There we have it. My idea was this from the first post i threw in this thread. The battle system isn't the only thing that needs a re-design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
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05-11-2011, 05:11 AMNuru
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05-11-2011, 05:12 AMNuruIt takes one person to not troll back. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
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05-11-2011, 05:12 AMPeregrineThey were never players. They're just the concentrated dregs of the online community. This game harbors cheaters. It doesn't make them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
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05-11-2011, 05:16 AMKurokikazeI agree completely. Many systems in this game need massive overhauls and need to be implemented in a much more functional way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
Hey! I never trolled you. >.>
^ Peregrine is still mouthbreathing. -
05-11-2011, 05:16 AMNuruYou have to admit though, these bots are activated by players who'm have purchased this game with their own money. Its going to be difficult to have reason enough to ban anyone at this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
A change in the crafting system seems like the best answer, since it benefits all players, and will reduce the amount of bots, considering they change it into a favorable system.
Nah, I know you didn't, i was referring to the discussion between you and Per. People just need to learn how to be more considerate of one anothers' stance on certain issues. That way, we can discuss the matters at hand instead of arguing over who is right and who is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
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05-11-2011, 05:22 AMKurokikaze
The real problem with this game is that it tries to hard to hamper these efforts that it makes it inconvenient for normal players to play the way it was designed. Thereby making it more likely for them to pick up bots to do the dirty/mundane work.
The harder you try to prevent something... the harder others try to overcome that. SE needs to just say "Fuck it. Automated NQ crafting for everyone. If you wanna HQ you gotta play the minigame though."
^ the above would be a quick-fix but still not the approach I would want them to take. -
05-11-2011, 05:25 AMNuruWell, even with a system like that, I can imagine people botting as much as crafting the HQ items to sell for more gil. All they really have to do is make crafting take much less time and much less commands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
However, this still wont be enough to wipe out most botters. They will always exist in any game that allows it. Because there will be those people that can't play a game for what it is. Whether it be enjoyable or not. -
05-11-2011, 05:28 AMbsphil
Why don't you all just go ahead and say you bot. Are you ashamed?[/QUOTE]I'm not pro-botting, I'm anti-you.
For what it's worth, I just started playing again yesterday after being gone about 2 months. -
05-11-2011, 05:32 AMNuru
Mmmhmm, and in no way am I ever going to bot. I'm even proud to say that I sat through hours of crafting to get Goldsmithing to 20, Armorer to 12, and Blacksmith to 11, and i plan to take all of my classes to the top without resorting to botting, under any circumstances, because this is what the game is and how it is meant to be played.
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05-11-2011, 05:32 AMKurokikazeThe approach I explained would be SE baking a bot into NQ crafting. Essentially making the game like WoW and remove crafting from the "class" list. It should have never been there to start. Sure they can have their own guild etc... But they failed the moment they decided to make crafting a full on experience. Crafting is work irl and its still work in-game. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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05-11-2011, 05:35 AMNuruAs it will always be. You can't blame them for trying to make crafting in this game a bit more immersible though. The intentions were to make crafting in this game more of a hobby and a definite role in the game's community rather than a tedious experience to draw the demand of botting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
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05-11-2011, 05:38 AMKurokikaze
Oh its a hobby alright.
I'd say the whole thing was a lofty and very interesting concept at the start. The end results... not so much.
I find it hard to believe that someone at SE leveled a craft/gathering class how they were meant to and didn't run into these concerns.
Then again... theres so many problems with the game that its hard to believe they play it at all. Gotta be playing the test version that looks sorta like TERA. -
05-11-2011, 05:49 AMAzurymber
lol um... wow.....
so basic arguments seem to be:
1. Botting is fine cuz the game sucks
2. I don't bot but botting is fine cuz the game sucks so i undersand
3. Botting is cheating and cheating is never right
4. I'm a troll and just posting here to troll trolls who got trolled by reverse-trolls
o_o
Does anyone consider that rampant botting will ruin this game so when its launched on PS3 no one will want to play and thus it will essentially stay dead? -
05-11-2011, 05:50 AMNuruNot sure if you mean whether they are playing it now, or before release?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
I'm sure you know that they most likely didn't have the time to dick around with the crafting system prior to release. SE was sort of in that "Fuck it lets release as is, we don't have time" kinda mood. As for the beta testers (which I know you were one of them, i subbed to you. :D), the feedback that was provided wasn't looked into because of the release.
People need to realize that this game wasn't the same game anybody on that development team really envisioned when it released. If i was on that dev team, I'd have a strong desire to facepalm myself until this game is better, and that palm print on my forehead would last me the rest of my life.
There are changes coming to crafting, but I'm not sure i it deals with the crafting process itself, just the item output and results. -
05-11-2011, 05:52 AMKurokikaze
The game has more important things to worry about than rampant botting. More so when gil means jack shit.
Lower the need to cheat by making the mundane things more fun or actually automated. Two birds, 1 rock, everyone wins. -
05-11-2011, 05:52 AMNuruOkay, so what part of "changing the crafting system" haven't you read? I would strongly recommend you read the posts between Kuro and I because they entail an intelligent discussion on how to counter the bots. We are basically talking about how to kill two birds with one stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurymber
O_OQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
... ummm /blush -
05-11-2011, 05:52 AMbsphilWrong. Not saying that botting is fine. That's just WHY people are drawn to botting. If the game had less tedium in it, there'd be a relatively lower population of botters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurymber
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05-11-2011, 05:52 AMGraciousYou basically summed up the whole thread. The direction by the trolls has overtaken any real discussion we could have into it. I also am concerned about the rampant botting and how it will effect PS3 launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurymber
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05-11-2011, 05:56 AMNuruYou do realize that if we do get rid of the current botting, the system is still tedious and they will come right back... right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracious
Think a little bit before you post, and determine what makes more sense. -
05-11-2011, 05:56 AMKurokikazeI meant the SE staff conducting the internal testing of all aspects of their game. Shit must've been a sweatshop. Y U NO CRAFT FASTA!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
Oh I realize thats the case and I'm saying that SE is completely to blame for that. They chose to disregard the public opinion on the beta forums.
Theres a lot of concepts in this game that if I was at their board meetings when they were being pitched my response would be "GTFO!". -
05-11-2011, 05:57 AMAbhorash
Wonder what the dev team did during those 5-6 years of deving, why they didn't take what worked in ffxi is beyond me. Leveling a craft to 50 the way it was intended is crazy too, honestly theres no difference in botting or doing it yourself, its just a mindless grind.
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05-11-2011, 05:57 AMGraciousPlease don't attack me. I'm not attacking you. I don't agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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05-11-2011, 05:58 AMKurokikazeMy posts are fast... I... might be a bot. O_OQuote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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05-11-2011, 05:59 AMTheVedisthey will come back regardlessQuote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
theres a reason that people are constantly banned for rmt and botting in every game on a regular basis
doesnt matter what game, it still happens -
05-11-2011, 06:02 AMKurokikazeHow about looking at how mainstream these tactics are in other games before running off at the mouth?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Hold on I'll help you. It's not mainstream or common at all because the average player doesn't have to. -
05-11-2011, 06:02 AMTheVedisi haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
go troll somewhere else please -
05-11-2011, 06:05 AMdarkstarpoet1
i have never been in a game that does not have rampant hackers and botting over the internet. i do agree it is wrong and people doin it should be banned, but don't try to act like this is the only game in existance in which people bot.
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05-11-2011, 06:08 AMNuruYes, and as i mentioned earlier, it always will! Now with that said, what exactly is your argument? You are saying that since bots will always come back, we should ban them or should we just let them have their way? Either way will lead to the same conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Now, if you made the crafting system less tedious, the less bots will be used because crafting will simply be a lot less work. SE needs to find a way to make it fun to craft and i do think Materia will play its part in doing that. Yoshida could be steps ahead of us but we will never know until we hear exactly what the plans are. Until then, people are still going to argue over their own contradictory arguement. If that makes sense.
Umm, you deliberately and indirectly referred to me as a troll, and i begged your reconsider. -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracious
Anyways, the main goal here isnt exactly to get rid of all botters, but to find a way to diminish [SIZE="5"]the need or desire to bot.[/SIZE]
Which usually results in the decrease of botters. You guys are getting your way too, we aren't saying that getting rid of botters is a bad thing, we are just trying to get rid of the main reason to why people bot in the first place, t\with the understanding that yes, people will still bot, just that there will be less.
If you cant see this as [SIZE="5"]an answer to both prayers[/SIZE]. Then i recommend you take a moment for yourself, let off some steam \, then come back and try to understand the bigger picture here. -
05-11-2011, 06:10 AMTheVedisim extremely against themQuote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
if you read my other posts youd more then realize that, i want them all banned
what most of this thread has degenerated into though is people saying its ok to bot cuz thats the way it is with this game, which is total BS -
05-11-2011, 06:11 AMKurokikaze
We should start by banning you. Cause that is one too many high level crafting jobs. No way that was legitimate.
Do you see how that works? -
05-11-2011, 06:15 AMGraciousYes I did refer to trolling. I wasn't targeting you directly as I do not have all the names memorized of the players posting. I have however read this thread more than once. There was a good conversation in the matter before some of the players posting began being rude and uncivil to other players posting. Also seeming to target certain individuals that also made good points. The thread topic is "Botting Being Rampent"; Can you explain why players are targeting other players instead of just saying their opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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05-11-2011, 06:16 AMTheVedisyes i see how it works, now let me explain it to the ignorant like you how it worksQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
they dont ban people for having alot of levels, if they ddi no one would play cuz theyd get banned for hitting cap
they investigate(which is the thing alot of people dont understand)
they dont ban people for being reported, they check on them, several times at that to see what patterns anbd activity they do
if the person is non responsive, does the same thing over and over....yeah they are obviously a bot, and bam they are banned
for people like me, legit people, who talk nonstop in game while doing everything, its obvious they are legit -
05-11-2011, 06:17 AMTheVedisbecause those players are immature and dont want a conversation, they want to troll, and argue, and see how pissed off they can make everyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by Gracious
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05-11-2011, 06:18 AMNuruYes, we are all extremely against them. We've covered this. None of us think it is okay to bot. That is not what this game is or how it is supposed to be played.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
We gave away the reason why people bot, is because the crafting process is tedious, and other systems are the same way, but crafting in general is way too tedious.
Now that we've covered the root of the problem, here is our solution. Change the crafting process, and all other tedious processes that people use bots for. You see how this works? No Legit player has to worry about being banned, and the people that bot really have no excuse to bot anymore, unless they were extremely lazy and have no sense of accmplishment, which in general, shouldnt even matter to you.
By the way Vedis, the main problem is that there isn't any special task force or GMs to investigate. The only other way is to just suggest a new crafting process. This won't only reduce the number of botters, but it will also be made more suitable for the rest of the playerbase.
Also, Gracious, it was a misunderstanding, sorry about that.
The only reason anyone would get pissed off is because they are not looking at this as a discussion, but rather an arguement, and of course, everyone wants to be the one who is right. In a discussion, people normally through in reasons why some ideas wont work. I have yet to see anyone give me a good reason why a Crafting Process revamp will reduce the amount of botters.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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05-11-2011, 06:18 AMGraciousThis makes me sad ; ;Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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05-11-2011, 06:20 AMKurokikazeHow can you say that with the stance you've taken on the matter. You wont even budge an inch to the center yet you say the others don't want a conversation. Hypocrisy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Nuru and I were having a decent conversation until you guys ruined it. Whos trolling?
trololol -
05-11-2011, 06:20 AMdarkstarpoet1i have to disagree here. no matter how much they change crafting for people to enjoy it even more the people that bot just to hit max rank will do so regardless of how much fun the rest of us have. the best method is just to ban the cheaters that are cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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05-11-2011, 06:21 AMTheVedischanging it is only a temp solution unfortunately, people who are going to bot will still bot(and its not just crafting they will do it in, they do it in all aspects of the game)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
me, i wouldnt mind it being made easier, itd help me finish off the rest of my crafts -
05-11-2011, 06:21 AMAzurymber
Some people actually like the crafting system. From what I hear the whole grinding-ness of it is fairly attractive to japanese players. Personally I kinda enjoy it. It's boring by itself but fun to do when watching university lectures or netflix. Saying "people bot because the system sucks" isn't a good argument because there are alternatives in the game like levelling dow/dom. If crafting is too tedious and boring then don't craft. Wasn't that the point of the game in the first place? That people could choose different jobs to -MAIN- so if you didn't like crafting you could just stick to dom/dow?
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05-11-2011, 06:22 AMKurokikazeThen you ban the people that continue to bot after the fact (which will be far less than before if done right). Why is this a hard concept?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis