The cost of fracture is TOO DAMN HIGH!

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Congrats on getting an extra 320 potency over a course of a fight where you're dealing in excess of that with every GCD?

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

/facepalm

When an enemy jumps, the choice isn't between Fracture and doing NOTHING.

The reason that Fracture MAY be ideal when an enemy jumps is because you may end up losing your combo and Storm's Eye debuff no matter what you do. Although, it would still face the issue of delaying Wrath generation while tanking.

If you're off-tanking and going for maximum damage (no Storm's Path), then, sure, use Fracture. Just make sure you can suffer its TP cost.

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What?

for PLD Savage blade under combo is a potency of 200. So fracture is better.
Fast blade is a potency of 150, fracture is better.
For PLD the only thing not as good as fracture when an enemy jumps is rage of halone under combo. So unless you can pull off for sure a rage of halone before they jump, fracture is the choice move.

For WAR, fracture is better than every single "GCD" since fracture is 300 potency and butchers block is 280.

the only enemy i can think of off the top of my head where you'd lose all your wrath for using fracture is Twintania and even if you didnt use fracture and you ended on a combo i'm pretty sure it takes longer than 30s for the snakes to spawn to keep it up..

I dont know what game you guys are playing where fracture is so useless but i'm 100% certain in FFXIV ARR when the boss jumps you want as many dots on it as possible to deal the most damage.

Edit:

Am i saying fracture is an amazing skill? No.

What i am saying it can server a purpose. The fact that its only used to push an additional 20 potency dps from warrior and a only 'possible' 20 potency dps on PLD still is 20 dps. Could it be better, yes, could it cost only 60 tp, that would be great.

But in all seriousness there are other jobs, and skill that need more attention atm imo.

PLD's cover i have only found only of somewhat almost useful in brayflox... thats only in one dungeon, on two points, and only under speed run conditions.....

There are so many other skills that could be reworked.

Fracture is only a "viable" addition to your rotation as an off-tank, and only if you're not using Storm's Path.

Using "SE > (FR > SE > BB > SE > SE) x N" is about 2% more potency/GCD over "(SE > BB) x N," so long as you don't empty your TP.

If you are in charge of maintaining both SE and SP, you still gain an increase in your potency/GCD, but it can easily be negated, or turn into a DPS loss, when you factor in the effects of Storm's Eye falling off.

As a main tank, Fracture is next to worthless. If you're not using Storm's Eye, then you could throw in Fracture for more DPS, but that advantage is severely mitigated by slowing your Wrath generation.
It doesn't offer much DPS increase, it increases your TP consumption, it generates no bonus enmity, and it generates no Wrath. Sadly, it's really not worth a second thought as a main tank.

As for applying Fracture before an enemy jump, you have to consider what effect the downtime will have on maintaining Maim, Storm's Eye, and Storm's Path. If applying Fracture will get in the way of any of those, it's not worth it. Also, under Storm's Eye, Fracture in only a fraction of a point ahead of Butcher's Block in potency.

One of the first responses here mentioned how fracture is good in Leviathan due to phase changes, and I want to echo that. You absolutely should keep fracture on Leviathan if tanking as a War, because it continues to damage during periods of time where you cannot use weapon skills (during dives).

TP is never an issue for War in Leviathan unless you somehow have FAR too much skill speed. In fact TP is such a non-issue for War in Leviathan, that I use Sprint (yes, you heard me--I dump all my TP) anytime the elemental converter switch is on the non-tank side, in order to make a play for it (the more people trying to click the converter, the better, because things happen). There are so many periods of time where you are not using weapon skills in Leviathan, that TP regenerates perfectly fine.

What sometimes does cause a failure at Leviathan, is enrage due to just BARELY not enough dps....but ever since I started keeping fracture up, I haven't had an enrage, but I have had multiple clears, so although there are likely other factors in improved success, fracture has been one for me.

The argument that fracture slows down wrath generation *might* be legitimate for Leviathan, and probably is in other fights, but that assumes perfect wrath rotation, and I doubt most Wars are getting 100% perfect wrath management in Leviathan, because things happen. Sometimes you use that Inner Beast at a time where it might not be perfectly ideal for wrath-stacks-over-time, but IS what is needed to help healers, keep you alive, or help burst Wavetooth.

The other application of fracture that every War should be using in Leviathan, is on Spumes. Parties that do not DoT spumes often have trouble with that part of the fight, and it is a big help if the War lands a fracture on the near spume, and ALSO the spume at the other tank. Try it--you'll like it :) Again, part of the benefit here is damaging the mob while you are busy hitting something else, or running to avoid dives.

Keeping 3 fractures going--one on Leviathan, and 2 on spumes--is very easy to do, and I believe negates any loss that people might think you would suffer from losing a BB combo or SE. The potency of Fracture is higher than BB, so I do not think it's a far-fetched assumption on my part. No data to back up that loss of SE--someone might disprove me on spumes, but I doubt it because fracture does not replace SE on your spume--you can keep SE going also.

Again, TP is no trouble at all in Leviathan, even maintaining it on 2 spumes plus Leviathan, as well as using sprint if the converter switch is on the far side of the arena.

DEFINITELY keep fracture on Leviathan at all times if you are a War :)

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Fracture is only a "viable" addition to your rotation as an off-tank, and only if you're not using Storm's Path.

Using "SE > (FR > SE > BB > SE > SE) x N" is about 2% more potency/GCD over "(SE > BB) x N," so long as you don't empty your TP.

If you are in charge of maintaining both SE and SP, you still gain an increase in your potency/GCD, but it can easily be negated, or turn into a DPS loss, when you factor in the effects of Storm's Eye falling off.

As a main tank, Fracture is next to worthless. If you're not using Storm's Eye, then you could throw in Fracture for more DPS, but that advantage is severely mitigated by slowing your Wrath generation.
It doesn't offer much DPS increase, it increases your TP consumption, it generates no bonus enmity, and it generates no Wrath. Sadly, it's really not worth a second thought as a main tank.

As for applying Fracture before an enemy jump, you have to consider what effect the downtime will have on maintaining Maim, Storm's Eye, and Storm's Path. If applying Fracture will get in the way of any of those, it's not worth it. Also, under Storm's Eye, Fracture in only a fraction of a point ahead of Butcher's Block in potency.

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I understand all of this haha. I'm not saying it should be used in a rotation. That is a given. What i'm saying is using it just before a boss jumps. Use it before ifrit jumps for charges, before garuda leaves and calls her sisters or before she does minstrel shriek when she becomes invulnerable etc. Essentially placing a dot on the boss before they become invulnerable so they still receive damage even though youre unable to attack them. (This goes for Titan and Leviathan and other bosses etc.)

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Originally Posted by Satyagrahi

DEFINITELY keep fracture on Leviathan at all times if you are a War :)

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The only value in Fracture that anyone can claim *at all* is in using it before a boss disappears, when the loss of Wrath stack generation and buff/debuff uptime are a forgone conclusion anyways. Keeping it up at all times is just bad.

Also, if you try to keep Fracture up on 2 spumes as well as Levi, you're going to be losing GCDs to run time. You can't cross the gap from 1 spume to the other in less than a GCD.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

What i'm saying is using it just before a boss jumps.

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Which happens how many times per fight? Fracture is going to provide roughly 100 extra (raw) potency over your normal attack string on a per GCD basis. That means that, according to your "you should use it at this time" recommendations, you're getting an extra 100 potency that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise, once per jump, and only if it's a jump that prevents targeting rather than one that presages the boss going immune, like most of Garuda's, and half of Ifrit's.

How many jumps like this happen over the course of a fight? With Levi EX, depending upon DPS, you'll see between 2 and 7. With Titan EX, you'll see about 3-4 jumps. On Garuda EX, it'll happen about 4-5 times (once for first jump, once more for each add phase). On Ifrit, it's just straight up 3 times (when he jumps into Hellfire, he's immune to damage; it's when jumping into charges that he still takes damage).

At most, you're talking about 700 extra potency, but, on average, closer to 400. For a tank, that's about 400 damage. Unless you lose the fight by less than 1k damage, your "optimal Frac usage that you should always do" isn'y going to mean anything. Hell, if you lose by that much, I can pretty much guarantee you that you probably could have done any number of other different things (use of tank CDs can actually cause there to be a variance of several thousand potency over the course of a fight) with greater impact.

It doesn't matter how much you argue that there are *some* GCDs where it's better to use it than others, if the number of GCDs where that is true is in the single digits, your argument is pointless: if the event occurs so infrequently that it dilutes the value of it to the point where it is completely and totally unnoticeable (and, honestly, is going to have less impact upon your total performance than natural variation in damage due to the RNG will), whatever you're discussing is pointless beyond semantics.

There is no practical value in using Fracture, *whatsoever*. It's DPS neutral and mitigation-loss in normal use (thanks to uptime loss and Wrath stack prevention) and, in the conditions where it's a DPS increase because uptime and Wrath stack prevention are a foregone conclusion, said increase is so small that it might as well not be there.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Also, if you try to keep Fracture up on 2 spumes as well as Levi, you're going to be losing GCDs to run time. You can't cross the gap from 1 spume to the other in less than a GCD.

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Just to nitpick, this is only true if you're going lengthwise across the ship (from say NE spume to SE spume). You can tag opposite tank's spume within 1 GCD easily, it's just kind of pointless. I cross over between tail and head often as DRG to spread Phleb and CT without losing more than ~0.5s of a GCD at worst, and that distance is slightly longer than spume-to-spume.

In short;
Use Fracture when u feel like using fracture, it's fun and makes u feel like ur stealing damage.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

What?

for PLD...

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For PLD it's not 320, it's 220. And your normal combo that helps with your tanking averages 205. So for that 15 potency you're gaining over the course of 3 gcd...so 5 potency per...you're giving up one of the better crossclass skills for pld. Of course cure isn't the most useful thing for pld but I'd certainly prefer having that than something that boosts my per hit a measely 5 potency, in the best of scenarios.