The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

Footnote: Apparently people with open party finder ads for "Learning group" for 3+ hours on some of the most active servers in the game and shouting in Mor Dhona aren't trying to put themselves out there to find people. At all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krr

If you don't want politics brought into the game or the thread, it's worth noting that statements on human nature are inherently political and have been the hotly contested subjects of philosophy, economics, and science alike all trying to influence the outcome of society and culture for generations before either of us were born.

Jussayin'.

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I got banned for "discriminating against a group of people", it's a friendly warning to NyarukoW to watch what he says.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I got banned for "discriminating against a group of people", it's a friendly warning to NyarukoW to watch what he says.

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That's a very threatening way of saying "don't say things I disagree with."

Thank you for being upfront about your dishonesty in the situation of bringing up politics in the thread, however. Obviously, you don't care about political statements on the forums or in our community that don't disagree with your own agenda.

It's a very friendly way of saying, "don't say stupid things that attack any group of people, good or bad". But you can read it the way you want not like you'd read it any other way.

However, let's end this here. You and I will never agree on this and probably don't want this thread locked.

Regardless of your intent, attempting to publicize moderator decisions as a tool to influence what is or isn't said on the boards is, to my understanding, more harshly against the rules of the ToS than asking someone not to use misogynist statements and slurs, and considered extremely poor form that is essentially purposeful derailment.

It can easily be perceived as a threat, which is the fault of your writing, not my interpretation. As other people quoted in this thread, "Never give anyone the benefit of the doubt." It's your responsibility to write content that can't be perceived as discriminatory or threatening to others.

I don't care if the thread is or isn't locked. Nothing relevant has been added to the topic in over 5 pages that hasn't already been said.

Finally, if you think what somebody has written is inappropriate conduct on the forums, you may use the silent "report" feature and move on. The moderators very frequently do silent cleanup on threads for a reason and only speak when major changes to a discussion are made - because talking openly about administrative action on the forums is considered inappropriate.

Our thread of discussion for the past page will likely be cleaned up and deleted long before a lock occurs anyway. Both of us know this, being familiar with the moderator process on these boards.

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Originally Posted by Aana

...
Gordon: "but you're just 1 man."
Batman: "Now we're two"
..

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Guess what, both Batman and Gordon will gladly invite anyone that are honestly looking to help into their circle. They have an outlook that look to be inclusive, they even bent over backwards to protect a flawed character like Harvey Dent. Batman even gladly picks up the noob Robin John Blake.

But here in Eorzea, you have people looking to exclude people. They even have been as shameless as asking for the "no newbies wanted" checkbox on the PF. Bottom line there is this catch-22: how do you form connections with people that do NOT even want to give you the time of day? And stuff like SCoB, if the average player need 50 wipes to learn T7, and a quick learned needs 25, they will never even get the chance to do the reps to learn and show what they can do to contribute or make connections.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aana

..
The idea that endgamers are somehow restricting access is, bluntly, wrong. too obvious
...

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That is actually a fact that is very easy to see and very obvious. If they are nice about they all say they don't have the time, which you really can't fault them for too much, but I would encourage them make some time once in a while. If they are mean about it, they come call everyone else names, saying things like lazy, or do not take initiative, don't learn, don't listen, spoonfed etc. or worse, all of which is blatantly false for the vast majority of players. You only need to look in this thread to see all that false accusations. And it is well known that there are many FC's, not even statics, that insist on T9 clears. And then you have the clear sellers who are deliberately looking to proudly exploit the newer players and newbies while treating them with contempt and disdain.

Seriously? There isn't some conspiracy to exclude people. Your argument gets more ridiculous by the day. At this point it's turning into a discriminatory rant against a segment of the community you have personal issue with. Regardless if you're opinion is based on fact or fiction the way you're acting is quickly becoming offensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Seriously? There isn't some conspiracy to exclude people. Your argument gets more ridiculous by the day.

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I already said there is NO conspiracy, and there none required either. These are facts plain as day to see. People that don't want to help all say they don't have time at the very least. The PF is full of this stuff about clear experience require, no newbies wanted, sell clears, etc. Have to be blind not to see a signal as clear as that.

You don't have facts. You keep rewriting the narrative to fit your inane scenario regardless what anyone tries tell you. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You don't have facts. ... Just stop.

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The facts never belonged to me in the first place, but facts are facts. What I observe and what the OP has observed and what many others have observed are facts and they are in agreement. If you don't like the facts, you do NOT get pretend it does NOT exist, and telling us to "just stop" so we can not exercise our freedom of speech to present simple things like the facts is a non starter.

If you want you can prove that a kinder gentler raiders exist by being more inclusive and open and look to take in newer players. And you can also try to prove that the kinder gentler raider are the more common than the ever present clear seller on the PF 24/7. But somehow that is not the reality.

NyarukoW is a professional troll, just ignore him.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

The facts never belonged to me in the first place, but facts are facts. What I observe and what the OP has observed and what many others have observed are facts and they are in agreement. If you don't like the facts, you do NOT get pretend it does NOT exist, and telling us to "just stop" so we can not exercise our freedom of speech to present simple things like the facts is a non starter.

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You have continuously ignored the observations of others that ran contrary to you yet you expect it of us in return. You have failed to be reasonable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

If you want you can prove that a kinder gentler raiders exist by being more inclusive and open and look to take in newer players. And you can also try to prove that the kinder gentler raider are the more common than the ever present clear seller on the PF 24/7. But somehow that is not the reality.

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The reality is you don't know me or what I do. I know I don't fit your stereotype, but you'll rewrite any sentence and ignore any word spoken by anyone but yourself to rewrite me into some run selling all exclusive raider. You're offensive. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

If you want you can prove that a kinder gentler raiders exist by being more inclusive and open and look to take in newer players.

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If you believe that kind, gentle raiders do *not* exist makes you naive. Just because it isn't the majority, doesn't mean they aren't there.

http://i.imgur.com/vwXJFVh.jpg

Here's the real deal, speaking as someone who has given A LOT of non-clear people a chance to sub in for my static, as we have been perpetually missing one DPS for about 3 months.

In the beginning, I was willing to let just about anyone who could type in full sentences into the group, as long as they could take direction. I gave pretty much everyone a chance. This led to hours per week or wiping because people were A. Not as good as they thought, B. Not as good as they said, or C. Totally non-committal to learning.

This was unacceptable because my raid group has 6 hours a week to raid, and we already spent the time learning the fights. We were down to actually doing new stuff for about 2 hours per week.

Next, I would allow people in with experience on at least 1/2 of the fight. Hey, they learned that much PUGing, they can probably learn the rest in a few wipes. Nope. A lot of the same issues: not correcting their mistakes, not paying attention to mechanics, not understanding what to do. Again, hours were wasted.

This was unacceptable because of the same reasons. My static members were getting frustrated, I was getting frustrated. I tried to be kind and patient but the PUGs, by and large, were unrepentant, quiet, and unskilled. I'll stop here to say that we did find some really good players PUGing, mostly people that had missed their statics. I'd say about 5% of the PUGs we got that weren't already in a static that they had missed were acceptable. Those people are now in my static. I'd say our success rate for PUGs was roughly 20% overall.

That 20% success rate has conditioned me to reject people that send me a tell saying, "I watched the vid, so I know the fight," or people that say, "haven't ever been in, and don't have teamspeak, but I'm a fast learner!" I have 2 hours to clear my fights for the night, if I have to spend an hour teaching you something and letting you get used to it, you have just taken 50% of the raid time away from 7 other people.

Anyways - Next, I only allowed players with experience on the full fight, "I've been to 5%" was an acceptable answer. This dramatically increased our clear success rate. We got NUMEROUS people their first T6 7 and 8 clears. This is acceptable, and is currently what I allow.

Here is the deal - most "elitist raiders" have put in the hours to learn these fights already. Because of that, my motivation to go back to the phases of fights that I have been in dozens of times while learning myself and helping my static members learn is unbelievably low. I set aside time each week to raid on a progression basis; it is for ME. That is my time to play the game I like in a fashion that I enjoy.

Would I be better off if I took time out specifically to teach people the fights and get them a clear? With the amount of time I play, and most of my fellow raiders play, almost definitely not. The chances that after I help you learn and clear a fight that you will come help my group clear the next fight, or fill in for us another night are extremely low. Especially getting a proportionate amount of benefit from you knowing that fight to the time we lost teaching you.

I'll tell you what, I will teach you all of SCoB up to Divebombs in T9 (because that's where my group is), if you sign a contract saying that you will be available to fill in for my group 40% of the time if I need you to be there, no guarantees on slots. I will e-mail you your "on-call" schedule at the beginning of every month.

You have to understand, teaching someone SCoB is frustrating. Its hard work, and it feels like walking through quicksand. Think about if I asked you to help me craft some items. If that takes 5 minutes I'm very sure that you would jump to it and help me out, maybe even for no cost and you wouldn't charge me for mats! Thanks man. Oh yeah, I need TWELVE TIMES this many items!


You don't have time to craft something trivial for an hour for me? You. Elitist. Scum.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

... me into some run selling all exclusive raider. ....

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I've never said that about you. You wrote that up yourself, and then you go on about you false self-indignation about it all. Way to make up a strawman and then beat on it.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

.... Just because it isn't the majority..

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Why settle for it being less than the majority. Why can't we encourage people to try to make that the norm? It is probably wishful thinking, but that why I advocate the position I take and why I am trying to ask for people to be more inclusive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Here is the deal - most "elitist raiders" have put in the hours to learn these fights already. ...

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But there is no need to be "elitist" about it. If you don't have the time you don't have the time. But it would nice if you can make time once in a while and definitely don't hate the newer players or call them names.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

A. Not as good as they thought, B. Not as good as they said,

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Look this is going to happen, because people can't know what they do not know. They can have confidence, but even with that they'd still need 25 wipes or more to practice it to the point where they are 99% flawless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I'll tell you what, I will teach you all of SCoB up to Divebombs in T9 (because that's where my group is), if you sign a contract saying that you will be available to fill in for my group 40% of the time if I need you to be there, no guarantees on slots. I will e-mail you your "on-call" schedule at the beginning of every month.

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If you really follow thru on something like that, that is already a big step forward that those that just blame people for not trying, not taking initive, or calling people names over and over. People are not asking to be spoonfed, they are looking for a group and opportunity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

You have to understand, teaching someone SCoB is frustrating. Its hard work, and it feels like walking through quicksand.

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I fully understand that. It is a real pain trying to get people commit to a schedule. I've got people telling me setting a schedule is being elitist which nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Think about if I asked you to help me craft some items. If that takes 5 minutes I'm very sure that you would jump to it and help me out, maybe even for no cost and you wouldn't charge me for mats! Thanks man. Oh yeah, I need TWELVE TIMES this many items!

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I'd tell them we need to schedule a time to do that, and I'd help them craft. I got all my crafting at 50 but not all at 3 stars yet, but I've helped people with crafting and I've gotten help from other crafters too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

You don't have time to craft something trivial for an hour for me? You. Elitist. Scum.

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I don't think you needed to do this calling some made up crafter names and play that false indignation card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Why settle for it being less than the majority. Why can't we encourage people to try to make that the norm? It is probably wishful thinking, but that why I advocate the position I take and why I am trying to ask for people to be more inclusive.

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The thing is you don't know how inclusive most people are. You just base your stances on anecdotal evidences (yours included) and then label people as being exclusive. Most people will help newcomers but the thing is that most people don't want to only help people all the time. Sometimes, they want time for themselves and that's the thing you're not getting. From your point of view, if someone doesn't want to help someone else no matter the reason, they are being exclusive and bad and whatever label you want to put on them. You just look at the whole situation from one point of view without even bothering to look at perspective from the other side.

NyarukoW, become a skilled raider that can push server first, then spend the entire day doing nothing but joining PF learning parties. Practice what you preach.

Or stop preaching.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

... Sometimes, they want time for themselves and that's the thing you're not getting.

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I know this, because this is both the default and obvious fact. I didn't think I need acknowledge such baseline obvious fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwill

...
if someone doesn't want to help someone else no matter the reason, they are being exclusive and bad ....

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If they can not or do not want to help, the least they can do is do nothing. That should be the easy default. The problem is, there are those who will deliberately choose to do less than nothing, that is when they are being "being exclusive and bad". The most obvious example are the 24/7 advertising from clear sellers who obviously has the time to sit their and spam adverts but will not help. They may be a minority but they sure are loud and unavoidable. Like wise there are others who make the effort to come here and tell people like the OP to shut up and quit whining, and then call them all sorts of names. Why put efforts to demoralize people already being frustrated? That is kicking people when they are down and that is not right.

Hardcore raids are tough for casual raiders. This thread is so full of genius it hurts.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

....then spend the entire day doing nothing but joining PF learning parties. Practice what you preach.

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You are real good at distorting a simple request to be more inclusive and take it to a nonsensical extreme. Where in any of my posts have I ever asked experienced raider to do nothing but learning PFs all day 24/7? I do practice what I preach. I help when I can.

Even if exclusion isn't the intended idea: What do you think the folk think of when they see the pf full of such messages for even earlier runs than scob?

I don't think waiting for the next patch is becoming an appropriate solution, if people are still stuck and the prospects are still bad to the point of making df a crapshoot. Should people just not play? What point is the df if the only reasonable way to clear is to not use its intended function?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I know this, because this is both the default and obvious fact. I didn't think I need acknowledge such baseline obvious fact.



If they can not or do not want to help, the least they can do is do nothing. That should be the easy default. The problem is, there are those who will deliberately choose to do less than nothing, that is when they are being "being exclusive and bad". The most obvious example are the 24/7 advertising from clear sellers who obviously has the time to sit their and spam adverts but will not help. They may be a minority but they sure are loud and unavoidable. Like wise there are others who make the effort to come here and tell people like the OP to shut up and quit whining, and then call them all sorts of names. Why put efforts to demoralize people already being frustrated? That is kicking people when they are down and that is not right.

---

You know this but then why do you willfully ignore it then and just choose to view things from one side only ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwill

but the thing is that most people don't want to only help people all the time.

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This type of idea would have wrecked FFXI from the get go. You would not have lasted 3 months without helping others every single day in that game.

This community is not like the community FFXI had. We were forced to help each other, and forced to be friendly, or we didn't get ANYWHERE.

I thought most of you you would have known this, and would have brought that kindness to this game. I was wrong.

I like this game, but the separation of community over one damn event in this game, is a problem nobody here has the answers for.

All people in these 25 pages want to do is talk over each other. This accomplishes nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwill

You know this but then why do you willfully ignore it then and just choose to view things from one side only ?

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I don't ignore it. But I can't let people spew hatred and contempt at newer players unchecked. You look in this thread, not mention many others, there is way to much unjustified abuse of newer players and newbies. Many of the players probably never look at the forums don't even know about all this, but they are the silent majority being unfairly abused.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polyhedral

This type of idea would have wrecked FFXI from the get go. You would not have lasted 3 months without helping others every single day in that game.

This community is not like the community FFXI had. We were forced to help each other, and forced to be friendly, or we didn't get ANYWHERE.

I thought most of you you would have known this, and would have brought that kindness to this game. I was wrong.

I like this game, but the separation of community over one damn event in this game, is a problem nobody here has the answers for.

All people in these 25 pages want to do is talk over each other. This accomplishes nothing.

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Way to hyperbole. There is a gigantic difference between helping sometime and helping all the time. And just a reminder, there were A LOT of unfriendly people that were successful in the game and you know why, there were this things called Linkshells, that would let you do stuff with a certain group of people!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I don't ignore it. But I can't let people spew hatred and contempt at newer players unchecked. You look in this thread, not mention many others, there is way to much unjustified abuse of newer players and newbies. Many of the players probably never look at the forums don't even know about all this, but they are the silent majority being unfairly abused.

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You are ignoring it, it's literally one of the reasons why you think new players are "Oh so persecuted".

Yeah, once you leveled up all your jobs with 5 other people, which only took a few years for most people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polyhedral

Yeah, once you leveled up all your jobs with 5 other people, which only took a few years for most people.

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Again, huge hyperbole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

But there is no need to be "elitist" about it. If you don't have the time you don't have the time. But it would nice if you can make time once in a while and definitely don't hate the newer players or call them names...

---

I am just going to make a couple of counter points because I really don't want to engage with you.

- The only time I would ever call a new player a name is if they told me they knew the fight, and they didn't. The name would be "liar."

- What does casual_01 do for me that I should be motivated to make time to help them? I am freakin' struggling to play enough to cap my tomes and do my own raiding, I am assuming a lot of others are in the same boat.

- You are saying, "Look, these things will happen, they just need time!" Yeah, I know, and I don't have that time to give.

- To get an opportunity for a group you need to slog through some crap first. Very few people have the talent or luck to go straight from college to a high-paying job. Usually you need an unpaid internship, a low level position, contract work, etc to get experience. Its the same thing here. Raiding is extreme gaming, you have to take it seriously to participate in a meaningful way.

- I was being ironic with my elitist crafter comment. Also, if you have time to schedule time to craft something for someone for an hour, you have more time than me. Would you respond to this PF?:

GSM learning party. Need 1 player to craft me all leve supplies for 46-50. I will pay for mats - Monday @ 7:00 CST.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polyhedral

This community is not like the community FFXI had. We were forced to help each other, and forced to be friendly, or we didn't get ANYWHERE.

---

Sky/Sea/HNM Wars, Beast Master trains to kill people (until patched), parties coming into other parties exp camps and taking over, competing with other LS to claim certain NMs, excluding players who weren't geared enough or didn't have the right subjob from joining content. Yeah, FFXI forced people you be so friendly, how could I forget.

FFXI was no different than this game in that your FC always tends to come first. I try my best to help everybody but if I have to choose between random people I don't know and my FC friends then I am probably going to help my FC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Sky/Sea/HNM Wars, Beast Master trains to kill people (until patched), parties coming into other parties exp camps and taking over, competing with other LS to claim certain NMs, excluding players who weren't geared enough from joining content. Yeah, FFXI forced people you be so friendly, how could I forget.

FFXI was no different than this game in that, your FC always tends to come first. I try my best to help everybody but if I have to choose between random people I don't know and my FC then I am probably going to help my FC.

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You still needed rep on your server, or you never would see experience outside of solo'ing content. Most of those MPK'ers, got banned as well. You know this.

Do you have a solution that doesn't involve assuming things of others? That was my point which you read over like I didn't have one at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

.... Need 1 player to craft me all leve supplies for 46-50. I will pay for mats - Monday @ 7:00 CST.

---

Funny thing is I've done this kind of stuff already, more than once too. Sometime I only craft half the stuff because I don't got the full hour, but I can spare 30 minutes. I don't see crafters put up PF saying no newbies wanted ever. I've even seen people get mad at me for trying to help because they were clueless that Cashmere whatevers were 3 stars, and they were asking for only level 50 weavers, and I didn't crack 3 stars back then and did not have my artisan tool. And you see that is attitude of players taking others for granted, that the root of the "no newbies wanted" mentality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

.
- To get an opportunity for a group you need to slog through some crap first. Very few people have the talent or luck to go straight from college to a high-paying job. Usually you need an unpaid internship, a low level position, contract work, etc to get experience. Its the same thing here. Raiding is extreme gaming, you have to take it seriously to participate in a meaningful way.

---

The OP and may others know this. People are not asking to be spoonfed. They are asking to get an opportunity to learn and progress. If people were more inclusive things will work out better for everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I don't ignore it. But I can't let people spew hatred and contempt at newer players unchecked.

---

No but I guess you're hatred and contempt for raiders is ok though? You're spewing plenty of that all over the place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

No but I guess you're hatred and contempt for raiders is ok though?

---

But I don't hate the raiders. It think this much should be obvious. I hate clear sellers and their RMT bot friends who are likely in collusion with them but I there is no way I can come up with and evidence for that. And I don't like people who hatred and contempt at newer players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

But I don't hate the raiders. It think this much should be obvious.

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No. It's not obvious. There's a whole crap load of posts here that make it far more obvious that you do hate raiders. You seem to think all of them have hatred and contempt for new players. I'm tired for your generalizations. You're far worse than the worst raiders I've ever seen. This thread has made that crystal clear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polyhedral

You still needed rep on your server, or you never would see experience outside of solo'ing content. Most of those MPK'ers, got banned as well. You know this.

Do you have a solution that doesn't involve assuming things of others? That was my point which you read over like I didn't have one at all.

---

I don't know, you must of been playing a different game than I was because all you needed to join an endgame ls was time, gear, and jobs leveled. Go to their website, submit an application, wait for a tell in game, spend 2-4 weeks as a trial member of the ls getting no loot and as long as you showed up for shit you got rewarded. There were plenty of scum LS who frequently botted, didn't give a shit about rep, and would take anybody that could meet their scheduled time requirements.

I also know plenty of griefers that never got banned, way more people got banned for salvage duping than griefing. I can't even count the number of times my LS was griefed during Sky/Sea/HNM and none of those people ever got banned, 24 hour suspension at best and only if they said they were doing something intentionally in chat.

No, I don't have a solution because I'm not part of the problem, I help people I know all the time and I've never cussed out any newbies. At the end of the day, you can't tell people what to do and how to play, they will do what they want.

You specifically stated FFXI forced people to be friendly, I chose to reply to that because I think it's false. I ignored your point because your post was untrue, insulting to the ffxiv community and also accomplished nothing in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwill

...
You are ignoring it, it's literally one of the reasons why you think new players are "Oh so persecuted".

---

There is a fundamental distrust among players that the game has fostered through its approach to content. In xi, I didn't have to deal with the drill sargeant,I could join a different linkshell and still do endgame activitIES.

Here, it is 1 activity, and a growing part of content that is walled off by a combination of player expectations, jumping ship, and team jump rope mechanics. Its setting people against each other as there is story, requirement, and loot behind it. And it has continued to render FCs and LSes unable to assist, except by conforming to the lockout. Meanwhile, clears are sold, videos and prior clears are demanded, "The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer," and then comes content outside the raid catering only to the rich...

I'm not saying it is the fault of one group of players. I'm saying it is the combination of content development, and the responses of the populace that is causing this contention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

... that you do hate raiders.

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Tell you what, I do hate the Oakland Raiders and their lousy uncouth and hooligan fans burning down cities and starting riots. That is about the only Raider I hate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

.
You seem to think all of them have hatred and contempt for new players.

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Who is them? I've always said elite players are not necessarily elitist. Raiders are not all clear sellers. If you want to muddle things with the imprecise language you like to use, you are only confusing yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Tell you what, I do hate the Oakland Raiders and their lousy uncouth and hooligan fans burning down cities and starting riots. That is about the only Raider I hate.

---

I'll go talk to a mirror. It might be more productive than this farce. It will be less intransigent at least.

This all sounds very familiar.

NyarukoW: "20 is the minimum amount of flair. But we always encourage employees to be more inclusive by wearing more if they would like."
Raider: "I have 20 pieces of flair"
NyarukoW: "Yes, but if you want to be more inclusive with your flair we encourage that"
Raider: "20 pieces of flair is fine for me"
NyarukoW:"Look at Brian, he has 37 pieces of inclusive flair. We encourage that"
Raider: "Well that's great for Brian but the 20 flair is enough for me"
NyarukoW: "I hope you'll reconsider. We want our employees to be inclusive through their display of flair"
Raider: yeah I get it. You like to show more inclusiveness with more flair but I'm really fine with just 20.
NyarukoW: "of course, we understand you are wearing the approved amount of flair but I'd just like to reiterate bow important it is to show our customers how inclusive we are here by wearing more flair, but of course how much is up to you."
Raider: "you are obviously not goin to accept that i want to wear less flair but i am wearing the required amount of flair. If you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair then make the damn minimum 37 pieces of flair!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aana

Snip

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Not to nitpick, but wouldn't the inclusive flair be what the raider is asking out of others?