I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

Today after running some Rav Ex the bard in my static said something about how WM was completely useless in that fight. I made sure to tell him he can't complain about cast times. Plenty of opportunity to learn where to go turret mode. If BLM's can do it with near 3 second cast times, BRD's can do it with that super fast "cast time." Not saying you have to like anything about the way it plays just saying you can't really say much about a cast time killing your DPS if BLM can have twice as long of cast and still be fine.

Not to mention, isn't it really easy to just turn it on when you know you're going to sit there and nuke and then back off when you're going to be running around a lot?

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

Exactly my point, people have taken this playstyle preference and used my argument as a "learn2play" issue or a "min/max dps" issue... when that's FAR from the case. Fact is, Square gave us a class and then completely changed its playstyle... that's not fair.

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I agree, there are countless bards out there who liked the 2.X Vanilla bard and never wanted to play a caster. Myself included. It's not about the dps, and its not that many of us dont understand how to play a caster (ie the L2P fallacy). It's the fact that our playstyle didn't "evolve", it was flat-out changed entirely. In the view of the majority of bard posts I have read over the last few weeks, most bards feel their original playstyle was ripped out from under them w/o any warning.

At any rate, the folks in here refuse to see our reasoning and spit off claims that we shouldn't be allowed to be mobile. Bards were always mobile and yet in 2.X I barely heard a peep from anyone on the forums expressing displeasure that we were mobile. In fact, back then everyone seemed to enjoy the fact that Bard was mobile. It drew many to the role and became part of Bard's fun factor. Now that we have this stigma on our mobility, it feels like a good chunk of folks just came here to belittle us even further just to make themselves feel good. Whether or not that's there intent or that they dont want to see us changed, because it will make their class feel more inferior I can't rightly say....

Personally, I don't think I can main this new Bard with the changes they have made to it. While Im fine with playing a caster class, this isnt the bard I signed up for, nor is it the class I grew to love. If SE refuses to change us back to something more akin to 2.X Bard I will likely pick a new class.

Got my BRD to 60 and tried out a few roulettes last night... I'm failing to see the problem people are having.

We are nowhere near like a BLM. Our "cast time" is incredibly short. We are trading 30% (that's HUGE) damage bonus for having to stand still for a less than 2 seconds.

Lots of whining for not logical reason, as far as I can see.


EDIT: Btw, BRD did actually start off as a hybrid caster, even though the comparison to BLMs is ridiculous at best.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

I can totally agree/understand MCH having this mechanic but I don't understand how Bard can go from YEARS of playing the same way to now suddenly being forced to be a bow-mage.

It isn't right, it feels COMPLETELY wrong. If I wanted to play BLM I WOULD HAVE PLAYED BLM.

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This is what I'm really feel right now... I wish we can move while casting :p

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

EDIT: Btw, BRD did actually start off as a hybrid caster, even though the comparison to BLMs is ridiculous at best.

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From 1.X, 2.0 into 3.0 I played bard, and Bard has never "casted" anything except Foe, Mage's Ballad and swiftsong. Not sure where u got the idea that they were hybrid casters. Their attacks have always been instant like every other physical damage DPS. Until now...

Also, you are among the small percent of bards who doesnt mind WM. While that's not a bad thing, please try to understand the reasoning why the rest of us are upset.

I'm a white mage and IMO WM is ridiculous for a physical damage job.
I can only imagine how hard it is for bards :(
SE should remove WM because it turns BRD into a caster, a DoM with a bow.
Bard is a physical damage job. It's not a mage, I don't understand why SE chose to add cast times instead of something useful like adding more songs for buffs.

The other thing that I don't understand is why the people playing BLMs/Casters/anything that's not a bard are saying that WM is a good thing.
Why ? Why do you want to decide how bards should play if you're not a bard ? It doesn't affect you so why are you defending WM ? I .. I just don't understand.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

I agree, there are countless bards out there who liked the 2.X Vanilla bard and never wanted to play a caster. Myself included. It's not about the dps, and its not that many of us dont understand how to play a caster (ie the L2P fallacy). It's the fact that our playstyle didn't "evolve".

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This. Just as there's a difference between an enjoyable progression of a movie's plot and a cheap twist (or falling into preexisting tropes, cliches, etc.), I feel like we got the latter.

And this is, again, coming from someone who prefers WM over non-WM. Doesn't really have anything to do with that alone, but more of how we (or even "what") got here. It could have been better.

...just really getting annoyed that people take 'massive buff' as not what it always ends up to be after balancing, a cutting of options. The most powerful choice will always end up in line, according to job parameters, with every other 'most powerful choice'. The only issue is when there used to be, say, 3 of them, and now there's just the one.

I still say: keep bard the way it was in 2.0 with more support abilities and some DPS abilities.
Have MCH have this stance dance BS and let them be the more DPS thing.

Bard: Support DPS.
Machinist: Pure Physical Range DPS.

Wouldn't this make people a bit happier?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Snip

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I agree, While I can use WM and effectively I might add, I very much dislike it. It feels cheap and not thought out in the least. It makes me not want to play Bard anymore. Which is upsetting because I loved maining Bard.
It feels like the devs didnt have the time to really consider how to shape Bard into something and so they just gave it the same stuff as the Machinist abilities and called it a day. (or vice versa) Now neither class feels unique and the mobility that we came to know and love has been tossed to the wind.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

I still say: keep bard the way it was in 2.0 with more support abilities and some DPS abilities.
Have MCH have this stance dance BS and let them be the more DPS thing.

Bard: Support DPS.
Machinist: Pure Physical Range DPS.

Wouldn't this make people a bit happier?

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At the very least it may add some class uniqueness.

Why don't make WM as a party dmg buff and let us have the rest new abilities like old bard style... Instant cast.
From my perspective WM only give burst but less dps due to casting time and no auto attack.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

From 1.X, 2.0 into 3.0 I played bard, and Bard has never "casted" anything except Foe, Mage's Ballad and swiftsong. Not sure where u got the idea that they were hybrid casters. Their attacks have always been instant like every other physical damage DPS. Until now...

Also, you are among the small percent of bards who doesnt mind WM. While that's not a bad thing, please try to understand the reasoning why the rest of us are upset.

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1.0 BRD required CNJ as a mandatory lv15 sub class. You casted.

Honestly 1.5s cast speed is amazing, and leaves you with so much room to sidestep and perform oGCD moves because your GCD is still 2.5s. You're still infinitely more mobile with your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Depends on the change and whether there was prior discussion within the community about it. It would have been one thing if BRD players had asked for casting times on their abilities in exchange for a damage boost all through ARR. the discussion would turn out very differently and you'd have people giving suggestions on how to improve it while others would be content with what was given to them.

This was in essence a change no one asked for implemented in a way that is a copy-pasted mechanic with MCH with no cohesiveness to the gameplay BRD mains know and love.

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So pretty much what I said. A lot of times, developers make changes to a class no one asked for. Rather for better or worse, people naturally do not like change. Even if it was an expected one or not.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So pretty much what I said. A lot of times, developers make changes to a class no one asked for. Rather for better or worse, people naturally do not like change. Even if it was an expected one or not.

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change is fine, whether it's nerfs or buffs... but when it drastically changes the play style? that's not fair on anyone who takes BRD seriously. If you told me 2 years ago that BRD would end up having cast bars, I wouldn't have played it.

Git good !!!!! xD

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

change is fine, whether it's nerfs or buffs... but when it drastically changes the play style? that's not fair on anyone who takes BRD seriously. If you told me 2 years ago that BRD would end up having cast bars, I wouldn't have played it.

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It is the risk you take with a grain of salt when you play MMO's. I am not saying people are not entitled to their opinion, but they should understand at the same time things like this are going to happen to each job rather it be one year or five years down the road. Best you can do is leave constructive and well written criticism if you believe the actions they took were not in the right direction.

I am personally fine with it. Mostly because I played a lot of Marksman Hunter in WoW, which plays very similar to a casting BRD/MCH. If you asked me to pick the style non-casting or casting, I would definitely pick non-casting. The addition of the casting bar, while not done bad, just felt unnecessary. Would of been more ideal if the new abilities off BRD/MCH were charge ups with high potency and maybe longer cooldowns. Would of still shook up the rotation a lot and still would of added a level of complexity without sacrificing how the job played.

Our DPS is much better than it was in 3.0, but I thought before the jobs were released that this mode would put us in a DPS position with at least dedicated casters and just sacrifice that when we use songs/turrets. Like I said, our DPS is better and I shouldn't complain, but we still fall under the fact that we do lower DPS than everyone else and we suffer a loss of DPS when using songs/turrets. I would of thought if you added a certain level of difficulty to the job, you would be rewarded much better. So the way it seems now, it is basically the same damage comparison as in 2.0, but now you have to deal with more obstacles for the same reward. Don't know, just don't think Wanderer's Minuet or Gauss Barrel were completely thought out ideas.

Alas, its there. It is by no means a deal breaker and I love playing my MCH60. That is just what I think of the changes in general.

OP

I agree with the complaints, but not the solution.

Sigh. This thread really depresses me. It's full of so many different views of what people think things should be like. People getting angry with each other because they don't agree with how the class should ultimately play. I think it is rather simple. I'll try to break it down.

Bard played a certain way for almost 2 years in ARR. Those who wanted ranged DPS but didn't want to be a caster had a good option. Then, come Heavensward, their new abilities were changed to give them a cast bar. While this isn't a problem in itself, it DOES become a problem if it's the only viable option. Most reasonable people here are just asking that both playstyles be viable. Want to have cast times on your abilities? Great. Go for it. Don't want them? Great, go for it. But you shouldn't be penalized for either. They should be 2 completely different playstyles.

I started leveling a Machinist today, I enjoyed him so much I ended up playing him most of the day rather than my other classes. It was my first time playing a ranged DPS that wasn't a caster, and even then my highest caster is 26. I don't enjoy casters, I don't find them fun. But as much as I am enjoying my Machinist, I'm not liking the fact that from 52-60 I'm going to be getting abilities tying me down to a cast bar. I feel it completely removes what makes the MCH fun, imo.

Having said that, I don't think that Gauss Barrel and WM should be removed. Just simply: make sure they are both very viable options. Don't remove one, or the other. All of you saying "Well git gud!" or "lol we evolved, adapt or GTFO" or "please remove WM completely as its the most awful thing ever" or anything else...you're not helping, and you don't seem to get it, either. By not making both options equally viable, they are killing a playstyle for those that CHOSE that class.

For those that main NIN or DRG or MNK, imagine if they decided to change their abilities to be ranged? Suddenly your playstyle, the class you've enjoyed, has just changed. Some will say dramatically, others will say "big deal". That does NOT discount EITHER opinion.

Stop trying to decide who is right and who isn't. Stop trying to decide what Square's intent was with all this until Square gives direct information about it. Most of the replies in this thread are just unwarranted and unhelpful. Full of people who think they know how the class should be played, and those who aren't sure how it should be played anymore, but still have others telling them "its this way or the highway. See ya!".

Put down the pitchforks, let the reasonable ones express their concerns. On BOTH sides people are being extreme. Let the reasonable voices be heard, on BOTH sides. Please, or this argument will go absolutely nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Dorfentyme

For those that main NIN or DRG or MNK, imagine if they decided to change their abilities to be ranged? Suddenly your playstyle, the class you've enjoyed, has just changed. Some will say dramatically, others will say "big deal". That does NOT discount EITHER opinion.
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This wouldn't be AT ALL similar. It's a horrible comparison.

An accurate comparison would be if Nin/Mnk/Drg were given skills that you had to stand still for 1.5s to complete and gave a 30% damage increase. They are called "Charge attacks".

Seriously, that's what BRD and MCH were given. You get a 30% damage increase in exchange for having to "charge" the attack for 1.5s. It doesn't harm the BRD playstyle in any way.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Snip

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I will not complaint if our turret stance DPS is comparable with other DPS class but the problem it is not, with WM or without it the DPS is not that much.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Snip.

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You forget they take our auto attack when we use WM, Bard DPS mostly come from it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This was in essence a change no one asked for implemented in a way that is a copy-pasted mechanic with MCH with no cohesiveness to the gameplay BRD mains know and love.

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Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to discuss this point a little bit, hopefully. The point of them introducing Wanderer's Minuet, as I recall, was because there were requests for more damage while sacrificing mobility. There was also talk about they superior mobility being quite powerful but their damage was quite low that some would like to sacrifice mobility for some damage.

The question from a design perspective becomes; "How do we give a job that has absolute mobility more damage without making it too powerful nor difficult to use?"

Simple answer would be to force them to sacrifice mobility - which they have done already by adding wind-up times to most of their skills. This removes the "too powerful" out of the equation, but we still have to consider making sure that it's "not difficult" to use. Hence, they went with a wind-up time that is less than the GCD - still allowing players to have some mobility.

With this in mind, could there be an alternative? Absolutely. However, most solutions end up being too strong or too difficult to use. So, I propose a change to The Wanderer's Paeon instead.

Quote:

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LV58 The Wanderer's Paeon (Cooldown: 90 seconds)
The next 5 Weaponskills will be Instant and will deal 15% less damage.
Can only be used under the effect of Wanderer's Minuet.
Additional Effect: Critical hits will increase the stacks of Wanderer's Paeon up to a maximum of 5 stacks.
Duration: 60 seconds

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Not the best solution, I admit. Will need a few tweaking, but the idea is there.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

This wouldn't be AT ALL similar. It's a horrible comparison.

An accurate comparison would be if Nin/Mnk/Drg were given skills that you had to stand still for 1.5s to complete and gave a 30% damage increase. They are called "Charge attacks".

Seriously, that's what BRD and MCH were given. You get a 30% damage increase in exchange for having to "charge" the attack for 1.5s. It doesn't harm the BRD playstyle in any way.

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If that's all you took from my post, then you didn't get it. At all.

You even quoted the main part of my post. Neither opinions are discounted just because of how one or the other FEELS ABOUT IT.

I would much rather WM only applied to certain abilities to turn them into harder hitting attacks that would otherwise not do a great deal, so in effect you keep your 2.xx game play but in order to use heavier new attacks your require to stop and charge them either with a longer cast time than current or temporarily immobilizes you after usage but the same cast time as currently applies to every ability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

It doesn't harm the BRD playstyle in any way.

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Have you personally tried it?
After using WM and getting effective with it, I still hate it. It doesnt feel like Bard anymore. and you know what maybe thats what SE wants. But its not what I want, so I wont play it anymore if it does not change.
Not giving them an ultimatum or anything, just merely saying I don't agree and therefore I'll let it go to someone who does.

Originally I was in the same boat as all the other bards, and part of me still is. But the arguing has gotten so out of hand Ive forgotten why I even care about this class

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

snip-

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I actually like your take on Wanderer's Paeon. However, whether we admit it or not. The developers are more inclined to the voices of Japanese Bard players regarding Bard issues. I'm pretty sure if there are English players who chose Bard when 2.0 first started for a class/job with mobility, then without a doubt some of our Japanese counterpart will share the same sentiment too.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Interesting, but while I'm usually one to complain that a lot of the new abilities are really nothing more than traits that take up extra bar space, I do feel like I'd miss the EA and IJ abilities (or, abilities in their place) with WM covering so many level-ups.

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I can see where you come from on this. I figured some would feel odd to see themselves getting 3 new icons on their bars while everyone else is getting 5. Still, I do feel that sticking to exactly the same skill spread for every job can lead to problems down the road. I also thought of attaching a story to it (basically, you and whatshisname would uncover/decipher the verses of the minuet over the course of the 3.0 BRD questline). Of course, this idea basically gives BRD 7 skills in total (Invocation, Sidewinder and 5 Wanderer's Minuet effects).

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I like the options that it could give us, but at the same time, I'm afraid just as many people would be turned off by the weaving of Invocation as weaving movement in WM. Others may also be turned off by the CDs it places on our support (via I-song lockouts, unless that was supposed to read as the Invoke-effect on those songs can't be used again for 2 min, instead of the songs themselves?).

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Well, as you said, it's mostly for the sake of giving you options. Though this version of WM is a progressive buff, and there's not much to weave in other than WM, the number of skills to progress you to your desired verse and then hitting Invocation. In theory it would force a BRD to think ahead, though I guess it also places a restriction on certain things (hitting WM, then hitting Heavy Shot 4 times expecting to hit verse V, but in the middle of all that you get a Bloodletter proc and before you know it you find yourself on verse I). It is indeed far from perfect. XD

There are situations where you're not going to be using your songs for the full duration, and I figured song usability would be a decent trade-off for more DPS uptime, especially since you'd be sacrificing the overall strength of the song in question in addition to access to it because of the cooldown. The 2 minute song cooldown is more for balancing, but it could be reduced if necessary.

Invocation's cooldown does seem a little long, but what I wanted to prevent was making WM-related Invocation effects something you basically weave in all the time. You make the cooldown too short and it will most likely get in the way of procs and the rotation as a whole. Make the cooldown too long and you basically guarantee that it'd be used only when stacking DPS cooldowns and only with verse V (AKA Barrage + Hawk's Eye + Raging Strikes + Wanderer's Minuet V + Sidewinder).

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Originally Posted by LambLich

I would much rather WM only applied to certain abilities to turn them into harder hitting attacks that would otherwise not do a great deal, so in effect you keep your 2.xx game play but in order to use heavier new attacks your require to stop and charge them either with a longer cast time than current or temporarily immobilizes you after usage but the same cast time as currently applies to every ability.

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If you end up going that road, you might as well remove WM and give cast times to certain shots. I'd probably add a cast time to Windbite and Bloodletter while boosting their overall damage/potency. That way you'd have cast times for Bloodletter, Windbite, Empyreal Arrow and Sidewinder while Heavy Shot, Straight Shot and Venomous Bite would remain instant and still keep your auto attacks. If you want to be creative, allow the cast bars to fill while the BRD is moving, but have those cast bars fill slower than if you were standing still.

What's the situation with the Japanese Players and the Bard job? What's their thoughts on the new changes?

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

What's the situation with the Japanese Players and the Bard job? What's their thoughts on the new changes?

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As far as Ive read, they are in the same boat us us. Many dont like the changes and want it reverted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vespar

As far as Ive read, they are in the same boat us us. Many dont like the changes and want it reverted.

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Wow! If the Japanese Players are up in arms about the changes to BRD as well you know something seriously went wrong.

Ouch... >_>;

I haven't obtained WM yet as I only leveled Ninja to 60 and the rest of my classes are sitting at 50 (except DRK which is 35 and MCH and AST at 30). When I get to 60 on my BRD and see the full results of all its new abilities unlock I'll see how bad it is.

I have no problem "learning how to play."

I have no problem doing a proper rotation.

This is simply not the job I chose to play.

End of story.

I remember that people were saying that BRD in 2.0 is a faceroll class even a baby horse while sucking his mother's can play it.
Now changes toward the class being a more skillful class to play actually make people complaining because they can't play the class while facerolling again.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

I remember that people were saying that BRD in 2.0 is a faceroll class even a baby horse while sucking his mother's can play it.
Now changes toward the class being a more skillful class to play actually make people complaining because they can't play the class while facerolling again.

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Clearly you have never played Bard, then.

So, your profile says you play Conjurer aka. White Mage.

Let's see..let's change your job so it no longer uses magic. You use bandages. At close range. You have to stand 1 yalm from the player you are trying to heal..and you will now dress in metal armor. But if you do it properly, you'll heal better than before.

Just a basic aesthetic and playstyle change. You can still heal. No big deal, I assume? ^.-

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

I actually like your take on Wanderer's Paeon.

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It's still just a tiny suggestion. More work needs to be done to actually balance it out. Personally, it would be interesting to see it be implemented, haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

However, whether we admit it or not. The developers are more inclined to the voices of Japanese Bard players regarding Bard issues. I'm pretty sure if there are English players who chose Bard when 2.0 first started for a class/job with mobility, then without a doubt some of our Japanese counterpart will share the same sentiment too.

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I agree. However, we're going to have a problem when trying to remove Minuet, namely; there exists the Machinist job which can fill in the role of support in place of bard. If they were to remove Minuet, the damage potential of Bard will be quite low compared to the other jobs and will most likely cause players more reason to bring Machinists over Bards. Mobility is hard to balance around. Either you force the player to stand still to deal more damage, or allow the player to move as free as a bluebird yet also peck like one.

Edit:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Let's see..let's change your job so it no longer uses magic. You use bandages. At close range. You have to stand 1 yalm from the player you are trying to heal..and you will now dress in metal armor. But if you do it properly, you'll heal better than before.

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Actually, that sounds interesting. Combat Medic would definitely put an interesting spin on the Healer role.

my only headscratch is why add a bunch of abilities (not just BRD, but BLM as well) that expect you to stand still for something like 25-30 seconds, then make everything an AOE dance just to nullify it? On the face of it it appears quite pointless. Possibly when fully geared it's more realistic/strategic to actually take some damage rather than interrupt DPS, but I've not got far enough along to test that out.

yes, I'm sure a bunch of healers now have their eyes standing out on stalks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Clearly you have never played Bard, then.
So, your profile says you play Conjurer aka. White Mage.

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I play BRD to lv 50 for quite a while, and I have to say, it's been too easy and I got bored of it.
That conjurer on my profile hasn't been changed for a long time, I dunno why.
I've been maining Paladin now and it still showing conjurer all the time >.<

I've been running dungeons with friends and asking them about the changes, true most of them don't like it, they also admitted that the changes in play style do make you have to play the class more skillfully than before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Let's see..let's change your job so it no longer uses magic. You use bandages. At close range.

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Not even close, you still wield the bow and shoot it.

Hello again guys!

I just want to propose a solution.

What if, at level 60, we get an Archer/Bard "Trait" that reduces by half (or more) the cast time WM puts on our skills. Just that.

As I tried Alexander and all the new dungeons etc in Heavensward, I see that SE did a lot of Ranged DPS friendly instances. There are times I have to move a lot and I do it without minuet and when I don't have to move, I use it and it's not that hard really.

I know it feels wrong...even horrible with WM but there is more than mobility that we need. We need to be just a little faster with our skills, while the other DPS lands 4 or 5 hits, I do 2. It was maybe solved by the damage I dealt but I think we are still very slow.

I don't deny the fact that I miss my mobility but I figured out that I don't even move that much lately. WM can be used with other songs and our songs already drain MP so I think losing a little mobility is ok.

Thank you for reading. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

my only headscratch is why add a bunch of abilities (not just BRD, but BLM as well) that expect you to stand still for something like 25-30 seconds, then make everything an AOE dance just to nullify it? On the face of it it appears quite pointless. Possibly when fully geared it's more realistic/strategic to actually take some damage rather than interrupt DPS, but I've not got far enough along to test that out.

yes, I'm sure a bunch of healers now have their eyes standing out on stalks :)

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The cast time on abilities in WM is 1.5 seconds, an entire second shorter than the GCD. It still allows plenty of movement, far more than any caster could ever even dream of. A bard should never, ever be standing still for 30 seconds. On top of their cast times being a nearly insignificant 1.5 seconds, they also have instant procs and can easily swap in and out of WM depending on the situation. A bard can continue to dps and only suffer a minimal damage loss in an aoe heavy fight that would leave a BLM or SMN ripping their hair out in frustration.

Bards are still easily the most mobile DPS in the game, being much easier to move on the fly than casters and still not being hampered by close proximity AoEs like melee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

I play BRD to lv 50 for quite a while, and I have to say, it's been too easy and I got bored of it.
That conjurer on my profile hasn't been changed for a long time, I dunno why.
I've been maining Paladin now and it still showing conjurer all the time >.<

I've been running dungeons with friends and asking them about the changes, true most of them don't like it, they also admitted that the changes in play style do make you have to play the class more skillfully than before.



Not even close, you still wield the bow and shoot it.

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Some people easily said that Bard is easy job, while I can said that PLD is easy 123 tank rotation for new player who want to learn tanking. It feels like you're belittle Bard Job.

Who cares if the job was easy or not? It was about play style and fun of the class. Easy or tough does not matter when looking at the class as a whole to each player. Some people enjoy easier play styles, others enjoy harder. Classes should offer all types of play styles, and enough option to be enjoyed by many skill level of players.

Like I said, common sense game design.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Who cares if the job was easy or not? It was about play style and fun of the class. Easy or tough does not matter when looking at the class as a whole to each player. Some people enjoy easier play styles, others enjoy harder. Classes should offer all types of play styles, and enough option to be enjoyed by many skill level of players.

Like I said, common sense game design.

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The problem (which I think don't think high level enough to understand) is that it's hard to balance difficulty in content when 1 class trivializes the mechanics by free movement. Overtime, they attempt to do it and end up making it quite impossible to play other classes and ending up just not doing it. With a fresh start they just decide that they won't set themselves up for failure when creating new content again. That being said, in any 2.X content you don't need to move anymore than caster does to play (unlike melee with positionals) so I don't see how the playstyle changes. Also, someone pointed out that cast time is less than GCD. You literally have the same amount of movement freedom. Casters have zero.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Who cares if the job was easy or not? It was about play style and fun of the class. Easy or tough does not matter when looking at the class as a whole to each player. Some people enjoy easier play styles, others enjoy harder. Classes should offer all types of play styles, and enough option to be enjoyed by many skill level of players.

Like I said, common sense game design.

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Not looking at Bard only but at Heavensward as a whole, it would not be fair for the Bard to keep his ARR mobility.
Everyone should have the same amount of difficulty and fun while playing.
I know a lot of bards out there don't like WM and i won't be against a better Bard but I agree with SE on reducing Bards mobility.