Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

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Originally Posted by Peyko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4T...ature=youtu.be

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Ohh, hey, that's me and my video. :D

How long has this been circulating

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Originally Posted by Skattered

Here in australia, we got nightmare level latency.... I would clearly stepped out and even wait fr a bit before the attack was launched ans still getting hit...

I got latency problem even in WoW, but with a little practice, its still manageable... This game on the other hand... Its just....


Well..... I guess im either bad or not pro enuff...

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I pretty much have to do fortune telling. Or begin moving 2 seconds in advance.

OP: Try lowering your game settings to the lowest for the fight. Helps a lot of people get more fps, including myself.

It really depends on their goal though.
It could have been a financial decision or simply because they have a specific audience in mind.
It's not the devs that decide about cash and what is important and what not.

Just like I believe that devs from SE would have loved to let more players enjoy Final Fantasy Type-0.
It's just that the suits decided translating the game would be a waste of time.


Japanese companies and customers have different standards.
Yoshi P stated that Japanese aren't all that familiar with MMo's, not sure how much truth that holds.
But taking his word, It could also mean their dev team considers this as normal just like the Japanese consumer.


Which is also their main target since they seem to put a lot more effort in them.
If the game bombs here but sells good in Japan they would call it a success.


Japan has a good net structure as well so most will play with 350ms which is pretty doable.
It isn't perfect but hey if you got nothing to compare it to in MMO's and the game is playable most will accept it.


Looking at it from that point, I can image why this was considered acceptable.
When ever I find this playable and their attitude acceptable is a whole different story though.

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I pretty much have to do fortune telling. Or begin moving 2 seconds in advance.

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Sound like a new job to me.

I dont think ill be handing over any money once the free period ends unless there is a major anouncement that they absolutly intend to fix this and appologize for stating numerous times that it would be fixed for 2.0 but failed to do so.

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Originally Posted by DrPancakes

Want your relic?

If yes quit now.

If no quit now.

Cant progress to coil without hm Titan.

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I have enough interest in the storyline to finish getting to 50. So I won't quit now. But thanks for the advice.

I called technical support and the guy I got told me to buy a new graphics card, that my 560 TI was causing the high ping and lag. I told him I had 60 FPS at all times even on titan, he responded to this with run a DXDIAG and e-mail it to us, giving no other instructions he then told me he was on the phone too long.

You can assume ladies and gentlemen that SE is done fixing anything and that this is final product, he sounded like he had been reading from a card the entire call. At one point the man actually began to tell me that no one lags that he knows of, and that it's got to be a problem on my end despite me reading to him the results of over 15 traceroutes which proved that the timeouts only happened with SE's IP addresses.

I really am researching the laws to see if a class action or anything is possible at this point, I feel completely deceived by a year of promises and I feel like they kicked us off of JP servers to make sure the game was a success in Japan.

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

I dont think ill be handing over any money once the free period ends unless there is a major anouncement that they absolutly intend to fix this and appologize for stating numerous times that it would be fixed for 2.0 but failed to do so.

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I hope more people are of your mind, then I won't have to wait for instances to reserve anymore. ^_^

the position checks and latency in this game is horrible, it's not designed for players having more than a few ms of latency.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I hope more people are of your mind, then I won't have to wait for instances to reserve anymore. ^_^

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Yes, let's hope that player bleed fixes yet another issue that this game shouldn't have had at all in the first place, if the developers were remotely competent.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I hope more people are of your mind, then I won't have to wait for instances to reserve anymore. ^_^

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So you hope a SE loses a shit ton of subs, again, and the game near flops, again. You sir can get lost instead.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Ohh, hey, that's me and my video. :D

How long has this been circulating

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I found it in the thread that is currently in the accepted bugs forum. I showed it to my wife and she said that was exactly what was happening to her. She was relieved that she wasn't crazy.

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

Truth be told I hope I'm wrong and that they actually pull a fix for this so we can all laugh about this in a couple of months.
In fact I hope every white knight gets to chance to tell people like me 'told you so' and that the server checks won't exists any more in their current form.

How ever when you claimed to address the issue since 1.0 , state 2.0 will fix it.
State on the beta forums you fixed the issue while nothing changed at all.
Then continue to put it now under 'bug accepted' while not saying a word I kind of don't believe it.

This is how they coded their game, people that studied for this looked at it and after tests they said to each other ' this is acceptable'
The problem didn't fell out of the sky and it didn't sneak in.
The only way you can have this if you as dev think this isn't a problem.

I don't see why they would suddenly be motivated to fix it.

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Yep pretty much this, there are too many people defending SE on this, so they can afford to leave it as is. SE simply has low standards for these things.

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Originally Posted by complexxL9

Yep pretty much this, there are too many people defending SE on this, so they can afford to leave it as is. SE simply has low standards for these things.

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Very true.

Even now, with a mountain of videos showing the problem and an accepted bug report that is still outstanding proving that the devs acknowledge that it is real, we have people coming to these forums saying that there isn't a problem and blaming the players.

It is a real problem, but it seems unlikely they can fix it so we just have to accept that. They built brand new servers (hardware and software) to address it and here we are today with the same problem. There's not much more they can do.

The game is great and if you're willing to work around the lag problem it can still be enjoyed. I hope that one day it will be fixed but I'm not holding my breath.

are we giving up already? come on, voice with your wallets, if they don't fix it by the time they start collecting money then just quit the game, show that we as consumers don't want to pay to get frustrated everytime we can't dodge something we've already done so.

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Originally Posted by Silverwalk

Very true.

Even now, with a mountain of videos showing the problem and an accepted bug report that is still outstanding proving that the devs acknowledge that it is real, we have people coming to these forums saying that there isn't a problem and blaming the players.

It is a real problem, but it seems unlikely they can fix it so we just have to accept that. They built brand new servers (hardware and software) to address it and here we are today with the same problem. There's not much more they can do.

The game is great and if you're willing to work around the lag problem it can still be enjoyed. I hope that one day it will be fixed but I'm not holding my breath.

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Agreed.....
Whats worse is that there is a F2p game that has absolutely no lag and is amazingly responsive...
Unfortunately, everything else about that game *cough*TERA*cough* Blows ASS... even the battle system
But at least it is responsive....
Play 2 accounts side by side and you'll notice both characters see each other in real time... with no delay. And that game is extremely similar to this. Same red dodging circles... Similar controller Scheme. If they can do it using good old Unreal 3... why can't SE with their new fangled engine

That proves that it's not impossible... and it's not inevitable lag due to the internet.
200ms ping =/= 1 second delay

The most irritating thing about this for me is that it makes me (and everyone else who suffers) look like bad players! The "But I *did* dodge it!" excuse sounds terribly lame... but it's true ~_~

Just to add support to Rydin's post - I also played TERA, as an EU customer on US servers, and I had *no* issues there so I really shouldn't here. In fact, I can think of at least two F2P games (TERA and PSO2) that have combat that's even more action-y than FFXIV and give me zero AOE lag issues - and in neither case am I playing in the region the servers are located in.

So I just got to 50 yesterday and did a bunch of Ifrit hardmodes with my guild today. Had the same problem. It's infuriating as it looks like I'm a terrible player when I was not inside the damn fire lane. And plenty of times I had it look to me like I had messed up and was in the aoe and somehow magically didn't get hit. I've never had this problem with other games.

Yep this is definitely not a lag issue, but an issue with SE's code. I'd like to say that SE is working on it, and to give them time, but I have not heard any response from them since the last one (during beta).

I'm not sure what the problem is. If it's checking every .3 seconds, the least it could do is run some movement prediction. That should not be very hard...

I.E.

Code:

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0 secs
--------------AoE----------------->
(ﾉ*ﾟｰﾟ)ﾉ

0.3 secs
--------------AoE----------------->
----------------------(ﾉ*ﾟｰﾟ)ﾉ

0.4 secs
<--------------AoE----------------->
-------------------------------------(ﾉ*ﾟｰﾟ)ﾉ

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instead of what's happening, which seems to be

Code:

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0 secs
--------------AoE----------------->
(;¬_¬)

0.3 secs
--------------AoE----------------->
--------------(;¬_¬)

0.5 secs
--------------AoE----------------->
--------------(✖╭╮✖)

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Or they could force position checks at the start and at the end of every major AOE attack. That wouldn't help with other responsiveness issues, but at least we won't have to hold our breath and wait for a second before we find out that we didn't(?!?!?) make it out of the AOE.

Or I don't know - I don't have the state diagram or code in front of me. Maybe there's already movement prediction, and that's actually the problem.

I just want to know that the Devs are aware and thinking of a solution, or going through the code/states/something, or thinking about it but there's other more pressing issues. I'd be OK with that.

Just want them to say. Yes - we plan to address this in the future! That's all - or at least a very good start.

I think it is about time they should at least acknowledge it and explain the system limitation.

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Originally Posted by Kommunist

I think it is about time they should at least acknowledge it and explain the system limitation.

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Can do!

This problem was recognized in 2011. Please read this http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-be-addressed on these forums.

Most recently from Yoshi:

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Area Attacks and Latency Issues

Producer and director Yoshi-P here.
Thank you for all of your feedback on latency issues and the evasion of enemy attacks. As we continue working to address these issues in time for phase 4 and release, I'd like to inform you all of the current situation.This post will focus on area attacks that are difficult to evade, or still connect even if you appear to have avoided it.

Damage taken when Ifrit uses Eruption.

When Ifrit used eruption in phase 3, the animation had a momentary build-up before the explosion. Because of this momentary buildup, there was a slight delay between the server's check and the explosion. This has already been corrected for phase 4 and release.

Damage taken for what looked like a near miss.

1. Registering Player Damage

In phase 3, when judging whether a character was standing in an attack's area of impact, your position was checked using a circle around your character to represent the space your character stands in.

Furthermore, to keep the different races balanced, the radius of this circle was the same for all characters. Because of this, even if you appeared to have barely escaped the area of effect, a portion of the circle was still within range. This created the illusion that you barely evaded attack, with varying results depending on your race.
For phase 4 and release, this circle has been reduced to a single point at the center of where your character is standing to more accurately determine your position.

2. Enemy Progress Bars and Area of Impact

Being an online game, there will always be a minimal delay when input is received from the player and sent back after being processed by the server.
In FFXIV: ARR, your position is checked by the server once every 0.3 seconds. This timing is synced and processed according to the servers to prevent lag between your input and what you see.

During phase 3, however, this syncing did not take place due to stringent server checks that took place, causing lag between what you saw on the enemy progress bar and your character's positioning. As a result, even if you appeared to be outside the area of impact when the progress bar was filled, damage was still taken.

Adjustments are being made to reduce lag as much as possible, and syncing should improve the timing between enemy cast bars, area of effect markers, and the actual attacks.

Rest assured that we're doing what we can to make sure players can safely evade attacks by watching enemy cast bars and markers for area attacks.

Players overseas were also affected by having to access the Japan data center in Version 1.0, as this further delayed the relay of data from the server. With the establishment of a regional data center and the above measures being taken to improve syncing with the servers, we will continue working to ensure an enjoyable gaming experience for all of our players.
(Even with a great connection, I think there's still maybe a 0.1 second margin of error with the cast bar, so make sure to get out of the way when playing with your party. )

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Currently in accepted bugs: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29

I don't have a link but adjustments were made at the end of beta to improve server responsiveness. If anyone can provide a link or patch notes please!

Sorry if you had already seen these, just passing on what we know at present. Are they planning any further improvements? No idea.

It's not just titan but thats where it's most apparently.
On Garuda HM when your the tank dodging her slips its 50/50 as well, i can stand on her toes to be cautious, run threw her second she starts casting it and sometimes i still get stunned its silly.

they already acknowledged it and did some adjustments but it's still not fixed, can't they hire some networking experts to program their net code/algorithm/whatever that is.

They certainly haven't given any updates since accepting it as a bug though.

Agree with the OP, thanks for the voicing my most important issue with this game. This delay ruins everything, I am sick of being yelled at as a healer even though I dodge them in time. It's definitely a game breaker.

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Originally Posted by Dano

are we giving up already? come on, voice with your wallets, if they don't fix it by the time they start collecting money then just quit the game, show that we as consumers don't want to pay to get frustrated everytime we can't dodge something we've already done so.

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The Old Republic was a WoW clone with a handful of minor tweaks, better immersion, and set in a beloved franchise. It also had sluggish, unresponsive combat. Look how many people abandoned that sinking ship.

FFXIV is a WoW clone with a handful of minor tweaks, better immersion, and set in a beloved franchise. It also has sluggish, unresponsive combat.

The real question is: Will XIV fans tolerate crap core gameplay mechanics that SW fans mostly didn't put up with?

I don't get it, with MMO developers. "We're going to make a hotkey MMO. It's going to feel really familiar to WoW players. Let's put absolutely zero effort into making sure our game plays even remotely as fluidly as our aging competitor." How do you just overlook client responsiveness when you are making a game that is WoW with a fresher coat of paint on it? Even TSW and Defiance have better server/client sync than XIV: Arrrr and I'm pretty sure that the Funcom and Trion staff combined adds up to five people and a potato at this point.

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The real question is: Will XIV fans tolerate crap core gameplay mechanics that SW fans mostly didn't put up with?

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They did tolerate ff14 1.0 so I think they will do it.
Besides one of the most popular topics is about cat butts, it sums it all up.

One man's trash is another man's treasure I suppose.


I think the average mmo player is going to get fed up with the delays and clunky gameplay.

White knights will come in and take the bullets for ARR even when stating problems as obvious as this. I've played other MMOs with MS close to 400 (from overseas) and have never had any issue. In ARR my ms is 90 and it feels like it 9000. Seriously, you can't even be on interruption and do you rotation. If you do anything else, chances are it won't register. I remember interrupt duty for rogues in WoW. It worked perfectly and instantly.

Bad engine? Bad netcode?

Dunno. But it makes the game less fun, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

They did tolerate ff14 1.0 so I think they will do it.
Besides one of the most popular topics is about cat butts, it sums it all up.
...

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One thing that surprised me was that there was a thread on the beta forums about this problem. It was one of the hottest topics in general and when it got more than 1500 likes it prompted the response from Yoshi.

When this thread started gaining attention I thought we would see the same thing.

Currently this thread has more than 21000 views and 135 likes. You could conclude that over 90% of the people who thought this was a problem in beta are now happy with the current state of the game (135/1500 = 9% still feel this is a problem).

Are the number of people who feel this is a serious issue really that small? It would seem that way.

I was reading the comments at massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/09...ales/#comments

The problem of lag was raised and a number of people said they had not seen this problem and therefore it must be at the players end: bad computer, bad internet etc etc. - no one mentioned that this is a known bug.

It's hard not to feel that any hope for improvement is gone, it does not seem to be very important to most people. If it's not important to most of the player-base then why would SE devote any time to addressing it?

If this was a free to play game, and they still not fix it yet then I can understand why, But this is a PAY to PLAY game :(, am paying monthly for this so I expect they need to find a way to fix the god-damn problem. Meh 17 free days left, if SE still not fix it or give us an update when/how they will fix it, pretty good chance I wont subscribe.

You're all bad, and should be feel bad.

so far the way to advoide that is when you run out of aoe, you have to do a skill and then cancel it, it is not 100% but it would reduce the % you get hit after get out, technical it is the same as when you are inside the cone and do a instant cast while run out, you ll get hit by the aoe. The situation atm is better than 1.0

With the way the lag is it is VERY hard to play from Australia. I've never had this much lag since back when I played EQ on Dial-up, and even that was more responsive. All the other current MMO's I play I get ~200ms ping and generally pretty solid response when I use any abilities, this game, not so much. I did Ifrit earlier, I was literally waiting for the AOE and running *the* instant straight out of it, and even when i was over a body length away from the aoe I'd still get hit 50% of the time. I'm willing to give a little slack since these servers are slightly further away (in Montreal apparently?) rather than in San Francisco like, for example, WoW. But as things are, it's going to be difficult for me to play end game stuff. Which makes me a sad sad kitty, since when I've played on East Coast servers in other MMOs I've not had these problems.

Please improve the net code somehow.

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Originally Posted by KimimiAvesta

The most irritating thing about this for me is that it makes me (and everyone else who suffers) look like bad players! The "But I *did* dodge it!" excuse sounds terribly lame... but it's true ~_~

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Oh god... I know that feeling... and as white mage it's a pure bully... I blame myself already on a mistake who's simply not mine... and it's depressing. Add your team insulting you and this is the worse. I would like an apologize from SE for the constant pressure it puts on people and to have to swallow sarcasm and comment that we have to go through from other players as they don't even give a damn about knowing the truth... Game should be fun and challenging... Not a stupid lottery ticket...
REFRESH THE DAMN POSITION FASTER

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Originally Posted by Moonwood

snipR

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As a tank I usually go from raging really hard/cursing in several languages to a madman's laughter when this happens.. Pretty much like the "Don't fall" titan video posted earlier. Sometimes I just soak the complaints with resignation because.. what else can i do?

Position for instanced fights should be refreshed much much faster. How much strain can it put on the server to check you position 10 times per second instead of 3 while on primals/bosses?

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The problem of lag was raised and a number of people said they had not seen this problem and therefore it must be at the players end: bad computer, bad internet etc etc. - no one mentioned that this is a known bug.

It's hard not to feel that any hope for improvement is gone, it does not seem to be very important to most people. If it's not important to most of the player-base then why would SE devote any time to addressing it?

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Technically speaking it is your connection.
They set the play ground, which is that we all play with 300 ms.
The fact you might have 100 to 150 ms is 'your own problem'.


Simply put if you sub for this game, you consider this to be acceptable.
If the amount of people is large enough there is no reason SE is going to bother fixing their servers.
Since it's a company that doesn't aim to be the best, but just good enough.

Other companies use a different way of coding since by removing the 300ms lag from people they don't notice the server spikes much.
Add some proper latency masking and for you it all feels instant.
What happens here is no different than releasing a MMORPG with such high system requirements that most people can't play it and say 'get a better computer'.

The only difference is that getting a new rig is more doable than decreasing your ping with servers in Canada, it's not going to happen in most cases.


I think after that beta topic being silenced by SE it was pretty clear that they aren't interested in fixing it.
Yes Yoshi did made that post but nothing changed.

Could the problem everyone is having be with hardware lag? Lag from low fps looks exactly the same as internet lag, and can sometimes be mistaken for internet lag.

They should get the lads over at Eidos Montreal to have a look at the server for them as they made the multiplayer aspect of Tomb Raider and that was buttery smooth

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Originally Posted by RightMSJ

Could the problem everyone is having be with hardware lag? Lag from low fps looks exactly the same as internet lag, and can sometimes be mistaken for internet lag.

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No, both myself and others here run the game smoothly but still suffer from the issue

Yeah that lag is really starting to get to me. Especially the freezing for 5-8 sec and just hoping I am not in an aoe.

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Originally Posted by Dano

the position checks and latency in this game is horrible, it's not designed for players having more than a few ms of latency.

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pretty much this, i bet it works great plugged into the same lan as the server, no thought was given to non local latency

This issue needs to stay at the top of the forums. It is killing many peoples enjoyment of the game. Personally it is driving me nuts. I have raided in virtually every major MMO in the past 13 years. I have never ever had problems avoiding telegraphed attacks in games that had this mechanic. However even last night tanking Dhorme Chimera for example I couldn't avoid some of the attacks to save my life. I was out of the breath attacks for a good half second or more before they finished casting and still got hit. I get about 100ms ping from my location to the data center, which while not amazing, it is not that bad either. It is what is to be expected when you have only one data center for the entire continental US. This has to be compensated for, either in a slight increase in cast times or better server location checks. I am already on optical fiber internet, I can't get anything better and in other games it has served me just fine and I have been considered one of the better players in all of my raid groups. Here in FFXIV I feel like a failure due to the way this game handles things. This needs to be fixed.