Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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06-09-2015, 11:29 PM
Tuathaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Someone missed the part where it's confirmed that all MSQ post 2.0 will reward with Xp :p

Must have. I do not recall ever reading that.
06-09-2015, 11:29 PM
MilesSaintboroguh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

wefd

So you imply that these friends wouldn't help their newbie friend out in the old content? Some friends they are!
06-09-2015, 11:29 PM
NorthernLadMSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Because not wanting to deliver letters pick up tea or collect flowers at max level with out any form of xp reward is wanting something handed to them?

Your comment makes no sense. Have you even read any of this thread and what it's about?
06-09-2015, 11:32 PM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Because not wanting to deliver letters pick up tea or collect flowers at max level with out any form of xp reward is wanting something handed to them?

If you mean not wanting to put effort into the content and instead just have it handed to them. Yes, that is exactly what I meant. That exactly defines what entitlement is. Laziness also if I may add.
06-09-2015, 11:35 PM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So you imply that these friends wouldn't help their newbie friend out in the old content? Some friends they are!

Helping with instances, sure. But not everyone needs to be handheld for everything. Are you implying that being a new to the game means they are new to the mechanics of MMOs? Also once you go through the story once, there is no point to do it again anyways, since there are no options to get different outcomes. I also mention the awful gating that the new player have to start with. Name me another MMO that forces you to go through 18 levels before you can sell something on the auction house.
06-09-2015, 11:40 PM
MilesSaintboroguh

Rather than dodge around my question, how about answering it? Everyone keeps bringing up "but the new people wanna play with their friends!". So then why can't said friends spend a bit of time helping said new friend catch up? Would you invite a friend to a new game and not help them out? Or is it because you already did the content, you personally have no reason to do it again, new player be damned?
06-09-2015, 11:40 PM
Reynhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

Name me another MMO that forces you to go through 18 levels before you can sell something on the auction house.

Name me another MMO where you absolutely don't need the Auction House (or money, basically) up until max level.
06-09-2015, 11:40 PM
Felis

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

They've already stated they're basically doubling the xp from most, if not all, of the quests from ARR.

Only for the mainstory quests, not for all quests.
06-09-2015, 11:42 PM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Name me another MMO where you absolutely don't need the Auction House up until max level.

World of Warcraft
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Warhammer Online(shutdown)
Everquest 1 and 2
Tabula Rasa (shutdown)
Star Wars Galaxies (shutdown)

These game doesn't require the use of the auction house at all. BUT they give access to it at level 1 because options are better than no options
06-09-2015, 11:44 PM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Rather than dodge around my question, how about answering it? Everyone keeps bringing up "but the new people wanna play with their friends!". So then why can't said friends spend a bit of time helping said new friend catch up? Would you invite a friend to a new game and not help them out? Or is it because you already did the content, you personally have no reason to do it again, new player be damned?

I did answer your question.

Quote:

Not all people want to be handheld through everything

When they as for help sure I'll help. But you act like I have to help them.
06-09-2015, 11:51 PM
Aeyis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

. Name me another MMO that forces you to go through 18 levels before you can sell something on the auction house.

This is only an issue for alts. And this game isnt alt friendly anyway. Which in my opinion is a good thing.

As a new player you do not want access to the auction house early on, it will only cost you tons of gil. Even more so for someone that is new to mmos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

What's the big deal? I finished the main scenario from ultima to stairs in a day and half skipping every line of dialogue and cutscene on my alts

If I didnt absolutely love my alt and its new job, plus im interested in seeing the story again; I'd be quite horrified at having to go through all that mandatory content again, despite playing a mainly crafter. So I can understand where people are coming from.
As said tho, I'm quite aware this game is intentionally alt-unfriendly and I agree with that decision.

Incidentally on the topic of ''wanting to play with friends''
The lala actually does have a pretty good point.

See the roulettes are all locked behind many hours of play, and the only one that you can use right from the start (low level) cannot be done in a premade group.

It would be a lot less of an issue if they'd allow premade groups to enter the low-level queue, I think.
06-09-2015, 11:54 PM
Kauthryn

Good morning!

The issue with this philosophy of, "It's Square-Enix so the story matters!" is that by the same token we also have to consider that it is an MMORPG. Yes, the story is fantastic in this game -- and you know, I think it's wonderful that they loaded patches full of content for the players, but there are two groups of people that aren't going to want to be held back by it: those that have alternative characters (have beaten the story once) and those that are friends of people doing endgame events.

The first group is a pretty understandable thing. As was stated previously, this story for however good it is is inherently Japanese. There's a very linear progression model which allows for a more impactful narrative but also means that the replay value becomes relatively moot. Considering that you can even see cut scenes again in the inn room, even the appeal of hearing Gaius introduce the battle between Agrius and Midgardsormr or what have you isn't necessary.

The solution to this is fairly simple and MANY MMOs have shown the ability to have account bound achievements at this point. If the argument is that "you need to know the story," then it's a bit irrelevant when people have done it once. I've completed the game entirely on my DRG, but I have a NIN at 44. Am I going to have forgotten the story by then? To clarify, I came back for Heavensward and when I learned I had to do the MSQ I buckled down and nailed it in 2 days. I'm positive I didn't enjoy the story as much (even though it was great!), because I was being forced to play through it to get to the content that I pre-ordered. Monetarily, there is nothing more devastating for a franchise than to make people work to spend their money on you. The MSQ is 5 and a half patches and you feel it. To have to blaze through it to get to the new stuff is a bit painful -- very tedious if you have alts.

So definitely something that should happen, and I'm sorry but there isn't a relevant counterpoint, is that people need to have the MSQ unlocked for them once they finish it. That way alts can level however they want. If your argument is "well the game isn't alt friendly anyway," then what is the point of even mentioning it? Actively harming alts doesn't protect the integrity of the game. People like making characters -- you have 8 spaces for it. Why is it against the spirit of the game to take advantage of that, pray tell?

The second group mentioned, friends of veterans, will be able to get a small boost in terms of gearing/dungeons by the new duty finder option. Yay. But they still have piles of content to get through and that's just so they can be where their friends are. It seems spiteful and a bit small to say they need to wait the same way you did, when we should all want people to enjoy the game. Does gating them unnecessarily make it more fun? I don't think so. But they'll certainly not understand all of the story points. Nevertheless, I think that it's pretty easily -- if SE wished it -- to simply have you finish Ultimate Weapon and then give a summary of what happened after 2.0. I say this because going forth, consider the expansion AFTER Heavensward. Do you expect people to play through 2 full expansions to get to the new one? That's like telling someone to play World of Warcraft: Cataclysm (and god, why would you do that?) but then also wanting them to play through WOW Classic and all of its dungeons, The Burning Crusade and all of its dungeons, Wrath of the Lich King and all of its dungeons, and then finally they can play with their friends.

We've already seen the pains that an MMO goes through as the path becomes longer, because people are forced to slosh through old content and it makes it all the more daunting to enter the game. A dwindling playerbase is a harrowing thing to consider for an MMO, especially one like ARR which did such a bang-up job not only rebooting but then addressing the past complaints in such a meaningful and successful way. The 2.55 experience fixed everything 2.0 had, sure.

But there must be a value beyond that, no?

As was also stated, there are people that play to craft, and it seems a little harsh to make them level to 50, do combat quests, then level again so they can continue to play the game as they wish to -- which, to be frank, is a valuable and admirable commodity that I certainly lack the patience for.

So yeah, the MSQ definitely needs to be adjusted someone or in the long run we'll all suffer for it.
06-09-2015, 11:54 PM
Reynhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

These game doesn't require the use of the auction house at all. BUT they give access to it at level 1 because options are better than no options

People tend to make a really big deal about Auction Houses. Apparently it was a very negative point for v1.0, even though it wasn't necessary.
You have options, you can buy things from vendor up until lvl50. Why would you buy the same gear at a ridiculous price just because try to make profit of your ignorance ?
06-09-2015, 11:55 PM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeyis

This is only an issue for alts. And this game isnt alt friendly anyway. Which in my opinion is a good thing.

As a new player you do not want access to the auction house early on, it will only cost you tons of gil. Even more so for someone that is new to mmos.

So, you're saying even if someone knows how to study the market but new to the game, they can't play the market right away because it might cost them too much gil? What someone do with their gil is their own business. What the game forces you to do is something entirely different. Forcing a basic feature like that to not unlock for an MMO is very outlandish.
06-09-2015, 11:59 PM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

People tend to make a really big deal about Auction Houses. Apparently it was a very negative point for v1.0, even though it wasn't necessary.
You have options, you can buy things from vendor up until lvl50. Why would you buy the same gear at a ridiculous price just because try to make profit of your ignorance ?

Some people play the auction house from day one in many MMOs. It's not a new idea. People don't just buy the things they need from the auction house. It's there to make people gil

Before you say how do you make gil at low levels like level 1? Buy from vendor sell on auction house for profit. It's a very old trick that players have been doing since launch.

Before you say "Well that's why we can't access it at low level" You're wrong, you can buy but not sell at low levels. My issue is with the "Not selling part"
06-09-2015, 11:59 PM
Nevaldus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elladie

Somehow Botanist of Light and Carpenter of Light don't have quite the same ring to them ... Why would the Ishgardians be prepared to forsake their isolationist policies because someone is a really REALLY good gardener?!

Joking aside, it's been made pretty clear that our characters only get to go to Ishgard because of the events in 2.5s MSQ, and that's not open to negotiation it seems. Personally I'm happy with that; I've very much enjoyed the story, and I don't really get why other people don't enjoy it. But, hey, different strokes etc. I guess if someone really can't bring themselves to grit their teeth, get some help from their FC mates, and soldier on through - skipping all the cutscenes naturally - then buying the expansion probably isn't worth it

Completely agree with this.
06-10-2015, 12:00 AM
AnaviAnael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Well that's the issue with this kind of story and MMOs. "We" have access? No you don't, the WoL has access and in my version of the game, I'm the WoL, the rest of you guys are nameless schmucks, I don't recall all those people rooting out the Inquisitor with me, heck it was only me and Alphinaud meeting with Aymeric or Haurchefant at the end of 2.55 too.. Only about 3 others stopped those Heretics in Snowcloak.. And Only about 7 others with Shiva and Vishap. What's SE going to do when they introduce the next 24 man raid and at a minimum only one person (The WoL) has access to Ishgard from the outside and at most either people do (The WoL and their nameless buddies)?

You know what? You're absolutely right. You should be the only one allowed to enter Ishgard. We nameless schmucks will wait outside.
06-10-2015, 12:01 AM
Kauthryn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevaldus

Completely agree with this.

I honestly hope that the company's modus operandi is not, "new players need to grit their teeth and deal with it." A shrinking population is not a healthy one for an MMO.
06-10-2015, 12:01 AM
Aeyis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

So, you're saying even if someone knows how to study the market but new to the game, they can't play the market right away because it might cost them too much gil? What someone do with their gil is their own business. What the game forces you to do is something entirely different. Forcing a basic feature like that to not unlock for an MMO is very outlandish.

My apologies if you took that as some kind of personal insult. That was merely my advice from having made several dozens of characters and a large time of mmo experience in many games. Noone starts with a good knowledge of a games market off the bat. Having access to the auction house at level 1 wont help you.

You act as tho it takes huge effort to unlock when all it requires is to level to 18, why the huge hyperbole?
06-10-2015, 12:02 AM
Tuathaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Your comment makes no sense. Have you even read any of this thread and what it's about?

I have a better grasp than you apparently. You can level a doh or dol 1-50 get geared and aquire a relic weapon with out doing any of the msq past level 10. They incorporated that system now they are telling players to level a Dom or dow or bugger off.
06-10-2015, 12:06 AM
Aeyis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

I have a better grasp than you apparently. You can level a doh or dol 1-50 get geared and aquire a relic weapon with out doing any of the msq past level 10. They incorporated that system now they are telling players to level a Dom or dow or bugger off.

This is mostly true but not entirely. Unlocking beasttribes and the (for a crafter) very valuable Ixali faction requires level 41~+ (of a combat class) and unlocking the MSQ up to a certain point. So they already started with ''DoM/DoQ or bugger off'' before heavensward and its requirements.
06-10-2015, 12:09 AM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeyis

My apologies if you took that as some kind of personal insult. That was merely my advice from having made several dozens of characters and a large time of mmo experience in many games. Noone starts with a good knowledge of a games market off the bat. Having access to the auction house at level 1 wont help you.

You act as tho it takes huge effort to unlock when all it requires is to level to 18, why the huge hyperbole?

As the people before me said, people enjoy different play style in MMOs. You mentioning having dozens of characters and a large time of mmo experience, should know that. Some people enjoy playing the market, some enjoy combat, some enjoy just BSing around in taverns. There is something off if the design of an MMO is to force everyone to bottleneck the same thing.

level 18 is 17 levels too many for people who just want to play the market. I know, because I am one of those people. After launch, I was hurrying til I got my retainer, then I sat there for weeks to play what I could. I got my FC a Medium housing on Shiva immediately after housing was implemented, it was my enjoyment to do so. What I didn't enjoy was having to go through the story for that.

Let's get back to the whole. Options thing. more options = better. Less = bad. It's the very basic design of MMOs

EDIT:

Example: Would you rather have more classes or just the launch ones? Basically the same with playstyle. Give people who doesn't want to do the MSQ the chance to go to ishgard at 50, they can grind fates or whatever without doing the MSQ. Those who care for the story? Well go ahead it's not like you will be force to not do them.
06-10-2015, 12:14 AM
Kauthryn

I feel it was a little harsh to say that people that are master craftsmen wouldn't have a reason to go to Ishgard either. You're the equivalent of the WoL in making... I don't know... jello. Surely a culinarian of your standard would please the Ishgardian peoples.
06-10-2015, 12:15 AM
Felis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwho

Actually, you can't. The game requires you to be DoW or DoM for the vast majority of non crafting and non gathering quests. Trust me, I tried.

Trust me, you did something wrong. Have you tried it with the right level?

Accepted a MSQ as a Leatherworker

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2qjkvuh.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/14y2ueh.jpg

Killed the quest enemies with Archer (because battle part). Class changes not required in quests with no battle parts.
http://oi58.tinypic.com/288vxnd.jpg

Finished the quest as a Leatherworker again
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2s9q13n.jpg

Earned quest exp for Leatherworker
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2r6cubb.jpg
06-10-2015, 12:17 AM
Kauthryn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felis

Trust me, you did something wrong. Have you tried it with the right level?

Accepted a MSQ as a Leatherworker

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2qjkvuh.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/14y2ueh.jpg

Killed the quest enemies with Archer (because battle part). Class changes not required in quests with no battle parts.
http://oi58.tinypic.com/288vxnd.jpg

Finished the quest as a Leatherworker again
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2s9q13n.jpg

Earned quest exp for Leatherworker
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2r6cubb.jpg

But you have to have a DoW, by your own admission, to do that...
06-10-2015, 12:17 AM
Malevicton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

As the people before me said, people enjoy different play style in MMOs. You mentioning having dozens of characters and a large time of mmo experience, should know that. Some people enjoy playing the market, some enjoy combat, some enjoy just BSing around in taverns. There is something off if the design of an MMO is to force everyone to bottleneck the same thing.

level 18 is 17 levels too many for people who just want to play the market. I know, because I am one of those people. After launch, I was hurrying til I got my retainer, then I sat there for weeks to play what I could. I got my FC a Medium housing on Shiva immediately after housing was implemented, it was my enjoyment to do so. What I didn't enjoy was having to go through the story for that.

Let's get back to the whole. Options thing. more options = better. Less = bad. It's the very basic design of MMOs

You may have to compromise your gameplay to the game itself. That's true of all games. Even in MMOs, which appeal to multiple demographics, you can't completely isolate the experiences. Honestly I'm amazed at how much of the game you can already play as a crafter. They give people so many options in this game already. More options is generally good (generally), but it can't keep expanding forever. You have to eventually draw a line in the sand for the game's direction; in this case it's the msq. Msq is the thing that binds all of the ffxiv players together under a united gameplay goal. Whether your a hardcore raider, a casual raider, a casual nonraider, a hardcore crafter, a casual crafter, or anything else, we all have one common goal; one thing that identifies us all as playing the same game instead of a conglomerate of slightly relevant minigames.

Personally I think that's fine. It's not an absurd amount of effort, and it's literally the only thing everyone has to do. It's kind of the main thing of the game. If you really don't like it so much that it might keep you from playing, then this may honestly not be the game for you. You're essentially saying you don't enjoy the main part of the game... Other games have more crafting-oriented experiences where combat is a side-feature if that's more your speed.
06-10-2015, 12:17 AM
Aeyis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

I feel it was a little harsh to say that people that are master craftsmen wouldn't have a reason to go to Ishgard either. You're the equivalent of the WoL in making... I don't know... jello. Surely a culinarian of your standard would please the Ishgardian peoples.

That is true, even the Sultana was pleased with my cuisine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felis

Trust me, you did something wrong. Have you tried it with the right level?

You already have a battle class at 50. Without one at the required level you are unable to accept such quests. I've tried that in the past, it didnt work. (weaver was my first class to reach 50)
06-10-2015, 12:20 AM
MilesSaintboroguh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

I have a better grasp than you apparently. You can level a doh or dol 1-50 get geared and aquire a relic weapon with out doing any of the msq past level 10. They incorporated that system now they are telling players to level a Dom or dow or bugger off.

Might want to relook at your claim there, buster. First you say you can get a relic without doing the main story, yet you still have to level a battle class to get that far anyway while also complaining about Square "forcing" people to level up a battle class. Second, you can't do the relic quests without unlocking the hard mode versions of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan, which also require you to fight their story mode versions and that also means leveling up a battle class to even fight them.

Me thinks you don't have a good grasp on this game as you claim to have.
06-10-2015, 12:21 AM
NorthernLadMSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

I have a better grasp than you apparently. You can level a doh or dol 1-50 get geared and aquire a relic weapon with out doing any of the msq past level 10. They incorporated that system now they are telling players to level a Dom or dow or bugger off.

LOL, ok sure you do. Keep telling yourself that. You're posting nonsense about quests giving no xp, when it's been explicitly stated (and publicly by the devs no less) that they are actually vastly nerfing quests in ARR to help new players catch up.
06-10-2015, 12:22 AM
Kauthryn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malevicton

You may have to compromise your gameplay to the game itself...

It feels rather disingenuous to equate the expansion of an extant field of play (crafting) with pushing boundaries all that far. Crafting is a cornerstone of all MMOs and accommodating that playstyle can only be better for the longevity of the game. I know someone that played World of Warcraft only to level pets to max level -- she found it rewarding, so why not?

Quite unlike Kelzack, I advocate for total independence to level. Let people get exp from chocobo racing if they want! The more people playing and the more having fun is the more money for SE. A lucrative game will not be shut down.
06-10-2015, 12:23 AM
Kelzack

Quote:

it's literally the only thing everyone has to do.

How is that good at all. Everyone doing the same thing in an MMO is not how it should be? MMOs are made as living breathing worlds of the IP. That means people have, again, options to do whatever they can.

Let me give you another example:

An MMO starts out with 32 classes. 9 months after launch it decides to cut down to 9 classes, because it wants to try to get everyone doing the same goals. The MMO tanked.

That should have been what every developer learn from Star Wars Galaxies. More is always gonna be great in this sense because it will draw a larger demographics.
06-10-2015, 12:24 AM
Felis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

But you have to have a DoW, by your own admission, to do that...

Only for the battle parts. In the whole MSQ fom 2.0 to 2.55 you do much more talking to NPC than fighting.
Just level up a battle class with FATEs parallel to your crafting class and you can do 80% of the MSQ as a crafter.
06-10-2015, 12:26 AM
Allistar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

Good morning!

snip.

well written post, and hopefully something the devs take some time discussing, especially the point about future expansions and their requirements.
06-10-2015, 12:29 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

snip

The thing is and the major appeal of FFXIV is that everything can be done on one character The only reason SE actually opened up more slots to make more characters was because of the feedback to do so. Even then, a lot requested it just to have more inventory space. Only reason to make an alt at the time was to do Coils more than once a week or just for the hell of it. Even then, systems have been in place to make it less appealing. It isn't that I am necessarily against a BoA system, but I can understand why SE would not care to put one in.
06-10-2015, 12:30 AM
Kelzack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

The thing is and the major appeal of FFXIV is that everything can be done on one character The only reason SE actually opened up more slots to make more characters was because of the feedback to do so. Even then, a lot requested it just to have more inventory space. Only reason to make an alt at the time was to do Coils more than once a week. Even then, systems have been in place to make it less appealing. It isn't that I am necessarily against a BoA system, but I can understand why SE would not care to put one in.

They would care when the money starts dropping. It's how it always is
06-10-2015, 12:32 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

They would care when the money starts dropping. It's how it always is

You think this game will lose money for lack of support for alt characters? I am willing the bet the amount of people who make various alts are an extremely low percentage.
06-10-2015, 12:33 AM
odintius

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Might want to relook at your claim there, buster. First you say you can get a relic without doing the main story, yet you still have to level a battle class to get that far anyway while also complaining about Square "forcing" people to level up a battle class. Second, you can't do the relic quests without unlocking the hard mode versions of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan, which also require you to fight their story mode versions and that also means leveling up a battle class to even fight them.

Me thinks you don't have a good grasp on this game as you claim to have.

Also you have to complete these complete class and job quest, complete main scenario quest 2.0 version to even be able to even start the HM primals also.
06-10-2015, 12:39 AM
Felis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

I have a better grasp than you apparently. You can level a doh or dol 1-50 get geared and aquire a relic weapon with out doing any of the msq past level 10. They incorporated that system now they are telling players to level a Dom or dow or bugger off.

The Weaponsmith of Legend
Prerequisite Quest: The Ultimate Weapon
06-10-2015, 12:43 AM
Duuude007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

So far there isn't a person saying a new level 10 should be able to go to Ishgard they are just saying lose up on the main story requirement.

Uh, huh. And let me guess, you, like all of the other so-called 'bleeding hearts' in these topics, probably already are guaranteed access to Ishgard on day one.

Rather than people trying to speak for new players, it would be refreshing to see new players beginning in late July make up their own minds about what they care about in Heavensward's gating system.

After all, your progression experience, while likely similar to mine, is also likely to be vastly dissimilar to the progression of an incoming new player. It would be disingenuous to suggest that we know what concerns them before it even happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

There is likely some lore like reason that gives it a pass, even if it may be a poor one. If I can give this game credit for anything, the lore team always has an explanation or reasoning for something even if on the surface it does not make sense.

I would applaud your explaining-away this gating as some sort of weak retroactive continuity...But you couldn't be more wrong in that assessment.

The city of Ishgard, since 1.0 launch, has always been at arms length but never accessible. They couldn't get away with such an obvious roadblock without backing it up with dozens of quests and NPCs explaining, in detail, why we cannot get in (let alone witness them raise a finger to support the Grand Companies' many campaigns in the MSQ), which over the past five years became an inherent proof positive that attaining such access would not be as simple as wearing a fancy level 50 outfit at the front gates. Which is exactly what people like the OP are demanding 'should happen'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

And I just moved my guild from wow to this game, they love it. But they also hate it. Why? because people want to play with their friends! but they are forced to go through the massive amount gating instead of quickly catching up and play with me through raids and other end game stuff..

Carries still happen. Even vets benefit from easy tomes, spiritbonding, desynth/lights and leveling alts in the process. Why can't your friends look at it like that, and not leave your newly migrated folks to fend for themselves? SE gave you lemons, why not make lemonade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

That means people have, again, options to do whatever they can.

People confusing Sandbox with Sandparks/Themeparks again.

Only one well-known MMO Sandbox has stood the test of time with resounding success, because the model is VERY difficult to sustain, let alone thrive.

XIV is not EVE, nor should it strive to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felis

The Weaponsmith of Legend
Prerequisite Quest: The Ultimate Weapon

Tuathaa is counting lucis as relics. I know, hilariously misleading. Just figured I would save you the trouble of arguing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

Are you required to have the Ixial mount in order to PVP or obtain the swan set? I believe your argument is a little specious.

Are you required to have the Ishgard access in order to continue to XP or profit as DoH/DoL? I believe your argument is a little specious.
06-10-2015, 12:47 AM
Lewtskie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzack

How is that good at all. Everyone doing the same thing in an MMO is not how it should be? MMOs are made as living breathing worlds of the IP. That means people have, again, options to do whatever they can.

Are we going to be thinking of the game as a game or the game as its own world for all this context? You seem to want to bounce between the two and never settle, always going back to whichever would give more foundation to what you want.

As a game, more options is great and just side-swiping everything to do what you want if you so desire, sure, why the hell not.

As it's own living, breathing world? No. You can't just side-step everything that it happening just to do as you please. A 'living' world has structure, has a flow.

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