My Philosophy on Needing for Lower iLevel Gear

[Purrfectstorm]

I've seen a lot of posts about this on the forums and there was an issue tonight in PF about this also: Needing on gear that is of lower ilevel than what you have equipped.

Many people have a problem with it. This seems to stem from the idea that gear is just for fighting in and if you have something "better" that it is greedy to Need/Lot on the lower level gear. If you do then you are "depriving" other players of gear they "deserve."

I put these words in quotes because I obviously don't agree. The reason is pretty simple really: SE has made gear useful for other things than just improving your combat ability.

- Vanity. This is a legit endgame for some. I've seen people run dungeons 30-50 times for a piece of gear... for LOOKS. Isn't this the reason people farm ponies? Simply because they are cool to have? They don't do anything different/better from any other mount.

- Seals. I also think this is legit. Seals are needed for many important things (ventures, gear, mats, relic, Lucis tools, etc.) I think it's biased to assume that gear for combat (for you) is more important than these other purposes (for someone else).

- Desynthesis. I have GSM at 103. I'm trying to cap it before expansion. Farming gear is one of the few sources of skill-ups at this level. Again, this is an important endgame factor. Not only can I get skill-ups but sometimes items worth hundreds of thousands of gil.

Bottom line is unless you joined a PF group and explicitly asked for a certain piece of loot and it was agreed you could have it, then you don't have any more right to it than anyone else, regardless of the reason.

From SE's perspective, it is good that gear is multi-purpose because this creates more demand for gear and therefore more scarcity of that gear (and ultimately more running of content for that gear). Being able to Need on gear is a perk for those who play the job that gear is useful for. If you want a greater chance at a certain piece of gear, then you should play that job.

Please note, this is my own personal philosophy but the TLDR version is: you are owed nothing.

[Welsper59]

If we're talking lv50 content, it don't matter at all (unless agreed upon prior). If we're talking low lvl stuff, with some exception, there's no reason to take away from someone that would use it (if you know that person would use it for their class/job they're on).

[Alacran]

As some one who often joins DF as a dps i agree. There are many times i want a piece of tanking gear but if i did not que as a tank i have no right to claim it above some one who may want it for their own (and qued as the appropriate role) , what ever that use may be. The game as it stands offers many lateral gear options so what one may find in dungeons need not be the only item that there is for your level range.

[AskaRay]

If we're talking low lvl stuff, with some exception, there's no reason to take away from someone that would use it (if you know that person would use it for their class/job they're on).

But see, for example, if the Battlemage Robe FINALLY drops for me after months of looking for it, especially if I'm playing as one of my mages (which, besides blm, are all higher level), you bet your sweet bippy I'm going to need it.
I'll use it? Absolutely. Do I need it for leveling? No....but that doesn't mean I'm not going to use it. I have just as much right to it as someone else playing a mage class...

Honestly I tend to at least 'greed' everything, because I am a loot whore, and if I have something already and I see someone need it for leveling, I usually do pass it on, because hey. But one of my goals is to get full sets of all the sets I like....so... if I want it, I'll 'need' on it. Deal with it.

[Devils_Lawyer]

If you can need on it, do it.

If you can greed on it, do it

If you can pass on it, do it.

There is no wrong choices and anyone claiming otherwise is either butthurt cause they didnt get their precious item or just feels like putting down people for trying for a item they have a right to get as much as anyone else.

[Welsper59]

But see, for example, if the Battlemage Robe FINALLY drops for me after months of looking for it, especially if I'm playing as one of my mages (which, besides blm, are all higher level), you bet your sweet bippy I'm going to need it.
I'll use it? Absolutely. Do I need it for leveling? No....but that doesn't mean I'm not going to use it. I have just as much right to it as someone else playing a mage class...

Honestly I tend to at least 'greed' everything, because I am a loot whore, and if I have something already and I see someone need it for leveling, I usually do pass it on, because hey. But one of my goals is to get full sets of all the sets I like....so... if I want it, I'll 'need' on it. Deal with it.

Yeah, that's what I meant by the "exception" part. Same with the Shadow Bow and whatever else. I'd greed too, but I generally won't Need on something that a leveling player would use on the class/job they're on unless it's for vanity reasons (which the grand majority of equip drops are not lol).

[Teslo]

I think that people pervert the meaning of the word "Need" to suit their purposes and to make themselves feel like less of a douchebag when they Need on stuff. The simple fact is that if it's not an immediate upgrade to your current piece of gear, you should be hitting Greed.

"But I need to gain XXXX Grand Company Seals to buy the item for the next step in the Zodiac quest!" - Well, that's fine. There are plenty of ways to get GCS's. You don't NEED a dungeon drop to essentially VENDOR to the Quartermaster to gain the seals needed to get that item.

"But this is the last piece I need to complete my vanity look!" - Again, you don't actually NEED this. You WANT it. That's what the Greed button is there for. Things you WANT.

If you're having a hard time telling the difference between "Need" and "Want", you should probably go attend some more Kindegarten classes. Those kids'll straighten you out right quick.

[Set-Abominae]

If we're talking lv50 content, it don't matter at all (unless agreed upon prior). If we're talking low lvl stuff, with some exception, there's no reason to take away from someone that would use it (if you know that person would use it for their class/job they're on).

low lvl or high lvl doesn't matter the gear that drops in lower dungeons you will wear for exactly 5 mins before you upgrade so stop crying about it. its all glamour and seals, i always pass regardless cause i don't need either but the second someone demands they deserve it and we all have to pass or else, i will roll on everything in sight

I think that people pervert the meaning of the word "Need" to suit their purposes and to make themselves feel like less of a douchebag when they Need on stuff. The simple fact is that if it's not an immediate upgrade to your current piece of gear, you should be hitting Greed.

"But I need to gain XXXX Grand Company Seals to buy the item for the next step in the Zodiac quest!" - Well, that's fine. There are plenty of ways to get GCS's. You don't NEED a dungeon drop to essentially VENDOR to the Quartermaster to gain the seals needed to get that item.

"But this is the last piece I need to complete my vanity look!" - Again, you don't actually NEED this. You WANT it. That's what the Greed button is there for. Things you WANT.

If you're having a hard time telling the difference between "Need" and "Want", you should probably go attend some more Kindegarten classes. Those kids'll straighten you out right quick.

justification doesnt matter matter the only way your candy land version of lot rolls will work is if everyone in the whole world did it otherwise greed will win nothing, if theres some gear you NEED so badly you have to make people not greed it you should have come on the class you NEED it for

[Purrfectstorm]

I think that people pervert the meaning of the word "Need" to suit their purposes and to make themselves feel like less of a douchebag when they Need on stuff. The simple fact is that if it's not an immediate upgrade to your current piece of gear, you should be hitting Greed.

"But I need to gain XXXX Grand Company Seals to buy the item for the next step in the Zodiac quest!" - Well, that's fine. There are plenty of ways to get GCS's. You don't NEED a dungeon drop to essentially VENDOR to the Quartermaster to gain the seals needed to get that item.

"But this is the last piece I need to complete my vanity look!" - Again, you don't actually NEED this. You WANT it. That's what the Greed button is there for. Things you WANT.

If you're having a hard time telling the difference between "Need" and "Want", you should probably go attend some more Kindegarten classes. Those kids'll straighten you out right quick.

LOL

By the same logic, you don't NEED to upgrade your gear (and if you do, perhaps you should have actually queued as that job). But I think you're missing the point that the Need/Greed system is designed to be fair. What can be more fair then getting priority on gear appropriate to the job you're playing and having an equal chance to roll on it? Now what's unfair is telling someone they shouldn't be able to roll at all.

What's funny is people will want tanks to pass on tank gear even though they didn't actually queue as a tank and then complain about how long it takes to get a party together neglecting that a) they could've queued as a tank themselves and b) if tanks don't have priority on tank gear, they are less incentivized to run the content. Now you could say that you don't want to play a tank because you like some other class better and that's fair but if you like the other class better, why do you expect to get passed tank gear for a job you're not playing? And then your argument is that you "need" it? Do you understand why I LOL'ed now?

My point remains that it's completely subjective what constitutes "need" and SE is using a pretty reasonable system to sort things out. I think it's fine if other players specify different loot rules up front but to expect something different after a run or in DF is just silly.

[Dyne_Fellpool]

Yeah, I played EQ2 for 10 years and it was ALWAYS considered a dick move to Need on things that weren't a direct upgrade for you, stat-wise. It happened but very rarely and was super frowned upon. The community just understood that vanity/glamour/that game's version of desynth did not constitute "Need" the way an actual stat upgrade did.

So it was definitely kind of a shock when everyone needed on everything they could in this game. It was frustrating and I definitely saw it as a VERY dick move at first. But eventually I just decided to go with the flow... "when in Rome" and such. I still prefer the other philosophy but really I suppose neither is inherently right or wrong, its one of those things that ends up being dictated by the community.