For Shame, Mr. Yoshida - Being a Healer in 2026

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

There is content in this game where healers worry about piety. There are piety sets made for ultimate prog for example and they are definitely needed at first.

Some healers struggled in FRU because they were using parsing bis which used a crafted ring to avoid piety and they and the party were melting.

The content is there, its just not the content you want to do.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Eh still piety is just a deadweight stat. Look at all the fru bis sheets.

FOr Sge https://xivgear.app/?page=sl|326bbcc...7-c608eeba192e

For Sch https://xivgear.app/?page=sl%7c6bb5f...0-9b50b80e900e

For Whm oh look https://xivgear.app/?page=sl|b170c30...7-fc87ec0195d8

Piety stat gain is the 3rd worst of all the stat for such a measly gain of 1 extra mp per 18/19 piety on materia.

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Piety since the start of Shb has been a dead stat. Before that time, piety was actually needed. (It also used to increase total MP it was common to see healers with over 12k MP) Any competent healer will get by with passive piety nowadays. If you're having issues, that's skill based issues. Learn your kit. A healer should really never run out of mana no matter the piety given our current toolkit... Unless you're cure III spamming or picking up a plethora of bodies off the floor...

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

Its not about managing your mits. Look at P1 FRU for example with the NA FRU mit but good plan WAR simply doesn't have enough mit to survive the second powder mark trail without buddy mit from a co-tank because thrill does not equal camouflage or oblation.

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I always babysit WAR players in FRU with aqua veil + divine benison, or they have a high chance of melting even with shared mit from co-tank. I've seen it happen a lot of times..lol.

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

There is content in this game where healers worry about piety. There are piety sets made for ultimate prog for example and they are definitely needed at first.

Some healers struggled in FRU because they were using parsing bis which used a crafted ring to avoid piety and they and the party were melting.

The content is there, its just not the content you want to do.

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There is a very good reason why the crafted entry-level gear is so loaded with piety. It's because it's much more beneficial to run it during progs. I remember in FRU I had to switch around the healing plan to have Planetary Indulgence available to spam Medica 1 during Burnished Glory 2 because I could not keep up spamming Cure III, especially if people are late with mit, that bleed becomes absolutely brutal, doing 60-70% HP/ tick, which happens.. a LOT.

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Originally Posted by Uzephi

Over healing in a time long lost in xiv actually was detrimental and could lead to mana issues. You bringing up OH of 50% is "just how WHM works" is proof enough this development team has zero idea how to make efficient healers. Did you explain why assize is used on CD? Oh, right, because we aren't healers, just support DPS.

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Yeah, it's how it works, because aside from Asize you also have to manage your lillies not overcapping, which also goes in OH if people are not missing a lot of HP.
Also, OH can happen for various reasons. Like I apply Medica 2/3 to regen because it's enough downtime and I need to preserve lillies for the next set of incoming dmg, and the co-healer panics and uses an instant heal. Of course, the remaining of my Medica 2/3 will go into OH.
Again, OH is the last metric you want to look at. Unless the healer is a heal bot, you should not even take it into account.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I would love to hear from yoshi p now considering this this say this all the way back in stormblood. Souce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5la_nyC5BO0
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Healers not expected to deal damage has not been a thing for a long time, it's pointless to even mention it. Healers are very much expected to deal dmg. Not long ago I had to switch from AST to WHM while doing E12s because we kept enraging at 0.1% in Phase 1..LOL.

Now I am doing P4s, and we struggle with Enrage because the fight is really tight on dps while doing it MINE.

Please understand I thought his statement was just an example being utterly clueless and idiotic of the healer situation. I was there when gordias savage destroyed the raid scene with how tune those fights and those fights put what you're doing to shame. He also made this statement after that as well. Maybe they have finally realized that they can't design fights that are heal checks ala Anub'arak from WotLK. I only bring that statement is because yoshi-p tries to bring it up every time that he could.

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

Its not about managing your mits. Look at P1 FRU for example with the NA FRU mit but good plan WAR simply doesn't have enough mit to survive the second powder mark trail without buddy mit from a co-tank because thrill does not equal camouflage or oblation.

WAR is great in aoe but has a single target trade off and what you are suggesting will upset the mit balance of tanks. If they delete short cooldowns and self sustain tomorrow high end content becomes an issue. You need short cooldowns and self heals so the healers can pump enough dps to meet the check.

How would you have self sustain lowered in dungeons without taking away from the needed mit for high end?

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By changing the SelfHeals (Equilibrium, Bloodwhetting, Shake's heal+HOT) into Self-Barriers of equal potency. Now as a WAR, instead of a 1200p Heal (plus 1000p of HOT) on a 60s CD with Equilibrium, you have a 1200p Barrier (with 5 Haima-style stacks of 200p Barrier) on a 60s CD. Damnation's HOT becomes 5 stacks of Barrier. Shake's Barrier is stronger (because the Heal is converted into a Barrier), and its HOT instead acts like Panhaima, so it still helps against DOTs/multihits. Bloodwhetting's heal (now a Barrier) would be strengthened per enemy hit, and wouldn't be limited to your HP bar's length, so instead of 'fully heal your 280k HP back per GCD', it'd become more like... 'give yourself a 400k Barrier per GCD'. In Single Target, BW would provide 1600p total Barrier (400p on use, 400p per GCD), compared to the current BW where some of the potency might be lost to Overheal. Far more thematic to the WAR Identity IMO, to change from 'you are so angry you heal yourself by hitting the enemy', to 'you are so angry you do not feel the pain (and therefore take less, or even zero, damage)'

Addresses both the issue of 'Healers don't get to heal', AND it gives you more tools to reduce damage with. And no, it's not a nerf, the potencies would be 1:1. 'Job effectiveness varies based on player skill level' and all that. If anything, in the hands of a skilled player, it's a sizeable buff, considering that WAR mits apparently struggle compared to other Tanks in the highest-end content

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I honestly still fail to see how something like Bloodwhetting being nerfed to only heal you per weaponskill use rather than per enemy hit would suddenly make WAR bad and unusable in savage.

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If it were a Barrier instead of a Heal (as per above), it'd be fine to stay as 'per enemy'. Barriers have a Duration, HP doesn't

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If it were a Barrier instead of a Heal (as per above), it'd be fine to stay as 'per enemy'. Barriers have a Duration, HP doesn't

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As much as I like the idea thematically and also just in general, I think this replaces the current problem with a new problem if we're taking Bloodwhetting into mind, since instead of taking away healer agency, you're just outright ignoring it altogether. For example, go look at Guardian, PLD's current 40%. That ability alone is enough to raise questions as to why they added something like that, even for raid content, to deal with damage. We have to remember that mitigation is king in XIV, and shields are essentially eHP on a timer if you think about it.

If a boss does 400k and you have a massive 200k shield, not to mention that the damage formula and decaying returns of stacked mitigation applying(First Feint/Addle/Reprisal for Final Damage, then stacked mitigation, then Shield Subtraction for actual damage) make this relatively a different issue altogether to the point that WAR would be even stronger than before, even by Tank standards. The potencies more than likely would have to go down to actually balance it, but depending on how it is I can still see WAR outperforming every tank when it comes to dungeon pulling that way, and especially in high-end.

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Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

And to healers who complain that their whole role is invalidated by tanks’ abilities, I say: go help out some less experienced players. Your services will still be needed whenever people aren’t turning in excellent play.

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If there were an easy way to do this I'd seriously consider it. Having to go to such lengths just to play your class is bad design though, even in casual content. The divide isn't centered on the line between excellent and average either. It's between playing the game semi-regularly and playing only on major patch days. Tanks barely even have to put in effort to take over the healing role and even when they're subpar the healer has excess in many forms - Kardia, Fairy - Lillies, Assize, Stars for damage healing as a side effect.

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

What I'm saying is the game doesn't need to change its design philosophy of every job is a dps to suit you because those games exist elsewhere. Its beyond entitled.

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Actual question born out of curiosity: when did you start playing XIV?

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

As a tank main. What I am saying is that tanks should not lose their self sustain or have it lowered because its completely unfair when we die to tank busters because a healer don't got it.

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Alright then let me ask this in turn: how is this fair when the party wipes to an enrage because someone else in the party didn't dps well enough? Should we give an auto rotation so that everybody deals the correct amount of damage output?
And then, because wipes still exist when someone fails a mechanic and wipes the whole raid, that's so unfair too right?

Perhaps we should play solo actually, why are we bothering with team games? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

I think your actual problem isn't about the legendary mystical curebot, but accepting that other players will do mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

Because its NORMAL CONTENT. If you want to heal more do harder content. You are literally talking about content that is designed for anyone to do so of course tanks have high sustainability to make up for the healer who is watching netflix on the side and not hitting buttons

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How about we give tank mastery and aggro tools to healers then? Or even DPS jobs? You'll still have a higher defense stat that will make you needed in "harder content", but you won't have any right to complain in NORMAL CONTENT when you get replaced by other roles and made an afterthought, because if you wanted to actually be useful, you could just do "harder content".

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Yeah, it's how it works, because aside from Asize you also have to manage your lillies not overcapping, which also goes in OH if people are not missing a lot of HP.
Also, OH can happen for various reasons. Like I apply Medica 2/3 to regen because it's enough downtime and I need to preserve lillies for the next set of incoming dmg, and the co-healer panics and uses an instant heal. Of course, the remaining of my Medica 2/3 will go into OH.
Again, OH is the last metric you want to look at. Unless the healer is a heal bot, you should not even take it into account.

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8mil overheal in a single fight... And yet people wonder why healers want things fixed. Splash over from hots or coheal sniping shouldn't amount to over healing the health of a player 24x, and making sure you don't 'overcap' because there isn't enough damage to justify the throughput they give us.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Actual question born out of curiosity: when did you start playing XIV?



Alright then let me ask this in turn: how is this fair when the party wipes to an enrage because someone else in the party didn't dps well enough? Should we give an auto rotation so that everybody deals the correct amount of damage output?
And then, because wipes still exist when someone fails a mechanic and wipes the whole raid, that's so unfair too right?

Perhaps we should play solo actually, why are we bothering with team games? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

I think your actual problem isn't about the legendary mystical curebot, but accepting that other players will do mistakes.



How about we give tank mastery and aggro tools to healers then? Or even DPS jobs? You'll still have a higher defense stat that will make you needed in "harder content", but you won't have any right to complain in NORMAL CONTENT when you get replaced by other roles and made an afterthought, because if you wanted to actually be useful, you could just do "harder content".

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Yes FF14 should have an auto or one button rotation option like WoW. Make it do less dps overall but compensate for extreme non button pushing in group content

Also I couldn't care less if I'm useful in normal content, roulettes are FF14 jury duty for tomes. If i want to be engaged I fo something harder.

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

Yes FF14 should have an auto or one button rotation option like WoW. Make it do less dps overall but compensate for extreme non button pushing in group content

Also I couldn't care less if I'm useful in normal content, roulettes are FF14 jury duty for tomes. If i want to be engaged I fo something harder.

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Vast majority of the player base is not you & doesn't do the harder cotent. The stuff they do do should be fun. You are an actual dummy if you think stuff that is supposed to keep most of the player base entertained should be boring.

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Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

Vast majority of the player base is not you & doesn't do the harder cotent. The stuff they do do should be fun. You are an actual dummy if you think stuff that is supposed to keep most of the player base entertained should be boring.

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I'm just baffled that these players complain that their content is boring refuse to try any harder. Make it make sense

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

As much as I like the idea thematically and also just in general, I think this replaces the current problem with a new problem if we're taking Bloodwhetting into mind, since instead of taking away healer agency, you're just outright ignoring it altogether. For example, go look at Guardian, PLD's current 40%. That ability alone is enough to raise questions as to why they added something like that, even for raid content, to deal with damage. We have to remember that mitigation is king in XIV, and shields are essentially eHP on a timer if you think about it.

If a boss does 400k and you have a massive 200k shield, not to mention that the damage formula and decaying returns of stacked mitigation applying(First Feint/Addle/Reprisal for Final Damage, then stacked mitigation, then Shield Subtraction for actual damage) make this relatively a different issue altogether to the point that WAR would be even stronger than before, even by Tank standards. The potencies more than likely would have to go down to actually balance it, but depending on how it is I can still see WAR outperforming every tank when it comes to dungeon pulling that way, and especially in high-end.

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It's possible that the potencies would need to be adjusted, but by adjusting them, it would mean Tank players going 'you're nerfing us!' and we know SE would never dare upset the Tank players

The BW issue you raise, I think is not an issue at all. Just as BW would block all the damage of a huge pack of mobs for... 15ish seconds? We already have that occur when a PLD or GNB invulns, or as a WHM we stun the pack with Holy. The point is not the 15ish seconds that the Tank is invulnerable, it's the 10s where they are not. If they no longer have tools in their kit that restore their HP so easily, then any damage they take is 'permanent' in a sense (until a Healer heals it hack). Bloodwhetting is not OP just because it restores the entire HP bar, it's also partially because once recovered, that HP is 'permanent' until it's removed by more damage

Plus, your example (400k damage from boss, 200k shield) would be very unlikely to ever occur, because BW would give you a 200k Barrier if you hit... I think it'd be like 10+ mobs? That doesn't tend to occur in higher-end content where a 400k hit is going to threaten the Tank. In a single target boss fight, you'd get a Barrier of, I'd estimate 20k per GCD used (my Tanks are in full Crafted still). Yes, you could theoretically 'compile' the effect by using multiple GCDs in the leadup to an enemy attack, but it'd still only total up to like 80k (including the initial Stem the Tide Barrier), And TBN on DRK is around 70k currently, so I don't expect it to be a problem, since it would require time to setup, the boss could eat the Barrier with an autoattack, etc. Equilibrium would also behave sort of similarly to a TBN, albeit a bit weaker, and with a far longer CD. Only place that comes to mind as 'this would be too strong' is maybe Sugar Riot's add phase (hitting 5 Mu's at once, plus boss), but even then, I think it'd be counterbalanced by the moments where you don't have the Barrier active, and the fact that the Healer would be entirely responsible (instead of only partially) for the HP restoration

I think, out of all of the Tanks, PLD would maybe be the one that comes out 'on top' for Dungeons. 4 stacks of 250p Barrier (replacing Sheltron HOT), plus more 400p Barriers via Blade combo/Confiteor, plus a 400p Barrier for each Holy Spirit/Circle used, plus the ability to Block... It'd be a more 'sustained' mitigation through the pull, vs the WAR who would, rather fittingly actually, blow their load at the start, get a MASSIVE Barrier via Bloodwhetting+AOE GCDs and take no damage for a while (probably 15-18s, depending on Barrier duration), then find themselves a little exposed when the Barrier duration expires (at which point they'd need to cover the gap with something else like Damnation, Equilibrium, etc). Though GNB could also be a surprise contender, 900p Barrier from HOC, and 300p x 6 from Aurora with 2 charges

Lastly, Barriers having a duration introduces a new skill cap for the Role. Take a PLD's Sheltron, if the HOT from it is instead made to be 4 stacks of 250p Barrier, with a duration of 12s, then a second use 5s later could add another 4 stacks, and reset the duration of the Barrier. By changing the timing of when you use Sheltron that second time from 5s later, to say 10s later, you could extend your Barrier coverage and potentially mitigate more damage overall



Edit: Actually, I guess it'd maybe cause issues regarding the difficulty of soloing Deep Dungeons, since you'd have Barriers and a potent HOT (the potion) instead of the current 'pure HPS and also a HOT'

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

I'm just baffled that these players complain that their content is boring refuse to try any harder. Make it make sense

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I have! I have literally already said in this very thread that i have! Most recently I blind progged M1 2 & 3 savage with my friends!

I shouldn't have to go to the highest difficulty content to have fun though!!!!! 99% of the game isn't Savage!

'Stop complaining, if you want your role to be more engaging, go and try the five (5) fights SE releases per EIGHT (8) months that the kits are tuned around, instead of asking for the <all of the other content in the game> to be more engaging'

Unless it's like this tier and we have a doorboss, in which case it's more like 5.5 fights per 8 months. Still, it's one of the takes of all time, absolutely hilarious/tragic in equal measure, partially because a lot of players who ask for the <all of the other content in the game> to be a bit more engaging, DO already do Savage, Ultimate, or both. But even for those that do not, why oppose making EX Roulettes a bit more engaging? The reason why some players don't do Savage or Ultimate isn't always a case of 'skill issue' or 'scared of a challenge', some can't due to scheduling for example

If some players see doing the more 'casual' content like EX Roulettes as, basically a 'chore that has to be done to cap tomes', why exactly does that content get this weird treatment of 'it's meant to be a chore (if you exceed the skill level it demands)', why can't a solution be found that makes it engaging for casual players AND hardcore raider types, so that it's NOT a chore to cap tomes via that method?

I mean, it's the take of Yoshida so I guess it follows the official line, which is even more tragic.

Unless said official line has changed since they recognized recently there was a problem in how they approached difficulty modes in the game idk.

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

I'm just baffled that these players complain that their content is boring refuse to try any harder. Make it make sense

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If only 5% (savage, Ult, etc) of the games content is engaging and the rest of the battle content you deal with more often is "boring," is it good game design?

Raises hand

I find savage healing boring which is why I dropped savage because broil spam just to mechanically press sacred soil and indom on a timer isn’t fun

So now what am I supposed to do? Ultimate? Am I now only allowed to have fun on healers in ultimate?

It’s great the list of content I’m allowed to enjoy healer on consists of maybe 2 fights per expansion but you can be damn sure tanks and DPS will move heaven and earth to maintain their fun in all content at the expense of healers because somehow “my healing in dungeons is fun don’t take it away” and “play savage if you want to have fun as a healer” somehow come out of other same people’s mouth regularly

Ultimates aren't really much different.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I mean, it's the take of Yoshida so I guess it follows the official line, which is even more tragic.

Unless said official line has changed since they recognized recently there was a problem in how they approached difficulty modes in the game idk.

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They do really have a weird, backward line of thinking.

In a vacuum, Dungeons are only fun to players that specifically enjoys 'turn off the brain' gameplay. High-ends are only fun for people who specifically loves spreadsheeting DDR mania. There's nothing left from the core job gameplays - it's not fun anymore. So now they're so hell bent on wanting to rely pulling players with a single type of content, each directly appeals to a very specific demography (like that actually work lol, people can take a look at census' new player graph and see how abysmal those numbers are. 'new player experience' my a$$).

Normally the ideal, and perhaps the logical solution to this dilemma would be funding for a better core job gameplay, so that players can have fun in any contents they choose to step into. After all, that's what we use to do everything. But instead they stretch their development cycle so wide & thin as a compensation, as they've demonstrated these past few years.

It’s the secret sauce behind why content doesn’t stick like it used to and every piece of content resorts to “why doesn’t this feel as good as (insert comparable content from old expansions)”

Because people are completely unwilling to see that on the absence of good job design and constantly changing design between expansions that kept jobs fresh content now only works when you are EXACTLY the type of person that fits a niche of content as the scalability of the jobs can no longer will the gaps

I did get to run roulettes with friends for the first time in forever this week and we accidentally queued into a dungeon with 3 dps and a healer.

Turns out you get to do a healthy balance of healing and dps without a tank, it was pretty refreshing.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Sounds fair to me that if tanks are going to insist on being off-healers, other roles should be able to off-tank, "borrowed" skills and all.

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"WHM Holy stun now works on all enemies (including bosses), and has no diminishing returns, it always applies a stun of 4s duration"

"To maintain parity between Healer Jobs, SCH's Art Of War now applies an extremely strong Slow effect for 4s (causing enemies to autoattack once per 15 seconds as long as it is maintained), AST's Gravity applies Stop for 4s, and SGE's Dyskrasia applies a 100% Blind effect for 4s"

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

"WHM Holy stun now works on all enemies (including bosses), and has no diminishing returns, it always applies a stun of 4s duration"

"To maintain parity between Healer Jobs, SCH's Art Of War now applies an extremely strong Slow effect for 4s (causing enemies to autoattack once per 15 seconds as long as it is maintained), AST's Gravity applies Stop for 4s, and SGE's Dyskrasia applies a 100% Blind effect for 4s"

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But it’s totally balanced because there was this one time in 1844 I queued in with a healer who didn’t do DPS

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But it’s totally balanced because there was this one time in 1844 I queued in with a healer who didn’t do DPS

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Which while annoying isn't nearly as bad as getting two DPS in your dungeon that do damage from 20 levels ago. Of course you can't "see" that without black magic, only extrapolate it from every trash pack taking forever. Which is why dps players not doing their job has been largely ignored, but since we're designing for convenience and turning your brain off here we should probably fool proof that as well.

Just the logical conclusion of this design philosophy after all.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I find savage healing boring which is why I dropped savage because broil spam just to mechanically press sacred soil and indom on a timer isn’t fun

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This is something "Go do harder content" people refuse to acknowledge, it seems.

Not everyone who dislikes the current healer role is someone that doesn't do harder content, there are many of us who do harder content but are still bored because of how the content is designed. Look at what's the pinnacle hardest content in the game right now (until the ultimate drops), M12S, you just stand there and spam your filler over and over again while you wait for the boss to set up their mechanics and then things happen, then you hit your cooldowns as assigned by the almighty spreadsheet, then you either just win or someone trips up the entire party and all of you hate and blacklist them.

As a healer in high-end content, you just follow the script on repeat like a robot until everyone else gets up to speed and you clear the fight, there's very few cases where you can actually save the run with a raise or a quick heal, most of the time you'll be saving the run with a healer LB (if the melee didn't already use it).

One portion of FF14 players want "solo-bility" in every content and other wants the hardcore holy trinity.

Make up our minds, Eorzeans.

I think instead of making other jobs more dependent on healing, they should just make healers less dependent on anything else by raising their DPS. Flip the table and then watch DPS and tanks complain about healers only parties lol

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Originally Posted by Ser_Arven

I'm just baffled that these players complain that their content is boring refuse to try any harder. Make it make sense

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It will never make sense because this game is in this state, because SE listened to the small, annoying minority in the forums. Also, they are just asking for EX and savage to become the norm, which in all fairness I am all for it..lol.

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Originally Posted by Uzephi

8mil overheal in a single fight... And yet people wonder why healers want things fixed. Splash over from hots or coheal sniping shouldn't amount to over healing the health of a player 24x, and making sure you don't 'overcap' because there isn't enough damage to justify the throughput they give us.

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There is nothing to fix..lol.
It's specifically intended like this so people don't have to min-max healing to the last tick. Ultimates are a LOT closer to that, and healing and mitigation need to be a lot more precise; even there, a small leeway exists.

It's a very easy concept; the lower the difficulty, the easier it is to heal, deal damage, and make mistakes. The higher you go, the less you are afforded that luxury. It's not rocket science, really.

If you want hard-hitting mechanics that require constant healing, engaging content where you have to do mechanics and engage with the content, then you are essentially asking for savage and ults + chaotic to become the norm. I am all for it, to be fair..let's go!

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Originally Posted by Diablo_Eichenwald

I think instead of making other jobs more dependent on healing, they should just make healers less dependent on anything else by raising their DPS. Flip the table and then watch DPS and tanks complain about healers only parties lol

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In SHB, WHMs started doing more damage than some of the Tanks, and the Tanks were not happy with the arrangement

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

In SHB, WHMs started doing more damage than some of the Tanks, and the Tanks were not happy with the arrangement

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Don't worry, it's still very much the case in some scenarios..lol

https://i.ibb.co/LhZ3zqwR/e12s2.png Like E12s

People are still conflating difficulty with engagement I see

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

In SHB, WHMs started doing more damage than some of the Tanks, and the Tanks were not happy with the arrangement

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I recall this. To me, the most memorable of all was PLD's Clememecy vs WHM's Cure II debacle. Mathematically speaking it was more efficient to let the PLD Clememecy than for the WHM to cast Cure II in those days. People certainly weren't fond of that, despite the actual practice being pretty rare lol.

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Originally Posted by Valence

People are still conflating difficulty with engagement I see

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There is a game out there doing this extremely well called WoW. You have 2-3 mechanics/phase, super static, super predictable, always the same, where you can turn your brain off, and also you can be the main character, being able to solo carry. As long as you have enough hours in the day, you can def play both and get the best of both worlds. No shame in that.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

There is a game out there doing this extremely well called WoW. You have 2-3 mechanics/phase, super static, super predictable, always the same, where you can turn your brain off, and also you can be the main character, being able to solo carry. As long as you have enough hours in the day, you can def play both and get the best of both worlds. No shame in that.

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I'm sorry, doing what extremely well exactly? Offering engaging gameplay no matter the difficulty mode? (I have never played wow, genuinely)

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I recall this. To me, the most memorable of all was PLD's Clememecy vs WHM's Cure II debacle. Mathematically speaking it was more efficient to let the PLD Clememecy than for the WHM to cast Cure II in those days. People certainly weren't fond of that, despite the actual practice being pretty rare lol.

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I kinda enjoyed the freeform beauty of the idea in a way. Even though it was a lot less of a problem in SB already unfortunately, being able to share the burdens of heavy MP consumption between both roles was interesting, especially considering a PLD would run out of Clemencies in a handful of casts back then.

After reading and seeing how World Of Warcraft works, I'll sadly going to say if you guys want jobs or roles to be fun any content WOW seem to be winner for that type of game. It going takes ages to see ff14 reaching that goal and the money.

https://i.ibb.co/Lz9kSHcF/RDT-202603...7432056726.png

Ima just leave this here

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

They do really have a weird, backward line of thinking.

In a vacuum, Dungeons are only fun to players that specifically enjoys 'turn off the brain' gameplay. High-ends are only fun for people who specifically loves spreadsheeting DDR mania. There's nothing left from the core job gameplays - it's not fun anymore. So now they're so hell bent on wanting to rely pulling players with a single type of content, each directly appeals to a very specific demography (like that actually work lol, people can take a look at census' new player graph and see how abysmal those numbers are. 'new player experience' my a$$).

Normally the ideal, and perhaps the logical solution to this dilemma would be funding for a better core job gameplay, so that players can have fun in any contents they choose to step into. After all, that's what we use to do everything. But instead they stretch their development cycle so wide & thin as a compensation, as they've demonstrated these past few years.

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Yeah I think you describe it pretty well. I just want to have fun where I make some nice healing saves due to the randomness in the fights catching the party offguard. This happens occasionally in dungeons, but doesn't really get to happen in high-end fights due to the spreadsheet healing design. I dislike spreadsheet healing because it doesn't feel like I'm actively engaging in the healing process on the spot. High-end fights pretty much makes everything a "if you fail the mechanic, you die", which defeats the point of giving so many healing tools itself. Many times, fights end up in a "mitigate or die" situation and "if you fail, your party is stuck until everyone gets the mechanic correct". For me, it's just going through the motions until everyone gets to the same page to clear, and while that might work for dps and tanks, it doesn't really aim at what I find fun as a healer.

Nowadays, I find myself zoning out more when the tank and dps are competent and then sometimes forget to heal from the sheer amount of times I just press the same dps button. If I don't actively throw my lilies to avoid overcapping and waste healing to use Misery, I zone out even more... I can still recover if I accidentally somehow let a tank die, but it feels kinda soulless until then. Sort of like spreadsheet healing.

The only time I feel like I'm really making some nice healing saves and have a good balance of swapping between healing and actively supporting / dpsing consistently is when I queue into PvP as a healer ... and yet PvP has everyone - from the dps to to the tanks to the healers - with the ability to heal and self sustain themselves so it's not just related to healing from tanks and dps either. I don't know what else to say about the current PvE healer design, other than it fails to deliver a satisfying healing experience regardless of difficulty level and PvP healer gameplay is much better at creating the combat medic fantasy aspect because of the randomness involved.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

After reading and seeing how World Of Warcraft works, I'll sadly going to say if you guys want jobs or roles to be fun any content WOW seem to be winner for that type of game. It going takes ages to see ff14 reaching that goal and the money.

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It will never be, because FF14 went in the opposite direction. Wow, went for messy fights but static mechanics and complex jobs vs very random, demanding fights requiring precision and execution but with simpler job sets. Both are difficult, but for completely different reasons.

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

Ima just leave this here

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What level was this?

Op was running brayflox didnt specific which version but its still insane to me square hasn't changed cure 1 into cure 2 after a level up. Actually so stupid.