Swimming and underwater content?

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i think its hilarious how almost no one is against swimming as if underwater battles dont look rediculous... yet everyone and their mom argues against jumping because of how rediculous it looks.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcolj...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21FY6smddkY

Games with good underwater combat, from a turn-based game and an action game. Doesn't really look ridiculous at all, except from fire weapons working underwater in MH Tri but that's beside the point. It can work well if they did it properly.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcolj...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21FY6smddkY

Games with good underwater combat, from a turn-based game and an action game. Doesn't really look ridiculous at all, except from fire weapons working underwater in MH Tri but that's beside the point. It can work well if they did it properly.

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but its not beside the point, its the point exactly.
neither of those battles look any good at all to me. they look just as i described battling under water and only better than every MMO because its a console game with attention payed specifically to those battles. even if they did pay that much attention to under water battles, theyd still be rediculously unrealistic just as youve shown.
i get casting magic and using crystals to craft isnt very realistic, but doing all of that under water is even more unrealistic. its always seemed like a step just too far.

water creates massive resistance against your body. it causes you to fatigue greatly and it extinguishes heat. its just so far out there to me. even if you could cast fire magic and swing a thousand pound blade in water, shouldnt there SOME type of explanation for doing any of that?

jumping gets me on top of and around things. swimming doesnt do anything at all for me.

oh one more thing i never understood about under water battles - the battle cries or "HYA!!"s and things like that. where are the bubbles? arent you losing breath? how can you even make that noise when your fighting under water?
UGH IT BOGGLES MY BRAIN...

Everyone is going to find something in this game to bitch and moan about, everyone, be it things that are already in the game or things that are in the works. If they listened to every single complaint they get we wouldn't even have a damn game. xD

And I thought those battles looked good, earlier when someone mentioned going AFK underwater for a long time, I was reminded of FFX where you dove underwater to explore that ancient tech stuff around the beginning of the game, and those ruins (and your character didn't die if you stepped away lol).

Edit: and to become immersed in any fantasy game, it requires just a little suspension of disbelief, just saying.

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Originally Posted by weeble

i'm not into water content much, even though i'm looking forward to gw2 it's not for the water content in it. i didn't like it in wow. i think my dislike of water in video games is routed back when i was little, playing mario brothers, 2.1 board i believe it was, ....dun dun dun water. was one of the only levels in that game that no matter how many times u beat the game always took the same amount of time unlike the rest of the levels lol.

but yeah i prefer no water in my mmo's to swim in at all, now boats to fully control on top like some of the older ff series ..yeck yes.

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But you can at least acknowledge that a huge amount of people would love an underwater system, and that it would add more appeal to the game overall? Even if you don't personally like it? Plus, it's not like you'll likely even have to participate in it.

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i'm not into water content much, even though i'm looking forward to gw2 it's not for the water content in it. i didn't like it in wow. i think my dislike of water in video games is routed back when i was little, playing mario brothers, 2.1 board i believe it was, ....dun dun dun water. was one of the only levels in that game that no matter how many times u beat the game always took the same amount of time unlike the rest of the levels lol.

but yeah i prefer no water in my mmo's to swim in at all, now boats to fully control on top like some of the older ff series ..yeck yes.

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yes, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

but its not beside the point, its the point exactly.
neither of those battles look any good at all to me. they look just as i described battling under water and only better than every MMO because its a console game with attention payed specifically to those battles. even if they did pay that much attention to under water battles, theyd still be rediculously unrealistic just as youve shown.
i get casting magic and using crystals to craft isnt very realistic, but doing all of that under water is even more unrealistic. its always seemed like a step just too far.

water creates massive resistance against your body. it causes you to fatigue greatly and it extinguishes heat. its just so far out there to me. even if you could cast fire magic and swing a thousand pound blade in water, shouldnt there SOME type of explanation for doing any of that?

jumping gets me on top of and around things. swimming doesnt do anything at all for me.

oh one more thing i never understood about under water battles - the battle cries or "HYA!!"s and things like that. where are the bubbles? arent you losing breath? how can you even make that noise when your fighting under water?
UGH IT BOGGLES MY BRAIN...

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I agree with this statement to an extent, which is why I brought up the idea of devices that create oxygen bubbles or whatever. In order to traverse underground, you should require certain types of gear to actually make it effective. Some kind of rudimentary scuba gear, a simple snorkel-like thing, air pockets in caves, whatever.

There's a limit to how much a person can realistically suspend their sense of disbelief, regardless of whether or not you're playing a fantasy game. There has to be SOME level of reality in there, or else you can't relate and thus immerse yourself.

Well Monster Hunter has its own set of rules in its own universe. I agree it doesn't make sense but it makes for some really fun gameplay. You actually do have to surface for air occasionally but you can swim for unnaturally long periods of time underwater.

Final Fantasy X though I never questioned. Sure it was never explained but they presented it in such a way that I never needed an explanation. People can swim really fast and breathe underwater in Spira, why not? I guess sometimes the more attention a game brings to something and the more it tries to explain the more plausible the explanation needs to be. If it's just an accepted law of that particular world and everyone treats it as such then little attention is even brought to it. It's a fantasy world, they do it because they can lol.

Final Fantasy XIV is a world filled with magic that has little explanation. Spell casting is often given little explanation in the game as it's just an accepted thing you can do. Being able to "die" and be resurrected at a big floating crystal is the same. While you're at it why don't you add surviving being stomped on by a giant buffalo to the list? All things that we simply accept because that's just how they are in the world. Being able to breath underwater be it through spell, gear or just because is just another one of those things.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I agree with this statement to an extent, which is why I brought up the idea of devices that create oxygen bubbles or whatever. In order to traverse underground, you should require certain types of gear to actually make it effective. Some kind of rudimentary scuba gear, a simple snorkel-like thing, air pockets in caves, whatever.

There's a limit to how much a person can realistically suspend their sense of disbelief, regardless of whether or not you're playing a fantasy game. There has to be SOME level of reality in there, or else you can't relate and thus immerse yourself.

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underwater gear allowing you to perform closely or equal to on land would work wonderfully and add immersion i do believe.

i thought about this but am dissapointed that no RPG (that i have come across) has made this step. for some reason only espionage games get it.

And I just want to ask, if being able to fight and breathe underwater, and *gasp* go AFK without dying is an immersion killer, why are you guys even playing a member of the Final Fantasy series?

http://youtu.be/hTc9sLmOR0A

Does that just make your head explode?

If you don't reply, I'll take that as a yes.

Gotta get to the Veldt, recruit Gau, and find his shiny...

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Originally Posted by Balbanes

I totally agree. It doesn't have to be like WoW, since that's what everyone seems to be complaining about. This could be done really well, and be a lot of fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me9x9STwDiw <--- linky

This is a short video I made that shows how jumping/falling/swimming/underwater battle could be like in XIV. Taken from EQ2.
*edit* the slow falling is due to a Safe Fall character trait.

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Heh, I was just thinking after seeing a couple posts in this thread, "You know, for all those folks who act outraged when people suggest they want SE to turn the game into WoW... there's an awful lot of people asking for things that are either specific to WoW, or otherwise use WoW as a direct reference".

I mean, the two quests linked in a previous post (the Katamari Damaci one, etc) above... I hope we never see anything like that in XIV. Blizzard abandoned any pretense of keeping the integrity of the world and setting of WoW and have gone crazy with cultural references, to other games, to actors, and so forth. That's one of the things that, to me, killed any sense of WoW's Azeroth being anything more than a game. It's all but completely undermined the sense of Azeroth being a unique alternate world, and has reduced it to a haven of never-ending cultural wink-nods.

Seeing references to Mr. T, or "Haris Pilton" or any of a number of other overt references just seems so, so horribly out of place to me. All it gets from me is a groan and an eye-roll. I don't even see it as creative. "Hey let's use a Paris Hilton reference! She's popular in the news right now! Woo-hoo! Free content!"

FFXIV already has some cultural references, but they're definitely downplayed and much more subtle. They don't call attention to themselves like they do in WoW. Some are pretty obscure and likely wouldn't even occur to a number of people. For example, I found one early on in FFXIV's beta that's a reference to a Radiohead video. It's not even a lyric from the song. It's based on a line of subtitled dialog that's on the screen at the very end of the video. Unless you've seen that video and recognize where it's from, it would just seem like random psychobabble.

SOE has delved into the cultural references as well. However, not as badly as Blizzard. One thing SOE has done a better job than Blizzard at is keeping Norrath's integrity as a virtual world mostly "intact". They respect the lore, the setting, the areas, etc and don't regularly break the fourth wall with cultural reference "wink-nods".

SE does a great job of this in their games, making each world feel internally consistent and maintaining a sense of integrity and believability. They feel like truly alternate worlds. I really hope they stick to that in XIV as well.

I'd really prefer to see them be creative by working in in-references and such that pertain to people, places or events in Eorzea itself. That would help give the world that much more sense of authenticity, than making cheesy references to some popular internet meme or something.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

And I just want to ask, if being able to fight and breathe underwater, and *gasp* go AFK without dying is an immersion killer, why are you guys even playing a member of the Final Fantasy series?

http://youtu.be/hTc9sLmOR0A

Does that just make your head explode?

If you don't reply, I'll take that as a yes.

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See the second point of my previous post.

Also, while you and Arcell are right about crazy shit going on, the problem with your example is that we're talking about pre-existing characters working within the physics and bounds of reality within their specific worlds. It doesn't have to make sense, because I'm not Cloud or Sephiroth or Vincent.

However in an MMO, it's slightly different, in that your avatar is(ostensibly) you and my avatar is me. I can't jump around all crazy like your typical Final Fantasy character. If I'm underwater, my armor isn't going to allow me to magically float as if it didn't weigh 40 lbs.(unless it can), etc. Obviously liberties can be taken BECAUSE it's a fantasy game and we just chalk it up to being badass looking, but I do believe there IS a limit before we just laugh and say "man, this looks dumb as shit."

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

underwater gear allowing you to perform closely or equal to on land would work wonderfully and add immersion i do believe.

i thought about this but am dissapointed that no RPG (that i have come across) has made this step. for some reason only espionage games get it.

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http://www.wowhead.com/item=10506/deepdive-helmet

In WoW, there are items and equipment that enhance your underwater abilities, there are even underwater mounts. Basically you want it more WoW-like. :P

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

See the second point of my previous post.

Also, while you and Arcell are right about crazy shit going on, the problem with your example is that we're talking about pre-existing characters working within the physics and bounds of reality within their specific worlds. It doesn't have to make sense, because I'm not Cloud or Sephiroth or Vincent.

However in an MMO, it's slightly different, in that your avatar is(ostensibly) you and my avatar is me. I can't jump around all crazy like your typical Final Fantasy character. If I'm underwater, my armor isn't going to allow me to magically float as if it didn't weigh 40 lbs.(unless it can), etc. Obviously liberties can be taken BECAUSE it's a fantasy game and we just chalk it up to being badass looking, but I do believe there IS a limit before we just laugh and say "man, this looks dumb as shit."

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I really don't see how allowing a character to swim underwater is so.... radical to you. Making my character equip snorkels or scuba diving gear seems like more of a step away from Final Fantasy to me. I'm not saying there should be none, but I am saying you should have some faith in SE, because I am sure they can implement swimming and underwater content in a way that most (not all, because no matter what someone is going to cry and bitch and moan) people can enjoy.

I remember Nyzul Undersea Ruins and I remember looking out the giant glass windows, wishing I could be outside looking in, so I could see what they actually looked like. I want something like that in FFXIV, I think it would be awesome to swim down and see some massive ancient ruins or some giant creature.

Also, not directly but partially related to underwater content... >_> I hope they add some areas like Purgonorgo Isle!

Our characters are just as much FF characters as any other. The only difference is that we had a hand in their creation so we feel more attached. They are no more you or me than cloud or squall. I cannot jump into the air and strike the ground causing a shockwave but I accept it as the rules of the world. I don't think twice about my Pugilist striking an enemy creating a dazzling display which eventually explodes into flower petals. That is just how things are.

The rules of the world are governed by its lore. To my knowledge there is no lore or even suggestion that states anything about limitations of underwater exploration. Until there is anything goes.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

http://www.wowhead.com/item=10506/deepdive-helmet

In WoW, there are items and equipment that enhance your underwater abilities, there are even underwater mounts. Basically you want it more WoW-like. :P



I really don't see how allowing a character to swim underwater is so.... radical to you. Making my character equip snorkels or scuba diving gear seems like more of a step away from Final Fantasy to me. I'm not saying there should be none, but I am saying you should have some faith in SE, because I am sure they can implement swimming and underwater content in a way that most (not all, because no matter what someone is going to cry and bitch and moan) people can enjoy.

I remember Nyzul Undersea Ruins and I remember looking out the giant glass windows, wishing I could be outside looking in, so I could see what they actually looked like. I want something like that in FFXIV, I think it would be awesome to swim down and see some massive ancient ruins or some giant creature.

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I didn't say I was against swimming, hell I'm all about it. I'm just against things looking too crazy. Of course, like Arcell pointed out, a world is governed by its lore, so I guess it all depends on how they make it.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Also, not directly but partially related to underwater content... >_> I hope they add some areas like Purgonorgo Isle!

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I loved Purgonorgo Isle. Just saying.

I am in favor of swimming and content underwater.

Why is Galka wearing a Bra...?

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

I loved Purgonorgo Isle. Just saying.

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Hopefully the area has more content on it then just a useless island.

I loved the Butercherblock video linked! It was so much fun jumping off the docks with a fae!!

I'm pretty sure the new outfits for the summer fest are all part of Yoshida's master plan to bring swimming into the game.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Seeing references to Mr. T, or "Haris Pilton" or any of a number of other overt references just seems so, so horribly out of place to me. All it gets from me is a groan and an eye-roll. I don't even see it as creative. "Hey let's use a Paris Hilton reference! She's popular in the news right now! Woo-hoo! Free content!"

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Couldn't agree more. Let's hope we never see a reference to Paris Hilton reference in XIV.

A Matt Hilton reference wouldn't bother me so much.

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Originally Posted by Natt

I actually thought, before the game came out, that they would be implementing "Jumping" and "Swimming" to the game. Of course no one wants a copy of WOW,

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Jumping and swimming are not exclusive to wow, blizzard did NOT invent jumping and swimming.

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Originally Posted by Randis

Jumping and swimming are not exclusive to wow, blizzard did NOT invent jumping and swimming.

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Who did? The Sumerians?

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Who did? The Sumerians?

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Cave men and dinosaurs invented earths versions of jumping and swimming actually...

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Originally Posted by Reika

Cave men and dinosaurs invented earths versions of jumping and swimming actually...

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Super Mario Brothers taught it to them.

Joking aside, swimming content and even ways to simulate said content fairly as a challenge(breath and all) was introduced in Everquest, complete with underwater bosses and spells to extend breath.

well yoshi-p has announced swimsuits, who knows =P

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Originally Posted by Zephyrus

well yoshi-p has announced swimsuits, who knows =P

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Honestly, those bikini's aren't for swimming (unless you like falling out of your top when a wave hits). Those bikini's are for sun-bathing, laying around on the beach or at the pool. :D