALLY don't want to and watch Netflix/Half ass through it, I don't go on Drk or War. I go hit 1-2 aoe buttons on drg or another DPS. Screw up my rotations on bosses. Still get a com sometimes. When I put that little attention as a tank (pull 3 mobs at a time, slow to pick up adds etc) people complain. DPS I get coms and get to watch Netflix.

You are flatly ignorant or delusional if you place the scrutiny of DPS on the same plane as tanks and healers are under.

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Great post, but the bolded part in particular highlights exactly how awful this problem is.

It is not, nor will it EVER, be fair to healers and tanks that they have mechanics in the game that allow players to accurately judge their performance but DPS do not.

Either give us the tools to gauge the performance of DPS players or make it even by adding in mechanics that obfuscate the performance of tanks and healers.

RichardButte casts /Verraise

To be perfectly honest, the reason Tank and Healer are under heavier scrutiny, is because they are essential roles. You can limp by with less DPS or even just the Tank and Healer for a bit, but if you lose either your Tank or Healer (and can't get them back up) then you just lost the fight.

Also, when you have a bad Tank or Healer, you can usually tell right away. DPS you can't really tell until you're further in the duty. So, there's that...

In short, I agree that the microscope is on those two jobs, but there's a reason for it. DPS are literally a dime a dozen. However, depending on the duty, the microscope can just as easily fall on them--and often does, only there is less hesitation to kicking a DPS than there is for kicking a Healer or Tank (especially Tank).

So I guess... welcome to becoming expendable?

Healing may be a thankless job but it also has more Job security. Lol.

Not all dungeons are supposed to go perfectly the way you want.

Failure is supposed to be there, you aren't supposed to have hand outs.

If you won everything every time it would be a game it would be more like level syncing go in kill get out, I want the best possible team with no faults no way to lose and I don't have to help out the guy that's having a hard time because I want to get boosted by a better player and you can claim you are just as good but always mess up and get through it just fine but because your DPS is great you don't see it as a set back.

Just like if someone had Low DPS even if they were the last one who die and knew the mechanics and everyone else died i am positive the blame will still go his way and I ain't talking about timed rage KO's

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The attacks for each class are distinctive enough that if you've played them or done some research on them, you'll know whether or not someone is doing their rotation properly.

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I'm not playing and analyzing every job just so I can pick out the player who don't pull their weight.....

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Not all dungeons are supposed to go perfectly the way you want.

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I thought the point of this thread was that DPS don't have any in-game indicator of their performance. Whereas both tanks and healers do, because when these fail, it's truly evident. No mitigation, no aggro, no healing, no support. How can you tell in a party of 8 what DPS is holding the group back? This game could use some official DPS meter support.

Yeah, players will be bad and they couldn't care less because they can get away with it. There are no numbers, no nothing that straight tells you "Hey, that DRG over there... he is doing less DPS than the tank".

Sure, you can watch their rotations, see the animations and sound cues... but that will require you to know all the jobs' rotations and moves. Why would you put that extra responsability on your shoulders? Like stated among the first posts, it's the game's fault for not providing the needed tools. People using ACT are powerless because, if they say something about it, they will get inmediatly reported by any b**thurt player. Not because it's against the ToS (unless you're one of these online paladins of "justice"), but because your feelings were hurt. :(

Sadly, I have to agree with OP on this, being an DPS players means I can underpreform and get away with it and lets be real here its alot easier to notice when a healer is slacking or when a tank is not preforming to the standard that is set by the game. I fear untill there is a legal way (parsers) to show the underpreforming DPS player that they are bad, I see no changes comming to the community.

This is also why the past months, I have been DPSing more then tanking or healing, its more relaxing and underpreforming is 99% of time not noticed.

I don't believe the implementation of some kind of meter to gauge how a DPS player is doing is the answer to the issue. DPS players are responsible for more than just causing damage. That is their primary function in a group setting, but they are also required to dodge, interact with objects on the field, know if adds should be attacked or left alone; also if you're a DPS player capable of raising such as RDM or SMN, and the healer(s) go down, all eyes are on you. If the tank(s) go down and you have the highest HP pool, guess what you're doing?

When playing as healer, this is how I know if a DPS player is bad. It does not require for me to know their rotations, or even play a DPS class. I know because the afore mentioned are ruining the efficiency of the party as a whole, and forcing myself and/or the tank to work harder to perform our duties when DPS players are botching these things left and right, or not doing them. So if they can't perform these very basic of secondary duties in group play, should I really be confident that they are keeping up a complex DPS rotation?

Thing is, they don't get called out for this either. But I don't think adding tools to help call them out is the solution either. I'm probably being idealistic here, but I really just wish the finger pointing would stop, and everyone just work together to get better.

It's true, DPS can afford to slack off a bit more without being called out on it. I suppose the trade-off is long queue times.

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Originally Posted by Kohdo

It's true, DPS can afford to slack off a bit more without being called out on it. I suppose the trade-off is long queue times.

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The result is long queue times.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Great post, but the bolded part in particular highlights exactly how awful this problem is.

It is not, nor will it EVER, be fair to healers and tanks that they have mechanics in the game that allow players to accurately judge their performance but DPS do not.

Either give us the tools to gauge the performance of DPS players or make it even by adding in mechanics that obfuscate the performance of tanks and healers.

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Or make failing dps check not mean automatic failure.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Or make failing dps check not mean automatic failure.

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Cue flashbacks of Coil Turn 2's 'pug strat'.

/shudder :eek:

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Cue flashbacks of Coil Turn 2's 'pug strat'.

/shudder :eek:

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Never did coil back in day, doing t now and stuck on second coil turn four.

Funny thing about me, though I main a healer, I also enjoy playing my BRD. Though I've stopped playing dps entirely because I feel that if I'm not playing perfectly people will yell at me for not doing high enough dps. "This dungeon run took 0.000000001 seconds longer than I say it should. The dps was the worst ever!" Exaggerating obviously but based on the posts I frequently see on the forums here that's the impression I get.

Compare that to healing where I feel that as long as I can toss in my dps that I enjoy doing and people don't die from things due to my lack of healing, everything is fine. I find it much less stressful since I'm not worried about having a perfect rotation.

I gave up on healing in this game because, in the later parts of Omega Savage, playing a healer just became way more stress than it was worth. Here is what I had to do as a healer:

1) Heal general damage, you know, the usual
2) Do the encounter mechanics
3) Emergency heals for people not doing mechanics right
4) Have perfectly timed heals for special mechanics
5) Rez the DPS who are more worried about Muh Deeps than mechanics
6) Do high DPS on top of all of that and you DO have to do high DPS

Just... no, I'm not into that kind of stress in my life at this point. Thankfully I had my PLD high enough level I could switch and I haven't looked back...well... sometimes.. but not enough for me to overcome the bad taste in my mouth for healing in this game. I may check out healing in 5.X but my will to heal in this game is broken and its going to take a long time to heal... if ever.

I've done a little healing in dungeons, but not trials or raids. How stressful is it?

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

I've done a little healing in dungeons, but not trials or raids. How stressful is it?

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In terms of savage raiding, I've done some of it as healer, and I quit doing it entirely because its too much. People expect perfection in savage and I'm not anywhere near that good.

Commendations should be more rewarding imo.
So tanks and healers would get a reward for playing harder.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

You don't need meters to tell when a bad DPS is bad.

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Nothing like 35+ minute dungeon runs.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

How stressful is it?

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The healing and mechanics are tricky but most can manage them after some practice, so not super stressful. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the fact that I had to do high dps on top of all of that and still maintain perfect timings and keeping everybody alive.

It was just too much... too much stress, too much frustration, too much to do. I don't know if I would do it again, even if I was paid a full time salary. That is what it became, a job, not a game, it wasn't fun, it was a pain! The moment I walked away from it I was like... omg... I feel so much better, I'm never doing that again.

If they add a "100% pure" healer, then I'd consider it again but that job would have to have 0% DPS, just focus only on healing. I have played a healer for 17 years and loved it, but in this game, healers are NOT healers. They are DPS with a raid utility of healing... so in the end, your all DPS, even if the color of the icon isn't red.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't believe the implementation of some kind of meter to gauge how a DPS player is doing is the answer to the issue. DPS players are responsible for more than just causing damage. That is their primary function in a group setting, but they are also required to dodge, interact with objects on the field, know if adds should be attacked or left alone; also if you're a DPS player capable of raising such as RDM or SMN, and the healer(s) go down, all eyes are on you. If the tank(s) go down and you have the highest HP pool, guess what you're doing?

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Literally nothing you've said here doesn't apply to both tanks and healers. In fact, interactive mechanics and call outs typically default to the aforementioned two because sacrificing their DPS is far more beneficial than taking an actual damage dealer off the boss for any length of time. It's why only healers take Animal Farm first in V3S and why the uptime strat became more or less ubiquitous in Neo. DPS forced into a tank role due to deaths is less by choice and simply who has higher aggro. For example, I am very aggressive with Elusive Jump. If the tank dies, it's far more likely a healer will pick up aggro than me simply due to how Elusive works.

What damage meters provide is context. Whenever a 24 man goes awry, I'll often see DPS whining about damage or healing yet lo' and behold, they are among the lowest in DPS. Furthermore, I firmly believe many people don't realize they are underperforming because this game does a piss poor job relaying that sort of information. These are the people who would benefit most since they're far more inclined to improve, especially since the positive reinforcement of seeing their damage shoot from say 3,500 to 4,500 will only encourage them.

I want an in-game parser because it would be convenient. What? Did you think it was because I want people to become better players? That's their job. At least I'm honest about why I want an in-game parser. I ain't here to preach, lol.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I gave up on healing in this game because, in the later parts of Omega Savage, playing a healer just became way more stress than it was worth. Here is what I had to do as a healer:

1) Heal general damage, you know, the usual
2) Do the encounter mechanics
3) Emergency heals for people not doing mechanics right
4) Have perfectly timed heals for special mechanics
5) Rez the DPS who are more worried about Muh Deeps than mechanics
6) Do high DPS on top of all of that and you DO have to do high DPS

Just... no, I'm not into that kind of stress in my life at this point. Thankfully I had my PLD high enough level I could switch and I haven't looked back...well... sometimes.. but not enough for me to overcome the bad taste in my mouth for healing in this game. I may check out healing in 5.X but my will to heal in this game is broken and its going to take a long time to heal... if ever.

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#6 is incorrect if followed by #5 and #3.

I've seen you post this same story before and it just doesn't make sense. Logically sound groups don't expect their healers to do high DPS if the tanks and DPS are making mistakes and needing extra heals or dying all over the place.

Any static group that would expect a healer to do high percentile DPS in progression omega when their team is failing mechanics and needing extra healing or raises is simply asking for way too much and they likely don't realize that healer DPS suffers the more they screw up and need extra healing or raises.

Healer DPS is highly reliant on the efficiency of the rest of the group and not only on the healer themselves. You need tanks to know the best cooldowns for each situation to lessen healing required and not get one shot and need raising, you need your cohealer to know how much they need to contribute along with your contribution to satisfactorily heal the incoming damage with 1-2 GCD/oGCD each so that you both can go back to DPSing, you need the DPS to do the mechanics properly to avoid extra healing needed and the whole team needs to avoid deaths.

I would say, based on what you've said at least, you had a group that simply expected their healer to carry too much of the mistakes being made if you were told your DPS wasn't high enough in runs where your team is making a large amount of mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Miste

#6 is incorrect if followed by #5 and #3.

I've seen you post this same story before and it just doesn't make sense. Logically sound groups don't expect their healers to do high DPS if the tanks and DPS are making mistakes and needing extra heals or dying all over the place.

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Took the words out of my mouth really, I wanted to make a similar reply earlier but 'meh'd out of it halfway through.

I'm sorry, but if my group expected me to have truly high DPS (And no, maintaining dots isn't high DPS) but couldn't stay alive themselves then they need to get their own house in order before they start throwing stones at mine. Frankly, I'm more inclined to suspect that it's pressure that you're putting on yourself through every 'sigh' and 'groan' that comes through TS/Discord when a tank dies or such even if there's nothing beyond short lived frustration behind it. So many healers are guilty of this (myself included) and learning to deal with it and shrug it off is the single most important thing you can do if you want to keep your motivation going.

If this really is the case and your leader is making those kind of demands, then dialogue is needed within the group. Simply put, either the DPS need to become consistent and reliable or the healers need to be allowed to play more cautiously. I will say though, having 2 nervous healers isn't such a good thing for optimisation or early progression when raidwide DPS is at a premium. I'd fully appreciate that raiding alongside a clone of myself would be immensely inefficient and as such have always looked for co-healers that are happier to keep plugging away and trust that I can salvage things, if I'm alongside another 'healy' healer that's not likely to adapt, I do my best to put my faith in them until they ask otherwise. This is the more likely sticking point if you really did have issues within the group.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Literally nothing you've said here doesn't apply to both tanks and healers.

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So even though the thread is specifically targeting DPS players, I have to make my posts more verbose than they already are to avoid insinuating that similar/same requirements aren't required of healers and tanks? Apparently even in a thread talking about instances, I need to go above and beyond for the sake of argument. Ok, fine. I will do so going forward.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

In fact, interactive mechanics and call outs typically default to the aforementioned two because sacrificing their DPS is far more beneficial than taking an actual damage dealer off the boss for any length of time.

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Really? Then why are healers and tanks being called out in savage raids and EX trials for low deeps? That pretty much takes the wind right out of your argument. Do you not see how this contributes to the problem the OP speaks of? Did you not see the other poster who listed a healer's requirements for savage raiding, stating that it was too much? Field interactions weren't even on her list, and yet we are expected to do this too. All because nothing is more important than your precious deeps, even if that means making tanks and healers work harder. It's comments like this that help me understand where the OP is coming from. I won't make any comparisons of which role has it more difficult, but it is quite clear that DPS have the fewest expectations in pretty much all content.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

What damage meters provide is context.

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And what does that said context provide? Is it entirely beneficial? Can it be abused? You can't answer yes to first question, if the answer to the second is also yes.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Whenever a 24 man goes awry, I'll often see DPS whining about damage or healing yet lo' and behold, they are among the lowest in DPS. Furthermore, I firmly believe many people don't realize they are underperforming because this game does a piss poor job relaying that sort of information. These are the people who would benefit most since they're far more inclined to improve, especially since the positive reinforcement of seeing their damage shoot from say 3,500 to 4,500 will only encourage them.

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The 24-man failed, simple as that. You go in as a group. You fail/succeed as a group. All I see is you want to find the weakest link, and your intention of doing so can be good or bad. You've already mentioned how to do so without a damage meter: It's the loudest player in the group, pointing fingers at everyone except himself. If he/she was in one of my groups, they would be the first I would recommend gets booted. No fflogs given. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that an in-game parser/damage meter wouldn't assist to help a player get better. However, what I am saying is that they are not needed to identify a bad player. Unless, your sole definition of a bad player is the one who has the lowest deeps, and I really hope that is not the case.

The way I see it is, if there is a public meter, the amount of toxicity towards tanks and healers (especially in regards to healer DPS) would likely drop by a lot. People would be less inclined to throw that kind of pressure on a healer when the rest of the party can easily throw that argument back to the DPS. It would definitely open a lot of eyes about how little healer DPS actually contributes these days compared to DPS actually playing at even a near optimal level.

I'm a person that openly parses, and I don't give a damn about healer DPS because in my experience, the performance of 95% of the people I ran into that started blaming wipes on healer DPS don't really have any legs to stand on themselves.

This isn't Heavensward, where healer DPS could easily end up contributing about 20% of the overall party's DPS during a whole dungeon run (or in clearer terms, 800-1k+ DPS), and good DPS typically pulled around 1.8-2.5k+. In Stormblood, the only healers I've seen that are able to pull that off anymore (about 2k-2.5k+ DPS) are healers that have the O4S weapon and/or know how to maximize everything. You can't expect that out of every healer you run into. Meanwhile, on average I can pull off 6k+ in multi-target situations and consistently do about 4.4k+ in single target situations as a Bard - and considering that Bards are supposedly the lowest DPS of all the DPS jobs... The contribution that healer DPS has towards dungeon runs has diminished greatly compared to the Heavensward days, especially with Direct Hit now being a thing and healers don't have any decent source of it unless they meld it.

Of course, I'm still going to be miffed if the healer doesn't at least try to contribute -some- damage in an expert roulette run (especially in the case of White Mages where Holy stuns are a mitigation tool in itself), and ends up jumping around waiting for something to happen in their downtime. That's just expecting someone to be reasonable.

Parsing in the right hands isn't a tool of harassment as many would like to frame it. It's a thing of universal understanding of how the game and the community actually works.