3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by Vice-Taicho

Mnk vs sch ...please do something that match up is retarded especially in 4vs4.Mnk shut down every option you have.

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Everytime I punch off aetherflow, I know in my heart thats scholar is gonna fall behind.

So, the rankings right now for 4v4 solo do not matter? Or will there be rewards for it? I thought the season had not started yet though.

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Originally Posted by Pence

It's either your team annihilates....which is boring.....or you get annihilated....which is frustrating. Frontlines is dead, Feast will more than likely soon be dead.....

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Man... I've been lucky, apparently... I've had so many matches where we went the full timer because both teams refused to let up, several Draws, in fact... I've had very few matches that were just a complete whitewash...

My sole issue is how rating works, and perhaps later Job balance, though so far I've gone from worry that Dark Knight will be utterly pathetic with it's lack of utility, to enjoying the heck out of terrorizing people all match long... Rating is the only thing annoying me at the moment though, losing a win (or more) because you got paired with a bad group is simply frustrating... Wish they'd change the rating reward/reduction to be based on parties rank/rating composition, so losing with a group of no-ranks loses you less rating, while beating a group of Bronze+ nets you more points.

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Originally Posted by Titor

So, the rankings right now for 4v4 solo do not matter? Or will there be rewards for it? I thought the season had not started yet though.

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No rewards yet, we're pre-season still. That said, I think it is entirely worth doing for practice, but more importantly feedback. SE said they're giving us a pre-season in order to balance the game for the upcoming season, so I would imagine they're listening extra hard right now... Very much worth getting a feel for this and sending off feedback, IMO.

Thanks for the response!

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Man... I've been lucky, apparently... I've had so many matches where we went the full timer because both teams refused to let up

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This is exactly my experience. Matches go longer than not for me, and often times it is really close or one team ends up winning the last minute. No draws though, one team always seems to be greater than the other by some metal.

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Originally Posted by Pence

Frontlines is dead

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Not at all just got 2min que pop while typing this, what is even more awesome is its mostly 24mans now \o/

Lately in 8v8, I've been getting runs where one or both healers floor their MP rather quickly and Manasong is only a short term bandaid given it's long cooldown. So, two questions. Is Ballad's regen even worth the damage reduction to sustained, non-burst dps? And also, I have no idea about how valuable stats are or aren't, so would I be better of cutting the +6 Dex trait in exchange for a further 60 seconds off of Manasong? Or should I just concern myself with runs where healers have better MP management?

(If it is legitimately difficult for healers to not floor MP at times depending on their teams then I do apologise. I honestly have no idea and am going off of what a friend said when he told me they were just inexperienced).

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Originally Posted by Februs

I am, however, having a slight problem with Pld. It's not it's utility or how it plays. It plays AMAZING in Feast. The problem is the general attitude I've seen towards Pld by the vast majority of people I've played with.

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That's a real shame, I've had my ass saved quite a few times with a clutch clemency and the like. Most pld's I've had in my groups have been pretty good as far as teamwork goes.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

so would I be better of cutting the +6 Dex trait in exchange for a further 60 seconds off of Manasong?

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Those PvP stat things are imo totally useless, i rather take skill upgrades as those have alot larger impact that few stat points. If healers want VIT then its just better to use one or two Fendings instead of wasting points in those PvP VIT traits.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Those PvP stat things are imo totally useless, i rather take skill upgrades as those have alot larger impact that few stat points. If healers want VIT then its just better to use one or two Fendings instead of wasting points in those PvP VIT traits.

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In Frontlines, it was extremely rare to ever need to use Manasong so the Dex points were really the only viable option left, even if I had no idea just how much value they actually equated to. Albeit that's proving to be a different story here so if that's really the case then I'll happily change it ^^

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Those PvP stat things are imo totally useless, i rather take skill upgrades as those have alot larger impact that few stat points. If healers want VIT then its just better to use one or two Fendings instead of wasting points in those PvP VIT traits.

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Some traits are functionally useless though. Enliven isn't even touched on my bar now that TP isnt used for sprint. Damage traits on abilities like stun gun, blast arrow and retrogradiation are nigh useless (due to damage penalty and no cleric stance respectively). In line with some changes, I feel that they really need to make adjustments to some PvP abilties now, and this was the case even before the feast (such as mana draw on MCH)

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

That's a real shame, I've had my ass saved quite a few times with a clutch clemency and the like. Most pld's I've had in my groups have been pretty good as far as teamwork goes.

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It is a shame. Don't get me wrong, though. Pld is still one of the most rewarding jobs to play in Feast. It is immensely satisfying to save a teammate with a well timed Clem, bolster their defenses with DV/Testudo, or facilitate an early kill with a GB>Full Swing > stun combo. I've had some exceptionally good matches as a Pld, and it's been a total blast to play. I definitely don't plan on dropping it anytime soon. It's just a little frustrating when people automatically allot blame to the Pld simply because they are assuming their utility stretches further than it actually does.

Pld is a crutch in this game mode, it's true, but it's only one crutch. There's a limit to how many people can lean on it at once.

I'm fairly sure the majority of people talking shit just have no idea what certain Jobs are capable of... Being told off because I was meant to single handily keep the Astrologian from casting spells? It's like people aren't aware Astrologian has instant casts or that Dark Knight has one Stun and that's it... People also seem to be getting stuck on a single strategy, despite party composition being what should dictate that... I can terrorize an Astrologian as Dark Knight, but they're still going to get enough healing off to prevent kills (unless our DPS is amazing, which they rarely are). It simply isn't going to work to just go "tank focus healer" in such a situation, not unless their healer is utter rubbish, we'd be much better off changing strategy based on what Jobs we have and what we're up against, but nope, always just "tank focus healer" despite the fact that I'm not a bleedin' Paladin so I can't Stun lock the Astrologian while DPS melt each other... Then you have people just straight up ignoring the the defense kit, both not opening ours and focusing the enemy who popped theirs...

I really wish they'd force people into the 8v8 mode... So many utter idiots who don't know what they're doing going into ranked and costing people rating... I had a bleedin' healer out right admit at the start that they're going to suck, and I was just completely dumbfounded... Why are you queuing ranked if you know you suck? Go practice somewhere we're you're not costing teammates their rating FFS...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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In my experience DPS are better at harassing AST's than DRK. DRK isn't very good at harassing anything that instant casts. But that's not a weakness in the strategy it's a weakness in the job. PLD/WAR have no trouble holding an AST long enough to prevent healing to a single DPS while it gets bursted in 2-3 seconds.

Maybe if Syphon actually stole MP from them it would be a better job. DRK isn' by any means weak but its harass is only really usable on SCH/WHM. Ast really doesn't have any counters other than SMN, and SMN counters everything except monk.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

In my experience DPS are better at harassing AST's than DRK. DRK isn't very good at harassing anything that instant casts. But that's not a weakness in the strategy it's a weakness in the job. PLD/WAR have no trouble holding an AST long enough to prevent healing to a single DPS while it gets bursted in 2-3 seconds.

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There is nothing wrong with the strategy, I'm complaining about how people are blindly following it. You don't just say "tank focus healer" when your tank simply isn't equipped to take on their healer. It's like saying "always do rock in rock, paper, scissors", when you know your opponent is someone who always does paper... People are just blindly following that strategy and refusing to deviate from it at all, despite the fact that is simply does not work all the time... Party composition should dictate your strategy, not just sticking to some generalized order... I've yet to find a single group that actually listened to me when I said "Dark Knight cannot counter Astrologian well", they're all just intent on sticking to having the tank harass healer, despite that not being a fool-proof strategy because party composition is key in this... Then they complain at me because the Astrologian could get heals through... What the hell do they expect? I tell them Dark Knight has one Stun and Astrologian has instant casts, that a Monk would be better off countering them or we'd be better off melting them from the start, but people just out right refuse to listen, even when the enemy ranged DPS has the defense kit... It's absurd... I mean props to people actually going in with a strategy, but blindly following it despite common sense is almost as bad as just going in and not focusing at all...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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DRK doesn't counter anything well though it's the weakest of the three tanks. It just has a saving grace in being able to interrupt casts with unmend. I agree blindly following a strategy is bad, and you should change up strategy throughout the match anyway. The first plan shouldn't be the only plan. but let's be honest, DRK just really isn't that great compared to the other two tanks. it can hold its own but it will never do what they can. People expect you to though.

I do agree with what you're saying just. DRK isn't that good period anyway to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I do agree with what you're saying just. DRK isn't that good period anyway to begin with.

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Eh, I think it's good, just in a different way. Only problem is the chase and burst potential only really make up for the lack of crowd control utility, something like Clemency is just in a league of its own and Dark Knight just has nothing in comparison...

The main problem is Paladin and Warrior essentially have a double positive with things like Clemency/Thrill of War; Not only can they support their party, but they require less attention from their healers because they can heal themselves. That frees the healer up to focus on other things. Dark Knight, on the other hand, suffers from a double negative (which doesn't make a positive...); I have no real self healing to speak of, and I can't really do anything to support my party. I require more attention from my healer and offer nothing in exchange for that... I love my burst potential, but compared to what other tanks have this really doesn't seem balanced at all... I think they really need to play up the Drain aspect of the Job... Even if it's just something like changing Tar Pit into an OP Bloodbath, that would mean I can effectively support my party by letting my healer essentially ignore me and focus on everyone else...

Other than the Drain aspect though, I'd quite like to see the whole sacrifice aspect played up... Something similar to Sole Survivor that you put on allies? Anyone who dies with the effect deals some fairly nasty damage. Perhaps something similar to an instant cast Clemency or Cover equivalent? Rather than healing someone and healing myself though, more of a "Have some of my HP", so I can actively sacrifice my HP to (try and) save someone. That, I think, gives Dark Knight some support without becoming too similar to Paladin or Warrior. All the skills would have some fairly nice synergy, too. Going to die? Pop Sole Survivor II on yourself and toss your last 20% at a party member who needs it. Someone needs a heal? Give them 20% of your HP and pop Tar Pit to recover that HP back.

Thinking about it, do you think they could incorporate some of the recent new mechanics into PvP skills? The way medals/kits drop, for example... Wouldn't that make for a pretty great set of new PvP skills, or adjustments to existing ones? Why have Malmsight as an utterly worthless piece of crap, when it could instead act as a support skill which drops a buff for a teammate to pick up, which is proportional to the number of enemies spotted (with a cap, of course).

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Originally Posted by Knahli

In Frontlines, it was extremely rare to ever need to use Manasong

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BLM's loved it in Slaughter due Flare spam and it had uses in Secure where some encounters lasted almost 10mins so healers were running OOM. But yeah on current modes its propably pretty useless as fights are too short to run out of mana, luckily tank pvp skills are awesome so there is always way to spend AP on those instead of lameass stat Traits ^^

Poor BLMs got no love from me then since I thought repeatedly draining their mana was part of their gameplay mechanics. I didn't think it would have been anything remotely desirable *laughs* Maybe from now on in Seal Rock at least, thank you!

Can you knockback people off the ledges to the lower levels in Feast? Idk why I haven't thought of this before, but for some reason I feel like there's invisible walls or something that prevent this. Anyone have experience testing?

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Originally Posted by MSnow

Can you knockback people off the ledges to the lower levels in Feast? Idk why I haven't thought of this before, but for some reason I feel like there's invisible walls or something that prevent this. Anyone have experience testing?

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Yes, it works perfectly fine. Just mind that there are partial railings on the bridges which will prevent people from falling off.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

• 4 on 4 - Solo
  

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Hi Zhexos,

I would like to offer my feedback on 4v4 solo.


I have been playing pvp since it has come out; I did not stay in the den long because premades and bots made it difficult for me to find it fun. I enjoyed when Secure, Slaughter and Seize came out. PvP is one of the things I enjoy most about this game.

However, if 4v4 solo ranked continues as it does, it will erode a lot of the good players (and avid pvpers) down. As it stands, it is hard for one good person to beat a team if his teammates don't have sufficient skill. I feel I am a decent player, but in the past few days my rating has crashed because of the parties I've gotten into.

I feel that if an unranked 4v4 solo queue were implemented, and a mentoring system, those newbies who would like to try Feast without the pressure of being ranked would feel more welcome and it would provide that venue for veteran players to assist in a situation where their rank will not be affected.

At present, the environment is hostile to new players because we vets are our rank effected by those who are new to pvp.

I feel this mode has a lot of potential, but this mode for solo queue really needs help. I find myself hard pressed to queue because I don't want my ranking to tank more than it has.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

4 on 4 - Solo

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I quit.

I enjoy the heck out of Feast, but 4 on 4 - Solo is just a f*cking waste of time and I really don't see any significant changes being ready for the first season...

Jobs

I can only talk for tanks, but Dark Knight is simply a liability and nothing more. Warrior has superior DPS, fairly beastly self heals and some utility to help support their party and/or lock enemies. Paladin has weak DPS, but phenomenal utility and support, even fairly nice self healing with the odd Clemency. Dark Knight offers nothing of value... It's DPS is generally outclassed by Warrior, it has no self healing worth mentioning, and it's support is just pathetic. It is a liability, if you have a Dark Knight in your party, everyone else in the party needs to pick up some slack, especially the healer. Warrior can take care of its self with Second Wind/Equilibrium/Thrill of War, Paladin can take care of the healer with Clemency. Dark Knight can do nothing. So not only do Paladin and Warrior offer more in the way of utility with things like Stun-lock, but they also free up the healer to focus on other things, where as if a Dark Knight gets attacked, they'll require their healers full attention. Was Dark Knight perhaps balanced with Grit in mind for PvP? Even if, Grit Souleater is (completely ruled out in my head until I have enough medal stacks, because losing Blood Weapon is cancer) pathetic when PvP is all about burst; That goes for healing as well, and Grit Souleater will do nothing, by the time I've gone through that combo I've taken more damage that it will ever hope to heal... Worst of all is Tar Pit, is that a joke?

Matchmaking

Why are people able to queue for ranked matches so easily? I've lost count of how many people I've seen in Feast who have no right queuing for ranked matches... They are, by their own admission, not very good... Yet here they are, queuing for a ranked mode where they'll be paired up with people who will lose their rating because their healer is new and doesn't know what PvP skills are... It's absurd... I'll take longer queues please... Lock ranked Feast behind, I don't know, attaining PvP Rank 20? Something... Force people who are new to do anything before letting them loose in ranked where they'll just ruin peoples experience... Please, when 3.25 hits, make us do the quest to unlock Feast again... Have it just unlock 8v8 and make it so you need to win at 8v8 before you're allowed anywhere near ranked... People should not be cutting their teeth in matches where their total lack of experience is going to negatively impact others ratings...

Rewards

First lets get this out the way; "per data center"? Why? I mean, I appreciate making them rare, but you really only want 6 of those furnishings in the world? Wouldn't it make far more sense to have it per server?

Now lets move onto tomestones... This has been a problem for a while, so it applies to more than just Feast (or it would, if Frontlines was at all relevant anymore)... I get why these are here, it's good incentive to try PvP, and it allows people to focus on PvP if they want to, without falling behind on PvE. Were there no tomestone rewards, part of my PvP time would instead be spent on capping Lore. It's good that this is here, but... Do you really need to reward losers with tomestones? This is simply not good. For anyone. It's reasonably bad for PvE (players who "earn" their gear effectively doing nothing) and it's terrible for PvP (players who queue "just for the tomestones"). There is nothing more infuriating than having worthless baggage on your team because PvP is an easy ticket to "earn" some tomestones. Make the tomestone rewards solely for the victor, it would be an extra reason for people to actively push to win and it would completely cut out the worthless individuals that I am sick of dealing with...

Rating

Overkill. I think that about sums it up... For solo, this is far too punishing... Isn't the fact that we need to win 3/5 to qualify for the next rank enough? I'd hope you don't even need feedback on this... You have all the player data... For pre-made, I imagine this is perfectly fine, if you lose there you know who to blame, you can deal with that. Solo? I have zero control over my party composition. I have zero control over whether they actually listen to me. I have zero control over their skill. It essentially becomes a coin flip... As such, progression in this means nothing... It isn't a matter of being skilled and reaching Diamond, it's a matter of being persistent and reaching Silver. If you're lucky. I don't even see the point in 4 on 4 - Solo anymore... And this is the mode you're putting rewards on? Rating has nothing to do with personal skill... You can be the best damned PvPer possible, but you're still stuck dealing with 3 random people who'll lock you at 500 for the rest of the month... That's partly a matchmaking issue, but still... Was it really necessary to essentially have +1 for a win and -1 for a loss? People are not going to advance with this system. They'll get frustrated, then they'll quit.

You know what I'd rather see? Solo and pre-made to be two entirely different things... Pre-made is about having your own little group and taking them to the top. Solo? That should be about Jobs... Register as a Job, raise your rating on that Job, and aim to be the best Derp Knight on the data center... The rewards practically write themselves (hint: PvP Relic Weapons)... You'd need to edit it so we register of course (and for pre-mades that could be great, who doesn't want a team name?), but it essentially allows the solo queue rating to be much more personal, rather than a simple win/lose thing. Losing can still be "punishing", but with rating being more personal because it's tied to Jobs now, you can effectively overcome that by just being good. Died lots? Obviously that's going to negatively impact your rating, regardless of whether your team won or not. Scored loads of kills? Same thing, that'll raise your rating, regardless of the overall outcome.

Honestly, for solo queues I'd actually be much more interested in seeing rankings by Job... It allows you to essentially base rating on personal stats (K/D/A), rather than victory rate... Heck, it doesn't even need to be limited to Feast in that regard... Something like a Mentor Roulette, perhaps? "<Job> Ranking Roulette", which could involve all forms of PvP (though Fold/Secure/Slaughter would need updating with LV60 and Assists), but with the same basic mechanic for passing qualifiers and so on.

Dark Knight

Just spit-balling here, I'd say the Job definitely needs some fine tuning, I'm likely to tired/frustrated to be making rational suggestions at this point though;

Make Dark Knights cross-class skills come from Gladiator and Lancer, rather than Marauder... That's even a PvE change I wanted, granted TP management is a lot better on the Job now... As far as PvP goes though, Feint would be a nice counter against healers, and Blood for Blood could help push the Jobs DPS, which given its abysmal utility should be exceptional... It would still be a liability, since Blood for Bloods thing is kinda going to have you needing more heals, but it at least has a solid pay off - more DPS.

Give Blood Weapon and Blood Price Dark Arts effects, which have them drain HP. Again, another change I want to see in general, not really PvP specific, but the Jobs horrendous self healing could do with being addressed...

Rework Tar Pit into an Aura effect; Somewhat similar to Collective Unconscious, except you retain the ability to move around and attack. Rather than a flat 150/180 potency attack, it becomes a DoT that drains HP. This would work nicely with Dark Knights chase ability (which is really the only thing it excels at) while potentially also being a worthwhile self heal... Seriously, Tar Pit is on a fairly long cooldown, who thought it was a good idea to have it return such low numbers, especially when Abyssal Drain can be spammed...

Give Dark Knight a new PvP skill, essentially something similar to Cover/Clemency. You take 20% of your HP and give it to an ally. Again, playing on the idea that Dark Knight requires more attention from their healer, but actually giving us a pay off... Whether that works as "Up to 20%" and if you don't have 20% you lose/heal less, or if it works like a Sole Survivor type heal I'll leave to someone else... It would stack nicely with Living Dead if it were the later...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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One of the best posts on the current situation so far. Agreed on pretty much everything except the quitting part. I'm masochistic and absolutely will keep trying and hoping RNG favors me with competent team mates.(I should probably just stop bothering with solo and do premade only)

Doesn't change how bad this setup is for anyone who'd actually like to be competitive.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Agreed on pretty much everything except the quitting part.

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Honestly, I'll probably be back... I do enjoy it, but I just had one too many parties that do not listen in a row, and I just had to throw my controller down and vent... I should probably go get that Pa-paya roll...

1. Can we get better notification (visual) that coins are on the ground?
2. Can we get a notification of a teammate who picked up said coins?
3. Can we have some type of icon on the mini map to help point us to coins on the ground?
4. Can a player with a kill streak be highlighted with fire? As a fun visual, but also to tell the other team. (Just a thought)
5. Can DRK get a debuff (Mind perhaps) on it's hate building combo? (Wishlist)
6. Can we get more maps? - Perhaps some set in different areas of the world map. :)

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Honestly, I'll probably be back... I do enjoy it, but I just had one too many parties that do not listen in a row, and I just had to throw my controller down and vent... I should probably go get that Pa-paya roll...

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Yeah I think this is probably the most I've cursed in a long time because of how frustrating it is. My current favorite matches are, Getting a tank that only DPS' and refuses to pick up medals, Getting AFK players, healers especially, and my personal favorite "I'm only here for eso", and having the tank take the offense buff as they go after a DPS the entire match while the other healer freecasts.

Good times.

AST is purely overpowered. You cant get him down, he heals himself so fast while moving.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

AST is purely overpowered. You cant get him down, he heals himself so fast while moving.

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In 4v4 (Party) White Mage is already better than Astrologian in every comp that doesn't involve Black Mage, are you trying to make AST useless?

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

AST is purely overpowered. You cant get him down, he heals himself so fast while moving.

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It depends on AST personal skill, if its your common FotM AST those can still be soloed by WAR/DRG for example. Now if its actually skilled AST then they can be pain in the ass but if you split the DMG their job becomes harder due weakers heals, like straigus said good WHM's are alot more annoying because their awesome raw healing and superior utility(heavy, bind, sleep)amongst all healers, oh and they also have Bene... god i hate that skill :P

Hello, everyone. Producer and Director Yoshida here.

Allow me to thank you all for your feedback on our newest PvP addition, the Feast! I would like to take a moment to talk a little about some adjustments we’re planning to make, based on your comments and on our own experiences playing on the public servers. These adjustments will be made in two installments, starting with patch 3.22, which is scheduled for 3/17 JST, and patch 3.25 (please note that we may make additional changes if we deem them necessary.)

System Changes

Match Time Limits

We’ve received feedback that many players feel both 4 on 4 and 8 on 8 matches go on for too long. Therefore, we will be reducing all match time limits from 10 minutes to 8 minutes with patch 3.22.

Moreover, we are currently discussing whether or not to adjust the number of medals required for a team to claim victory outright, so any feedback you can provide regarding this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Improving the Flow of Battle

Many players have commented that casual 8 on 8 matches can feel stale and boring. Because inexperienced players are more likely to divide their attacks and each team contains two healers, it can be difficult to KO opponents.

Therefore, in an effort to hasten the flow of battle, we will be making adjustments to Culling Time, as well as the frequency and placement of supply boxes.

Starting in patch 3.2, players in 8 on 8 matches will be afflicted by Culling Time at the following intervals:

• 1st stack: 2:00 → 1:00
• 2nd stack: 2:30 → 1:30
• 3rd stack: 3:00 → 2:00
• 4th stack: 3:30 → 2:30
• 5th stack: 4:30 → 3:00

We believe this will result in increased KOs and discourage teams from playing defensively to protect a lead.

The adjustments we are planning to make to supply box placement, quantity, and frequency in both 4 on 4 and 8 on 8 matches is for a similar purpose—to further encourage the use of supply kits and make matches more exciting.

A number of you have made similar requests in the same vein—that we reduce the number of barriers in the center of the arenas to improve line of sight, that we adjust the rate at which adrenaline builds, and so forth. Rest assured that we are carefully considering these suggestions.

However, to be clear, for patch 3.22, we are only planning to make adjustments to Culling Time for 8 on 8 matches. The aforementioned changes to supply boxes, as well as any potential changes to map barriers, will be made in patch 3.25.

Tanks and Heavy Medal

As previously explained, one of our main objectives with these changes is to make matches faster and more dynamic, and so we would like to address the problem that tanks, even when afflicted with Heavy Medal, are more difficult to KO than intended.

To that end, with patch 3.22, a stack of Heavy Medal will increase damage received by 15% (currently 10%) Furthermore, we will be reducing the medal counts at which players incur another stack of Heavy Medal.

• 1st stack: 150 → 150 10% → 15%
• 2nd stack: 200 → 170 20% → 30%
• 3rd stack: 225 → 190 30% → 45%
• 4th stack: 250 → 200 40% → 60%
• 5th stack: 260 → 210 50% → 75%
• 6th stack: 270 → 220 60% → 90%
• 7th stack: 280 → 230 70% → 105%
• 8th stack: 290 → 240 80% → 120%
• 9th stack: 300 → 250 90% → 135%

We believe these changes will help to prevent matches from becoming stale by forcing players to change tactics, as tanks carrying multiple stacks of Heavy Medal will be easier to KO, and teams will be encouraged to distribute their medals among players more equally.

Casting Interruptions and Ranged Physical DPS Penalties

A great many players had the following to say about PvPing as casters:

• It’s too difficult to play as a healer.
• It’s too hard to cast spells in PvP

To be fair, healers who join a PvP match for the first time are likely to struggle, as they are frequently targeted and have much greater difficulty casting spells than they would in PvE situations. This situation is further exacerbated by the fact that Sprint does not consume TP in PvP (which beginners may not even be aware of, much less accustomed to), allowing opponents to quickly close the gap and interrupt their casting.

As previously stated, our aim is to make battles faster and more dynamic. And so, in addition to making supply boxes more useful, we want to reduce the burden currently placed on healers and shift strategies away from, “KO the healer to stop healing” and more towards, “Focus on dealing damage through heals and KO opponents.”

We have decided to make significant changes to spell casting functionality in order to achieve this goal.

• Damage received is less than 15% of max HP → Casting succeeds.
• Damage received is 15% or more of max HP → Casting is interrupted.
• Sleep/Stun/Silence → Casting is interrupted (no change).

While these changes will make it easier to interrupt a caster with a series of combo actions or critical hit, it will also prevent casters from being interrupted by anything less than a committed attack. If players want to consistently interrupt a player’s casting, they will need to adapt their playstyle and rely more heavily on Stun, Sleep, and Silence.

That being said, it was a very difficult decision for us to settle on 15%, so we would greatly appreciate it if you could let us know whether or not you feel this threshold is appropriate.

Many players also voiced concerns regarding ranged physical DPS classes, like bard and machinist, which currently suffer damage penalties when attacking opponents at significant range.

To address this issue, from patch 3.22, players under the effect of Wanderer’s Minuet or Gauss Barrel will not suffer damage penalties due to distance. However, please note that these penalties will still apply when these abilities are not in use.

Job-specific Changes

Arcanist/Summoner

Following the release of Seal Rock, we received a great deal of feedback from players worrying that summoner burst damage might be overpowered. However, we could not evaluate the situation based on data from Seal Rock alone, and so we were not ready to make adjustments until after many players participated in the Feast’s 4 on 4 rated matches. We have since concluded that summoner burst damage is indeed exceedingly high, as well as the total damage dealt over the course of a match via dots.

To rectify the situation, we will be making significant adjustments to summoner PvP abilities with patch 3.22.

I won’t go into the details here, but if you wish to review the specific changes, please refer to the patch notes.

I should also mention that we have received a great deal of feedback regarding dark knight and ninja, and at the moment we are testing adjustments intended to improve their performance in PvP. These changes are currently planned for patch 3.25, and we ask that you please wait a little longer.

We will continue to gather your feedback and make adjustments to player matching and other systems in preparation for season one of the Feast, which begins with patch 3.25. While many of these adjustments are prioritized for this patch, if we determine that there are significant balancing issues that must first be addressed, then as previously stated, we may have to delay the official start of season one for one to two weeks.

We know that PvP is a demanding pastime that not everyone enjoys, and we cannot tell you enough how much we value the feedback you all provide, which helps us to fine tune this content. We hope that you will keep on playing and keep on telling us what you think!

I's suggest making the interrupt mechanics more dynamic.

At least allow casters to gain a buff each time they are interrupted in a manner that is from dmg. So if they are dealt 15% dmg then the next time the melee would have to deal 20%, then 25% then 30% up to 40% but once the caster does get a successful cast off the buff would wear off. But also make this buff last maybe 10 seconds, so it can't be something that they run around with for a few minutes and use to cast a nearly uninterrupted sleep or such.

I just do think that making it a stagnant 15% may make casters even more of a target because now players would have a known factor to saying, ok if both DD roles focus the caster they will never get a chance to cast. Cause say at 9k HP you only need to deal about 1350 to interrupt them. So if two DD just pummel the poor caster, the caster will never get a chance to cast but if you at least increase the interrupt treshold each time they fail then you at least give them a fighting chance to get out of being ganged up on like that.

Thanks for the notification, In regards to their burst damage i wouldn't say it is over powered in the slightest. its justified compared to the little damage they can deal throughout the next min. Ninjas also i would disagree with needing a buff, however with that change in casting interrupts it may be just about right as a ninja can consistently interrupt a healer.

I like the changes to bard, dark knight and machinist they are little underwhelming when confronted with the feast, a good justified buff.

Also as far as tanks go with heavy medal. i wouldn't say it was a problem other than when your dealing with a PLD, that defensive wall XD warriors and DRKs tend to melt quite easily at 3 stacks let alone 9.

I think changing the amount of medals needed to win is a terrible idea. this puts more pressure than their is already on the healer, also, seems a tad unfair as more times than not if your healer dies all four die and its game game. but from what im reading here it would be if 3 people die instead of 4 its game. should be interesting.!

also i like the time frame of the current match's its enough to buff up and start round two if you had an unlucky start. and considering match's tend to end before the time needed this is enough. if we reduce the time we are getting closer to Fold and that's not something the majority want.

Also nice to see culling time being more frequent too many games when you never see it.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone. Producer and Director Yoshida here.

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Very happy to see job tuning happening already. Will be providing 4 on 4 Light Party feedback. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

The adjustments we are planning to make to supply box placement, quantity, and frequency in both 4 on 4 and 8 on 8 matches is for a similar purpose—to further encourage the use of supply kits and make matches more exciting.

A number of you have made similar requests in the same vein—that we reduce the number of barriers in the center of the arenas to improve line of sight, that we adjust the rate at which adrenaline builds, and so forth. Rest assured that we are carefully considering these suggestions.
However, to be clear, for patch 3.22, we are only planning to make adjustments to Culling Time for 8 on 8 matches. The aforementioned changes to supply boxes, as well as any potential changes to map barriers, will be made in patch 3.25.

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Please don't touch either of these things. The boxes are making melee damage way too high and it's over all gimmicky. The center of the map is fine and makes you choose between receiving heals or pursuing targets. I can't help but get the feeling that you aren't thinking of competitive 4v4 in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Tanks and Heavy Medal[INDENT]As previously explained, one of our main objectives with these changes is to make matches faster and more dynamic, and so we would like to address the problem that tanks, even when afflicted with Heavy Medal, are more difficult to KO than intended.

To that end, with patch 3.22, a stack of Heavy Medal will increase damage received by 15% (currently 10%) Furthermore, we will be reducing the medal counts at which players incur another stack of Heavy Medal.

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Good

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Casting Interruptions and Ranged Physical DPS Penalties[INDENT]A great many players had the following to say about PvPing as casters:

• It’s too difficult to play as a healer.
• It’s too hard to cast spells in PvP

To be fair, healers who join a PvP match for the first time are likely to struggle, as they are frequently targeted and have much greater difficulty casting spells than they would in PvE situations. This situation is further exacerbated by the fact that Sprint does not consume TP in PvP (which beginners may not even be aware of, much less accustomed to), allowing opponents to quickly close the gap and interrupt their casting.

As previously stated, our aim is to make battles faster and more dynamic. And so, in addition to making supply boxes more useful, we want to reduce the burden currently placed on healers and shift strategies away from, “KO the healer to stop healing” and more towards, “Focus on dealing damage through heals and KO opponents.”

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So you're balancing the game around new healers....? This isn't going to end well. Now Bards aren't going to be able to interrupt anyone without having WM on and likewise for MCH. BLMs and Healer potency just got extremely scary in high level play...

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

To address this issue, from patch 3.22, players under the effect of Wanderer’s Minuet or Gauss Barrel will not suffer damage penalties due to distance. However, please note that these penalties will still apply when these abilities are not in use.

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That's not nearly enough if you're changing spell cast interruption. You're still treating our damage like a support PVE dps yet we share the same role as real dps and our support skills aren't really a valid reason for us to not do full damage. You REALLY need to rethink this.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Job-specific Changes[INDENT]Arcanist/Summoner[INDENT]Following the release of Seal Rock, we received a great deal of feedback from players worrying that summoner burst damage might be overpowered. However, we could not evaluate the situation based on data from Seal Rock alone, and so we were not ready to make adjustments until after many players participated in the Feast’s 4 on 4 rated matches. We have since concluded that summoner burst damage is indeed exceedingly high, as well as the total damage dealt over the course of a match via dots.

To rectify the situation, we will be making significant adjustments to summoner PvP abilities with patch 3.22.

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I hope you mean all of their abilities because their PvP specific abilities aren't the problem at all. SMN needs some real adjustments so happy to see otherwise.

As I stated in another thread the whole rank system is way to complex for how many players you have and it worries me to see you not address the point gain/loss in ranked as well as the insane grind it takes to get to the higher tiers within a season.

PLEASE DON'T BALANCE THIS AROUND NEW PLAYERS

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone. Producer and Director Yoshida here.

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Thank you first for bringing the Feast - my FC and I are thoroughly enjoying it and we are PvE-ers!

I also agree with the majority of your adjustments. I have often gone in on SMN and literally become a corpse within seconds if our healer is being bugged by Tanks, which is understandable as I really can throw out burst, but has anyone considered a resolution to this being locking direct damage dealing Aetherflow abilities to a shared CD in PvP? it would ultimately solve this "SMN nuke" meta, which is further reinforced by the opposition focusing us meaning we have to resort to it anyway otherwise its a waste of the Aetherflow stack. It would then lower our "notority" in PvP allowing us to play our stacks carefully (as intended) thus allowing for a less "nuke" focused class like BLM already is and instead act as a DoT spreading attrition class, which is what SMN's archtype falls into and should remain. I enjoy SMN in PvE but the current situation is very stressful in PvP on casters/healers which hopefully the new stun/interupt changes will start to remedy.

I would also oppose making the arena easier by removing barriers as they add much needed cover for said classes above as well as offer fun ways to LoS - it should remain tactical to remove threats and thus i fear removing such obstacles will just encourage some sort of stand off in the middle and who can nuke the others fastest (though possibly could encourage play on lower levels?)

Again thank you for being so quick with adjustments, just please consider where SMN falls in terms of it's niche/playstyle before firing nerfs on DoT damage, when the clear issue is the ability to expend all your stacks in a matter for a few seconds for cheap kills. SMN damage will ultimately be higher due to Bane but that doesnt always show in "kills" which again I personally believe is what SMN is about - high spread damage with an average single target equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

If players want to consistently interrupt a player’s casting, they will need to adapt their playstyle and rely more heavily on Stun, Sleep, and Silence.

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/Quits Dark Knight.

Lets be honest here... Players cannot adapt their playstyle like this... Groups can, groups can adapts so that they have Stun/Sleep/Silence available to counter casters, but individuals? No, and given 4 on 4 - Solo is where the rewards will be... Yeah... An entirely moot point for an adjustment that just further marginalizes not-Paladin, and to top it all off I saw no mention of adjusting how rating works in 4 on 4 - Solo... Meh...

Don't even get me started on how utterly broken Astrologian is going to be with those interrupt changes... Aspected Benefic might as well be a spammable Surecast now...

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Job-specific Changes

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Don't tease me with that heading and then only talk about Summoner... :(

Seriously, Dark Knight needs an adjustment... It has no real utility. It has no real self healing. DPS is the only thing it can boast, and even then, Warrior can do better... All while not being tied down by MP management... Dark Knight is nothing more than a massive liability... The balance here is atrocious...

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

• 1st stack: 150 → 150 10% → 15%
• 2nd stack: 200 → 170 20% → 30%
• 3rd stack: 225 → 190 30% → 45%
• 4th stack: 250 → 200 40% → 60%
• 5th stack: 260 → 210 50% → 75%
• 6th stack: 270 → 220 60% → 90%
• 7th stack: 280 → 230 70% → 105%
• 8th stack: 290 → 240 80% → 120%
• 9th stack: 300 → 250 90% → 135%

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DPS limit breaks are going to be even more crazy

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

• It’s too difficult to play as a healer.
• It’s too hard to cast spells in PvP

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Maybe this is little better for SCH and BLM. Is this applied at Seal Rock also?

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Job-specific Changes

Arcanist/Summoner

Following the release of Seal Rock, we received a great deal of feedback from players worrying that summoner burst damage might be overpowered. However, we could not evaluate the situation based on data from Seal Rock alone, and so we were not ready to make adjustments until after many players participated in the Feast’s 4 on 4 rated matches. We have since concluded that summoner burst damage is indeed exceedingly high, as well as the total damage dealt over the course of a match via dots.

To rectify the situation, we will be making significant adjustments to summoner PvP abilities with patch 3.22.

I won’t go into the details here, but if you wish to review the specific changes, please refer to the patch notes.

I should also mention that we have received a great deal of feedback regarding dark knight and ninja, and at the moment we are testing adjustments intended to improve their performance in PvP. These changes are currently planned for patch 3.25, and we ask that you please wait a little longer.

We will continue to gather your feedback and make adjustments to player matching and other systems in preparation for season one of the Feast, which begins with patch 3.25. While many of these adjustments are prioritized for this patch, if we determine that there are significant balancing issues that must first be addressed, then as previously stated, we may have to delay the official start of season one for one to two weeks.

We know that PvP is a demanding pastime that not everyone enjoys, and we cannot tell you enough how much we value the feedback you all provide, which helps us to fine tune this content. We hope that you will keep on playing and keep on telling us what you think!

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I sincerely hope you're team is aware that SMN has NOTHING besides that burst damage. If SMNs receive a nerf to burst damage in PvP they will need massive buffs elsewhere to make their sustained damage anywhere equivalent to other jobs. Let's not forget that burst is only once every 60 seconds at best as well, and outside that brief window SMNs are already basically just spamming Tri-Bind and tickling people to annoy them... If you're going to take that burst away then give SMNs back the heal debuff or the heavy on their dots at least.

I'm also not sure why you're even looking at the total damage done stat. It is a meaningless stat on its own as it is the speed that damage is delivered that determines how effective it is in PvP. Summoners might deal 200-300k+ damage via dots over the course of a fight but it's dealt so slowly that healers can easily just heal through it.

This also contradicts your desire to move away from a 'focus the healer' meta. The only way people can NOT focus the healer is with burst damage...

I guess after all the other changes you guys made in Frontlines I just don't trust you to actually know what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

I'm also not sure why you're even looking at the total damage done stat. It is a meaningless stat on its own as it is the speed that damage is delivered that determines how effective it is in PvP. Summoners might deal 200-300k+ damage via dots over the course of a fight but it's dealt so slowly that healers can easily just heal through it.

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That's not really true. While burst damage is usually the most important, being able to bane buffed DoTs on entire parties put a lot of pressure on the healers. Instead of concentrating on healing themselves or a priority target, they have to aoe heal instead, leaving a single target open for burst. Damage doesn't have to result in a kill to be useful, it can also be used as a tool to apply pressure.

Honestly the AMOUNT of damage that SMN deals isn't really the problem though, it's how easy and quick it is to do while still being safe. I'd reckon that MCH and DRG can output higher burst, and probably BLM too. But they can't do it without putting themselves at risk due to cast times or having to be in melee range, so it's a tradeoff. SMN gets great burst while at safe distance, and it's all instant cast and can be prepped before an engagement. So it's not really fair.