Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

For LoL that might work, but in the original example you used do you think they learned a lesson about being a jerk, or about sharing parse information with strangers? Cause if anything, you might've just made it worse. You can still easily trash talk without parse info, but if someone asks for their dps, they might think that person is trying to trick them like you did.

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I dont really see the issue with it. Just because it is "against the rules" does not mean that it should be. Obviously serious things like boting and rmt should be reported everytime. but parsing? Why? Why should sharing dps numbers be a bannable offense?

On a side note the OP is now in another post talking about how he bought his Titan EX clear... Kind of really adds a new perspective to the post when reading it. Anyways you guys have a good day. Time to go home and play dem gamessss.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Well its more than that. You should have a solid spell/ability rotation, decent gear, and as much min/maxing as possible. None of that makes you an "elitist", just a good player! ;P

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Guess I am good! :3

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

On a side note the OP is now in another post talking about how he bought his Titan EX clear... Kind of really adds a new perspective to the post when reading it. Anyways you guys have a good day. Time to go home and play dem gamessss.

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People lie on the internet!!!!! O.o lol

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Yes you do. If you don't do that then you are an average player. If you do it, then you are a good player. :D Good players try to do the best job they can. That includes knowing fights in duties/alliances and getting ready for group content outside of group content (such as working on min/max). If you don't do that, and just do things as they come along you can still do alright, but you would land squarely in the legions of average players out there! :P

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think they meant you don't need min/maxing (which by definition, would be using racial traits as well, for barely even a minimal gain in numbers) to be good. Cause lets be honest, if ya really were practicing what ya preached, why ya not a lala as a Mage :3. eh, see what i did there. XD
Nahh but seriously tho, you can be a good player without that min/max and only world firsters consider even doing that. Which I heavily doubt many posting here are gunning for.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

I dont really see the issue with it. Just because it is "against the rules" does not mean that it should be. Obviously serious things like boting and rmt should be reported everytime. but parsing? Why? Why should sharing dps numbers be a bannable offense?

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I am not really offering an opinion, but just stating where the facts lie. It isn't necessarily because of the parser, it is that you are using a 3rd party program to harass another player, which is technically breaking two rules there. Yoshi-P has said a lot of times that it is technically against the ToS made by SE's legal team, not him necessarily making the rule, but is not going to go after people using 3rd party programs unless it is greatly affecting the game and other people. He understands the use for them, but for legal reasons, the team has to take action when you are caught using it in public.

There really should be -something-, even if just for yourself to see how your damage is and compare it for your own self improvement. How much would it help? Not that much. It would be a step in the right direction however.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Why should sharing dps numbers be a bannable offense?

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If you wanna stuff your epeen down some newbs throat, I'm going to stuff the ToS down yours. Fair, no?

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Originally Posted by Intaki

If you wanna stuff your epeen down some newbs throat, I'm going to stuff the ToS down yours. Fair, no?

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No, not really fair lol. You're getting someone banned for addon use, even though the offense was harassment. You're manipulating the rules to your advantage. I'm not trying to defend people harassing-via-parse, but as I stated earlier you're being morally neutral at best. You may not be the bad guy, but you're definitely not the good guy either.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Yes you do. If you don't do that then you are an average player. If you do it, then you are a good player. :D Good players try to do the best job they can. That includes knowing fights in duties/alliances and getting ready for group content outside of group content (such as working on min/max). If you don't do that, and just do things as they come along you can still do alright, but you would land squarely in the legions of average players out there! :P

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Eh. I didn't want to invest the gil on materia or the time to spiritbond for my relics. The difference between a three-way split in stats and a two-way split is pretty negligible overall. Even without a "perfect" relic, I still consider myself a pretty good Paladin (not to mention Scholar, though I could use some work on Warrior and Monk.

I see what you're trying to say, but I feel like it's really simplified. I don't feel like you have enough tiers. "Average" to me is the guy in all poetics gear or even some soldiery gear. He's the guy that's still struggling with T9 and doesn't necessarily understand the full use of all of his skills and abilities. "Good" means you're working towards BiS and you have a solid grasp on your class. You can salvage some pretty dire situations through proper applications of skills. If you're interested in endgame content, you may be in deep progression or you may have it on farm, depending on how much time you can spend on raiding and how good your network is. "Great" would be the top of the line for me. Those are the players that not only have BiS and have turns on farm, they're doing crazy stuff like 7 warrior T13 clears. If shit goes south, it doesn't matter. It's all in a day's work and you can recover all but the absolute worst of mistakes. Those of us that are "Average" watch in awe. Those of us that are "Good" see something to strive for.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

On a side note the OP is now in another post talking about how he bought his Titan EX clear... Kind of really adds a new perspective to the post when reading it. Anyways you guys have a good day. Time to go home and play dem gamessss.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

People lie on the internet!!!!! O.o lol

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Not exactly, just left out some details. Probably hoping to tease readers enough to look for the post in question. Well played.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

If you wanna stuff your epeen down some newbs throat, I'm going to stuff the ToS down yours. Fair, no?

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ToS or no, it's still a double standard that tanks and heals get an inordinate amount of grief based on their performance, but dps get at worst a proverbial slap on the wrist because they don't know what the combo system iis.im fine never giving deeps grief if they never complain about tanks and heals playing slowly or inefficiently, loosing hate or occasionally letting people die.

If your using a program to give you an advantage over other players not using said program. That is against the ToS.

You should be banned for such programs. Yes.

The programs also not perfect. It only reads your own DPS correctly, and most of the time doesn't even do that well.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

There really should be -something-, even if just for yourself to see how your damage is and compare it for your own self improvement..

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Addons like what WoW has would be amazing for the game. DPS meters while sometimes "annoying" when people excessively link them really do help people improve on dps and hps.

Trying to improve your own performance? Take a look at what others in the group are doing and adjust what you do until your numbers are good.

This all being said, I have played WoW for years and I will acknowledge that there are some very real negatives that come from performance meters. Namely people harassing others over bad performance or not understanding how to read the meters properly. That being said, if you are in a group that is wiping at 10% on a boss everytime, properly using meters make it very easy to identify the issues and fix the group.

I think the good of meters outweighs the bad.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If your using a program to give you an advantage over other players not using said program. That is against the ToS.

You should be banned for such programs. Yes.

The programs also not perfect. It only reads your own DPS correctly, and most of the time doesn't even do that well.

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If you outlaw parsers, only outlaws will have parsers.

...In all honesty I have no stance on the things, I just wanted to say that.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

If you wanna stuff your epeen down some newbs throat, I'm going to stuff the ToS down yours. Fair, no?

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Wonder if you will still play the game when addons come out, hint DPS meters will be made and allowed through the system, Blizzard gave the exact same response to why they do not include an official meter yet dps meters exist through addons.

I will take great joy in knowing that you will get berated for low DPS :).

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Wonder if you will still play the game when addons come out, hint DPS meters will be made and allowed through the system, Blizzard gave the exact same response to why they do not include an official meter yet dps meters exist through addons.

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Could they reasonably do this with PS3 and PS4 support, though?

Honestly DPS meters greatly helps average players improve their performance by being able to see what areas they are struggling in easier than without them. If they were allowed I think you would probably see slightly better group performance overall in the community.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Wonder if you will still play the game when addons come out, hint DPS meters will be made and allowed through the system, Blizzard gave the exact same response to why they do not include an official meter yet dps meters exist through addons.

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Except your comparing two different (very different companies.)

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Honestly DPS meters greatly helps average players improve their performance by being able to see what areas they are struggling in easier than without them. If they were allowed I think you would probably see slightly better group performance overall in the community.

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You would also see more hatred, bullying and a worse overall community. Not only that its not perfect yet, the parser only reads what it can grab from the game. However the second they make it legal they also make things like scripts and deadly boss mods legal as well. Coils will then become a complete joke, because the fights become: "Simon Says".

Becareful what you wish for, Macroquest says hi.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Don't forget the skill speed melds :P

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The skill speed melds are to hit the breakpoint for a 9-hit berserk.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Wonder if you will still play the game when addons come out

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I have no problem with people who use parsers, or with the parsers themselves. But if you decide to be a jerk, and you put yourself in a position of vulnerability while you are being a jerk, I see no reason not to exploit that for both the betterment of my community and my personal enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Honestly DPS meters greatly helps average players improve their performance by being able to see what areas they are struggling in easier than without them. If they were allowed I think you would probably see slightly better group performance overall in the community.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Could they reasonably do this with PS3 and PS4 support, though?

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Probably. A company with millions (if not billions) of dollars can find a way! :P

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Could they reasonably do this with PS3 and PS4 support, though?

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PS4 more likely, they can create a program that exists along side FF14 and have the addons uploaded through there, as long as the addons fufill the program parameters it shouldn't cause any problems for sony end of things, then again this game is bringing them in money.

Similer thing is done through WOW addons, you could technically just install by putting the files into the folders or use Curse which is how I can see it working.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If your using a program to give you an advantage over other players not using said program. That is against the ToS.

You should be banned for such programs. Yes.

The programs also not perfect. It only reads your own DPS correctly, and most of the time doesn't even do that well.

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A 2nd window with numbers rolling doesn't give you any tangible advantage. The only reason they are against the toss is because they read game files and any program that reads or interacts with SE'S game files is against the ToS. It has nothing to do with giving an advantage. Speed hacks, bots and such. Those give an advantage. A program that reads your chat log doesn't (unless it's also announcing stuff like monster moves and stuff). But the actual number crunching aspect of parses is only bad because it pokes at SE'S game files.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Except your comparing two different (very different companies.)

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What did yoshi P base this game on again?

during the london fanfest, someone asked to see scaling numbers ingame, yoshi response was to go online to fine out lol, guess who also says the same thing.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

PS4 more likely, they can create a program that exists along side FF14 and have the addons uploaded through there, as long as the addons fufill the program parameters it shouldn't cause any problems for sony end of things, then again this game is bringing them in money.

Similer thing is done through WOW addons, you could technically just install by putting the files into the folders or use Curse which is how I can see it working.

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And then Sony rubs their collective hands together in glee as they figure out the fee to carry it.

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net...4abe3a9e6.jpeg

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Originally Posted by raelgun

What did yoshi P base this game on again?

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Everquest 1? We are following the formula right?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

You would also see more hatred, bullying and a worse overall community. Not only that its not perfect yet, the parser only reads what it can grab from the game. However the second they make it legal they also make things like scripts and deadly boss mods legal as well. Coils will then become a complete joke, because the fights become: "Simon Says".

Becareful what you wish for, Macroquest says hi.

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Spoken like someone who has never played WoW. ;P Are there negatives? Yes! Hell yes! lol

But are there positives? You bet! Meters greatly enhance end game content for people who are trying it.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

A 2nd window with numbers rolling doesn't give you any tangible advantage. The only reason they are against the toss is because they read game files and any program that reads or interacts with SE'S game files is against the ToS. It has nothing to do with giving an advantage. Speed hacks, bots and such. Those give an advantage. A program that reads your chat log doesn't (unless it's also announcing stuff like monster moves and stuff). But the actual number crunching aspect of parses is only bad because it pokes at SE'S game files.

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Wrong, it tells you when things hit you. It tells you whats doing more damage to you, it tells you how much damage your rotation produces, it tells you overall healing output (in many games!)

Knowing how much damage is being done to you in fights isn't an advantage? Knowing when stuff hits you (because your pulling from a script! and reading packets!) isn't an advantage?

Sniffing the packets of other players isn't wrong to you?

It is a huge advantage, quit covering your eyes please.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

I have no problem with people who use parsers, or with the parsers themselves. But if you decide to be a jerk, and you put yourself in a position of vulnerability while you are being a jerk, I see no reason not to exploit that for both the betterment of my community and my personal enjoyment.

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I have to agree. I have nothing against parser use and feel that it can be a valuable tool for endgame.

I have problems with people that use them in regular lolfaceroll dungeons to bully people. -.-

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Sniffing the packets of other players isn't wrong to you?

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But... some players' packets smell like cookies. Cookies are good. :c

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Honestly DPS meters greatly helps average players improve their performance by being able to see what areas they are struggling in easier than without them. If they were allowed I think you would probably see slightly better group performance overall in the community.

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Not to mention all the harassment DPSers would suffer for not being "up to par" with their obnoxiously high expectations of how much DPS a player should be pulling. Even with it being a bannable offense I already got a couple of idiots going like "rofl 180 DPS, kick that noob" on DF groups. If this thing was permitted, the environment here would become exactly like it is in WoW: every run in every dungeon and raid would be an epeen competition between the DPSers, with them constantly mocking and bragging and dissing each other.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Everquest 1? We are following the formula right?

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Prob, no corpse running though back for gear or delvling through death.

The main thing I recall it will be using is the potential lock out system, you be surprised just how much FF14 mirrors WOW, heck even yoshi p attitude as well, you really should see how the developers of WOW/blizzard are like.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

you be surprised just how much FF14 mirrors WOW

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Honestly this game is pretty much WoW but with a Final Fantasy skin, lol.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Not to mention all the harassment DPSers would suffer for not being "up to par" with their obnoxiously high expectations of how much DPS a player should be pulling.

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Not to mention when its actually wrong, because of many factors. Most parsers only start when you are in or out of combat, some of them only record certain things. A lot of parsing is based on many factors and some only pull numbers from people near or close to you. Some have problems recording "Damage over time" effects and damage prevention effects. "Why arn't you doing X?"

It also doesn't record buffs and debuffs.

Parsers are silly, you should be able to "feel" how much damage or healing you can do. You don't need them to win.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Prob, no corpse running though back for gear or delvling through death.

The main thing I recall it will be using is the potential lock out system, you be surprised just how much FF14 mirrors WOW, heck even yoshi p attitude as well, you really should see how the developers of WOW/blizzard are like.

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Except WoW copied Everquest, and Everquest changed over the years to be like WoW before WoW came out. Corpse Running was gone quite a long time ago.

A lot of FFXIV boss fights and strategies come straight from Everquest I and II. Not much from WoW, WoW raids and such are a joke compared.

Forum Rule Number 23 : Any conversation, given sufficient time, will become a debate over DPS meters.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Your number is to low. 23??? Pretty sure that should be higher. Like 43.

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The rule is much older than you think it is.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Not to mention when its actually wrong, because of many factors. Most parsers only start when you are in or out of combat, some of them only record certain things. A lot of parsing is based on many factors and some only pull numbers from people near or close to you. Some have problems recording "Damage over time" effects and damage prevention effects. "Why arn't you doing X?"

It also doesn't record buffs and debuffs.

Parsers are silly, you should be able to "feel" how much damage or healing you can do. You don't need them to win.

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Here, sir, take my like

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Forum Rule Number 23 : Any conversation, given sufficient time, will become a debate over DPS meters.

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Your number is to low. 23??? Pretty sure that should be higher. Like 43.

:P

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Except WoW copied Everquest, and Everquest changed over the years to be like WoW before WoW came out. Corpse Running was gone quite a long time ago.

A lot of FFXIV boss fights and strategies come straight from Everquest I and II. Not much from WoW, WoW raids and such are a joke compared.

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Personally speaking, I have cleared T13 here, and I still find WOW raids harder then this.

If you are trying to compare normal mode raids in FF14 which you have not done btw to WOW LFR, then maybe you have some merit, but normal mode and hard mode WOW raiding is harder then FF14 raiding.

I also wonder since you refuse to do FF14 raiding have you done any WOW raiding at all or are you just full of hot air again.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

While what you wrote took a moment to understand, you missed the OP's point.

People were calling him an elitist. So he decided to more or less 'embrace' it. He doesn't really think he's 'elitist' ....but he also doesn't think MANY of the players being called such are actually elitist/behaving in such a way. His post was explaining how people get tired of constantly over-working on content to 'help' others only to have the very people they are trying to 'help' (stranger or otherwise), start name calling, or thinking that those who HAVE the experience are somehow in the wrong for not basically carrying the group or showing more patience than a saint.

Basically, it doesn't matter if you beat T13....if people know you've beaten Levi EX 100 times, they expect somehow that you, and you alone will be the sole reason they get their first clear. Or expect you to drop everything to 'help' them. Or start blaming you for not 'saving it' when the crap hits the fan and that happened because they drowned as soon as the ledges dropped. And many people who expect 'experienced in a specific battle' people to 'carry' them will then start using namecalling/shaming...specifically the word 'elitist' to basically shame them into helping.

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A lot of people in this thread really get it. My thanks to those of you for being patient enough to explain it to others.

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Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

It's a bit of an inside joke. OP is just embracing the elitist title given after some posts made in the past. For example:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Expectations)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Life-Lessons)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...er-iLevel-Gear

Unfortunately, or perhaps tellingly, the ones not aware of this just latch on to the word "elitist" and then things spiral out from there.

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Thanks for understanding this! Also, I thought the word "elitist" made a good hook. I'm a better writer than I am a player ;)

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

On a side note the OP is now in another post talking about how he bought his Titan EX clear... Kind of really adds a new perspective to the post when reading it. Anyways you guys have a good day. Time to go home and play dem gamessss.

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Thanks for quoting me out of context! I said in that same post that I learned that buying runs would not make me a good player and that I regretted ever buying my win. I also said I performed perfectly in my "carry" and that I just got frustrated because I couldn't find other good players. Taking the time to find like-minded and like-skilled players has made a bigger long-term difference.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Wrong, it tells you when things hit you. It tells you whats doing more damage to you, it tells you how much damage your rotation produces, it tells you overall healing output (in many games!)

Knowing how much damage is being done to you in fights isn't an advantage? Knowing when stuff hits you (because your pulling from a script! and reading packets!) isn't an advantage?

Sniffing the packets of other players isn't wrong to you?

It is a huge advantage, quit covering your eyes please.

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Its not telling you anything your chat log can't tell you or is not already displayed on the screen. And you aren't sniffing other players packets. You aren't hacking other people's pcs. You are only seeing data sent to you. And the only data that you can get from parsers that you can't get from reading your own screen that I'm aware of is individual dot damage since it is lumped together into a single # on screen (same deal with regeneration effects).

How much a monster hits you for? Really? It pops up in bold letters on screen and in chat. When my coil group wipes and we are at all confused, we very, very frequently review chat log to see what damage was dealt to whom and the timestamps with it to figure out what killed us.

Why the tank die? "Oh check at 8:22 guys, bahamut scored a crit auto attack between flare breaths and the adlo effect was listed after so the adlo was just late and an unlucky crit nail in the coffin" Mystery solved! All from you handy dandy chat log. True story. We did this ALL the time during progression.

The only advantage is if it does something beyond just recording log data (using incoming data to trigger a sound to call out moves automagically or other capabilities). The numbers themselves give you zero information not already available except for th aforementioned separation if dots and regeneration effects. Bare bones parsers are just glorified chat log recorders that break the ToS by poking at SE'S property (their files).