Um...but if you eat the cake you don't have it anymore. That's kinda what that saying means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
Did Yoshi P messed up the relics Im trying to understand the meaning of this help me!
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08-19-2015, 03:20 AMAndevom
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08-19-2015, 03:23 AMkarateorangutangIt's not a casual goal if someone has to go back and do previous content for no other reason than to play catch for a year that they didn't play the game. I don't how that is even an argument at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
If there's no risk at all and its nothing but a time sink why would we force people to do it. That doesn't make any sense either.
Again just sounds like rampant bad business decisions. -
08-19-2015, 03:34 AMMageBlackJust looking for hipster status "I got my relic before it was nerfed!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
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08-19-2015, 03:53 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Well whoever GM thats hear just know the disappointment of the "other" gamers here that want something to feel unique and not a handout. You can forward that to Yoshi P. Some things could have just been untouched when everything else is a huge mega nerf!
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08-19-2015, 03:53 AMNadirahI wouldn't call the gil sinks in the ARR relic exactly casual friendly.Quote:
If you can point to even one fact that suggests that having obtainable long-term goals isn't casual friendly, you might have an argument. You say you can't see my point, but it's because you're looking in the wrong place.
If anything it encouraged RMT. -
08-19-2015, 04:03 AMkarateorangutangI think this thread is showing a lot, seems to me that the opinion that the relic quests are doing the wrong thing isn't what the general populace thinks. Yes i also know that the forums can't represent the entire player base, but it is a rather large sample size of it. Your simple rage at the game and developers isn't making any valid points either.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Additionally, we don't know what the new relic will be like. It's possible you could be getting your wish starting at the next weapon incarnation, however I find that to be extremely unlikely due to the content progression within this game. If that is your issue though then the relic is a mere symbol of your argument, and your greater issue is within a structure that is currently working and gaining acclaim from many outlets. So, your in the minority again. -
08-19-2015, 04:15 AMAssirraI am going to give you a hint and then i am out of here.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
If you want something to change you need a massive amount of players behind you to back you up.
Constantly using the words casuals and handouts as obvious insults, is not going to get you anywhere.
So far you have not brought up a single argument that doesn't include "casuals" "handout" disprect" or "FFXI". -
08-19-2015, 04:41 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Assirra: Just because a huge amount of white knights roam this forum does that by default mean you guys are right? I can right now get 45 people from my server that feels exactly the same to reply if I really ask them nicely? What will that prove? Will it still be that im assuming im intentionally insulting someone for beeing casual? There is a huge difference of just beeing a casual and a casual but thats for another discussion. Its still a handout you know this game gives handouts so why are you even lying to yourself and me about this part? Ofcourse its a disrespect since you are handing out stuff many players grinded for hard for free to another player base wich by default becomes a "casual" since for some strange reason if you check peoples replies we are all of a sudden hardcore and eliteist who wants this? Your hint doesnt work when you feel disrespected by SE and the Dev team when the player next to you gets the same stuff as you constantly for half the effort.
Its not the fault of the player next to you ofcourse but when the player next to you behaves and acts like they deserve it too thats when stuff is bad and you can clearly see how this handout mentality is accepted by people here. No you shouldnt get the relic for free. You want a relic get it like everyone else no handouts. Want an i200 weapon bad? Save your esoterics and get one want a shiny i200 relic grind it like everyone else no exceptions and thats how it really should have been. You are acting like I want everything in some horizontal progression. I'm asking the dev team to have one thing untouched is it really so hard to ask and demand? So ofcourse I see players as selfish in the replies here. Cause just because someone doesnt seem to have time and thinks they pay for a subscription they should have the same stuff as me and Yoshi P gladly serves it to everyone. So yes again it becomes a disrespect and treating players like this shows it colors eventually don't worry. You can get a huge player market to care about it too. How much you want to bet if you make a petitition online about this and start spreading the word you can get people to sign it? Nothing will happen though cause this is a business its all about money we already know this its just sad that its to the expence of the people who saved this game during the dark ages and the cost of its heart. I welcome you to FFXIV A WoW Communism Reborn 2.0 (still 2.0 since Heavensward is still a reskin) Where you pay for a subscription you get everything like the next guy just wait it out a few months. -
08-19-2015, 04:48 AMAshkendorThere hasn't been any information released on the 3.0 relic at all, aside from the comment about consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageBlack
Honestly, there hasn't been any real conversation with the OP at all. He mostly just throws hyperbolic statements and strawman arguments around. "I know that the devs want it one way, but I want it THIS WAY! This game is going to DIE if you don't do it my way!" is basically what he seems to be saying in a lot of his posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageBlack
Don't forget WoW. He loves bagging on WoW. I think he thinks FFXI is the MMO gold standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assirra
Doesn't agree with you =/= white knight.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
You're still taking upward progression way too personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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08-19-2015, 04:50 AMkarateorangutangI'm still having trouble seeing where SE disrespected you. You and noone else but you consented to their creative control when your purchased and subscribed to their licensed product. You have the absolute right be dissatisfied with their product, but at the end of the day creative control is not in your hands, and a change in methedology in the game structure would require a massive petition that, I would be inclined to believe, there would not be sufficient support for.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
If you came here to vent for no other reason than to vent.... well then I guess mission accomplished. -
08-19-2015, 04:59 AMNalieeFFXIV ARR 4 million registered accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
I don't honestly think your 45 players will make a huge difference here. -
08-19-2015, 05:04 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
I'm here because I'm trying to get my message across and hopefully it will get filtered by the people who keep replying here thinking that this WoW FF Clone is the path to go on exactly everything ingame content. I don't think FFXI is some gold MMO and neither do I want a new FFXI but again for the thousand time leave one thing from FFXI influenced here enjoyable without a nerf its one lousy thing. FFXI was SE Flagship to MMORPG it wasnt WoW so when I read Ashkendor and Assirras replies I know they intentionally reply like that just to argue. Its one thing im asking for. Everything else in the game is a huge nerf you know it I know it its not even up for discussion. Why can't leave one thing alone thats already an influence from FFXI and just make it enjoyable timesinking gilsinking and rewarding so it can filter you out as someone who wants to dedicate this for an item.
Virtual item or not it could have a value to some people who enjoy that. Telling them to quit the game and constantly attacking them for wanting one thing horizontal in this vertical progression is not helping. Don't reply instead if you have no valid arguments.The point is regardless ofcoures its disrespectful towards everyone who devoted so much time and giving the handout making everyone half the same thing is not fair. If you want this easy mode on everything then the new relic chapters cant be the exact start of the relics in 2.0 where either. Meaning not a ridicilous low drop rate at first wich you will nerf nerf nerf and nerf thats why I view that again as disrespectful from Yoshi P and caters only to the lazy gamer without time and gil so they should get the same thing as you. If materia V will be added to the weapons its already a bunch of Bs already from the start then cause V materias will drop in price later I wouldnt be surprised that 3.2 quests later drop V materias making everyone who even bothered to get V the hard way once again get disrespected and punished while praising everyone else for just waiting out and they can catch up with the same person who loves this game and wants something to be rewarding grinding and enjoyable. AGAIN ITS ONE THING ONE THING IM ASKING but I wouldnt be surprised on the replies again.
Naliee; Incase you forgot without FFXI with double subscriptions and 1.0 players who still paid for this game when Yoshi P begged them too this game wouldnt even have 4m registered account so that reply is just corny. You think that everyone from 2.0 that started is what helped keep this game alive? :) we all know thats not the truth. I'm not even saying SE owes us anything for life and neither does Yoshi P but if you are asking for the support from players during a horrible time for your company the the least you can do is respect them back by hearing their wishes on 1 thing? Especially when they turned everything else into a WoW clone with a FF clothing. Its a business we get it money comes first and profit and for this game its to the expence of the games heart and punishing loyal gamers.
The tramp stamp from 1.0 and 1 dollar less on monthly payment isnt something i can jump for joy over. I know many people wants something to continue to evolve with the player gear wise. We know the FFXI relic was like that.
Say what you want about the first director Tanaka but he never wanted a WoW clone he wanted something unique and to keep players interested longer and make the game enjoyable and rewarding (this is an old gamereactor interview when the game just got released).
With that beeing said if he had more time it would have turned out differently. I rather would have played with 2m for 7-9 years than playing with a disloyal customermarket of MMORPG Trendjumpers of 4m that would pack their bags and leave when Blizzard releases a new expansion or a new company does that after 4-5 years. It will still add up money wise.
Many people in this forum agreed with me on this and if they are view this they will gladly reply and tell you the same thing. -
08-19-2015, 05:10 AMNalieeWell. I don't know how to break this to you but.. it seems like majority is casual players and casuals decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
EDIT
I know, I was there when FFXIV was first released but left because real life happened and came back to ARR. But all I was saying that you are drawing short stick when it's 4m against 45.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
But like you said,They certainly did listen to us when we asked for Zodiac nerf. I just find VERY UNLIKELY at this point that they will leave relic "untouched". You know, when they already said that they're giving us new one for HW.Quote:
SE owes us anything for life and neither does Yoshi P but if you are asking for the support from players during a horrible time for your company the the least you can do is respect them back by hearing their wishes on 1 thing?
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08-19-2015, 05:18 AMHyrist
Sizzle, you've been tooting the Anti-Nerf, let's be FFXI horn for a while now. Give it a break. The frequency in which you raise protest at this point raises questions as to the legitimacy of your investment.
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08-19-2015, 05:29 AMMageBlack
Lol, I hope your hissy fits help your cause...
People are upset enough about having to do the MSQ from 2.0 to 2.55 just to get heavensward. OP, you really think there will be enough people willing to grind an unnerfed relic weapon from i55 all the way up to the new one and beyond? I dont care if its nerfed or not but what they have done is minimal in the long run. Did you also complain when they nerfed the Atma part by increasing the drop rate? It's not nerfing, its called balancing content to keep it at least somewhat relevant going forward. Also look at how long they went before they nerfed the 2.0 relic.
YOU ARE OVERREACTING and everyone here can see it.
Sorry, its hard to take anything you say seriously when it is so heavily laced with venom and venom is all you respond to... -
08-19-2015, 05:52 AMVelthiceYou're delusional. You know what you get for playing 1.0? A tattoo, a chocobo, a goobbue if you did the quest, your name in the credits, and a reduced sub. That's what you get. That's ALL you get. You do not get to and will not ever be able to dictate the design and direction of the game. Get over it or cry more, I really don't care, but that's the reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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08-19-2015, 06:13 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
you mean a gobbue mount that pretty much looks the same as the one from the sylph quests except that mine has a carpet on its head? Thats what you consider unique and original? =) Really? Like really? None of anything you mentioned affects the unrewarding gameplay.
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08-19-2015, 06:17 AMCatsby
I have to side with OP. This is my first (and probably last) theme park MMO. It's absolutely crushing to see higher skill/commitment rewards so easily replaced by fetch quests.
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08-19-2015, 06:34 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Catsby: Not only that but how everything constantly becomes so unrewarding and handouts to people who pay for a subscription. People are openly discussing this on my server atm. Not many are agreeing with the people typing here again they think their voices wont be heard due to how Yoshi P is taking this game.
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08-19-2015, 06:39 AMAndevomYou completely missed the point of "You don't get a whole hell of a lot just because you played 1.0." and basically just agreed with it while still sounding like you were taking an opposing view. Good job.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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08-19-2015, 06:46 AMAshkendorIf they aren't willing to speak up, then there's zero chance of their voices being heard at all. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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08-19-2015, 06:51 AMWelsper59Personal accountability and forethought is a rare occurrence among players these days. Like... REALLY rare. People immediately jump on something, not truly taking into account what's obviously in store for them, just because they want to do it. At no point throughout the entirety of ARR did I find any reason to believe that things like the relic weapons wouldn't just be a side thing and eventually be stored away for something easier to obtain. This is how vertical progression works. You'd be a fool to believe games like this would follow the old school scheme that XI and very early vanilla WoW had in utilizing the same equipment for very long periods of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
It should never be on the devs to take into account that players are too ignorant about their own actions and beliefs when it comes to something as obvious as how vertical progression works. Particularly when the general schedule of content release is revealed to players (e.g. we all knew that Final Coil was going to be the final tier raid). If players, who should have known better to start with, decide to ignore all the warnings around them about starting something as tedious as the ARR relic weapon chain was and then complain about it later, it's their own fault for being in that predicament. What would have possibly given people the idea that it wouldn't be how it is? What possible evidence is there to support it? -
08-19-2015, 06:51 AMkarateorangutangI guess this will be my last post in this thread because it's just a giant pity party.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
This games methodology of tossing gear when new stuff out is well documented and has been effect for the better part of a year. Relic quests are simply a way that the average joe can access late game content easier. FFXIV Relic is just that pure and simple. Anything that your character might have a connection to this legendary weapon can be explained away with a simple cutscene. There now it makes canonical sense.
Secondly, your dismissing new and returning players with an alarming amount of zealotism. They pay for the better portion of this game, you should be thanking them and not condemning them for it.
Third, you say this has nothing to do with XI, but your keep citing it as source material. That game is over a decade old, outdated, failing and cumbersome game. Relic in that game was something a handful of people on a server had so comparing the amount of work you put into relic in this game and the amount of work it took to attain it in XI is like comparing a community college to MIT.
Lastly, If people like yourself were that upset with the game... you'd stop playing. It's apparent that your not going to quit, so quite frankly your argument doesn't really hold any weight. Making the game more difficult for no reason for players that will help pay for content that will come later is not only counter productive, but absolute madness.
Honestly, Like I said this structure is very unlikely to change so I wish you luck in your pursuit and I hope that you feel better at the end of the day for complaining.
The rest of us should just let this thread burnout. There's no convincing a zealot. -
08-19-2015, 06:56 AMDementI have to ask. Are people openly discussing it on the server or is your FC openly discussing it in FC chat and wildly agreeing with one another?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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08-19-2015, 07:01 AMMikedizzy
Let it burn
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08-19-2015, 07:01 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Karateorangutang & Welsper59: I didnt expect this outcome I truly thought that somewhere in Yoshi Ps mind he would respect the FFXI and 1.0 who might have wanted a grind and something to be rare and more enjoyable to obtain that would make it unique. EVERYTHING ELSE is a handout we all know this. Again what im trying to say wich is always ignored for some strange reason. Why is it so hard to leave one thing as it is? Why must everyone exactly have everything just because they pay for a subscription just let something be left alone. This will be the last time I repeat myself on this if you intentionally not want to read my replies when i constantly tell you I'm asking for one thing.
I'm already aware the rest of the gameplay is doomed into this themepark vertical progression bogus and I can accept that but must you take away the joy from exactly everything? You really cant leave one relic alone to constantly expand and live on and just be that one thing in this game a player can form and grow with?
Do you really think all the returning players and new players will quit because of that? seriously now.. They never said anything about these mega nerfs so ofcourse its a disrespect towards everyone who devoted time to this and praising people who put no effort in.
It does not take much to actually keep one thing in the game as it is and leave it as something you have to truly work for. these I can have everything you have just because i pay for a subscription so i will get it for half the effort later on is a huge joke. -
08-19-2015, 07:13 AMWelsper59Well first and foremost, this isn't XI and Yoshi P had nothing to do with that game. There's zero reason he'd need to respect people that played that game (FYI I'm one of them) in a manner that is reflected upon here. 1.0 was short lived and had very little future plans in store for it as it was (plans were being mostly laid out for 2.0). What came to us from 1.0 was the veteran rewards, which I'm not complaining at all about. They didn't even need to do that, yet here we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
I'm a little confused about what you're trying to argue for with the "one thing" that you're talking about. Are you saying that you want the relic chain to continue so that the weapon continues to be upgraded? That's a legit want, but it's unreasonable for a game like this. To start with, it'd mean people would have to undergo the grind again through old dungeons and such... content that most players have seen to death. As a developer and business, the last thing you want to do is subject consumers to revisit old content in the exact same way as it always was for a ridiculous grind period when there is NEW content to be had. When you consider that, it also means that development time is going to be needed in both the old relic and new one (since as I pointed out, it's a bad idea to force the relic formula to be only pertaining to the old one). This one thing that you want, while again being valid, is not plausible for this games design path. It has always been this way, even during 1.0. Arguments involving XI for matters like this are pointless and go nowhere. It's just unnecessary, and far more of a burden, to do what you want them to do. -
08-20-2015, 02:01 PMAldehidoNot sure if this was answered before, but you're probably refering to relics, mythics and empyreans. Those weapons were implemented during the 75 cap which lasted YEARS and the relic indeed was worth it. I have to agree that weapons would still be suefull when the new level cap rose, but they were fixed along with the item since they were years worth of epicness.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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08-20-2015, 04:38 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
Aldehido! You can't say that here everyone here will swarm you cause people truly beleive they are entitled to everything just because they pay for subscriptions.
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08-20-2015, 04:41 PMAshkendorhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jo_Ce4gdvk...00/stawman.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Seriously, nobody's given anything even remotely close to that as a reason. -
08-20-2015, 06:11 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
Ashkendor: The way you strongly support Vertical Progression and defending that this is mega OK and everything should be nerfed always kinda tells that.