Dawntrail's mediatour dungeon was already cleared without healers.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Words cannot express how infuriating this is. To not only double down on the ridiculous self-sustain tanks have, but to further step on the toes of healers by giving DPS jobs additional healing actions that are readily available every 60s is insulting. I am done defending this dev team. They deserve every piece of scrutiny they get.

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Welcome to the dark side ;)

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Originally Posted by Soliz0816

Respectfully, this is rather too soon and a bit silly. Dawntrail isn’t even out yet. You’re comparing the content we have now, to job changes and content that isn’t even out and you haven’t even played, this would be smarter if after DW released and it was the same as now but we have been told content will be harder, more stressful and that we will actually need the extra healing… please remain calm and just wait like 2-3 more weeks. I’m sure half the people in here are the ones who want to Dps more as healer anyway so like… I just don’t get it. I main AST before anyone comes for me

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we had this same situation for almost 5 years now. Since start shadowbringer when they removed the dps spells from healer and gave them more and more ogcds for healing. They told us since 5 years "wait until". Can people pls stop simping for the ff 14 team and yoshida as hard as they do now ? Pls tell me how long should i wait as a healer player ????? 8 years or better 10 ?. Its the most brain rotting role in 14 (next to summoner and war) and people still cant play it. PRESSING 2 buttons for dps is still to hard for 80 % of the people. healer veterans jump the ship and the only remaining healer player are afk cure bots that like free carries without doing anything or people that are die hard healer mains and suffer at the same time playing this role. I told myself im not doing healer main role anymore since end shadowbringer when i saw the healer job trailer and i did fall asleep watching it. still were boring as hell and i actually enjoy meele dps because they are not designed like brain rot healers.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

we had this same situation for almost 5 years now. Since start shadowbringer when they removed the dps spells from healer and gave them more and more ogcds for healing. They told us since 5 years "wait until".

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And you're still here...5 YEARS later, but sure, blame the people "simping" for ff 14 and Yoshida.

imo a group of 4 of the best players in the game clearing the first dungeon of an expac without a healer is honestly nothing to note. I hope that the devs see that and do something more for healers, what ever that could be, its not like healers have ever been consistent in their feedback for the game.

I'm a WHM, have been since Legacy, will be in Dawntrail. I can understand the frustration. I felt it when half of my kit was transferred into role actions in trade for what was, at the time, the worst job gauge in the game, but if THAT didn't get me to quit healing, this won't.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

imo a group of 4 of the best players in the game clearing the first dungeon of an expac without a healer is honestly nothing to note. I hope that the devs see that and do something more for healers, what ever that could be, its not like healers have ever been consistent in their feedback for the game.

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Kind of hard to believe when those 4 best players are clicking their abilities with a mouse (not an MMO mouse) and on video it was shown one stood in continuous damage and greeted as much as possible and the streamer was missing buttons from the Hotbar, pulled the action menu up mid-fight and slowly placed the button he was missing (did that 2 times) while also commenting on how the dungeon was a joke and he wouldn't be able to do that if it was challenging.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Kind of hard to believe when those 4 best players are clicking their abilities with a mouse (not an MMO mouse)

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Clicking actions has never actually been an issue, unless you keep your hotbars unlocked for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

and on video it was shown one stood in continuous damage and greeted as much as possible and the streamer was missing buttons from the Hotbar, pulled the action menu up mid-fight and slowly placed the button he was missing (did that 2 times) while also commenting on how the dungeon was a joke and he wouldn't be able to do that if it was challenging.

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Welcome to FFXIV Dungeons, they haven't been actually challenging since Heavensward. Even watching the video, there was only 1 interesting mechanic in the entire dungeon.



Honestly, I still expect the average WAR to fumble their infinite HP combo more often then they get it right..

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Originally Posted by Rozeee

On one of the bosses Xeno quite literally dragged off nascent flash from his menu, did AoE rotation on single target and the ninja got hit 4 times by avoidable AoE without dying. Skill level isn't an excuse. Citing expert dungeons as being 'hard' really makes me question your credibility.

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Did I ever say Expert dungeons were hard? No. I did not. I said it would be 'harder' as in, more difficult then current content. That does not imply HARD. A marshmallow is harder then water, but it's still not hard. (Hint, the ninja did die a couple times, as did the dragoon, but they had a red mage.) The average player as a tank will not throw their heals on the other players, they half the time can't even read their tooltip to know they even CAN. Hell half of them don't even use it on THEMSELVES. I swear most of the playerbase in this game can't read.

This forum is total cancer. I seriously hope they do NOT ever look at this place. This is seriously one of the most toxic places I have ever had the misfortune of coming across.

Group of sync'd lvl 100's in the expansions first dungeon nothing shocking about how they didnt need a healer. If it was a actual lvl 100 dungeon then that would be something to worry about but until that happens..not worrying.

It's not like the level 100 dungeons actually requiring a healer is going to make them more engaging.

It feels pretty silly in hindsight that ARR arguably had the best dungeon design in terms of both spicing up the trash segments and bosses having mechanics that involved more then just not standing in AoE telegraphs.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Group of sync'd lvl 100's in the expansions first dungeon nothing shocking about how they didnt need a healer. If it was a actual lvl 100 dungeon then that would be something to worry about but until that happens..not worrying.

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Synced zot at 90 is harder than any of the 90 dungeons

Not sure how suddenly only the 100 dungeons are going to be hard

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Group of sync'd lvl 100's in the expansions first dungeon nothing shocking about how they didnt need a healer. If it was a actual lvl 100 dungeon then that would be something to worry about but until that happens..not worrying.

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If they're synced they're not lvl 100 you cannot be serious

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Originally Posted by justausername

Did I ever say Expert dungeons were hard? No. I did not. I said it would be 'harder' as in, more difficult then current content. That does not imply HARD. A marshmallow is harder then water, but it's still not hard. (Hint, the ninja did die a couple times, as did the dragoon, but they had a red mage.) The average player as a tank will not throw their heals on the other players, they half the time can't even read their tooltip to know they even CAN. Hell half of them don't even use it on THEMSELVES. I swear most of the playerbase in this game can't read.

This forum is total cancer. I seriously hope they do NOT ever look at this place. This is seriously one of the most toxic places I have ever had the misfortune of coming across.

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I apologize for misunderstanding your post, but I don't intend to engage in this vitriol any further. I wouldn't mind if we were to argue regarding your actual point, but you calling this place 'total cancer' and 'toxic' while simultaneously calling most of the player base illiterate is again, making me question your credibility.

Lv100? Y’all do realize the players in that video is literally at lv92 with a synced symbol, correct? Lmao

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Synced zot at 90 is harder than any of the 90 dungeons

Not sure how suddenly only the 100 dungeons are going to be hard

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Last couple of expansions the first dungeon in the expansion has been the hardest. Kind of worried that trend will just continue on in DT.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Lv100? Y’all do realize the players in that video is literally at lv92 with a synced symbol, correct? Lmao

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Yep, lvl 100's sync down to 92 in full AF trashing the first dungeon. And people having a melt down over it like they should be getting wrecked or something..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Yep, lvl 100's sync down to 92 in full AF trashing the first dungeon. And people having a melt down over it like they should be getting wrecked or something..

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The difference between what we are entering DT with and DT’s AF gear is 30 ilvl’s

Factoring in the fact that you are…..you know…..synced at most these people have 1-2% more health/damage than what we will have entering this dungeon

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

>Just wait until skill showcase, it's not going to be that bad

>Just wait until live letter explanation, it's not going to be that bad

>Just wait until tooltips release, it's not going to be that bad

>Just wait until early access, it's not going to be that bad [YOU ARE HERE]

>Just wait until savage balance patch, it's not going to be that bad

>Just wait until next expansion's skill showcase, it's surely going to be better

>Repeat from start

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...and it never was that bad. All the doomposting was overexaggerated and things were fine actually.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The difference between what we are entering DT with and DT’s AF gear is 30 ilvl’s

Factoring in the fact that you are…..you know…..synced at most these people have 1-2% more health/damage than what we will have entering this dungeon

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Like that actually matters with this games sync system.

I get people are acting like this doesn't matter, but I feel like that attitude is part of the problem.

This is just how the game is for healers all the time, especially if you're not going into high end content, this isn't a good thing.

Who would have thought that encounter design would not have changed at all? So shocking, would have never expected this from the game notorious for having the same exact content repackaged every expansion with different cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Like that actually matters with this games sync system.

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Aren’t you the one arguing that the tank being able to do this is caused by ridiculous sync and not because tanks are overpowered

I’m telling that sync down bonus is not playing into this

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Yep, lvl 100's sync down to 92 in full AF trashing the first dungeon. And people having a melt down over it like they should be getting wrecked or something..

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For the record, first dungeon of the expansion syncs lower, than the previous expansion cap. And it should drop ilvl 650 gear or some such.
So, it's literally irrelevant if they are using level 100 synced gear, since full (soon to be poetics) 660 gear already puts you way above the synced down level.
And both Hominster Switch and Tower of Zot are actually one of the hardest dungeons in their respective expansions

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Who would have thought that encounter design would not have changed at all? So shocking, would have never expected this from the game notorious for having the same exact content repackaged every expansion with different cutscenes.

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There was a vain hope after they claimed they wanted to make the gameplay more engaging at the PAX media tour.

Though they've also had a history of not living up their promises, so...

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

And you're still here...5 YEARS later, but sure, blame the people "simping" for ff 14 and Yoshida.

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Yes because healers were actually a fun role back in the day. Kinda ironic if you think what they are now. Imagine the most fun you had playing a role and they completely burn it to the ground. It’s kinda funny that wow respects healer main more since it’s inception until even today then FF 14 that dumbs down the role

And ofc I’m still here I don’t play healer as a main role anymore xD. Doesn’t mean I can’t see and play even myself how utterly brain rotting this role is.


Also your post screams “pls don’t bully the multi million dollar company anymore”. Yoshi p and his crew back then even said to never insult your player base and listen to feedback. Well we can see they don’t and double down on stupid ideas.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

...and it never was that bad. All the doomposting was overexaggerated and things were fine actually.

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That’s a fukking lie and we both know it. Healer since shadowbringer are the most brain rotting role full stop. I was a week 1 healer player and I had to swap my keyboard 2 times because my 1 key was breaking after pressing that butting for more then 5000 times in a week. But yes pls tell the healer veterans how good the game was back in shadowbringer xD…….. any healer main that is decent and not completely brain rotten from playing this job will tell you it’s the most boring unrewarding role to get better. Any other role gets interesting rotations and other fun stuff while healers press 1 around 50 times more.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Yep, lvl 100's sync down to 92 in full AF trashing the first dungeon. And people having a melt down over it like they should be getting wrecked or something..

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You can’t be real or ? You effectively told a wrong fact when you could actually fact check this more then easy by simple queuing holminster or tower of zot and see how hard these dungeons hit people in big pulls. I can tell you that I actually use all ogcds as healer and still have to gcd heal in these dungeons in a decent number of instances. The first dungeon of a addon normally beats the living hell out of people because of scaling and again it doesn’t matter if you are 100 with gear you still get synced.

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Originally Posted by justausername

Did I ever say Expert dungeons were hard? No. I did not. I said it would be 'harder' as in, more difficult then current content. That does not imply HARD. A marshmallow is harder then water, but it's still not hard. (Hint, the ninja did die a couple times, as did the dragoon, but they had a red mage.) The average player as a tank will not throw their heals on the other players, they half the time can't even read their tooltip to know they even CAN. Hell half of them don't even use it on THEMSELVES. I swear most of the playerbase in this game can't read.

This forum is total cancer. I seriously hope they do NOT ever look at this place. This is seriously one of the most toxic places I have ever had the misfortune of coming across.

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Oh no some one used facts and evidence from the video and told me how bad healers current state is and was since 5 years so they are toxic and hurt my special snowflake attitude.

Yes a decent part of the player base can’t read and ? Why does everything has to be dumbed down and insult player intelligence. The fact that they made it through the 1 dungeons in an expansion with no healer while playing like monkeys should reality check you pretty badly. Imagine they had played decently then the rdm was even not needed in this situation rezzing them.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

You can’t be real or ? You effectively told a wrong fact when you could actually fact check this more then easy by simple queuing holminster or tower of zot and see how hard these dungeons hit people in big pulls. I can tell you that I actually use all ogcds as healer and still have to gcd heal in these dungeons in a decent number of instances. The first dungeon of a addon normally beats the living hell out of people because of scaling and again it doesn’t matter if you are 100 with gear you still get synced.

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Ran holminster for giggles ya, reminded me why I dont remember it. Same crap I have seen mutilple times. 1 or 2 hard hitting mobs pulled into a large pack smaller ones....gets old fast. Only one trash has ever impressed me enough to be remembered. Final pack in Hells lid before the last boss. Watched it quite few times one shot a tank and too this day nothing has matched it. Too me every trash pack since first dungeon or last dungeon is a watered down wannabe of that trash pack.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

There was a vain hope after they claimed they wanted to make the gameplay more engaging at the PAX media tour.

Though they've also had a history of not living up their promises, so...

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You mean like how they told us they're gonna be increasing incoming party damage, and healers are totally gonna have to heal more, for two expansions now?
Imagine my shock.

At this point I'm getting the feeling that when they say "We're increasing the damage enemies deal." they mean "Level 100 mobs are going to deal more damage than level 90 mobs."
Yeah, I could've figured that one out on my own.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Ran holminster for giggles ya, reminded me why I dont remember it. Same crap I have seen mutilple times. 1 or 2 hard hitting mobs pulled into a large pack smaller ones....gets old fast. Only one trash has ever impressed me enough to be remembered. Final pack in Hells lid before the last boss. Watched it quite few times one shot a tank and too this day nothing has matched it. Too me every trash pack since first dungeon or last dungeon is a watered down wannabe of that trash pack.

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The serpents at the end of Hell's Lid have an untelegraphed cleave buster, it's the only "recent" dungeon I can remember that actually has the enemies do more than auto attack and occasionally do a laughable AoE spell with a 10 second cast time.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

The serpents at the end of Hell's Lid have an untelegraphed cleave buster, it's the only "recent" dungeon I can remember that actually has the enemies do more than auto attack and occasionally do a laughable AoE spell with a 10 second cast time.

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Hell's Lid was also what, 2017? So one pack in one dungeon in the last half of the game's post-Tanaka lifespan.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Ran holminster for giggles ya, reminded me why I dont remember it. Same crap I have seen mutilple times. 1 or 2 hard hitting mobs pulled into a large pack smaller ones....gets old fast. Only one trash has ever impressed me enough to be remembered. Final pack in Hells lid before the last boss. Watched it quite few times one shot a tank and too this day nothing has matched it. Too me every trash pack since first dungeon or last dungeon is a watered down wannabe of that trash pack.

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Just because me and my friends were bored, we did holminster with 3 dps and a tank and the normal trash packs did beat the snoot out of my war tank friend and he really had to use all his tools and the pack before the 2 boss almost wiped us because he didnt had holm back up, The trash doesnt do very much but they hit like trucks at least so you feel some enjoyment as a healer player when the tank player isnt a god or not war. But seeing dawntrail while they play like derps and still not strugfgle one bit does tell that the max lvl dungeons will be even more boring.

I didn't hear any Scholar mains complaining about Expedient getting a 10 second nerf on the movement part, even though it really isn't that bad how it was originally.

Yet anyone that suggest Warrior needs some nerfs, Warrior mains completely lose their minds.

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Originally Posted by DarkTonyBerry

I didn't hear any Scholar mains complaining about Expedient getting a 10 second nerf on the movement part, even though it really isn't that bad how it was originally.

Yet anyone that suggest Warrior needs some nerfs, Warrior mains completely lose their minds.

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Well, seeing how Warriors put themselves on the winners pedistal when it comes to tanks, ofc they don't wanna get nerfed so they get on the same level as the other "lesser" tanks.

Honestly part of me isn’t even that surprised by this, as bad as it is. I truly long for the days healers in ffxiv get to be an actual role and not just ‘one-button-dps-with-healing-cool-down’, but frankly it doesn’t surprise me to see that we’ll be waiting yet another expansion before they can actually be a fun role to play.

I really hope this is just some accidental fluke with the media build and not an indicator of how Dawntrail dungeon gameplay will generally be. Making any role redundant in a ‘role-based’ game is a pretty glaring error in my opinion. I really hope we don’t up back here ( again ) in 8.0, but based on their track history I’d start getting the posts ready lol

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Originally Posted by DarkTonyBerry

I didn't hear any Scholar mains complaining about Expedient getting a 10 second nerf on the movement part, even though it really isn't that bad how it was originally.

Yet anyone that suggest Warrior needs some nerfs, Warrior mains completely lose their minds.

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Probably because those are two totally unrelated abilities. When warrior nerfs get suggested, they're usually in regards to its ability to keep itself alive via hp restoration. I would say this is nowhere near the same as "being able to run fast for an extra 10 seconds," but even then as someone who plays every job and does have warrior leveled specifically for dungeoning with randos, I could see why it should've been nerfed. I was shocked to see the devs double down. It was honestly strange to me.
And then you just have the sad, sad case of SCH players simply being used to disappointment. Like a beaten dog, they just accept it. As a former AST main, I understand where they are mentally, as a community. They're probably glad they got to keep the skill at all. It's sad.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Once again my genuine hope for DT is anyone who is even 10% competent at healer simply abandons healer and forces these god tanks and DPS who support the god tanks to wait in 30 minute queues to get cure 1 spammers so the entire trinity can burn down around them

The absolute disrespect to the healer role is beyond a joke at this point and if you still support the tank design in modern 14 I hope you suffer with crap queues the entire expansion

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I didn't read all that but you can keep pressing cure buddy

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Originally Posted by Battler-Ushiromiya

I didn't read all that but you can keep pressing cure buddy

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The gold medal for mental gymnastics must weigh heavily on your neck considering I genuinely cannot imagine how you came to that conclusion

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Probably because those are two totally unrelated abilities. When warrior nerfs get suggested, they're usually in regards to its ability to keep itself alive via hp restoration. I would say this is nowhere near the same as "being able to run fast for an extra 10 seconds," but even then as someone who plays every job and does have warrior leveled specifically for dungeoning with randos, I could see why it should've been nerfed. I was shocked to see the devs double down. It was honestly strange to me.
And then you just have the sad, sad case of SCH players simply being used to disappointment. Like a beaten dog, they just accept it. As a former AST main, I understand where they are mentally, as a community. They're probably glad they got to keep the skill at all. It's sad.

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Yeah they are different, expedient was much less egregious in how it messes up the games balance than BW/SIO/holmgang is but look which skill got nerfed

Do people want heals to do less healing and enemies to do constant raid damage so you must be constantly casting healing spells or someone dies. Basically you don't have time to hit any dps buttons because you must be hitting healing buttons, that is how like wow works. When you compare something like ff14 to other mmos, the heal potency of what healing spells do are so much higher than other games and incoming damage is far less. They would have to make a big change to the battle system to allow for more healing to happen.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Do people want heals to do less healing and enemies to do constant raid damage so you must be constantly casting healing spells or someone dies.

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Healers want something to do. As it stands, we're not really doing much if any healing unless people are suicidal and when we do need to heal normally it's entirely scripted. We're not really doing much for damage either, we have 1 spell to attack directly, 1 dot, and maybe one CD nuke.

Just make Healers build up most of their Heals by doing DPS things and you will have nice cyclical gameplay that encourages people to play better.