Its happened :/ - resorted to new character for Gil.

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Originally Posted by Sadique

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If playing the game is boring to you, I don't understand why you play. That's the game.

If SE gives each player 10k/day, the economy will inflate, and everything will then be too expensive on the Market Boards, and you'll be here whining about THAT.

Craft 1 99 stack of leather on your LW, and you'll have 3 days worth of repair bills.

luckily i have eveything at 50. sadly i cant repair other peoples craft no any longer horde DM's from instance fights or gatherings. i do how ever lol at people saying lvl a craft to make gil.. yes we can make gil by crafting but even then your gil income gets done over by total asshats who just dump a load of stuff on the ah undercutting everyone by xxx amount then the next guy does the same and so on, u cant vene break even by dumping your mass produced lvl items onto the npc's i wouldnt like to be new players trying to lvl 1/all crafts to 50 tbh, V1 was much easier even if we did have a shite tonne of mats for most synths at least you could break even at npc's.

i do think they have kinda broken the influx of gil into the game personally, no where near as easy to make the gil of V1 imo atm with so many low players flooding the markets with gather/craft items

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Originally Posted by Sadique

Can you please direct me to the instructions from the developers that explains how this game is meant to be played? And you got 570k from crafting, or from selling things on the market?.

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lol, people used to have to figure this out on thier own. maybe people shouldnt have triex to lvl to 50 without figuring out the game first lol.

All in all, we can all agree that to make money for your repair is going to take a lot of effort or smart marketing. I think that part is fine.
The economy in the game is going to decline eventually though, Legacy servers won't notice it in a long time, but new ones will eventually.

Don't forget that dying only lowers durability by 2%. You'd have to die 50 times to fully break your gear and I would be very surprised if you could do that in a 90 min dungeon.
I can see the issue of people wanting to only do dungeons and still be able to afford repair bills, but this game just sadly won't be able to give you that.

The game is relatively new and I'm pretty sure SE will add more gil fountains into the game with new content patches. There has already been talk about daily quests (not leves) so we'll just have to wait and see.


PS. Spoken by a new person to the game playing on a Legacy server. I know the issues of gil earnings very well.

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Originally Posted by Ryuni

Don't forget that dying only lowers durability by 2%. You'd have to die 50 times to fully break your gear and I would be very surprised if you could do that in a 90 min dungeon.
l.

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you also lose 1% every 2-3 mobs you kill in case you did not know.

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Originally Posted by Sadique

you also lose 1% every 2-3 mobs you kill in case you did not know.

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I was trying to point it at sacrifice runs and primal fights. If you get a kill on a primal fight you're good :)

Right now most of this issue with Gil just sounds like whining to me, I mean my god the game has actually been out for 2 weeks today. Sounds like a whole lota ppl need to stop this rush for for there end game bling and flesh out their character and figure out how to make gil. If the repair bills are really that high then maybe take a break and do something else.

What a waste of this great game, beautiful world and story line to just run the same dungeon over and over again and then complain it is costing to much and u cant make gil. Even legacy players with all lvl 50 still have the story lines and quest for each job to experiance and complete.

My net worth has more than doubled since early access, so I don't think its the game. I think older players need to adjust and re-evaluate play style, this is not version 1.0. Why not try spending some of the effort you put into running those dungeons into making gil.

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Originally Posted by Doctor-

I decided to make alts to sustain me some fat checks until this issue is fixed....

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How do you send the money from your alt to your main? Cause it would sure help me to cover some AH fees.

I haven't had any gil issues so far since I leveled monk to 50 but also leveled leatherworker to 50 quickly afterwards.

I'm still concerned though, because pretty much ALL of my gil comes from other players. Once you're done questing, the gil rewards from leves and FATEs amount to an extremely small income.

So...what happens when the number of new players dwindles and the vast majority of people are raiding?

I'm doing great right now, making an easy 100k daily in profits off the AH by just taking a few minutes out of my day to craft 3-4 things, but I'm not sure what's going to happen when no one can afford to buy anything I sell.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you have limited playtime, you shouldn't be breaking your gear so fast. If you have time to break your gear you have time to level a crafter.

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A game should encourage people to play in a way that's enjoyable to them. Just because you can level a crafting class does not mean you should be required to. This is an MMO, and a great deal of people play MMOs for the dungeon and raid crawling, not to sit all by their lonesome and HQ a bunch of stuff.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

A game should encourage people to play in a way that's enjoyable to them. Just because you can level a crafting class does not mean you should be required to. This is an MMO, and a great deal of people play MMOs for the dungeon and raid crawling, not to sit all by their lonesome and HQ a bunch of stuff.

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By your logic then everyone should start at lvl 50 and there is no need to level up. Just go directly to end game. Why don't people just go buy a fully levelled account with couple million gil. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

A game should encourage people to play in a way that's enjoyable to them. Just because you can level a crafting class does not mean you should be required to. This is an MMO, and a great deal of people play MMOs for the dungeon and raid crawling, not to sit all by their lonesome and HQ a bunch of stuff.

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I 100% agree.

People are missing the point. If everyone levels their crafting up, who are they to sell to? Selling and buying on the market does not in no way introduce gil to the economy and in fact removes a little bit every time a transaction is made.

If I want to grind mobs for the gil, that should be an option. I'm not hurting for gil right now but I do not find crafting enjoyable and don't think I should be pigeonholed into doing it. I'm not saying there is "zero" income at 50, but the amount you get from fates, leves and such is extremely small. Level 1 quests reward more gil than a level 45-50 fate, tell me that isn't ridiculous?

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Originally Posted by e90guy

By your logic then everyone should start at lvl 50 and there is no need to level up. Just go directly to end game. Why don't people just go buy a fully levelled account with couple million gil. Problem solved.

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Have you even read the completely valid concerns that folks have posted? Yes, right now working the market can be indeed profitable. But doing dungeons and whatnot, results in a net loss. There has to be some way for gil to be introduced into the economy. I'm not saying they should literally throw gil at you, but right now if I do not enjoy crafting, it is more profitable to make a second character, level it up since I make more gil leveling characters than focusing on the one I want to play and that should never be the case.

I'm right here with the OP. I leveled miner to 43 - NOTHING is selling, even when I set the prices crazy cheap. That doesn't generate new gil though, only takes it from one player to me and sends 5% into the void. I've leveled goldsmith to 31, and sold a few things. I was at 50k, back up to 80k, back down to 49k not even 12 hours later. This game doesn't let you generate gil enough to sustain yourself. If items were actually sellable to a vendor I could actually make some profit.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1232119

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Originally Posted by Tristaris

Have you even read the completely valid concerns that folks have posted? Yes, right now working the market can be indeed profitable. But doing dungeons and whatnot, results in a net loss. There has to be some way for gil to be introduced into the economy. I'm not saying they should literally throw gil at you, but right now if I do not enjoy crafting, it is more profitable to make a second character, level it up since I make more gil leveling characters than focusing on the one I want to play and that should never be the case.

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I understood your point about the current economy and only SE knows whether there is a net inflow or outflow of gil. What I have problem is people don't want to "work" to get what they want. "Work" in this game means doing FATE/levequests to earn enough gil to sustain your other activities. You may have to "work" 2-3 days to run 1 dungeon if you are not good at making gil.

There are a lot of predictions and threats that the sky is going to fall.... This is not the first ever mmo, there is nothing to fix except maybe the way people rush to the end like someone buying a new BMW they can't afford and then getting upset because they have no gil to buy the gas to drive it. You have to get a job to make the gil to support your fancy new car. If you rushers all go broke and leave the game then thats what you choose to do, not SE. The world isn't going to end and you may find that working to pay your bills has it's own benefits ; )

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1232119

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Because there's plenty of people that -won't- click the link and read, the Devs have stated they will reduce the cost of repairs and dark matter for higher level'd players.

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Originally Posted by e90guy

I understood your point about the current economy and only SE knows whether there is a net inflow or outflow of gil. What I have problem is people don't want to "work" to get what they want. "Work" in this game means doing FATE/levequests to earn enough gil to sustain your other activities. You may have to "work" 2-3 days to run 1 dungeon if you are not good at making gil.

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Oh, I'm right there with you that it should take a little effort, and I am not disagreeing. I would not mind if they did give a slight increase to the amount of gil gain in FATE's and levequests though. I don't think crafting should be a requirement of generating gil however. Activities on my main class should be able to cover her own way though I do think.

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Originally Posted by e90guy

I understood your point about the current economy and only SE knows whether there is a net inflow or outflow of gil. What I have problem is people don't want to "work" to get what they want. "Work" in this game means doing FATE/levequests to earn enough gil to sustain your other activities. You may have to "work" 2-3 days to run 1 dungeon if you are not good at making gil.

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I'm a bit baffled as to how you don't see a problem with having to "work 2-3 days to run 1 dungeon". You should be able to fund what you want to do by doing what you want to do, simple as that. Running a dungeon should be able fund running more dungeons. Crafting should be able to fund more crafting. And so on.

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Originally Posted by Tristaris

I 100% agree.

People are missing the point. If everyone levels their crafting up, who are they to sell to? Selling and buying on the market does not in no way introduce gil to the economy and in fact removes a little bit every time a transaction is made.

If I want to grind mobs for the gil, that should be an option. I'm not hurting for gil right now but I do not find crafting enjoyable and don't think I should be pigeonholed into doing it. I'm not saying there is "zero" income at 50, but the amount you get from fates, leves and such is extremely small. Level 1 quests reward more gil than a level 45-50 fate, tell me that isn't ridiculous?

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Then you should kill mobs that drop items and sell them on the market. We used to do this in vanilla wow and in FFXI. If you don't want to craft, that's fine.. then farm items to sell to crafter's and make money!

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Originally Posted by e90guy

I understood your point about the current economy and only SE knows whether there is a net inflow or outflow of gil. What I have problem is people don't want to "work" to get what they want. "Work" in this game means doing FATE/levequests to earn enough gil to sustain your other activities. You may have to "work" 2-3 days to run 1 dungeon if you are not good at making gil.

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I think I speak for everyone when I say you are not thinking straight. This is a video game. You should never have to WORK. You should have fun. Working for 2-3 days to run ONE dungeon? Are you out of your mind? Running dungeons should provide enough gil to run another, and another, as long as you are successful.

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Originally Posted by Doctor-

Gathering and Crafting is not making money its taking some one else gil from the market which if your on a new server is running out unless another 2k influx of players join .........

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ORLY? Then how come I have 100k from Crafting Leves and Harvesting Leves alone on my alt? You are NOT utilizing all the possibilities in-game. Stop your whining.

I mean all you guys are sounding like is this: "I don't have piss easy, piss boring kill xx amount of y daily quests like in WoW in which I can easily get gold that destroys the game economy."

People who fate spam to 50 have no money at 50, news. At 11.


I'll bet these are the same people who are jobless with art degrees, whining at bussiness owners about how they are broke.

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Originally Posted by Cami

Then you should kill mobs that drop items and sell them on the market. We used to do this in vanilla wow and in FFXI. If you don't want to craft, that's fine.. then farm items to sell to crafter's and make money!

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Too much work for many people in this game because they only want to run dungeon day after day. Most players from FFXI are willing to put more effort to get what they want.

[QUOTE=I'm a bit baffled as to how you don't see a problem with having to "work 2-3 days to run 1 dungeon". You should be able to fund what you want to do by doing what you want to do, simple as that. Running a dungeon should be able fund running more dungeons. Crafting should be able to fund more crafting. And so on. [/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by WiiTee

ORLY? Then how come I have 100k from Crafting Leves and Harvesting Leves alone on my alt? You are NOT utilizing all the possibilities in-game. Stop your whining

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Craft gear > do 6 leve quests > make 3k a day. Repair gear for 5k. Net loss. Try again. There are some of us who do every single leve every day are are STILL losing money.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

Craft gear > do 6 leve quests > make 3k a day. Repair gear for 5k. Net loss. Try again. There are some of us who do every single leve every day are are STILL losing money.

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Farm hides for 1 hour .. sell on market... PROFIT.

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Originally Posted by Cami

Farm hides for 1 hour .. sell on market... PROFIT.

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The point of this all is creation of gil vs destruction. 3k is created by npcs in this example and 5k is destroyed by repairs. If you farm hides and sell on the market, guess what? 0 gil created and the % taken out via market taxes is destroyed.

The lack of reading comprehension in these threads is going to give me a brain aneurysm...

You can easily make 100k+ a day harvesting and selling to the market, but you know how much gil that CREATES? Nothing! you are destroying gil per each transation on the markets while putting nothing back in... I'm going to avoid these from now on. My head hurts.

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Originally Posted by Cami

Then you should kill mobs that drop items and sell them on the market. We used to do this in vanilla wow and in FFXI. If you don't want to craft, that's fine.. then farm items to sell to crafter's and make money!

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Tell me, how does this add money to the economy again? I'm not saying I'm unwilling to do anything for gil, nor am I saying I am in desperate need of gil.

I'm saying outside of quests that are non-repeatable, there is very little income coming in.

Selling, and buying on the market does not introduce gil into the economy, and in fact takes it away from the server economy as a whole.

Since ppl still can't click on links or read the nice quick post by typelethyl I'll copy paste it here, and even mark it for you...

EDIT : Official post by Camate is up here - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1232837

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware that there are times when you cannot participate in content so easily and without worry, and I’d like to let you know future countermeasures we have planned to address this.

1. Significantly reduce repair fees and the cost of dark matter
   While the focus will be placed on high-levels, we will be significantly lowering the overall fees for repair and the cost of dark matter.
   
   
2. Addition of item level requirements for high-level dungeon participation
   We'll be adding a requirement to participate in high-level dungeons and hard mode primal battles that will make it so you need to have equipment above a certain item level equipped to participate. To coincide with this, we will be implementing a system that will display the average item level for your gear in the character window.
   
   
3. Addition of a party recruitment window
   We'll be implementing a bulletin board type of system where you can recruit party members that are only on your world. When recruiting, you can indicate the dungeon you would like to do, the roles you are looking to recruit, the levels, etc. (We'll be announcing the details soon.)

We will be addressing #1 after the maintenance tomorrow, and #2 and #3 will be implemented after patch 2.1.

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Rep Post 09/10/13 Changes to repair costs next maint, item level requirement, own world party invite board post 2.1

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Originally Posted by Lastygalle

こんにちは。
開発チームでも現在、気軽にコンテンツに参加できない場合があることを認識しています。そのための今後の対策をお伝えできる範囲でお知らせします。
Hello,
Currently the dev team also knows that there are times you can’t easily join contents, please let me explain how we are going to address this matter.

1. 修理費用およびダークマターの価格の大幅な値下げ
   Greatly lowering repair costs and Dark Matter prices.
   
   高レベル帯に重点を置きつつ、全般的に修理費用およびダークマターの価格を大幅に下げます。
   We will greatly lower the overall repair costs and dark matter prices while emphasising high level.
   
   
2. 高レベルダンジョンなどの参加条件にアイテムレベルを追加
   Add item level requirement for participation for high level dungeons.
   
   
   高レベル向けのインスタンスダンジョンおよび蛮神戦などに参加する際、一定以上のアイテムレベルを持った装備品を装備していることが条件として追加されます。これに伴い、キャラクターウィンドウに装備品のアイテムレベルの平均値を表示する仕組みを実装します。
   We will be adding a minimum gear item level requirement when participating in high level instanced dungeons or primal battles, We will be adding a feature which shows the characters average gear item level in the character window.
3. パーティ募集ウィンドウの追加
   Adding a party invitation window
   
   
   自分のいるワールド限定でパーティを募集できる掲示板のような仕組みを導入します。募集の際には希望するダンジョン名や募集したいロール、レベルなどを登録することができます。
   (詳細仕様は後日公開をお待ちください)
   We will be implementing a feature similar to a bulletin board where you can request for party members with players in your own world. When requesting, you will be able to put the dungeon name, role, level information.
   (Detailed information to follow at a later time.)

1については9月12日(木)のメンテナンス後、2と3についてはパッチ2.1以降に実装する予定です。
First one will be implemented in 9/12’s (JST) maintenance, for 2&3 these are planned to be released post 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Riddik

Lol only NA... Print more money that fixes economies. This activity does not make me money, welfare system please!

Wow. Crack me up.

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Did you read some of the legitimate responses, or did you just come here to spew full on retard and offer absolutely nothing constructive again?

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Originally Posted by Razzle

I don't like how that works out. And therefore I request SE to change it.

Killing mobs mindlessly in order to be able to repair my gear and play the game - No thanks.

How I see it - running the dungeon should provide us with a minimal income that lets us at the very least repair our gear, without forcing us to do such BORING tasks like farming or crafting.

If you wanted to get rich - sure, go and farm. But having to do it in order to just repair my gear? That is a bad idea IMO.

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I agreed with you for a little because some of you logic made sense. You can't sell gear and repair items to people with no money but as i kept reading and looking into your logic it seems you just want someone to hand you a sack of gil. You don't want to fight for drops that you can sell and you don't want to craft to make gil… Well man… it seems to me that you don't want to play the game

I played the "farm mobs for days to afford the costs of running a single dungeon" game in TERA. It was horrible. I do not wish to see that in ARR.

I think 1 complete dungeon should = a full repair bill or repair ticket that way we do not gain any extra gold, but enough to sustain us to keep running dungeons. I feel this would be perfectly fair.
Now if I want to buy things I can understand the requirement to have to go farm/ craft to make gil.

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Originally Posted by Psyotix

I think 1 complete dungeon should = a full repair bill or repair ticket that way we do not gain any extra gold, but enough to sustain us to keep running dungeons. I feel this would be perfectly fair.
Now if I want to buy things I can understand the requirement to have to go farm/ craft to make gil.

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at that rate why have armor break at all. The only death penalty in this game is durability loss, if anything they should remove durability loss from fighting, or greatly reduce it, and greatly increase loss for death. Would solve two problems really, repairs for running dungeons well, and speedrunners.

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Originally Posted by Sadique

so because you dont like combat, you should be able to level a combat class a different way? Im not sure how that relates to wanting to be able to support your class without being forced into leveling another class. A person shouldnt be forced to level a DoL/DoH so that they can enjoy their DoW/DoM.

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Oh, I love the combat; I was just making a point!

By your logic, if someone enjoys DoH and DoL, why should they be forced to play DoW or DoM to enjoy the story?

I have to say reading through this thread, its painfully obvious that some people have no business going near macro-economic models or discussing them.

That said, I do find it ironic.. that in trying to prevent them... this game has essentially created a Gil Sellers paradise.

With the obvious Gil generating problems oncoming (or already here depending on who you are) SE has essentially made it that much more appealing to use them.

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Originally Posted by Gramis

I agreed with you for a little because some of you logic made sense. You can't sell gear and repair items to people win no money but as i kept reading and looking into your logic it seems you just want someone to hand you a sack of gil. You don't want to fight for drops that you can sell and you don't want to craft to make gil… Well man… it seems to me that you don't want to play the game

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Well yeah, I enjoy a part of the game. Not all of it. The battle part.

I couldn't care less about economy, crafting or gathering.

Will I leave the game because of that? No. I enjoy the battle gameplay.

Anyway I'm off this thread now I got what i wanted on tomorrow's maint XD

And if you think being able to repair my gear equals a "sac of gil handed to me" then it's your logic that seems weird to me.

I didn't ask to be rich, I agree to be rich people should farm, craft and gather. But to be able to repair gear - they should not.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Well yeah, I enjoy a part of the game. Not all of it. The battle part.

I couldn't care less about economy, crafting or gathering.

Will I leave the game because of that? No. I enjoy the battle gameplay.

Anyway I'm off this thread now I got what i wanted on tomorrow's maint XD

And if you think being able to repair my gear equals a "sac of gil handed to me" then it's your logic that seems weird to me.

I didn't ask to be rich, I agree to be rich people should farm, craft and gather. But to be able to repair gear - they should not.

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Well I'm not suggesting you quit the game. I just question your motivation as a player. You don't seem to want to do anything to sustain yourself in the game and uncompromisingly so (no craft, no gathering, no farming) So… if you don't want to do anything that ensures you can continue to play combat classes; are you sure you want to play this game?

It's too bad you didn't have the good sense to do Guildhest and Leves. You can make 1-2k+ each Guildhest and 2k+ from Leves. You no doubt have 100 saved up, so that's easily 200k gil right there.