Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Sairaag

It is weird, and goes to show how self-contained and perhaps self-involved Tural is as a continent. They trade with the outside world but seem to know almost nothing about it. We've met Turali characters before DT, some of them write letters and go back home, yet information from the world doesn't seem to make it across the ocean or maybe they simply don't care because eh, everything's well at home. I've been doing a lot of side content and lost count how many times a Turali character finds out that the WoL is a pretty big deal in the outside world, actually, only to have no reaction whatsoever. If it's not connected to Tural in some way, they don't care.

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I get that, I do. My issue is that the events of the Final Days was a Global event on the source. In the story it wasn't just contained to the locations we were located at, it was everywhere. There should be some evidence of the events.

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

I get that, I do. My issue is that the events of the Final Days was a Global event on the source. In the story it wasn't just contained to the locations we were located at, it was everywhere. There should be some evidence of the events.

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Yeah, and should have been felt a lot more due to how Mamook is.

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Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

Yeah, and should have been felt a lot more due to how Mamook is.

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Oh dang i didnt even think about that.

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Originally Posted by Serilyn

I was also very confused about why the Scions even accepted helping at all in a contest for leadership of a foreign land while having NO knowledge of the other participants aside from what the one hiring them said 'that ones bad'. I know we've helped budding leaders before, but we usually haven't outright gone 'okay this one should win over these others we know nothing about' and actively put all our efforts into making sure they win.

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It does leave a bit of a taste that the scions keep meddling in leadership affairs to such a degree…

You know maybe I am the only one but I am growing tired of being buddybuddy with every single leader of a nation.
It’s becoming realy unrealistic and onedimensional because right now there is actually worldpeace on Etherys because every leader of the nations is a goody two shoes and if not you have the nuclear warhead WoL dangling over all.

DT showed that we can just telephone in the first brood even.
I don‘t know where this is supposed to end.

In 6.55 they gabe me the choice of my character not being to happy with meddling in politics again only to forgoe that again after half an hour in DT with the WoL just too happy. At least a grumbling answer would have been nice.

I really wished they would start to learn to tell another story.

All writers are bad with that, even Ishikawa.
No evil nation leader allowed anymore and now with Garlemald gone there is no grey anymore in the world. Only peace and happiness.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Only peace and happiness.

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How it annoys me that I hear Wuk Lamat's accent now when I read those words.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

In 6.55 they gabe me the choice of my character not being to happy with meddling in politics again only to forgoe that again after half an hour in DT with the WoL just too happy. At least a grumbling answer would have been nice.

I really wished they would start to learn to tell another story.

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Would have been more fine if DT MSQ happened differently. I envy Estinien for just being able to go anywhere and do stuff. Except we're stuck babysitting a thoughtless catlady.
Musing where DT was just going around Tural while everything about the rite of succession happens in the background and probably meet the 1-2 claimants per map. Would also be nice to a solo duty where we get attacked by alexandrians machines during the night because of the sheer soul density and maybe another where we try to get to the palace while Tural is burning/being attacked to stop the leader. Heck i wouldn't mind if we offered our headhunting services to WL.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

It does leave a bit of a taste that the scions keep meddling in leadership affairs to such a degree…

You know maybe I am the only one but I am growing tired of being buddybuddy with every single leader of a nation.
It’s becoming realy unrealistic and onedimensional because right now there is actually worldpeace on Etherys because every leader of the nations is a goody two shoes and if not you have the nuclear warhead WoL dangling over all.

DT showed that we can just telephone in the first brood even.
I don‘t know where this is supposed to end.

In 6.55 they gabe me the choice of my character not being to happy with meddling in politics again only to forgoe that again after half an hour in DT with the WoL just too happy. At least a grumbling answer would have been nice.

I really wished they would start to learn to tell another story.

All writers are bad with that, even Ishikawa.
No evil nation leader allowed anymore and now with Garlemald gone there is no grey anymore in the world. Only peace and happiness.

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This. So mush this

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

This. So mush this

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I'll give Hiroi credit: the *idea* of two groups who are both 'right' coming into conflict is great.

He just... there's a level beyond screwing the pooch I apparently didn't know about.

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Originally Posted by BigBoom550

I'll give Hiroi credit: the *idea* of two groups who are both 'right' coming into conflict is great.

He just... there's a level beyond screwing the pooch I apparently didn't know about.

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Please don't screw Poochie. The last thing we need is mini Wuk Lamats.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Please don't screw Poochie. The last thing we need is mini Wuk Lamats.

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Talk to three Divorce Court attendees about child support 0/3

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Originally Posted by Isala

Please don't screw Poochie. The last thing we need is mini Wuk Lamats.

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Part of me is glad that I wasn't the only one who caught on that...

And the other got sad because I caught on that.

What I would give for another Bloody Banquet...

Tural could have been really interesting with the new people and cultures and possible dynamics. Peace is great and all but when everything is working near "perfectly" it leads to a very dull world of hand holding and singing campfire songs.

I'd have been nice if they drew upon more real world situations and historical events and just...how people interact with each other. It would have been nice to see people talk about the biggest political event in the last 80 years with more nuance. Have some in-fighting, have groups openly disagree with some of the candidates out in the open world. It would have made it feel a lot more connected to what was going on.

But again...this is all fan fiction and wishful thinking.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Please don't screw Poochie. The last thing we need is mini Wuk Lamats.

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https://i.imgur.com/bQAHdFC.png

The sad thing is that I really believe Wuk could've been an interesting character with some good development and story. Unfortunately, for me personally anyway, the story presented Wuk Lamat as a "Black Hole Sue" of sorts from start to finish.

Even if, as some people say, "Dawntrail is Wuk Lamat's expansion and story", many of the situations and confrontations that occur are presented very specifically to accommodate and reward Wuk's specific actions/way of thinking, with most resulting in "perfect" resolutions and outcomes always in her favor.

As much as I love my boy Bakool Ja Ja, you're not going to convince me that after kidnapping Wuk to take her keystone, releasing Valigarmanda for literally no reason other then essentially "because I can", and literally saying that Wuk's birth father was going to be killed after Wuk loses in 1 on 1 combat against him, alongside some other basic villain things like pulling his weapons out against civilians to strike them down and constantly blocking the feat paths, that after just a few bonks on the heads with an axe, one sad story that our WoL LITERALLY says to not use as an excuse for what he's done, and ONE short heart to heart talk with Wuk, they are now friends and everyone around just goes "Okay, he's forgiven." The fact Alisaie even says "Well, maybe it's for the best. Hatred is exhausting, after all" right after along with Wuk saying all her anger just disappeared effortlessly caused me some bad whiplash at how insanely sudden the 180 was both done and resolved with an absolutely perfect outcome.

I will say though, overall, I really did enjoy Dawntrail. Once I quickly figured out early on to turn my brain off when it came to Wuk Lamat in anyway.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

I will say though, overall, I really did enjoy Dawntrail. Once I quickly figured out early on to turn my brain off when it came to Wuk Lamat in anyway.

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Someone needs to make "Dawntrail Without Wuk Lamat" ala Garfield Without Garfield, if for no other reason I really want to see how much shorter it would be

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Originally Posted by BigBoom550

I'll give Hiroi credit: the *idea* of two groups who are both 'right' coming into conflict is great.

He just... there's a level beyond screwing the pooch I apparently didn't know about.

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I consider the concept pretentious.

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

Someone needs to make "Dawntrail Without Wuk Lamat" ala Garfield Without Garfield, if for no other reason I really want to see how much shorter it would be

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Now that you said it, I thought about it and It would be an amazing story.

MSQ would start with one of the grand companies receiving an S.O.S call from Tural asking for help against an "invader not from this world" (Maybe Erenville himself sends the message). We would arrive there when the "Dome" is already set and start building a counter-strike army. For that we visit 1 by 1 the Tural tribes, do some favours and in echange they have to help us fight against the invaders. Then we enter inside of the Dome with the Scions and the rest of the story would be more or less the same but without Wuk Lamat WukLamating every scene.

What a great thread to read. Good to see so many people dissappointed with Wuk Lamat and Dawntral MSQ in general.

I have a lot of thoughts to post here, but there is one particular one gnawing at my mind:

Tural is like... more than twice the size of Eorzea. And so far we didn't saw ANY signs of Ascian influence in this region. Not a single note.

Through the expansions it was revealed that Ascians messed up with pretty much every beast tribe they encountered. To sow unrest, cause conflicts and set up the Source for another Rejoining.

I cannot believe that such "fertile" land as Tural with its many tribes and nations that are not aware to their danger was ignored by them. Why these two huge continents has no long lasting problems whatsoever?! (Oh, Mamool Ja problem apparently wasn't one, because Wuk solved it in 5 minutes or so)

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

What a great thread to read. Good to see so many people dissappointed with Wuk Lamat and Dawntral MSQ in general.

I have a lot of thoughts to post here, but there is one particular one gnawing at my mind:

Tural is like... more than twice the size of Eorzea. And so far we didn't saw ANY signs of Ascian influence in this region. Not a single note.

Through the expansions it was revealed that Ascians messed up with pretty much every beast tribe they encountered. To sow unrest, cause conflicts and set up the Source for another Rejoining.

I cannot believe that such "fertile" land as Tural with its many tribes and nations that are not aware to their danger was ignored by them. Why these two huge continents has no long lasting problems whatsoever?! (Oh, Mamool Ja problem apparently wasn't one, because Wuk solved it in 5 minutes or so)

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I'm not sure but the Tural races might be too young? It's hard to say for sure because DT's world-building is absent. In one of the crafter quests you go through short fables from each race and it seems many might origin from Eorzea. Add to that how Gulool Ja Ja mostly connected the races rather than fought them for dominance.

It's still something I'd have liked to see explained more directly but that's a common theme across the expansion: Minimal world-building built for the sole purpose of whatever's happening in the plot right now.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I really wished they would start to learn to tell another story.

All writers are bad with that, even Ishikawa.
No evil nation leader allowed anymore and now with Garlemald gone there is no grey anymore in the world. Only peace and happiness.

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Yeah, this is why I kept saying that even when FF14 do have good story, they only know how to write ONE type of story.

you know, put aside the rubber bullet, iam still amazed how ketenramn is alived, when the scene he got ambushed and straight up "slashed effect" i though he is pretty much dead, but it turn out he just get "bonk" to unconscious.

if this is any previous expansion, that scene usually 100% dead, granted i havent finished the main story yet so maybe he got some important role later, but i just cant think that this expansion it really felt got "disneyfy" a lot

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Originally Posted by gumas

you know, put aside the rubber bullet, iam still amazed how ketenramn is alived, when the scene he got ambushed and straight up "slashed effect" i though he is pretty much dead, but it turn out he just get "bonk" to unconscious.

if this is any previous expansion, that scene usually 100% dead, granted i havent finished the main story yet so maybe he got some important role later, but i just cant think that this expansion it really felt got "disneyfy" a lot

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Your thoughts are more on the money than you think. Especially when you get further. Let's just say, you're going to find out how Disney it really is. To the point of an actual reference.

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Originally Posted by gumas

you know, put aside the rubber bullet, iam still amazed how ketenramn is alived, when the scene he got ambushed and straight up "slashed effect" i though he is pretty much dead, but it turn out he just get "bonk" to unconscious.

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This reveal made me laugh so hard. If I hadn't witnessed the scene of him being attacked with my own eyes I would have had no idea it even happened when we saw him again. He didn't appear injured or even shaken up, just completely unaffected. What was the point?

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Originally Posted by sylphlands

This reveal made me laugh so hard. If I hadn't witnessed the scene of him being attacked with my own eyes I would have had no idea it even happened when we saw him again. He didn't appear injured or even shaken up, just completely unaffected. What was the point?

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Think it was a JJ Abrams moment... kill everyone, but not really.

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Originally Posted by sylphlands

This reveal made me laugh so hard. If I hadn't witnessed the scene of him being attacked with my own eyes I would have had no idea it even happened when we saw him again. He didn't appear injured or even shaken up, just completely unaffected. What was the point?

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The entire time I was waiting for him to go "AHAH! THE REAL KETENRAMN WAS ASSASSINATED, I AM ACTUALLY <insert Villain>".

Like why have him not only survive, but practically downplay the whole thing and not even mention it for quite a few scenes only to go the way it did. I can't even call it a clever red herring because there's no grander mystery at play here, it's just "Sometimes, the truth is boring" I guess? It's so confusing what the writer's intent here was.

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Originally Posted by gumas

you know, put aside the rubber bullet, iam still amazed how ketenramn is alived, when the scene he got ambushed and straight up "slashed effect" i though he is pretty much dead, but it turn out he just get "bonk" to unconscious.

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Clearly Ketenramm was slashed in the back with a rubber sword that Zoraal Ja just has on him for very specific times like this.

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

The entire time I was waiting for him to go "AHAH! THE REAL KETENRAMN WAS ASSASSINATED, I AM ACTUALLY <insert Villain>".

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I was thinking the exact same thing but also I just want to say that scene loading into the goofy ass main city day theme was the funniest thing ever, I just watched some guy (as far as I was aware) get brutally assassinated in his own home and it immediately cuts to the Monsters Inc theme blaring happily into my ears, I had to give myself a minute before continuing because I was laughing so hard at the tonal whiplash
PoV: You have just been murdered in cold blood in Final Fantasy XIV: Dawntrail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs4DNJxG4v4

Why didn't Ishgard and the Dragons just make some mixed food cuisine to end their blood war? Are they stupid???

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Why didn't Ishgard and the Dragons just make some mixed food cuisine to end their blood war? Are they stupid???

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Ishgard drank dragon blood.
Hraesvelgr ate his wife.

the whole thing more or less started over food.

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

What a great thread to read. Good to see so many people dissappointed with Wuk Lamat and Dawntral MSQ in general.

I have a lot of thoughts to post here, but there is one particular one gnawing at my mind:

Tural is like... more than twice the size of Eorzea. And so far we didn't saw ANY signs of Ascian influence in this region. Not a single note.

Through the expansions it was revealed that Ascians messed up with pretty much every beast tribe they encountered. To sow unrest, cause conflicts and set up the Source for another Rejoining.

I cannot believe that such "fertile" land as Tural with its many tribes and nations that are not aware to their danger was ignored by them. Why these two huge continents has no long lasting problems whatsoever?! (Oh, Mamool Ja problem apparently wasn't one, because Wuk solved it in 5 minutes or so)

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Tural's map design is perhaps the best example of how complete shit the post-ARR field design is in terms of content and non-text lore. Tural is supposed to be massive, but exploring it doesn't feel that big thanks to Creative Studio 3's strict 6-field zones-no-more-no-less formula, and the maps are incredibly barren.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

The sad thing is that I really believe Wuk could've been an interesting character with some good development and story. Unfortunately, for me personally anyway, the story presented Wuk Lamat as a "Black Hole Sue" of sorts from start to finish.

Even if, as some people say, "Dawntrail is Wuk Lamat's expansion and story", many of the situations and confrontations that occur are presented very specifically to accommodate and reward Wuk's specific actions/way of thinking, with most resulting in "perfect" resolutions and outcomes always in her favor.

As much as I love my boy Bakool Ja Ja, you're not going to convince me that after kidnapping Wuk to take her keystone, releasing Valigarmanda for literally no reason other then essentially "because I can", and literally saying that Wuk's birth father was going to be killed after Wuk loses in 1 on 1 combat against him, alongside some other basic villain things like pulling his weapons out against civilians to strike them down and constantly blocking the feat paths, that after just a few bonks on the heads with an axe, one sad story that our WoL LITERALLY says to not use as an excuse for what he's done, and ONE short heart to heart talk with Wuk, they are now friends and everyone around just goes "Okay, he's forgiven." The fact Alisaie even says "Well, maybe it's for the best. Hatred is exhausting, after all" right after along with Wuk saying all her anger just disappeared effortlessly caused me some bad whiplash at how insanely sudden the 180 was both done and resolved with an absolutely perfect outcome.

I will say though, overall, I really did enjoy Dawntrail. Once I quickly figured out early on to turn my brain off when it came to Wuk Lamat in anyway.

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The reaction of every NPC and character in Dawntrail is basically this:
https://media1.tenor.com/m/D5qN37y8U...-hearts-ok.gif

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

The reaction of every NPC and character in Dawntrail is basically this:
https://media1.tenor.com/m/D5qN37y8U...-hearts-ok.gif

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Ahhh, the good ol "Kingdom Hearts Experience" Series by Stickman Sham. A good watch. I cannot wait for the entirety of the Post MSQ for Dawntrail to be the same as regular MSQ, or somehow even more cursed.

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Originally Posted by gumas

if this is any previous expansion, that scene usually 100% dead, granted i havent finished the main story yet so maybe he got some important role later, but i just cant think that this expansion it really felt got "disneyfy" a lot

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And what's funny is that they could've cleared this mess of a cutscene with one additional shot. Pan the camera down over Ketenramm's body, then swap the frame on his hand and show it twitch or curl a little, showing that the life is still present. BAM, he is clearly still alive, but something evil is afoot. And now his sudden appearance in Gulool Ja Ja assassination cutscene is no more confusing.

With that problem cleared, here is another question for you all (maybe it was asked already, but the thread getting kinda big):

Why such seasoned seafarer, explorer and pioneer was keeping ALL SEVEN KEYSTONES in his house under his pillow, ripe for the taking by any determined thief? Maybe I am paranoic, but if I was entrusted the keys to the room with a super mysterious and potentially very dangerous artifact, I would have hidden them in separate places all over the zone. That makes anyone wanting to claim them either search a needle in the haystack or try to interrogate the keeper.

Oh, and also, even with keystones stolen, this guy didn't raised any alarm. Like at all. The entire Wild West zone story has happened, and nobody got told anything. It would've made sense if Ketenramm was actually killed, but thanks to "dineyfication", he is apparently not while the player at that particular moment assumes that he is dead. So... with his sudden appearance in mentioned cutscene, the writing just falls apart.

Think about it, if not for this guy massive blunder, the second arc wouldn't have started, lmao. I understand that writers wanted to push the narrative, but they did it in the most crude and lazy way. In line with majority of Dawntrail, sadly.

So who the hell were the other dragons that flew in with Vrtra to help defend the city? He doesn't have any dragon brood of his own.

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Originally Posted by Karious

So who the hell were the other dragons that flew in with Vrtra to help defend the city? He doesn't have any dragon brood of his own.

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I always assume any of the first brood have a fly of their own even if we don't see them, and there is his sister's brood as well.

I doubt any of the first brood is a virgin over ten thousands of years.

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

And what's funny is that they could've cleared this mess of a cutscene with one additional shot. Pan the camera down over Ketenramm's body, then swap the frame on his hand and show it twitch or curl a little, showing that the life is still present. BAM, he is clearly still alive, but something evil is afoot. And now his sudden appearance in Gulool Ja Ja assassination cutscene is no more confusing.

With that problem cleared, here is another question for you all (maybe it was asked already, but the thread getting kinda big):

Why such seasoned seafarer, explorer and pioneer was keeping ALL SEVEN KEYSTONES in his house under his pillow, ripe for the taking by any determined thief? Maybe I am paranoic, but if I was entrusted the keys to the room with a super mysterious and potentially very dangerous artifact, I would have hidden them in separate places all over the zone. That makes anyone wanting to claim them either search a needle in the haystack or try to interrogate the keeper.

Oh, and also, even with keystones stolen, this guy didn't raised any alarm. Like at all. The entire Wild West zone story has happened, and nobody got told anything. It would've made sense if Ketenramm was actually killed, but thanks to "dineyfication", he is apparently not while the player at that particular moment assumes that he is dead. So... with his sudden appearance in mentioned cutscene, the writing just falls apart.

Think about it, if not for this guy massive blunder, the second arc wouldn't have started, lmao. I understand that writers wanted to push the narrative, but they did it in the most crude and lazy way. In line with majority of Dawntrail, sadly.

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There is a saying that goes like that :if you want to hide a tree, hide it in a forest.
Meaning : the more obvious place are often dismissed by thief.... Because "nah than can't be here, it would be foolish"

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

... -snip-

Oh, and also, even with keystones stolen, this guy didn't raised any alarm. Like at all. The entire Wild West zone story has happened, and nobody got told anything. It would've made sense if Ketenramm was actually killed, but thanks to "dineyfication", he is apparently not while the player at that particular moment assumes that he is dead. So... with his sudden appearance in mentioned cutscene, the writing just falls apart.

Think about it, if not for this guy massive blunder, the second arc wouldn't have started, lmao. I understand that writers wanted to push the narrative, but they did it in the most crude and lazy way. In line with majority of Dawntrail, sadly.

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The scene honestly just undermined any actual possible tension for the second half. Square once again couldn't pull the trigger by killing off a somewhat established character.

As cheap a death as it would have been, it might, just MIGHT, have added some weight to Zoraal Ja's actions instead of his kill count being Soreel Ja, Goulul Ja Ja and...several npcs. This isn't to undermine his "evilness" but it certainly could have shown him as much more ruthless. (Also no one really knows that Soreel Ja was killed as far as the narrative is concerned.)

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

Your thoughts are more on the money than you think. Especially when you get further. Let's just say, you're going to find out how Disney it really is. To the point of an actual reference.

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With all the "family friendly" treatment in this exoansion, iam surprised we didnt get singing cutscene

I can imagine wuk lamat singing let it go or a whole new world in tuliyollal from her balcony "castle" lol

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Originally Posted by gumas

With all the "family friendly" treatment in this exoansion, iam surprised we didnt get singing cutscene

I can imagine wuk lamat singing let it go or a whole new world in tuliyollal from her balcony "castle" lol

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See the problem with the "family friendly" thing is... You have to get past all the definitely not family friendly stuff that came before it. Like the scene where that one Military Leader "Rubber Bulleted" himself just off screen, and we could see the end results on the wall and flag that were behind him.

I'm still fairly early in the MSQ and it's a bit boring...and I don't blame Wuk.....at this point