Final Fantasy 14 is starting to lose appeal because...

I still don't know why some of you white knights are so against open world content that adds to end game progression. Why must everything be the same 2 instances every patch? Have any of you ever played Ragnarok Online, Vanguard, Lineage 2, Archeage, Aion? Obviously these mmos did things wrong and things right, but the only thing that's open world right now is mindless gathering and farming for mats to level up crafting that doesn't even give anything worth a damn. For all you people who argues that there are hunts, fates, etc... it takes less than 2 weeks to finish that content where it doesn't help you progress anymore.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

I still don't know why some of you white knights are so against open world content that adds to end game progression. Why must everything be the same 2 instances every patch? Have any of you ever played Ragnarok Online, Vanguard, Lineage 2, Archeage, Aion? Obviously these mmos did things wrong and things right, but the only thing that's open world right now is mindless gathering and farming for mats to level up crafting that doesn't even give anything worth a damn. For all you people who argues that there are hunts, fates, etc... it takes less than 2 weeks to finish that content where it doesn't help you progress anymore.

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They're not against it (wow, here we go with the labeling). Some are just content with the game the way it is (I'm one of them) while others want change which that is okay (I don't mind change), but don't expect it to arrive in such quick notice, you gotta wait for it. Waited too long? Then..yeah, that's up to you on what you want to do. No feelings hurt here, I'm just gonna keep playing.

Off topic starting note. I only "liked" the OP because they had 99 likes and it bugged me that it wasn't 100.....

Anyhow. I will agree that right now there is just a lot of grinding to the endgame, and it's actually what finally caused me to take a two week break that I just came back from last week, (the first break for longer than a couple of days I've taken since I started playing 8 months ago). That being said, I'm fully back and tackling that grind now, and while it can be a pain at times, it's no where near as annoying or tedious as a lot of games I've played. It also helps to have a few friends that you consistently play with, that you do said runs together with, but can also do other things with such as leveling up other classes, chasing down treasure maps, or even obliterating unsynced dungeons with just because you can. The trick is to get some friends together who aren't purely focused on that grind, and figure out something you can all do together......

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Join date- July 2015 >_> Give it time. Most of us had an open mind in 2.0, until seeing the same old content formula for every single update (2-3 dungeons, 2 of which being rehashed older dungeons, 1 primal, 1 8 or 24 man raid). Where's all that content from 2.0 - 2.55 you ask? Dead and obsolete. Most (like dungeon gear or some primals) are obsolete on release.

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Darling the date that you are looking at is when I joined the forums. I've been part of the ffxiv family since 2.0 as well and I'm still not bored. ^^

Tbh i think we will see tons of new features when PS3 supports drops, because that piece of shit is currently holding this game as an hostage.

Most MMO's go through a "honeymoon" phase with someone and then start to get stale even with new content.

If you go somewhere else, it will seem better for a while but it's all the same in the end.

I'd say it's just a fault of the genre in general. Generating reply value is a tricky business. In the end it seems there is always grinding.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So a handful of people posting on the forums is everyone. Ergo, the game is actually only populated by a few hundred people.

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There is actually a quite large consensus concerning the shortcomings of the game.

As you can see in this reddit topic : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ring_game_and/ , the main rebutal is like 378 upvote strong.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

There is actually a quite large consensus concerning the shortcomings of the game.

As you can see in this reddit topic : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ring_game_and/ , the main rebutal is like 378 upvote strong.

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Thats still a handful of people (vocal minority) though 378 people agree the games stale out of 82446 on the Subreddit.

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Originally Posted by Vinestra

Thats still a handful of people (vocal minority) though 378 people agree the games stale out of 82446 on the Subreddit.

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It is called sampling (especially amongst people who still care about the game to be vocal, who many don't even care enough anymore to even post ?).

Also most people who don't see the shortcoming of the game are actually either 1) new players who are still leveling, or didn't experience the 2.0 2) ultra casuals who play the game to glamour their gear while doing gardening in their FC house.

Nobody in their right mind would defend the game design choices made in FFXIV (especially regarding fates or lack of content at level 60, I m saying content, not stuff to grind on the same tiny scrap of content).

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Nobody in their right mind would defend the game design choices made in FFXIV (especially regarding fates or lack of content at level 60, I m saying content, not stuff to grind on the same tiny scrap of content).

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So, hypothetically speaking, if the developers came here to defend the design choices they made, they're just crazy and need to leave?

I'm not defending them, mind, just asking a question.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

So, hypothetically speaking, if the developers came here to defend the design choices they made, they're just crazy and need to leave?

I'm not defending them, mind, just asking a question.

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The developers don't believe it's impossible for them to do wrong unlike some of their fans, they value feedback greatly and Yoshida and the team have made that very clear. They rarely ever post on the forums to begin with, and the chances of them in posting in this thread or one similar (the actual devs, not community managers) would be slim to none. But regardless, they wouldn't mindlessly defend their choices and attempt to silence people like players have been doing. They'd listen to the feedback and see how they could improve their choices going forward.

I really don't understand those telling people to quit. Okay, you're fine to enjoy the game as most of us to, you're allowed to not be bored, no one's going to take that away from you, but to come in and pretty much say "Your feedback is invalid because you're burnt out, go take a break, or quit a find another game" is silly. How do you think game has reached this point from 1.0, how do you think it will keep improving? That's right, the feedback. To say the forum and the subreddit is a minority is correct, but the people who post on these sites are people who likely care a lot for the game to improve and want to see it reach new heights, not just stagnate... you can't just dismiss them because they're the minority, if not for this minority who'd be voicing their suggestions? The people playing the game who don't care? The people who've only played for a month and may not even know about the forums (meaning they can't express them to begin with)? That's right, they'll get close to no feedback, and as I said earlier, the team values feedback and it's incredibly important that the dev team knows what the players want.

This is why people people provide feedback, they want the game to improve and last a long time because, believe it or not, they enjoy it. They just don't want it to be left behind. The standard MMORPG is a dying genre, new players just aren't common enough to keep constantly replacing people who get tired of the same formula. The same thing happened to WoW and FFXI, they could no longer attract newer players at the rate they needed to, but they have a dedicated and loyal fanbase. That's what kept those game's alive, and still keeping WoW in its place as the most popular MMORPG, but even the devs stated that they're now losing players significantly faster than new ones join in. Yoshida and the team need to build that loyalty, and get people to love the game for years to come, not just abandon them in hopes new players will join. They had a boost of initial popularity because of the positive media surrounding a "reborn" MMO of an incredible failure (1.0), and of couse the Final Fantasy name. They need to build on that, not throw it all away.

That's what I believe anyway, I hope I got my point across clearly. :)

i would kill for some random generated dungeon , random floors , random objetives , fun times! , it could be boring after a while? yeah everything gets boring , but content can last more time than static dungeons with same mechanics.... every day.

it doesnt help that we have 2 Expert dungeons only ....why The Aetherochemical Research Facility isnt on expert is beyond me , because the dungeon art is cool , 2nd boss is a Coil boss mix ! , and the last boss has ultima theme ;)

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

So, hypothetically speaking, if the developers came here to defend the design choices they made, they're just crazy and need to leave?

I'm not defending them, mind, just asking a question.

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They almost never talk about their game design philosophy, which is quite understandable because it really doesn't seem to be the focus of FFXIV, as it stands.

It should tell you something when during live letters they mostly show off gear, mounts and/or pets rather than focusing on the game design of the new content.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

snippy

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Of course, feedback is essential. And I'd like to think deep down, as rude and obscene as some users seem to be on this forum (not pointing at anyone in particular), it's because they care for the game and want to see it thrive rather than abandon it.

The only problem I see is how feedback is provided, at least in the EN forums.

I'm sure many will hate me for drawing the comparison, but humor me in a small look at the JP DPS forum.

Only 15 pages.

On the first page I see:
Suggestion thread for DPS meters - 520 pages
Rogue / Ninja suggestion thread - 64 pages
Machinist suggestion thread - 35 pages
Monk suggestion thread - 80 pages
Summoner suggestion thread - 115 pages

Someone actually tried to make a separate summoner related thread on 9/12. It was closed, and they were redirected to the larger one. Some of these threads date back as far as November of last year, and they're still on the front page. They tend to stick to one spot, and throw everything in for the developers to peruse through.

Providing feedback in other languages, however, provides a number of obstacles. The primary being that we are not their primary language. I imagine it's up to the community team to compile our thoughts and relay them, but woe unto he who must wade through... whatever you want to call the English forums... for constructive, thoughtful criticism and feedback, translate it, and relay it to them for consideration.

If I was a developer, a single 300 page thread of player feedback and criticism that's well thought out would make me more concerned than 100 smaller threads that all got pushed back 5th, 10th, and 20th pages of the forum because everyone wants to be heard as an individual.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Extremely valuable post.

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Anyone planning to write "take a break, this game isn't for you" or other things should read quoted post.
Taking a break isn't a solution. Solution is to provide people with more variability of stuff to do when there are too many burned out peeps.
I had only a small break about a year ago and I am still having lots of fun, but I can completely understand that people can get bored and saying "please give us more variety content + suggestions" is really reasonable feedback.

In my opinion constructive negative feedback is probably even more valuable to developers than positive feedback, if not, then it is atleast on par with it.

I believe things feel repetitive in ffxiv because everything ends so fast. Back in ffxi a lot of stuff you did took hours, but in ffxiv everything is like around 40 minutes or less to complete. So you end up doing It over and over a lot more frequently instead of finishing something in ffxi, and not going back to that for a very long time.

Also in ffxi it seemed to have a much more veritety to the stuff you did like the questing. In 14 however, all the quest's are just talk to npc, deliver an item from one to another, kill 3 or 5 of something report back, or walk to a circle kill mobs that spawn then report back. That's basically all there is with questing in this game.

Wasn't like that at all back in ffxi days.

I keep trying to explain to you guys the chances of a developer messaging in a forum thread is akin to the dishwasher serving your food at a Swiss chalet. In the IT industry devs code what they're told to and that's it. They have no say in what or in most cases even how its coded.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I really don't understand those telling people to quit. Okay, you're fine to enjoy the game as most of us to, you're allowed to not be bored, no one's going to take that away from you, but to come in and pretty much say "Your feedback is invalid because you're burnt out, go take a break, or quit a find another game" is silly.

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I am one of the people telling people to take breaks, and your quoted comment is a misunderstanding of what I am saying.

It is FAR preferable for people to take a break, refresh themselves, and then potentially come back to the game. Forcing yourself to play a game you're not enjoying because you feel obligated to is the fastest way to burn yourself out and ensure that you NEVER return to that game.

Of course your feedback is valuable. Think of it like a restaurant: If a restaurant you enjoy suddenly comes under new management and you don't like their service now, what do you do? You leave a negative review on Yelp and you don't come back until things change. You don't keep subjecting yourself to a restaurant that you don't like.

So no, please don't misconstrue "take a break" as "LOL W/E DIDN'T READ JUST QUIT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!" I'm saying if you are genuinely upset with the game's direction, leave your feedback and consider voting with your wallet, because frankly there is no form of voting more powerful.

People don't want to take a break because of tome caps.

I think and I'm very sure about this. The main problem is the lack of content at level 60. And no people please stop using the then level another class excuse because yes its not end game content which is what people are complaining about.

Back on topic. Its the fact that we had a level cap raise this expansion they had to put stuff in to get you from 50-60 there for level 60 content took a hit if the cap was never raised in the expansion in very sure that people wouldn't be complaining because then pretty much everything would be end game.


Maybe next expansion they will not raise the level cap but instead (and I hate suggesting this cause I really hate the idea but probly the only way to fix things.) Have a skill raise system put in no level cap increase maybe like the merit system FFXI had this would mean all classes at level 60 would instead get exp that you convert into stat raises and at lest 2 new traits and ability's.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

People don't want to take a break because of tome caps.

I think and I'm very sure about this. The main problem is the lack of content at level 60.

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Capping tomes means nothing at this point unless you are pushing Savage. BisEX/RavEX/Alex Normal can all be done easily in 170 gear. 3.1 will likely contain gear that is of a higher ilvl and is easier to get than Eso gear right now, Void Ark is likely to have only an ilvl requirement of 180 or something (Labyrinth of the Ancients was only ilvl 50 which was VERY easy to get back when it was released.)

Sure you will be ahead of the curve, but they constantly implement catch-up mechanics and you really aren't harshly punished for taking a break. I quit at the end of 2.1, came back shortly after World of Darkness was released and was upgrading my ilvl70 pieces to ilvl120 pieces in no time.

And yes you are correct, the main problem is lack of meaningful endgame PVE content.

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Originally Posted by adn

Capping tomes means nothing at this point unless you are pushing Savage. BisEX/RavEX/Alex Normal can all be done easily in 170 gear. 3.1 will likely contain gear that is of a higher ilvl and is easier to get than Eso gear right now, Void Ark is likely to have only an ilvl requirement of 180 or something (Labyrinth of the Ancients was only ilvl 50 which was VERY easy to get back when it was released.)

Sure you will be ahead of the curve, but they constantly implement catch-up mechanics and you really aren't harshly punished for taking a break. I quit at the end of 2.1, came back shortly after World of Darkness was released and was upgrading my ilvl70 pieces to ilvl120 pieces in no time.

And yes you are correct, the main problem is lack of meaningful endgame PVE content.

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LotA was also supposed to be out in 2.0.X, though. It got delayed a long time because they ran into tuning issues.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

LotA was also supposed to be out in 2.0.X, though. It got delayed a long time because they ran into tuning issues.

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You'd think they would have fixed that too in 3.0, releasing that before the "harder" higher ilvl raids, but nope, still "higher ilvl raid followed by subpar gear raid" :/ Even that would have slightly given us more to do, so we'd get the option to gear up in that while farming tomes, rather than having full eso and either not even bothering with void ark gear or just using it on jobs we probably won't use.

Sad part is, I bet it was tuned fine, seeing as how it was incredibly easy. They're just trying too hard to cater to the super casual never played a game in their life, type of people, which ends up pushing away a lot of people who don't fit that category (casual, midcore, hardcore). Just like what they did with the lvl 15 MSQ fight. Had a little difficulty to it (I remember so many people wiping to this over and over) in beta, then nerfed to faceroll easy on release. Same reason we don't have a real pet job. Straight from SE was "It'd be difficult for new players". Ok? Then new players can either learn or just not play that job, why ruin it for everyone?

The potential for XIV to be great is there, but SE is holding it back by focusing too much on glamour, minions and super mega casual fluff content, rather than actual mmo style content. Like I've said in a few other topics, most people come to a mmo to actually play a mmo and do content. Theres specific games that focus on glamour/vanity, it doesn't need to be the main focus of a mmo (can be part, but not the main). The way XIV is setup and according to Yoshi himself, the "real game starts at endgame" yet because they focus way too much effort on vanity stuff, theres a huge lack of content at endgame, which is supposed to be "the real game".

All it's going to take to decimate XIV's remaining population is for a big new shiny mmo to come out, since SE puts too much effort into attracting the types of players (super mega casual) that flock from mmo to mmo, rather than the midcore/hardcore playerbase that keep mmos alive for 10+ years. It's fine to try to cater to both, as long as theres an even amount of content for both groups. But there really isn't in XIV. It feels like the content for midcore/hardcore people is just an after thought and tacked on in the end.

SE kinda has it backwards for XIV imo. For a business, a person who subs to a mmo every month, without breaks (midcore/hardcore players who can play for more than 5 hours a day, every day/month), bringing in more money for said company, should hold more value (not saying the people who play an hour or less a day have no value) than the people who plays a mmo like a mobile/facebook game (30 mins - 1 hour, only ~4 days a week and maybe 5-6 months a year, if that, super mega casual), which brings in less money. SE is focusing on the 2nd one.

Even if they fully focused on midcore/hardcore players and gave us a variety in content, there's still plenty for a super mega casual player to do, seeing as they take their time, don't play for long etc, by the time they get to cap, there'd be plenty to do. But with the focus on super mega casuals, everyone who plays for more than 5 hours, really don't have much to do. Seeing as how the super mega casual people talk about how theres "plenty to do", is mostly because they haven't experienced it yet since they don't play often. But for those who do play a normal amount of hours for a mmo (since a mmo is supposed to be a time investment, not pick up, play, put down whenever and never get left behind), we've experienced the little content there is, so there's not much to do for us. Like others have said, midcore/hardcore are the heart of a mmo, it can't survive for long, especially on a subscription, with only the super mega casuals.

Going to bring it up, because it's a valid point, but in XI, people rarely, if ever, got bored or ran out of things to do. They didn't up and unsub for months until another update. No. They kept on playing, bringing in more money for SE, both the casuals and midcore/hardcore people. SE knew how to balance which groups they catered too, rather than heavily catering to super mega casuals and know what? XI's lasted 13 years. There's a reason for that. Companies seem to forget that these days and try to go for a quick buck, rather than a steady flow of cash for over a decade.

A mmo, like many modern mmos, who focus too much on super mega casuals or people who have never played a mmo before, have been proven they don't last long, because of lack of content for the people who actually want to play a mmo, how a mmo was meant to be played. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play a mmo, but theres games specifically meant to be picked up and played whenever. A mmo shouldn't and hasn't (until the last few years, which explains why the majority of those modern mmos are dead), it's meant to be a time investment to keep people playing for as long as possible. If you can pick up and play a mmo whenever, there's really no staying power, especially when it becomes a lobby game (instanced everything, dead open world) so there's no incentive to make friends, which is a good staying power.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Same reason we don't have a real pet job. Straight from SE was "It'd be difficult for new players". Ok? Then new players can either learn or just not play that job, why ruin it for everyone?

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If you ask me the actual limitation for a real pet class is because of PS3/PS4. Try playing SCH and doing proper fairy micro with a controller while also healing and stance dancing for DPS. It's like training to be a concert pianist.

Also, the problem is when they add challenging or different content the more casual players run up against it, can't faceroll it, and proceed to yell on the forums until it gets nerfed. The most recent example I can think of is Steps of Faith, which honestly didn't need to be nerfed at all but because mechanix r tuff it got the nerfbat. Thus you end up with the current stream of highly casual content.

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Originally Posted by adn

stuff

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That could be true for the pet job. I'm just saying what SE said themselves on why we can't. Which is a pretty lame excuse imo.

I agree, steps didn't even need to be nerfed, but people cry for nerfs if it involves any sort of thinking or effort, which is pretty sad :/ All nerfing everything that comes out does, is allows the people who don't want to learn, to be carried through content and allows them to join into pts of people who actually want to clear the content, but those carried people are causing unneeded wipes, because they never had to actually learn and put effort into something because nerfapalooza.

Going to sound like a jerk, but I really feel those people need to actually put in some effort and learn to play, rather than crying for nerfs, killing any fun/difficulty for others who actually enjoy that sort of thing. Steps felt like an achievement pre-nerf when you beat it. Which was great, more things need that, especially gear (but gets outdated too quick and handed to you too easy to be an achievement :/ ), but people these days want a trophy just for showing up. The nerf whiners are kinda holding the game back too. Where's the fun in beating a boss or completing a dungeon, when it's so easy, you can do it in your sleep?

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Originally Posted by adn

Also, the problem is when they add challenging or different content the more casual players run up against it, can't faceroll it, and proceed to yell on the forums until it gets nerfed. The most recent example I can think of is Steps of Faith, which honestly didn't need to be nerfed at all but because mechanix r tuff it got the nerfbat. Thus you end up with the current stream of highly casual content.

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Personally, I think the main reasons that "previously challenging content" like Steps of Faith and Pharos even get outcry for nerfs is because the dev team, for whatever reason, tacks them into bottlenecks that are bound to have these particular casual players passing through at regular intervals. Steps of Faith is a required trial for access to Heavensward, and MSQ, through the dev's designs, is a combination of faceroll-easy "fights" and click-and-talk-to NPCs littered throughout the world wherever the devs deign to put them; sometimes paired with a fetch quest. One of the biggest complaints was that a lot of players running it on their roulette immediately dropped-out upon loading into the trial due to how much of a headache the fight can end up being compared to everything else on that roulette. Pharos Sirius was dropped into the daily Roulette with 2 much easier dungeons, which offer the same rewards, prompting a lot of people to avoid it and take paths of least resistance.

So in my opinion, these contents that are dubbed to be "challenging" are thrown back at the devs by players who "don't want the challenge," are done so because the devs have decidedly shoved them down the throats of the facets of typical "casual content" that previously posed no real "challenge" at all. Don't get me wrong, I am not particularly defending the reasoning to why they were nerfed, but that it was inevitable since the devs decided to try posing a challenge and implementing them in the wrong places.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

MMOs are monsters that take a long time to make. The investment needs to pay off, which is why it's intended to last AT LEAST 10 years.

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Because they first need to lay a foundation. While perhaps a little overly cautious, the disastrous results of 1.0 meant ARR would be saddled attempting to reestablish an audience. This only happens by initially catering to the newcomers and casual crowds, which make up the vast majority of any game's playerbase. Funneling so much separate content would render the older portion of the game ghost towns - not a good entry way for a game still wanting to lure in more people.

YoshiD has said the training wheels will be coming off now that they've launched the first expansion. That isn't say the complaints here aren't warranted as a source of feedback, but I think it may be a bit premature. The next six months or so will likely determine if the direction they're heading down is the right one.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

All it's going to take to decimate XIV's remaining population is for a big new shiny mmo to come out,

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"And the next MMO that is going to kill WoW..."

Standard talk of all people who are dissatisfied with the MMO they're playing.

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Going to bring it up, because it's a valid point, but in XI, people rarely, if ever, got bored or ran out of things to do. They didn't up and unsub for months until another update. No. They kept on playing, bringing in more money for SE, both the casuals and midcore/hardcore people. SE knew how to balance which groups they catered too, rather than heavily catering to super mega casuals and know what? XI's lasted 13 years. There's a reason for that. Companies seem to forget that these days and try to go for a quick buck, rather than a steady flow of cash for over a decade.

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Ah yes. FF11's ever growing population. At no point did they have to shut down servers due to underpopulation... oh wait a second.
Yes, FF11 was so beloved and played by so many they had to reduce their servers from 32 to 16. Obviously they kept gaining new players over the years that were interested in the gameplay it was offering. That is also why they kept releasing new expansion after new expansion. Like one in 2007 and then the next in 2013 and the last before they stop doing anything for the game in 2015.

You honestly can't say "oh people loved FF11 and kept playing and subbing to it" and when you look at the actual data, they lost so many players they had to shut down half their servers and barely invested any more resources in new content.

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Originally Posted by Rakeesh

You honestly can't say "oh people loved FF11 and kept playing and subbing to it" and when you look at the actual data, they lost so many players they had to shut down half their servers and barely invested any more resources in new content.

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The point being, the game is still up and has been on a subscription for 13 years and gave a variety of content, rather than 2 dungeons, 1 raid, which get outdated in 3 months, compared to the countless other mmos that are released and completely die off/f2p in 1-3 years. Know why there wasn't an expansion from the end of 2007 to 2013? Resources and funding were shifted towards 1.0 and 2.0. Yes, the game you talked about losing so many players, funded XIV not once, but twice, while still giving us things like Abyssea, voidwatch and other things. XIV's got full funding and can't even give us more than 2 dungeons and 1 raid that are thrown out in 3 months.

And yes, XIV has no staying power, huge lack of actual content that's not vanity, so all it will take is one big mmo to knock the population down. The difference in this and "This mmo will kill WoW" is that WoW did something different, the reason nothing killed it is because they all tried doing the same formula. The only thing that'll kill WoW is WoW, but anything with a variety of content and shiny graphics can kill XIV. The only reason XIV's held out for 2 years is because of Final Fantasy in the title. Without that, it would have disappeared a year ago like the countless others in the last 10 years and a name alone can't keep a mmo going forever if the content is stale.

When the only thing you can do as you reach a Lv60 is to level your next Lv60, there's something wrong with this game.

But honestly OP, I wouldn't even bother sharing thoughts with people in forum. Too many fanboys would and probably already had swarmed you in this post. Go to pcgamer forum or something like that for rational thoughts and responses.

...when you realize all people are forced to use the same set of uniform per patch

...when you realize there's no skill customization

...when you realize there's nothing to do other than doing expert roulette everyday

...when you realize the only thing other than leveling your main to 60 is to level your alt to 60

...when you realize that it's been almost 2 month since HW launched and you've paid the original game for 40 bucks and sub money for contents

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

The point being, the game is still up and has been on a subscription for 13 years and gave a variety of content, rather than 2 dungeons, 1 raid, which get outdated in 3 months, compared to the countless other mmos that are released and completely die off/f2p in 1-3 years. Know why there wasn't an expansion from the end of 2007 to 2013? Resources and funding were shifted towards 1.0 and 2.0. Yes, the game you talked about losing so many players, funded XIV not once, but twice, while still giving us things like Abyssea, voidwatch and other things. XIV's got full funding and can't even give us more than 2 dungeons and 1 raid that are thrown out in 3 months.

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You see... the problem is I don't want the same content to last me years. I want new dungeons and raids. I want new content at a steady pace. I want to gear up my characters in new and shiny gear and smash my head against raid bosses.I know that might come as a shock to you but I like the game the way it is. It's not perfect but it's a far cry from bad.

I do not want to farm equipment for months that will not change for years on end. If FF14 added stuff like that I would unsub and go to another game that offers the gameplay that I want. If a game doesn't offer what I want I go out and try a new game. I do not cry for the game to change to something it isn't.

It's called voting with your wallet. If the developers see enough people unsubscribing for the same reasons, they might consider changing certain elements of the game.

To bring up World of Warcraft again. This expansion the devs there announced they don't plan to continue adding flight in future expansions ever again. A week later they completely reversed their stance of 'no flying ever again' to 'we will allow you to fly please come back ;.;'.

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Originally Posted by Rakeesh

You honestly can't say "oh people loved FF11 and kept playing and subbing to it" and when you look at the actual data, they lost so many players they had to shut down half their servers and barely invested any more resources in new content.

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As much as you might not want to admit it. Obysuca is right. FFXI was one of the most popular MMOs at the time. It took them something like 10 years before they had to merge servers. I played it for 3 years and still didn't experience everything in the game. It took me 2.5 weeks to experience everything Heavensward had to offer, mainly because everything is just so easy and one-shottable on duty finder.

FFXI might not have been more fun than FFXIV. But it was definately fun for longer than 2 months.

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Originally Posted by RylaiBluecrow

...when you realize all people are forced to use the same set of uniform per patch

...when you realize there's no skill customization

...when you realize there's nothing to do other than doing expert roulette everyday

...when you realize the only thing other than leveling your main to 60 is to level your alt to 60

...when you realize that it's been almost 2 month since HW launched and you've paid the original game for 40 bucks and sub money for contents

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Can you exactly explain why are you playing that game if what you only strive for is leveling a combat character and then go look for some stuff?
You are complaining about the lack of useful alternative equipement, about the lack of skill customization, about the grinding element being poor... You are complaining about the heart of the game, its fundamentals. Yet you're still here instead of playing something else. I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Snip.

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Because raiding and friends. And what makes you think I'm not playing other games besides this one? What makes you think that you have a say in what I spend 13 bucks on per month just to talk to people I know and raid with them?

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

As much as you might not want to admit it. Obysuca is right. FFXI was one of the most popular MMOs at the time. It took them something like 10 years before they had to merge servers.

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They actually did the first server merges in 2003. 3 servers went bye bye. It's true the next one was in 2010 so 8 years since launch.

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I played it for 3 years and still didn't experience everything in the game.

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Which again sounds terrible for new players. At least in my opinion.

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It took me 2.5 weeks to experience everything Heavensward had to offer, mainly because everything is just so easy and one-shottable on duty finder.

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Are we comparing several expansion packs of 11 with one expansion pack at release for 14 again?

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Originally Posted by RylaiBluecrow

Because raiding and friends. And what makes you think I'm not playing other games besides this one? What makes you think that you have a say in what I spend 13 bucks on per month just to talk to people I know and raid with them?

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I never said how you should spend your money, don't put words in my mouth just to make your point.

You are obviously limiting yourself about the stuff you want to do in the game, and then claim that the game doesn't have anything else to offer.
It's not the game's fault if you don't like PvP, crafting, glamour, housing, side activities (such as Triple Triad, Chocobo breeding...), collecting (minions/mounts), gathering, achievements...

Saying that the game has nothing else than eso grind and leveling a combat job to 60 while complaining about its core feature is ignorant at best, dishonest at worst.

Really, I'd be fine with just having variability in the content we've got. The reason I'm bored a lot of the time running EXDR isn't solely because I'm doing Neverreap again, but because AI and spawn patterns are identical every time.

The reason that games like Team Fortress 2 and Counter-Strike are still jumpin' years and years after their release, even with no real new "content" (beyond the occasional mode like Mann vs. Machine), is because each game is fundamentally different from the last. I played TF2 for hours and hours and hours, and I still had fun with it. Part of it was because I was slowly gaining mastery playing a particular class (which is one of the big reasons I play FFXIV), but the other part was the variability present in each game. It wasn't possible to set my watch by anything that happened in the game: I had to constantly think on my feet, plan ahead, and make tactical decisions in response to changing circumstances. That's fun, because it engages one of the most fundamental human elements out there: creativity. I had to be creative to play TF2 and not get instantly blown to bits.

For all the griping I've done about Seal Rock, it's honestly the most fun thing the game's got going right now, and for that exact reason: I constantly have to evaluate my options and think creatively, both in macro (the position of spawn points, who's leading at the moment, etc.) and micro (fighting a small group or a big zerg and making individual skill choices) terms. I don't have to do that in Neverreap. I have the rotation of abilities that every boss and enemy does inscribed in stone in my head, and it's entirely muscle memory after that point. The most fun boss in the old HMs was definitely the dragon dude at the end of Stone Vigil HM, because it required you to pay close attention and think on your feet as you fought him. Working to innovate off of that should be the goal in future development, IMO.

I'm playing ESO at the same time as this. The quests there are so much varied. Popularity would tell you this was a far superior game but ESO is far more creative. One small mission has you choosing which way you want to go. Left was a route where you have to use stealth, right was a route where you have to avoid traps and work out the patterns. FFXIV however - Teleport, find a guy, read one thing he says, watch him walk 2 metres then disappear....Occasionally you kill something.

The only open world content are hunts and fates (which nobody does especially the level 59 stuff). All Eorzea is, is just one huge pretty waiting lobby. If it wasn't for the great people I've met, I'd be long gone. But hey, 236,192 talked love for Yoshida so the game isn't anything less than perfect.

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Originally Posted by Ortamus

The only open world content are hunts and fates (which nobody does especially the level 59 stuff). All Eorzea is, is just one huge pretty waiting lobby. If it wasn't for the great people I've met, I'd be long gone. But hey, 236,192 talked love for Yoshida so the game isn't anything less than perfect.

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Branching stuff like that in ESO is very rare, with the vast majority of quests just being formulaic fetch/kill quests. Unless things have changed from when I last played it, the only open world content after questing is anchors which you just do once for map completion.