Please Remove The Time Limits On Current And Future Dungeons.

I think time limits in dungeons should be more flexible and dynamic at the very least. How about just showing the time remaining until speed bonus is gone but can be extended and you can still complete the dungeon at your leisure.

Have a set timer start at 15~20m and count down to 0, by doing [Objective A] you add 10 minutes onto the timer. You get the first boss and kill him for an additional 15 minutes on the timer. [Side Objective A] would be out of your way and could make you miss the speedrun but grant you an additional 15m and an extra chest at the end.

Something like that would make the timers much more meaningful. It worked in Dyanmis (even though you still got booted out after X time, but that was so you couldn't just farm coins forever)

It really isn't the time limit that's the problem, rather it's the way the dungeon is constructed. People would still rush through it, time limit or no. There needs to be more challenge to the regular dungeon battles.

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Originally Posted by Darkrose

I guess your standard of achievement and fulfilling moment in this game is quite low then. What is so challenging about training every mob on the way and get to the last boss? Do you know that any group can do that? I hardly find that any skillful because everyone is doing the same.

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Come back when you have a speedrun achievement for Batraal and tell me you didn't need a group that was above average.
The 15 minute run left little to no room for error.
Even the Ifrit speed run was even easier once everyone in the party had good sync.


And you don't even need to train all the mobs to beat it. You could go in, kill every essential mob in the Darkhold, and still have time to beat Batraal. This is easily 3-4 chests.

It's already easy enough to get a normal win. Why make it easier?

Which goes to my next point.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Players wouldnt be "Under performing" if they clear the dungeon, because clearing it, is WIN. To me Under performing is running through all the content just to kill the boss.

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When you're at work, and your boss gives you a deadline, do you turn it in a day later saying "but I finished it so I shouldn't be reprimanded even though it was late." ?

If you really need all that time to go through it because of wiping/etc, I doubt you can kill the boss.
If you're going through for exp killing every mob, you can still make it to Batraal.

(Also, you shouldn't be going there for EXP. There are FAR more viable places to exp.)

I had a speed run with a knock together group of semi decent players after 3 runs. It's really not that difficult.

For a second there I thought "My Thoughts" was a new dungeon I've never heard of.

My thoughts...make the instanced dungeons just like dynamis...set time at start and opportunities to get extensions, and increase the size of the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Thanos

completely over your head.. its cool

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I'm pretty sure it went completely over the heads of everyone except you.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Come back when you have a speedrun achievement for Batraal and tell me you didn't need a group that was above average.
The 15 minute run left little to no room for error.

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The point is that speedruns are not fun for most people. When you buy a new game and you play it for the first time, do you decide to rush through it as fast as possible? Improving on your time is a natural evolution after the content has been beat but it is not a suitable first goal, but rushing through content is exactly what DH encourages you to do. It doesn't even make any sense from a RP perspective. When an adventuring group sees enemies ahead in the tunnel, does it make more sense for them to fight them or to simply rush right through? The current DH is extremely unintuitive.

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When you're at work, and your boss gives you a deadline, do you turn it in a day later saying "but I finished it so I shouldn't be reprimanded even though it was late." ?

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Most likely the work assignment you got was actually quite easy, only very time consuming. Using analogies from work when discussing games is usually a bad idea anyway, as work is generally the opposite of what games try to be.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I believe time limits "work" on balancing casual and hardcore play, but I do not prefer it. I would like to see future dungeons with no time limit and have a Normal mode and a Heroic mode. In normal mode, the difficulty is moderately challenging, while the heroic mode would be very hard and requires a very skilled and well geared party.

As for gear, you could make (for example) a Templar's Falchion drop in normal mode, and have Templar's Falchion+1 drop in Heroic mode, having better stats than the original one. Some may or may not like that, but I would find it fun personally.

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I would like this, but for me i would like Normal Mode for 2-4 Members, and Hard Mode for 4-8 Members, and both with no time limit.

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Originally Posted by Razor

I think time limits in dungeons should be more flexible and dynamic at the very least. How about just showing the time remaining until speed bonus is gone but can be extended and you can still complete the dungeon at your leisure.

Have a set timer start at 15~20m and count down to 0, by doing [Objective A] you add 10 minutes onto the timer. You get the first boss and kill him for an additional 15 minutes on the timer. [Side Objective A] would be out of your way and could make you miss the speedrun but grant you an additional 15m and an extra chest at the end.

Something like that would make the timers much more meaningful. It worked in Dyanmis (even though you still got booted out after X time, but that was so you couldn't just farm coins forever)

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I really think the fact that there is a time limit would result in speed runs regardless of what it is. There would always be that GO GO GO, lets go, forget those, just run, do this, do that right quick, hurry,Skip That Cut Scene, if time limits exist. I like immersion, i want to feel like im in this dungeon and i dont have to rush, i can actually enjoy it, and explore every aspect of it.

I Dislike the idea of getting better loot just begause you cleared it quicker. When playing most games, wouldnt you get rewarded more for playing longer? for finding chests? figuring out secrets?. In these games the players who ran through it, didnt unlock everything, and didnt have the best weapons and gear because of it ala Final Fantasy Series.

I would prefer no loot bonuses, just Dungeons with Puzzles, traps, exploration, coffer keys, optional NM's, and structure with no time limit.

But if i had to choose a loot bonus, It would have to be something like Killing the optional NM grants a loot bonus, or opening all coffer chests, or even collecting specific items from mobs or something.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Come back when you have a speedrun achievement for Batraal and tell me you didn't need a group that was above average.
The 15 minute run left little to no room for error.
Even the Ifrit speed run was even easier once everyone in the party had good sync.


And you don't even need to train all the mobs to beat it. You could go in, kill every essential mob in the Darkhold, and still have time to beat Batraal. This is easily 3-4 chests.

It's already easy enough to get a normal win. Why make it easier?

Which goes to my next point.

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So its harder to ignore all content, and run through all the mobs?

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Originally Posted by Rau

When you're at work, and your boss gives you a deadline, do you turn it in a day later saying "but I finished it so I shouldn't be reprimanded even though it was late." ?

If you really need all that time to go through it because of wiping/etc, I doubt you can kill the boss.
If you're going through for exp killing every mob, you can still make it to Batraal.

(Also, you shouldn't be going there for EXP. There are FAR more viable places to exp.)

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LOL work is WORK, a game is something you go to , to unwind after work because its fun.

But to be fair ill use your analogy lol.

If i was at work and my boss told me to write up a paper and gave me a 5 day deadline, Why would i Rush through and hand in a 2 page paper in 1 day, when i can take my time, finding more imformation, to pefect it to hand in a 10 page paper for better results, and promotions?

Darkhold rush strategy = The Rushed 2 page paper lol.

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Originally Posted by Brainriot

For a second there I thought "My Thoughts" was a new dungeon I've never heard of.

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LMAO. MY THOUGHTS, the dungeon you play when you watch your character THINK! and you have to think better than someone else to clear it.

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Originally Posted by Allistar

My thoughts...make the instanced dungeons just like dynamis...set time at start and opportunities to get extensions, and increase the size of the dungeons.

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No Time Limits, time limits are so Dream Cast.

Im not a fan of timed dungeons or timed chests. In fact, all the content SE has done before Moogle Primal has been too constrictive and doesnt allow freedom, especially Ifrit. Ive never seen a more robotic and boring boss fight in my life than Ifrit. People are always talking about class ballance being the issue. Its not, the issue is that you cant do any truly different strats. If you had multiple ways of beating various content, then it would be more fun because of more flexibility, and you could simply choose the strat that worked best for your party set up. Instead of fitting your party set up for the one and only strategy. Ifrit being the worst offender. Moogle Primal got it right in terms of flexibility, and fun.

So first off to Fix DH, gt rid of the timers and timed chests, its less about challenge and more about patting yourself and your group on the back for having the best party set up. Second, there needs to be about 4 different strats for beating DH bosses (ex: straigh tank, kiting, disabling ghosts, kiling ghosts and bat eyes, a group of sub bosses that lowers Ogre and Batraal's atk/def, etc etc). The idea here is variety, so that you can take whatever party set up you want. Lastly, so that people dont hang around in the dungeons forever, give the bosses (as someone else said) Rage Timers, and boot a party from dungeon after a full wipe. I would also suggest increasing difficulty of mobs

I still don't understand this concern about people just hanging around in dungeons too long if they remove the timer? It's not a problem in other games like WoW that are heavily instance based.

Of course, WoW has a 30 min /afk timer (game automatically logs you out if you are away for 30 minutes). So, nobody is ever just standing around for too long.