MAGE STRIKE

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Originally Posted by ChelseaPride

lol, this shit is still going? Simple... adapt or quit... that goes for all classes.

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+1 for sure.

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Healers should have their own class with their own mechanics that are attention grabbing enough without upsetting the balance of the entire game.

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They have, they always had, Conjurer.

I'll accept other point stated by OP except the MP cost :P

The MP change is fine, but the role that was given is NOT FINE. but alas, until Jobs System arrive, Mages need to keep tight and wait again til Job System arrive and then you can have your dedicated Nuker mages ;0 i agree conjurer shouldn't be just drop down as a Healer only, they can do good damage dealer as well.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

I'll accept other point stated by OP except the MP cost :P

The MP change is fine, but the role that was given is NOT FINE. but alas, until Jobs System arrive, Mages need to keep tight and wait again til Job System arrive and then you can have your dedicated Nuker mages ;0 i agree conjurer shouldn't be just drop down as a Healer only, they can do good damage dealer as well.

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Your not going to get a dedicated Nuker when the job system comes out. Con WILL get WHM and and THM will be some kind of Debuffer. That's how it will be.

When SE finally admits that each class will have two jobs CON WILL get BLM and it will, as it is now, continue to be a power nuker. There is a reason Tier two nukes are 20 mp and do 300 Damage..

(not pointed at quoted poster)
If you currently playing CON as a WHM it is your own fault. You need to grow a pair and quit whining cause even when the job system does come out people are still going to ask CONs to heal.

did someone say MAGE STRIKE?!?!?


/crosses he line

yeah thats right, im a scab

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Despite the homogenized classes the armoury system created, each class still fit into a general archetype, except for the mages. GLD's are tanks, PUG, MRD, and LNC are melee DD, ARC is ranged DD, and CON/THM... well, are they ranged DD, healers, or buffers/debuffers? Whether originally intended or not, the answer is, all three. Which is honestly a balancing nightmare.

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If they feel that it's a nightmare I would rather them just cancel Conjurer and Thaumaturge and put in Black Mage and White Mage. It's true that they don't fit archetypes. Since they don't, they should give us the option of playing both, or cancel our classes and give us a choice of a replacement.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

They have, they always had, Conjurer.

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We were describing a class while taking all of its abilities into account, you have described a class taking one of it's abilities into account.

well its not enough to STRIKE, but the changes SE did went well past the 'challenging' and landed on the 'you made it less fun' category. Now i cant even heal a full party if things go bad without draining all my mp half way through =(

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

well its not enough to STRIKE, but the changes SE did went well past the 'challenging' and landed on the 'you made it less fun' category. Now i cant even heal a full party if things go bad without draining all my mp half way through =(

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I appreciate your comments. I want to know everyone's story.. let's see if people's stories and what the dev team wants for players long-term is matching up.

again, I want to see the real "challenge" (tougher boss, monster, quests)

nerfing player's character abilities is NOT a challenge or difficulty

if they want to make a game harder, they can buff the monster, not ruining gameplay

The changes are great. This adds some skill to the game. MP management is an actual thing now, instead of spamming cures for no reason.

They shouldn't have made heals that much in MP cost. If they cut it in half of what it is now, things might be a little easier. Spiritbind is useless because the minute you use it, you get enmity. Soughspeak never has done what it's supposed to. Silhoette and the CON one doesn't do anything. Pretty much ANY of the enmity moves does not work. I'm pissed because of the enmity problems. The Provokes and Taunts being used are almost useless. I might as well go all into vitality as I'm the one 'tanking' all the mobs.

And why did they make Siphon MP single target? >.> Not saying I can't deal with it, but the cost of spells and the cost of gaining ALL enmity isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by Buuul

The changes are great. This adds some skill to the game. MP management is an actual thing now, instead of spamming cures for no reason.

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there is only so much room for skill if a taunt+provoke+featherfoot barely generates more enmity than a emergency heal3 and im sure pple who did HNM in XI know about emergency cure IV heals...

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

there is only so much room for skill if a taunt+provoke+featherfoot barely generates more enmity than a emergency heal3

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Well I don't know about featherfoot being an enmity draw, but accomplice would solve that problem. (I assume you mean cure or sacrifice I've never heard of heal)

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Originally Posted by Raze

Well I don't know about featherfoot being an enmity draw, but accomplice would solve that problem. (I assume you mean cure or sacrifice I've never heard of heal)

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unless the patch changed featherfoot it was enmity alright. and yeah i mean cure and sacrifice but its a waste of space to type out both when i can round them 2 up in 4 letters: heal

So tired of the idiots with their ez mode crap, because they play the game so hard. No one wanted ez mode, and no one wanted an mp sink. You are a blantant fool if you think mp sink= strategy/difficulty/challenge. It just equals annoying and frustration. Mp cost are ridiculously high now compared to xi's, keep raises same mp, but some of these spells mp need to be decreased by 20-30 mp, not even that much. It really has nothing to do with the idiots "ez mode" they keep tooting like it makes them look cool.

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Originally Posted by Buuul

The changes are great. This adds some skill to the game. MP management is an actual thing now, instead of spamming cures for no reason.

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I'd appreciate if you took a second to actually read. No one has praised cure spam.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

And why did they make Siphon MP single target? >.> Not saying I can't deal with it, but the cost of spells and the cost of gaining ALL enmity isn't worth it.

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Probably because you could get full MP back in one cast, making soloing Dodore and the Goblin possible, among other things.

The main problem with enmity right now is regular mobs die so fast and don't hit hard enough that a tank is not really needed. Long term fights it works well.

No thanks. I like the changes. Makes mages less like Jesus and more like a playable class.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

No thanks. I like the changes. Makes mages less like Jesus and more like a playable class.

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Jesus couldn't throw fireballs.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Jesus couldn't throw fireballs.

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i bet i can find you 10 christians who would seriously claim he could....

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

i bet i can find you 10 christians who would seriously claim he could....

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lol ..

Jesus could throw fireballs before 1.18 nerf though...

And BTW Neptune I wanted to say that I know what do you mean with your points and, I know that some of them are right and I agree for the most part, Conjurer is my second highest class after all.

Buuut I really don't like the way you chose to protest, what's a mage strike supposed to mean?
If you want some of these things to change do some constrictive critisism, don't start the hate - "I will avenge you" threads.

I was 100% sure that Conjurer will become the dedicated healer of this game from day 1 and I thought it was weird that we could have 2 mages with the same roles in this game.
When we "the players" decided that we wanted more unique classes then it became 1000% clear that Con will be the main healer, I thought none was so naive to believe that THM will become the one for this job (Dark healer? Even the lore is against it).

So when the Jobs come out, one class will have one Job, Con is gonna be WHM 100%, I don't know about THM though, my guess is that he will be BLM (don tell me about the elemental nukes, I know).
The thing is that I dont think CON will ever be "or was meant to be" BLM, (I believe that his elemental nukes were wrongly placed on him from the start) so I think that if a genuine dedicated nuker comes in to play, it will be either a new mage class, or BLM when it will become available.

Asking the dev team to change CON to a nuker is like asking to make a game without a healer and they will never change this aspect I am sure of it.
It was a simple matter of having to choose between a healer and a nuker, we already have DDs but no healers, so what was the one that had to go? (although nukes are not gone you can still nuke on CON as long as another CON takes care of healing).
The only thing possible to change right now is the MP costs of the abilities and that's it.

It's good to ask stuff but some times you have to think if they are possible to implement at the curent stage or not and I believe that once things became like that, they are impossible to change even with a mage strike.
My 2 cents.

Some people say they're nerffing the mages... I say they're fixing them. They were pretty broken, many things still are, in both the overpower and the useless sense. I've no clue what they're going to do with us when the job system come out, the roles are a mess.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Probably because you could get full MP back in one cast, making soloing Dodore and the Goblin possible, among other things.

The main problem with enmity right now is regular mobs die so fast and don't hit hard enough that a tank is not really needed. Long term fights it works well.

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Well if you are fighting mobs at the appropriate level with a party... like doing behest, it's so easy to gain enmity from doing nothing or even getting it when you use a move to reduce enmity. They need to focus a LOT on enmity right now and some of it on the mp part. Reduce it by a little, not back to cure spam before

Mages Nerfed?! Where?! <.< Guys, i'm wondering if you are still playing ffxiv ... <.<

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Originally Posted by Meleena

Jesus could throw fireballs before 1.18 nerf though...

And BTW Neptune I wanted to say that I know what do you mean with your points and, I know that some of them are right and I agree for the most part, Conjurer is my second highest class after all.

Buuut I really don't like the way you chose to protest, what's a mage strike supposed to mean?
If you want some of these things to change do some constrictive critisism, don't start the hate - "I will avenge you" threads.

I was 100% sure that Conjurer will become the dedicated healer of this game from day 1 and I thought it was weird that we could have 2 mages with the same roles in this game.
When we "the players" decided that we wanted more unique classes then it became 1000% clear that Con will be the main healer, I thought none was so naive to believe that THM will become the one for this job (Dark healer? Even the lore is against it).

So when the Jobs come out, one class will have one Job, Con is gonna be WHM 100%, I don't know about THM though, my guess is that he will be BLM (don tell me about the elemental nukes, I know).
The thing is that I dont think CON will ever be "or was meant to be" BLM, (I believe that his elemental nukes were wrongly placed on him from the start) so I think that if a genuine dedicated nuker comes in to play, it will be either a new mage class, or BLM when it will become available.

Asking the dev team to change CON to a nuker is like asking to make a game without a healer and they will never change this aspect I am sure of it.
It was a simple matter of having to choose between a healer and a nuker, we already have DDs but no healers, so what was the one that had to go? (although nukes are not gone you can still nuke on CON as long as another CON takes care of healing).
The only thing possible to change right now is the MP costs of the abilities and that's it.

It's good to ask stuff but some times you have to think if they are possible to implement at the curent stage or not and I believe that once things became like that, they are impossible to change even with a mage strike.
My 2 cents.

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You raised some good questions.

What's a mage strike supposed to mean?

It's just to show that there is protest to the changes #1, which is shown by the amount of agreement with the OP. Which leads to..

What can the dev team do about it?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ritics-of-1.18

I don't support the OP at all, and sincerely hope that the devs do not act on it.

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Originally Posted by Zozor

I don't support the OP at all, and sincerely hope that the devs do not act on it.

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Can we get some more Marauders in here that not-support mages?

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Can we get some more Marauders in here that not-support mages?

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It's pretty funny, isn't it?

It they're not the designated tank (a Marauder tank?), I say let them fend for themselves. It's especially good for them if they like a challenge. :rolleyes:

Unless they're a friend, of course. :)

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

The same could be said for the way it was before. Before, CONs were expected to be a hybrid class. I was expected to nuke, but I didn't want to. I wanted to be a healer.

So, now, the tables are turned.

Maybe I'm biased. I play healers in all my MMOs. In FFXI I was a WHM. In WoW, I was a Holy Priest. In Aion, I was a Cleric. Being a party/raid healer is all I want to be.

Before, I never felt satisfied in my role. Now, I couldn't be happier with the direction that CON is going.

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Right, but wouldn't you have been HAPPIER if they released a healing only class?

I mean, your CON is only R25. It's not like you dedicated 9 months to it or anything. They could have left CON alone and opened up Prelate heal class. It would have suited your needs just find and not really cost ME anything, since I liked CON the way it was.

Your opinion (as you admit indirectly) is simply a selfish one. You like healing (and so do I) and now you have a more defined healer, but that doesn't really account for any of the countless other people who aren't you that don't feel like you do about CON specifically.

There is no need for a mage strike, just grab some mp boosting food and drinks if they have any, on that note rnak up cooking, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

They have, they always had, Conjurer.

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How can you even say this when up until last week THM was the best healer in the game?
THough CON wasn't obsolete. It was a close 2nd.

Now, there's no close 2nd. There's 1 healer and 1 "gimp as shit try hard as you might" Healer.

CON was never intended or designed to be the primary healer of XIV. No such thing existed.
Stop making shit up to progress your weak arguments, please.

Actually, I am ok with the nerf of mages especially thm. Before 1.18, thm is pretty much the only job u need in this game. I can solo/duo all NMs with 1 or 2 thm within 30mins(I can even kill and broke horn of the goat NM with 2 thm, using 42mins tho). As with the MP issue bring by 1.18, I think it a good point too. Try to think of ways to reduce ur mp cost, like using Sprigbind(I forgot the spelling) and dont spam cure when there is no need.

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

well its not enough to STRIKE, but the changes SE did went well past the 'challenging' and landed on the 'you made it less fun' category. Now i cant even heal a full party if things go bad without draining all my mp half way through =(

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And that's the real kicker, isn't it?

I love difficult content, but to take a job that was fun to play Wednesday and make it a boring snoozefest Thursday really is the issue at heart. I love the dungeons and I love healing. I don't like "Cure Cure Cure Rest" watch others play "Cure Cure Cure Rest." I really prefer "Cure DOT Nuke Cure Siphon DOT"

I'm doing just fine as main healer so the artificial "challenge" doesn't really bother me anywhere near as much as how bored I am playing a job I recently loved (in party play).

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Probably because you could get full MP back in one cast, making soloing Dodore and the Goblin possible, among other things.

The main problem with enmity right now is regular mobs die so fast and don't hit hard enough that a tank is not really needed. Long term fights it works well.

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Did you ever watch a THM solo those NMs?
There's at least 3 things I could think to do to ruin this for THM.

1) Emulate lasts less time than its recast (even 15 seconds may have been enough)
2) Make Goblins actually hit harder than 100 per hit. Honestly, their Range attack is rough, but their melee attacks even a baby could tank. Goblin NM is one of the easiest things I've ever done.
3) Make Dodore smarter (all fire off Shadowsear at once would end THM) or give them a better AI to move closer and decimate THM with melee attacks.

Honestly, they did 1 of these things. The NMs are still retardedly easy. The only thing that makes it hard is not having enough MP to heal a tank at them now - and that's such a sad, stupid way to make a game harder. Honestly, the NMs could have easily been tweaked to DESTROY a solo mage. They hit like little girls. You don't see many (though not impossible) THM solo Great Buffalo or Ureaus and there's a reason for that.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

Jesus could throw fireballs before 1.18 nerf though...

And BTW Neptune I wanted to say that I know what do you mean with your points and, I know that some of them are right and I agree for the most part, Conjurer is my second highest class after all.

Buuut I really don't like the way you chose to protest, what's a mage strike supposed to mean?
If you want some of these things to change do some constrictive critisism, don't start the hate - "I will avenge you" threads.

I was 100% sure that Conjurer will become the dedicated healer of this game from day 1 and I thought it was weird that we could have 2 mages with the same roles in this game.
When we "the players" decided that we wanted more unique classes then it became 1000% clear that Con will be the main healer, I thought none was so naive to believe that THM will become the one for this job (Dark healer? Even the lore is against it).

So when the Jobs come out, one class will have one Job, Con is gonna be WHM 100%, I don't know about THM though, my guess is that he will be BLM (don tell me about the elemental nukes, I know).
The thing is that I dont think CON will ever be "or was meant to be" BLM, (I believe that his elemental nukes were wrongly placed on him from the start) so I think that if a genuine dedicated nuker comes in to play, it will be either a new mage class, or BLM when it will become available.

Asking the dev team to change CON to a nuker is like asking to make a game without a healer and they will never change this aspect I am sure of it.
It was a simple matter of having to choose between a healer and a nuker, we already have DDs but no healers, so what was the one that had to go? (although nukes are not gone you can still nuke on CON as long as another CON takes care of healing).
The only thing possible to change right now is the MP costs of the abilities and that's it.

It's good to ask stuff but some times you have to think if they are possible to implement at the curent stage or not and I believe that once things became like that, they are impossible to change even with a mage strike.
My 2 cents.

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It sounds like you don't understand what a "strike" actually does.

When you feel you've been dealt a raw deal, or (in worker's strikes usually) unfair wages, you simply agree (as an organization) to stop doing the work. Now, this isn't realistically going to happen in the game and I'm sure Neptune knows that, but if every mage who is unhappy with the hand they've been dealt in 1.18, THMs and CON alike, stood up and told SE they are unhappy and considering dropping Mage altogether if not XIV, which I may - and that's not an idle ragequit, I'm literally not having fun now and why play what isn't fun? :/

Anyway, if a strike did happen it would be epic. Can you imagine XIV if every CON & THM stood up and said I'm not playing mage until this is better. I'm sure it would get better real fast. The entire game would cease to function. All these MRD in this thread would be pissed - maybe even *gasp* level a mage themselves!

That's all. It's really just symbolic in this case since we don't have a Mage Union and we can't expect everyone to feel the way we do on this issue since some just typically like playing WHM on a job that was never intended to be WHM cause they can't wait for WHM to be released in 2 months. *rolls eyes ever so slightly*

I love healing, but I can wait for WHM release. Give me back my CON. MAGE STRIKE 2011!

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Originally Posted by Zozor

I don't support the OP at all, and sincerely hope that the devs do not act on it.

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I don't support MRD being on the front line soaking up MP, so...

ARC Party, go! I choose you!

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How can you even say this when up until last week THM was the best healer in the game?
THough CON wasn't obsolete. It was a close 2nd.

Now, there's no close 2nd. There's 1 healer and 1 "gimp as shit try hard as you might" Healer.

CON was never intended or designed to be the primary healer of XIV. No such thing existed.
Stop making shit up to progress your weak arguments, please.

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Until last week the game was broken and needed fixing, THM was healer by accident, there are no dark elemental healers, only light. they fixed this now so yeah...
There is no need for close second healer, only one healer is needed, the right one, that's what simply happened.

I am not making shit up, it's how things are and how they were meant to be, Conjurer was intended to be a healer and we can see this now, the results prove me right even if you try to deny the truth.

Things right now are shaping into what they were meant to be from the start, get over it.

EDIT:
OH and Ive just read Neptune's propositions, they are not bad, but we might be thinking a bit ahead of our time here.
It just occured to me that the devs said that jobs will be more party play efficient.
Maybe that will mean that there will be a dedicated healer for parties and that's White Mage.
WHM might even use less MP to perform cures than CON does now.
So If WHM is needed in party situations then that must mean that CON will no longer be expected to main heal.
Can't someone build CON around elemental nukes then?
Just an idea.

mp mangament is where it is at :)

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I am not making shit up, it's how things are and how they were meant to be, Conjurer was intended to be a healer and we can see this now, the results prove me right even if you try to deny the truth.

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While they do have the only area cures now, lets not forget they have Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Aero, Stone, Flare, Freeze, Burst, Flood, Tornado, and Quake (granted ancient magic needs to be improved).

In my humble opinion, if you believe they were meant to "only" be healers, there are an abundance of skills in the Conjurer repertoire that would beg to disagree. Until SE does another update and takes those abilities away from Conjurer, I'm still under the belief that a Conjurer has the right to do either role and not be dictated by seemingly overwhelming perception that Conjurer is a healer and nothing but.