Ifrit Extreme....What's Different?

well this is good news then

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Message from Accelerator Scarlet who cleared Relic Reborn quest



He's talking about hamlet items :)

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Not really hard relics to obtain then. If a person has one they're going to have all of them due it not being that hard outside of Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Not really hard relics to obtain then. If a person has one they're going to have all of them due it not being that hard outside of Ifrit.

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exactly, I can see obtaining all relics with a preset 8 man group in 7 weeks after obtaining seals.

really happy that it came from these guys they are all nice and tbh beasty

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Not really hard relics to obtain then. If a person has one they're going to have all of them due it not being that hard outside of Ifrit.

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Then... Please, humor a person who can't in his mind fathom how this is 'not hard' anywhere at all...
What would you consider a 'hard' quest?

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Originally Posted by Req

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifM_v...layer_embedded

Heres the jp people that have their relics killing it. Notice that they incapped ifrits horns. Maybe this has something to do with it?

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*lost word*
*slow clap*

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Originally Posted by Skies

Then... Please, humor a person who can't in his mind fathom how this is 'not hard' anywhere at all...
What would you consider a 'hard' quest?

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Final Fantasy XI Mythic weapons. For a weapon that is considered rare it should not be obtainable in less then a week. A skilled group such as the one who took down Ifrit will probably do that in even less time.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Final Fantasy XI Mythic weapons.

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Erp... I never played XI, mind expanding?

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Originally Posted by Skies

Then... Please, humor a person who can't in his mind fathom how this is 'not hard' anywhere at all...
What would you consider a 'hard' quest?

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I think he/she meant time consuming. The quest really isn't time consuming at all if you have the skill to beat the FNM and Ifrit and Garuda.

Aha, I see.
Okay, I can give her that point. Personally I can't stand an excessively time-consuming quest, I mean if it is this one very long chain of events, that's perfectly cool but if it say, involves grinding a drop that comes by in tiny quantities or other such time sinks, that's basically going to get me to ignore that quest.

That said, this quest seriously sounds prodigiously long in my opinion. Mostly because it's not really the kind of quest you're going to be doing more than once (and if you do, by that time it's probably good that it's not as long as it was before) so 'more experience' only goes so far.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Ifrit Hard: 2 WHM

Ifrit Extreme: 1 WHM

... lol

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??? who uses 2 WHM on any fight....

We used 1 WHM for normal Ifrit when you still used LNC to kill him (along with all CC and AV bosses etc)

2 WHM has been overkill for every boss they;ve added in 14 so far

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Not really hard relics to obtain then. If a person has one they're going to have all of them due it not being that hard outside of Ifrit.

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Exactly, without redoing Hamlet 1 relic (in a fairly hardcore LS) should take about 2 days per relic assuming a kill rate of near 100% on Ifrit Extreme which actually doesn't look that difficult to me.

We'll see how well people pay attention during the fight tho ._.

Ifrit looks hard for people who don't know how to do things other than stand there and spank the NM. :p

The fight is pretty interesting from the looks of that video. A shame it's not available to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Exactly, without redoing Hamlet 1 relic (in a fairly hardcore LS) should take about 2 days per relic assuming a kill rate of near 100% on Ifrit Extreme which actually doesn't look that difficult to me.

We'll see how well people pay attention during the fight tho ._.

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That fight... Seems like it requires flawless execution, even more than the 17m speedruns. I don't think you can ever count on a 'near 100% kill rate' on it.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

??? who uses 2 WHM on any fight....

We used 1 WHM for normal Ifrit when you still used LNC to kill him (along with all CC and AV bosses etc)

2 WHM has been overkill for every boss they;ve added in 14 so far

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For pickups or those with less experience 2 WHMs is still preferable. Safe Win > Killing it 30 seconds faster. Ifrit can be risky if your only WHM is constantly dodging eruptions.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

??? who uses 2 WHM on any fight....

We used 1 WHM for normal Ifrit when you still used LNC to kill him (along with all CC and AV bosses etc)

2 WHM has been overkill for every boss they;ve added in 14 so far

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Havent you heard? no whitemages is the new one white mage.

Gerolt suggests you can do Garuda and Ifrit in either order, but there's no dialogue box for Bowl of Embers (Extreme) at Ifrit's aether site. I even cleared Ifrit (Hard) again to be sure. Still no prompt.

Do I need to whack Garuda first, or what?

Extreme ifrit is at another aether check your map its to the south.

That was extremely helpful. Thank you.

Dear Melee,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVEiHcHTFZU

Enjoy

Best Regard
Blm/Thm

Ha HA thats pretty epic :)

Having just stayed up late trying to help a sloppy team beat Ifrit (Hard), I really appreciate the precision and discipline demonstrated in these Ifrit (Extreme) videos, especially how they kept exactly to their plan even when Ifrit was quite low. Play smart; play safe!

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Originally Posted by REDace0

Having just stayed up late trying to help a sloppy team beat Ifrit (Hard), I really appreciate the precision and discipline demonstrated in these Ifrit (Extreme) videos, especially how they kept exactly to their plan even when Ifrit was quite low. Play smart; play safe!

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And realize you don't need to stack THM/BLMs! I think the reason a lot of Ifrit (Hard) fights are sloppy is because people refuse to listen or jump on the "omg latency will kill us anyway so why even bother trying to dodge?" bandwagon. While true taking new players into it can cause death, no one perfected the fight their time either, but some people just refuse to listen let alone learn anything because of reading players bad at dodging blaming latency.

So the main difference between Ifrit Hard and Ifrit Extreme? Only smart people will succeed honestly.

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Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

Dear Melee,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVEiHcHTFZU

Enjoy

Best Regard
Blm/Thm

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LOL chest reward 1 totem, I guess that's good for helpers without Ifrit weapon or to get company seals out from it.

Same guys as above video showing how to clear the nails http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddpR5cHCkc (didn't win this one but other vid didn't show so they linked this one also)

For comboing purposes, which side is the "front" of the nails? Are they all facing the center of the arena?

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

For comboing purposes, which side is the "front" of the nails? Are they all facing the center of the arena?

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fot the nails in ifrit extreme, you can do combo from any side of nail. confirmed

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Originally Posted by Luxanna

fot the nails in ifrit extreme, you can do combo from any side of nail. confirmed

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What? :confused: Really? :eek:

Really Really? :D


/tears of joy

Ifrit EXTREME battle royal= You normally explore a volcano and battle mobs for keys and coffers... while farming keys for coffers and obtaining more keys, you'll be able to spam the lock of a chamber (Ifrits Chamber) and battle the beast personally and with the Death Wish of a full wipe.

The good news is, while farming, you find many drops, weapons, armor and treasures that would help you fight Shiva (who live in a glacier across town)!

The bad news is, the only way to exit the dungeon is to enter the battle for the win/ death cut scene.

The ugly news: Ifrit damages your gear to 0%(so you'll have work on your hands repairing them afterwards). Start shelling out gil for those crafters adventurers!(Maybe good news for the crafters!) ;)

Even if the lag doesn't make it impossible for people in EU and NA to win, do you guys really think it's all right that what requires very fast reflexes for us, would require just average reflexes for a japanese player to pull off?

I've called for local servers for a long time and usually the peanut gallery chimes in calling me a racist xenophobe that's attempting to destroy our global community. Either way however, the slight latency isn't the be all end all of this fight, never has been.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Even if the lag doesn't make it impossible for people in EU and NA to win, do you guys really think it's all right that what requires very fast reflexes for us, would require just average reflexes for a japanese player to pull off?

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Latency will have zero impact on it. It's all in your ability to time and dodge.

Will it? Why is that?

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Originally Posted by Madruk

the peanut gallery chimes in calling me a racist xenophobe that's attempting to destroy our global community

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GTFO BIGOT

No really, I understand how you feel completely :)

There are 3 issues that cause the lag people are complaining about.
1. (The biggest). The performance of your computer and your local internet.
a. Comcast and other cable providers I have used in the past have a horrendous ping time. Do a test and don't just look at your speed look at the ping for both up and down.
b. System performance, many people including myself (until recently) use underpowered or low memory systems. If you are running a core 2 duo or lower then you are borderline depending on your memory resources you connection (processor handles load from the game as well as load from the network and other resources you are using. Memory has a huge affect on this game. If you operate on a 32-bit OS (you are already reducing your performance on this game even with a nice video card), or you are using 4GB or less then then there will be Virtual memory used which will cause the game and network to run even slower. Much of the lag people experience (not all) is caused by lack of ram. Once I upgrade to 8GB it was like night and day, yet that was all I changed.
c. Server lag latency, this would be lowest on the lag issue, however unlike most games out there (WOW, FFXI, etc). Although having local stations would reduce this, in most cases is not the issue. While everything is server side, most of the time spent is dealing with the local connection to the network from the users system, or the hardware they are using.

A. Obviously you cannot do anything about in most areas in the USA.
B. This is probably the area that affects most people. There are numerous people running 32 bit OS which guarantees that you cannot fully address all of the memory available and your system memory is limited to ~3 GB.


As far as local servers, that does not necessarily mean region locked server. FFXI used regional servers, however they all synced to the California and Japanese servers (hence how you saw people from all regions).

I suspect it will be done the same way as it was done with FFXI, the main difference being that many actions are instanced or server side.

2.0 using fewer resources and possibly being less server side may resolve these issues for those with low end systems.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Will it? Why is that?

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Because it's always been that way. The most persistent myth of all is that somehow the JP players have no latency. Its a lie, please stop believing it. I have watched plenty of JP videos, and their bosses have that same weird latency that ours do. It has everything to do with how the game is designed, not ping times. For example, the game does a damage check immediately after a command entry. This is not synced to skill animations, so oftentimes the server will have you damaged well before you even see the skill animating. This is the same across ALL regions and has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with pings. Its just a crappy server that is designed to do things in an archaic fashion. If you want to test this out, watch a few JP Garuda runs. You'll see players coming out from behind the rocks before Garuda even does her AOE animation. Why? Because they know that the game does the damage check beforehand. As a result, it all just comes down to timing. If you know when the damage check is, you won't get pwned. Some ppl have suggested using the battle log, but I haven't tried that myself. The point is that latency was never the problem, it was just a convenient excuse used by bad players to cover up the fact that they were sucking.

Whats sad is that everyone ended up believing it, propagating the silly rumors that "JP has an advantage". They never did, they just learned how to play around the odd design. It only has the appearance of being faster, when in actuality, its not. At least not in any practical sense where it would actually make an impact.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

The most persistent myth of all is that somehow the JP players have no latency.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

Sorry, but you are mentally ignoring facts.
Its pure physics that you HAVE TO wait for answer of the servers and the game design supports server side calculations which result in double delay until you get confirmation. The Problem is not only reaction with pressing keys (macro using helps to trick the server) but also positions and damage calculation!

Latency is a problem and saying otherwise is just a lie. Even SE confirmed this fact and they promised with 2.0 a more client based system which reduces latency because less server questions and synchronisation needed.

Have you ever tried loading big files once over LAN, WAN, Countries, worldwide... Selfexplained, you have to wait longer!

In Summary:
JP have ~ 10-30ms
US have ~ 200-250ms
EU have ~ 250-300ms

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

Sorry, but you are mentally ignoring facts.
Its pure physics that you HAVE TO wait for answer of the servers and the game design supports server side calculations which result in double delay until you get confirmation. The Problem is not only reaction with pressing keys (macro using helps to trick the server) but also positions and damage calculation!

Latency is a problem and saying otherwise is just a lie. Even SE confirmed this fact and they promised with 2.0 a more client based system which reduces latency because less server questions and synchronisation needed.

Have you ever tried loading big files once over LAN, WAN, Countries, worldwide... Selfexplained, you have to wait longer!

In Summary:
JP have ~ 10-30ms
US have ~ 200-250ms
EU have ~ 250-300ms

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yeah, gona have a hard time convinceing the elitiest in this game that belive otherwise. But I guess if you think your shit smells like roses you wouldnt be inclined to admit to anything other then, you rule and the rest of the world are noobs blaming some reasonable difficulties on resonable causes and not owning up to the fact that they are not as awsome as you lol. and when I say "you" I am referring to the elitiest. Just to clear things up. Latiency is one of those outrageously obvoius issues its kinda impossable to claim it dosent exist. Personally I am wowed by the fact that people actually think it dose not exist... /sigh

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Because it's always been that way. The most persistent myth of all is that somehow the JP players have no latency. Its a lie, please stop believing it. I have watched plenty of JP videos, and their bosses have that same weird latency that ours do. It has everything to do with how the game is designed, not ping times. For example, the game does a damage check immediately after a command entry. This is not synced to skill animations, so oftentimes the server will have you damaged well before you even see the skill animating. This is the same across ALL regions and has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with pings. Its just a crappy server that is designed to do things in an archaic fashion. If you want to test this out, watch a few JP Garuda runs. You'll see players coming out from behind the rocks before Garuda even does her AOE animation. Why? Because they know that the game does the damage check beforehand. As a result, it all just comes down to timing. If you know when the damage check is, you won't get pwned. Some ppl have suggested using the battle log, but I haven't tried that myself. The point is that latency was never the problem, it was just a convenient excuse used by bad players to cover up the fact that they were sucking.

Whats sad is that everyone ended up believing it, propagating the silly rumors that "JP has an advantage". They never did, they just learned how to play around the odd design. It only has the appearance of being faster, when in actuality, its not. At least not in any practical sense where it would actually make an impact.

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No, your right, the lag in those JP videos couldnt possably be because JP players also somtimes play with less then awsome PCs, as all JP players are uber awsome and have uber awsome PCs, this can not possably be a "myth" as everything JP is automaticly AWSOME!!!. (sarcasm)

Second note, for the people who thumbs uped that post, I feel like you should be scoulded like when a dog pisses on the floor, not carpet, its not that bad. More like a dog pissing on tile. Its forgiveable but an anoyance becuase now someone has to come behind you and clean up your mess and correct you, because you should know better.... bad thumbs up, very bad thumbs up.

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Dear all

We have successfully acquired a sizable amount of information concerning the network latency (lag) found to mainly occur during the Ifrit Battle thanks to all the feedback contributed by everyone up until today.
This will prove most helpful and we wish to thank you all for your valuable help.

Our development team is currently constructing a play environment that replicates the one everyone else using in order to investigate and test this ongoing issue.

We will be sure to inform everyone as soon as we discover any useful information.
For now however, we won't require any further feedback about tracert data.

Once again we would like to express our sincere thanks to everyone for their kind assistance.

Please note that we are not closing the thread so please feel free to continue posting about any lag you encounter during the Ifrit Battle, or indeed any other relevant concerns you would like to inform us about.

Thank you for your continuing support.

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just thought i would bring that into the convo aswell :)