Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Making niche races for the sake of being niche is not worth it when they could make something that more people will pay for, play as, and appreciate.

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So then why did SE make Hrothgar at all?

If I wanted to play as a male with huge muscles and all, I would be playing that instead of a woman. I would like female Hrothgar to represent feminine beauty, not femroe 2.0 or Abby FFXIV version.

As for your question as to why make Hrothgar at all? Who knows. It was the greatest miscalculation in the history of the game. Nothing had ever caused such unprecedented levels of chaos as when they went back to doing gender-locked races, especially with all the limitations they came saddled with.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If I wanted to play as a male with huge muscles and all, I would be playing that instead of a woman. I would like female Hrothgar to represent feminine beauty, not femroe 2.0 or Abby FFXIV version.

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Nothing you've said so far has even been a little bit convincing.

But if you want Miqo'te 2.0 who am I to say otherwise?

I just rather a design that - you know - makes sense?

But seeing as I'm not obsessed with traditional 'feminine beauty standards' - that's perhaps where we differ in perspective.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If I wanted to play as a male with huge muscles and all, I would be playing that instead of a woman. I would like female Hrothgar to represent feminine beauty, not femroe 2.0 or Abby FFXIV version.

As for your question as to why make Hrothgar at all? Who knows. It was the greatest miscalculation in the history of the game. Nothing had ever caused such unprecedented levels of chaos as when they went back to doing gender-locked races, especially with all the limitations they came saddled with.

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You literally have Viera for "feminine beauty" (as well as 5-6 other races) as an option, though. Say what you will about female Roegadyn, but they can be beautiful/feminine as well (beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

Hrothgar have a playerbase and there are people who will play and prefer a bestial female Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

You literally have Viera for "feminine beauty" (as well as 5-6 other races) as an option, though. Say what you will about female Roegadyn, but they can be beautiful/feminine as well (beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

Hrothgar have a playerbase and there are people who will play and prefer a bestial female Hrothgar.

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I genuinely don't get femroe hate as I also find them beautiful. But I am aware there's a reoccurring prejudice - especially irl - against women with a muscular figure.

I can only wonder why.

In any case sexual dimorphism actually does make sense for most species, especially when dealing with humanoids. Women should look different to men. That's kind of the whole point. If you want huge muscles and all then why not settle for male Hrothgar and we can save resources making something else?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If I wanted to play as a male with huge muscles and all, I would be playing that instead of a woman. I would like female Hrothgar to represent feminine beauty, not femroe 2.0 or Abby FFXIV version.

As for your question as to why make Hrothgar at all? Who knows. It was the greatest miscalculation in the history of the game. Nothing had ever caused such unprecedented levels of chaos as when they went back to doing gender-locked races, especially with all the limitations they came saddled with.

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Lol, seems nobody wants to say it or something. They made the Hrothgar to cater to the furry community which can be quite vocal and seem larger than it actually is. Best bet was to use an already existing popular beast race from the other FF titles, the Ronso.
Honestly, while I don't like how the Hrothgar turned out, mostly due to the hunch back posture, I enjoy seeing them around. They add a nice contrast to the rather homogeneous human like races.

I hope they look sorta like this, just with less bestial looking feet, I would totally fantasia into one.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f4/61...b9ecf48ab0.jpg

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I can only wonder why.

In any case sexual dimorphism actually does make sense for most species, especially when dealing with humanoids. Women should look different to men. That's kind of the whole point. If you want huge muscles and all then why not settle for male Hrothgar and we can save resources making something else?

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Because I think women can have muscles too? Muscles aren't an inherently masculine thing, Aveyond.

And when I imagine a Queen Lion, I imagine something radiating power and presence not daintiness and kawaii-ness like you seem to think.

It's one thing for a woman to be "toned" but it is another thing to have bulky muscles. It is perfectly fine for a slim female Hrothgar to have *muscle definition* but not femroe sized arms.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Muscles aren't an inherently masculine thing

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I'm sorry but. literally what. Muscles = men. This isn't something groundbreaking.

(double post ignore this one)

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It's one thing for a woman to be "toned" but it is another thing to have bulky muscles. It is perfectly fine for a slim female Hrothgar to have *muscle definition* but not femroe sized arms.

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They're literally based off of lions and large cats in general. Large felines tend to have a powerful figure. Both the males and the females.

Female lioness literally are the ones responsible for taking down superiorly-sized prey. They're meant to be powerful.

They're beastmen - not humans.

But seeing as you have an obvious prejudice against women with powerful figures, you're honestly not worth debating with. 'cause that's just lowkey ignorant.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'm sorry but. literally what. Muscles = men. This isn't something groundbreaking.

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I literally gave the most exasperated groan and eye-roll of my life reading that. Holy - wow.

Ok it's definitely starting to seem like you're more interested in pushing a...unique...ideological perspective on this sort of thing but I hate to break it you but this is just reality. If what you're really after is a huge hulking character then there is nothing stopping you from wearing a dress as male Hrothgar these days. More power to you.

Those of us who would rather not play as something that looks like that outnumber these "strong powerful figure!" fans and this kind of...attitude they seem to have whenever we point out the basics or just state an opinion really make me question whether such a crowd is worth catering to at all. I just want them to look nice. I want them to look like the concept art from the book or the fanart Setesh45 posted.

Starting to wonder if those ultimate raiders had a point about this sort of thing after all. Goodness knows I'd join their side of the argument if SE puts out something that misses the mark.

Just thought I'd share some numbers for fun. Looking at the 2020 census (I couldn't find the race breakdown on the 2021 census..maybe I'm blind? ), Elezen had 31,241 active players (11,165 F, 20,076 M). Hrothgar came in at 18,260 (obviously M only at this point). Roegadyn have 18,900 total (6,960 F & 11,940 M).

Now obviously these aren't official numbers, so take it with however big a grain of salt as you like. But IMO, what it does show is that Hrothgar, for all the complaints about it's style and nicheness, it seems to be holding it's own compared to Elezen and stomping on poor Roegadyn. It will be interesting to see numbers once the females are implemented as well.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Ok it's definitely starting to seem like you're more interested in pushing a...unique...ideological perspective on this sort of thing but I hate to break it you but this is just reality. If what you're really after is a huge hulking character then there is nothing stopping you from wearing a dress as male Hrothgar these days. More power to you.

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Literally at a lost for words at this point. Because your presumptions are wrong. Your ignorance is showing. And you offering me that genuinely garbage option does nothing.

And don't presume you're the one being 'realistic' here. Your arrogance is off the charts.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I can only wonder why.

In any case sexual dimorphism actually does make sense for most species, especially when dealing with humanoids. Women should look different to men. That's kind of the whole point. If you want huge muscles and all then why not settle for male Hrothgar and we can save resources making something else?

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What on earth is even with this take? I can’t even….


There is so much I want to say in response to this but I will keep it short. I find this viewpoint to be reprehensible.

I just don’t agree with your take, much less your stance on this.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

What on earth is even with this take? I can’t even….


There is so much I want to say in response to this but I will keep it short. I find this viewpoint to be reprehensible.

I just don’t agree with your take, much less your stance on this.

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I am confused as to what is "reprehensible" about the take that the women should look different than the men of a playable race.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I am confused as to what is "reprehensible" about the take that the women should look different than the men of a playable race.

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It’s not just about that. It’s all the other garbage you were spewing.

See, it's one thing to have a different, or even outright contrasting opinion, but when you start spilling bs like this, specially with such a condescending tone, there's no way you're not a troll

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Originally Posted by Allegor

See, it's one thing to have a different, or even outright contrasting opinion, but when you start spilling bs like this, specially with such a condescending tone, there's no way you're not a troll

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It’s either they’re a troll or they’re just not that great of a person. Either or.

Wasn't going to post here again, but speaking as an actual woman and not a guy playing a female toon... yikes to a lot of the takes in this thread. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

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...? No-one has been arguing against biology, honey. Dimorphism is absolutely a thing (and I won't even bother pointing out that in nature there are species where the females are larger), but as Hrothgar are based off big cats (lions), and both the males and females could easily rip nearly anything apart (again, as mentioned), you are the one remarkably out of touch with reality. Hrothgar were always a niche (read: not meant to cater to you), and that's fine. Not everything needs to appeal to everyone. I don't have a cat-girl alt because they bore me, but I have a Viera alt I brought through ShB, in addition to this Roe I usually play. The game already caters to the majority of players, so why does there need to be yet another generic "human with cat ears+tail"?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I am confused as to what is "reprehensible" about the take that the women should look different than the men of a playable race.

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Your blatant old-timey misogyny (oh noes, I went there!) in the entirety of your other posts, for one thing. Have you never seen a female athlete (soccer, tennis, hockey, deadlifter, etc) in your life, or do you honestly somehow not comprehend that women can, in fact, build muscle without the use of steroids? It just requires more effort and takes longer than it does for a man, for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Roda

https://i.imgur.com/C58zshl.png

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This is an excellent example of a character that still looks obviously female yet doesn't look like a completely different species. The fact that you're arguing against actual cohesion within the same species is very much a you problem.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

See, it's one thing to have a different, or even outright contrasting opinion, but when you start spilling bs like this, specially with such a condescending tone, there's no way you're not a troll

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Dunno. Considering there actually are people out there that think this way, well... I'm leaning towards this being the real deal.

Very well then. I appreciate the enthusiastic input but I still do not find anything wrong in the things I've said. Only time will tell in the end. If they make something that looks good I'll buy the fantasia. If they don't, oh well.

I look forward to checking up on this thread when the next round of fanfests come around.

Oh, that's a heckin oofin yikers! How dare you have *that opinion*, you must be a terrible person for having a hard contrasting view from mine! Is this reddit?

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Oh, that's a heckin oofin yikers! How dare you have *that opinion*, you must be a terrible person for having a hard contrasting view from mine! Is this reddit?

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Sorry we don’t openly support misogyny. You’re welcome to, if you fancy that mindset.

What was soggy knees about what that user posted? That men and women have physical differences?

Wanting to play as a slim woman is not misogyny if we take the term to mean "hating women." Goodness. It's just a preference.

Whatever helps y’all sleep at night. Doesn’t change my opinion of you, of course.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Wanting to play as a slim woman is not misogyny if we take the term to mean "hating women." Goodness. It's just a preference.

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Seems like it goes beyond "preference" at this point with your lengthy rants. You may not be out and out hating women, but you clearly hate the idea of anything that differs from your views of how a woman "should" be. Also the hilarious "Muscles=Men" comment. Just... what? Additionally, the weird political inference in an earlier comment from you. For the record, I don't subscribe to extremes, because quite frankly... they tick me off. I'm just tired of this horribly outdated and out of touch idea that women can't have any sort of muscle, because that somehow = men. Again... what? I feel like you and people who share your opinion would absolutely lose it if you ever saw anything from Boris Vallejo...

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Seems like it goes beyond "preference" at this point with your lengthy rants. You may not be out and out hating women, but you clearly hate the idea of anything that differs from your views of how a woman "should" be. Also the hilarious "Muscles=Men" comment. Just... what? Additionally, the weird political inference in an earlier comment from you. For the record, I don't subscribe to extremes, because quite frankly... they tick me off. I'm just tired of this horribly outdated and out of touch idea that women can't have any sort of muscle, because that somehow = men. Again... what? I feel like you and people who share your opinion would absolutely lose it if you ever saw anything from Boris Vallejo...

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I mean this whole thread is debating preference for what this race might be. One side is yelling that the other only want Miqo 2.0, meanwhile all they are saying is furry FemRoe isn't a good idea and would not likely be played is a significant amount and something more inline with khajiit/updated Ronso highlanders is a better move for player engagement.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean this whole thread is debating preference for what this race might be. One side is yelling that the other only want Miqo 2.0, meanwhile all they are saying is furry FemRoe isn't a good idea and would not likely be played is a significant amount and something more inline with khajiit/updated Ronso highlanders is a better move for player engagement.

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Sure, but again, Hrothgar were always niche (and SE knew that going in), so the "player engagement" argument doesn't even work. I see no reason to not continue in that same niche vein.

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Originally Posted by Roda

https://i.imgur.com/C58zshl.png

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I like this, though I do think that all faces should have hair regardless of the mural/fem ronso having no "manes". The idea of various headdresses is nice, but I feel like it would create another scenario where they fall behind on customization in addition to the existing hat debacle.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Sure, but again, Hrothgar were always niche (and SE knew that going in), so the "player engagement" argument doesn't even work. I see no reason to not continue in that same niche vein.

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Hrothgar were a success though, player engagement wise. They outdid Roes of both varieties. However, like many have pointed out male and female character and racial design are two very different beast. What works for males most of the time does not work for females and vice-versa.

Why is everyone ganging up on Aveyond-Dreams? I know what they are trying to say even if their explanation is all over the place. They simply want female Hrothgar to not look like the male Hrothgar in terms of how bulky and how much muscle they have. Female Hrothgar can still look powerful and elegant with toned down muscles. They just won't look ripped like they are some body builder.

I think some of you are just being completely dense and screaming "Misogyny" for no reason.

Because if you ignore their posts about what women should/shouldnt look like, their posts can be shortened to "I want to play a miqote but I dont want to play a miqote". They want a human faced human shaped human with kitty ears.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Why is everyone ganging up on Aveyond-Dreams? I know what they are trying to say even if their explanation is all over the place. They simply want female Hrothgar to not look like the male Hrothgar in terms of how bulky and how much muscle they have. Female Hrothgar can still look powerful and elegant with toned down muscles. They just won't look ripped like they are some body builder.

I think some of you are just being completely dense and screaming "Misogyny" for no reason.

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Yeah we’re the ‘dense’ ones here.

Sure.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Hrothgar were a success though, player engagement wise. They outdid Roes of both varieties. However, like many have pointed out male and female character and racial design are two very different beast. What works for males most of the time does not work for females and vice-versa.

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Outdoing Roes doesn't say much and is still a niche, given Roes themselves are niche. Again, a niche isn't a bad thing, and nothing needs to appeal to everyone, never mind how impossible such a thing would be. As I mentioned before, cat-girls bore me but I have a Viera, and I won't be changing her to male either. Those who want super thin women with no muscle already have that, so no reason to make fem Hroths more of the same.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I think some of you are just being completely dense and screaming "Misogyny" for no reason.

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You clearly didn't read all of said posters posts and the rebuttals to them then, either, if that's your entire take.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Outdoing Roes doesn't say much and is still a niche, given Roes themselves are niche. Again, a niche isn't a bad thing, and nothing needs to appeal to everyone, never mind how impossible such a thing would be. As I mentioned before, cat-girls bore me but I have a Viera, and I won't be changing her to male either. Those who want super thin women with no muscle already have that, so no reason to make fem Hroths more of the same.

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Are Highlanders thin? I don't really think so, and that is the general body type I see advocated for outside of FemRoefridgerator people.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Are Highlanders thin? I don't really think so, and that is the general body type I see advocated for outside of FemRoefridgerator people.

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Blatant hyperbole, calling them that. I mean... really? The males definitely fit; fem Roes aren't even close to anything resembling that. And yes, female Highlanders are thin, they're just toned and have better posture than Midlanders. Again, have a number of people in this thread just never seen actual female athletes that do any sort of lifting? Fem Roes are closer to that than anything, and Roes are meant to look powerful to begin with. If you can't tell the difference between the males and females, that's on you, chief.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Because if you ignore their posts about what women should/shouldnt look like, their posts can be shortened to "I want to play a miqote but I dont want to play a miqote". They want a human faced human shaped human with kitty ears.

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Uh, no. Maybe you should actually read what they are saying instead of getting triggered. Granted, like I said, their ideals and explanation is all over the place but it all boils down to "I don't want female Hrothgar to look all bulky like the males". And then the conversation just went else where because you and others went back and forth.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Yeah we’re the ‘dense’ ones here.

Sure.

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You're attitude says much about you.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

You clearly didn't read all of said posters posts and the rebuttals to them then, either, if that's your entire take.

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I did. The main point trying to be said is what I stated above in the first reply. Others didn't like the idea of a "Toned down Muscle-less female Hrothgar" apparently, and just went off.

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Overreacting on something miniscule is just beyond me.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You're attitude says much about you.

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Sorry, but misogyny gets on my nerves. As do defenders of it.

I don't respond to prejudice with a bright attitude and a winning smile.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Ok it's definitely starting to seem like you're more interested in pushing a...unique...ideological perspective.

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And what ideological perspective would that be?